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Well that pretty much puts that argument to rest.


As for stormboyz vs kommandos.. what's the point of stormboyz now?

I guess where the index is banned Stormboyz are still relevant obj grabber?

 Emicrania wrote:

Well that pretty much puts that argument to rest.


As for stormboyz vs kommandos.. what's the point of stormboyz now?

I guess where the index is banned Stormboyz are still relevant obj grabber?

Asides from the free burnas, kommandos still just seem stronger for a point less. There's no reason not to deploy both kommandos and stormboyz in reserves, so the stormboyz' mobility is negated, and kommandos are more durable+hit harder in cover. Since the changes to flying assault units no longer ignoring vertical movement in charges I think kommandos are maybe our best bet for tying up ruinscampers

I just don't see the need for stormboyz, I have 20 of them as they're easily my favourite infantry models from gw period. Only case I see using them is in a big blob of 30 to add more oomph to a kommando deepstrike.

I would like burnas to be cheaper, they are the coolest miniatures, feth it

 Sluggaloo wrote:
Asides from the free burnas, kommandos still just seem stronger for a point less. There's no reason not to deploy both kommandos and stormboyz in reserves, so the stormboyz' mobility is negated, and kommandos are more durable+hit harder in cover. Since the changes to flying assault units no longer ignoring vertical movement in charges I think kommandos are maybe our best bet for tying up ruinscampers

I just don't see the need for stormboyz, I have 20 of them as they're easily my favourite infantry models from gw period. Only case I see using them is in a big blob of 30 to add more oomph to a kommando deepstrike.

T1 charge, more likely T2 charge for stormboyz deployed nromally.

Bigdoza wrote:
Has anyone tried running:

Bad Moonz Big Mek on Warbike (Index)
2x Kombi-Skorcha, Da GobShot Blunderbuss.


4 D6 Str 5, -1 autohits, plus 6 shots from bike and 2 shoota shots with -1bs.


115

How are you getting two kombi-skorchas?

tneva82 wrote:

 Sluggaloo wrote:
Asides from the free burnas, kommandos still just seem stronger for a point less. There's no reason not to deploy both kommandos and stormboyz in reserves, so the stormboyz' mobility is negated, and kommandos are more durable+hit harder in cover. Since the changes to flying assault units no longer ignoring vertical movement in charges I think kommandos are maybe our best bet for tying up ruinscampers

I just don't see the need for stormboyz, I have 20 of them as they're easily my favourite infantry models from gw period. Only case I see using them is in a big blob of 30 to add more oomph to a kommando deepstrike.

T1 charge, more likely T2 charge for stormboyz deployed nromally.

And then you're risking them getting gunned off the board before they do anything. You have a CP-Free in-built deepstrike which makes them invulnerable to anything other than auspex-scan style stratagems.

But then again there's value in getting them in face on T1. Like clearing up drop zones for main stuff.

And they might risk being blasted but if they don't they have essentially 100% quaranteed charge T2 unlike with deep strike.

 Jidmah wrote:

Bigdoza wrote:
Has anyone tried running:

Bad Moonz Big Mek on Warbike (Index)
2x Kombi-Skorcha, Da GobShot Blunderbuss.


4 D6 Str 5, -1 autohits, plus 6 shots from bike and 2 shoota shots with -1bs.


115

How are you getting two kombi-skorchas?

index big mek may take 2 from the souped-up weapons list. So 2 KMBs or 2 Kombi-scorchas if he wants (cant take a KFF tho).

I actually ran my arch-arsonist troll build a few days ago, and did fairly well. The concept was "only weapons that have some auto-hitting capabilities unless I'm forced to take one on the model that doesn't". I think the official count was 3 boomsticks on the deffkilla, 2 dakkaguns and 2 shoota halfs of the combi scorchas on each big mek's bike, and 3 rivet cannons/3 grot blastas on the 3 KBBs. Otherwise it was all auto-hit.

I think the deffkilla with the buzzbomb relic is better, because he's actually a melee threat after he clears a screen away, and the big mek is just an unarmed nob.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
But then again there's value in getting them in face on T1. Like clearing up drop zones for main stuff.

And they might risk being blasted but if they don't they have essentially 100% quaranteed charge T2 unlike with deep strike.

por que no los dos? 15 of each and you're a third of the way to an evil sunz brigade.

Is a purely footslogging army viable? I am playing against a really good tournie player tmo who will likely be running imperial soup with the Castellan, loyal 32 and probbaly basilisks or leman Punishers. 2000 pts

I was going for
Goff Battalion
2 Weirdboyz
1x 30 Boyz with nob
1x 20 Boyz with nob
1x 15 Boyz with nob
1x 10 MANZ (1 with killsaws)
1 x 15 Stormboyz with PK Nob
Painboy

Freebooter Vanguard
Badrukk
Big Mek KFF
1 x 5 Flashgitz
1 x 5 Flashgitz
1 x 5 Lootas
1 x 6 tankbustas
1 x Grot Mega tank with 7 rokkits
1 x 10 Grots
1 x Painboy

I will be making the warlord Weirdboy a Warphead with da jump and warpath with the lucky Stikk. Not sure if the other weird boy should have da krunch or fists. Fists on a Weirdboy takes him upto strength 9

Should I also put the MANZ or 30 man blob on the tellyporta. The idea being to warpath and jump the other unit.

 Elfric wrote:
Is a purely footslogging army viable? I am playing against a really good tournie player tmo who will likely be running imperial soup with the Castellan, loyal 32 and probbaly basilisks or leman Punishers. 2000 pts

I was going for
Goff Battalion
2 Weirdboyz
1x 30 Boyz with nob
1x 20 Boyz with nob
1x 15 Boyz with nob
1x 10 MANZ (1 with killsaws)
1 x 15 Stormboyz with PK Nob
Painboy

Freebooter Vanguard
Badrukk
Big Mek KFF
1 x 5 Flashgitz
1 x 5 Flashgitz
1 x 5 Lootas
1 x 6 tankbustas
1 x Grot Mega tank with 7 rokkits
1 x 10 Grots
1 x Painboy

I will be making the warlord Weirdboy a Warphead with da jump and warpath with the lucky Stikk. Not sure if the other weird boy should have da krunch or fists. Fists on a Weirdboy takes him upto strength 9

Should I also put the MANZ or 30 man blob on the tellyporta. The idea being to warpath and jump the other unit.

I don't think you're going to get very far with that against a competitive imperial soup list.

If you asked me to set up the best possible list with as much of what you've set up here as I can use, I'd go for:

Snakebite Battalion
1 weirdboy
1 warboss
10x Gretchins
1x25 boyz with nob
1x10 boyz with nob
Grot Mega Tank with Rokkits
5x tankbustas

Evil Sunz Battalion
Big Mek KFF
Weirdboy
2x10 gretchins
30x boyz
10x Manz tellyporta'd
15x stormboyz

Fill the rest with more snakebite boyz, like just more and more and more snakebites boyz. Use the 18" kff stratagem if you can't cover the boyz for the first couple turns.

Yeah gretchin are compulsory for tides lists - best defence for a footslogging list (especially for ranged specialists like Flashgits, tankbustas, lootas etc). Grot-shielding Boyz is slightly less effective, as you'll want the Boyz to eventually overtake the grots.

 Sluggaloo wrote:
Yeah gretchin are compulsory for tides lists - best defence for a footslogging list (especially for ranged specialists like Flashgits, tankbustas, lootas etc). Grot-shielding Boyz is slightly less effective, as you'll want the Boyz to eventually overtake the grots.

If you're footslogging boyz and using grot shields you can absolutely get those gretchins killed before the boyz hit. I'd definitely take 10 gretchin in front of my boyz if I knew I was facing a castellan - perfect for tanking that shot from Carl's Wrath.

 Sluggaloo wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Sluggaloo wrote:
Asides from the free burnas, kommandos still just seem stronger for a point less. There's no reason not to deploy both kommandos and stormboyz in reserves, so the stormboyz' mobility is negated, and kommandos are more durable+hit harder in cover. Since the changes to flying assault units no longer ignoring vertical movement in charges I think kommandos are maybe our best bet for tying up ruinscampers

I just don't see the need for stormboyz, I have 20 of them as they're easily my favourite infantry models from gw period. Only case I see using them is in a big blob of 30 to add more oomph to a kommando deepstrike.

T1 charge, more likely T2 charge for stormboyz deployed nromally.

And then you're risking them getting gunned off the board before they do anything. You have a CP-Free in-built deepstrike which makes them invulnerable to anything other than auspex-scan style stratagems.

I look at it the other way. Youre paying only 1 point more per model for more versatility. You have the option to deploy stormboys and hit pretty much any deployment turn1 if you want to. You can also take kunning but brutal and either re deploploy them in reserve or deploy them out of LoS. ive taken stormboys or kommandos every game so far since dex (around 10) and have gotten way more value out of stormboys than i have kommandos.

Well yes. I was countering the idea that you should NEVER not deep strike stormboyz.

GreenTidePackers wrote:

 Sluggaloo wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Sluggaloo wrote:
Asides from the free burnas, kommandos still just seem stronger for a point less. There's no reason not to deploy both kommandos and stormboyz in reserves, so the stormboyz' mobility is negated, and kommandos are more durable+hit harder in cover. Since the changes to flying assault units no longer ignoring vertical movement in charges I think kommandos are maybe our best bet for tying up ruinscampers

I just don't see the need for stormboyz, I have 20 of them as they're easily my favourite infantry models from gw period. Only case I see using them is in a big blob of 30 to add more oomph to a kommando deepstrike.

T1 charge, more likely T2 charge for stormboyz deployed nromally.

And then you're risking them getting gunned off the board before they do anything. You have a CP-Free in-built deepstrike which makes them invulnerable to anything other than auspex-scan style stratagems.

I look at it the other way. Youre paying only 1 point more per model for more versatility. You have the option to deploy stormboys and hit pretty much any deployment turn1 if you want to. You can also take kunning but brutal and either re deploploy them in reserve or deploy them out of LoS. ive taken stormboys or kommandos every game so far since dex (around 10) and have gotten way more value out of stormboys than i have kommandos.

Similar to the discussion on KBB's and some other units, stormboyz perform much better in more casual games where the tempo is not "Game basically over turn 2". In the current pace of tournament play, where turn 3-4 is basically endgame mopup and all the action happens turn 1-2, stormboyz are functionally identical to kommandos because both will deep strike, both will charge, do their thing, and it is expected that they are either dead, or your army has swept the field and they're just mopping up.

in casual games where a unit of T4 6+ models might survive a turn, stormboyz do offer increased flexibility the turn after they arrive.

So what are the ideas for arming Nobz? I was thinking double choppas or big choppa and slugga to keep them cheap so I can run a lot. But as Death Skulls I'm also tempted to throw the occasional heavier weapon in. What do you feel is a good way to use them if you take 2 or 3 mobs of them?

 Castozor wrote:
So what are the ideas for arming Nobz? I was thinking double choppas or big choppa and slugga to keep them cheap so I can run a lot. But as Death Skulls I'm also tempted to throw the occasional heavier weapon in. What do you feel is a good way to use them if you take 2 or 3 mobs of them?

Much as in the index, nobz are best when you don't want to take 30 boyz i.e. in a mechanised list. 12 boys in a trukk or bonebreaker are pretty meh, while double choppa nobz are actually kinda scary.

Edit: if you're running deffskulls definitely add a powerclaw in there, otherwise stick to a couple of big choppas.

The blitz shouta maybe good for an evil sunz build. Warbikes and Scrapjets getting the benefit of evil sunz and bad moons vs a single target, could end up being alright.

I'm just liking the idea of a bonebreaka with a back seat driver big mek with the redder armour. It'll be moving 15" + d6+1" and charging 2d6+1" with ere we go. Use the krush 'em strat to get a higher chance of getting more attacks with the wagon.

The other 2 strats aren't great. Opening salvo just doubling the range of weapons on the gunwagon is just bad. If it was double shots then we would be talking. And hold on boys is strange they can't charge afterwards which is the same for the blitz brigade scout move back in 7th so they just sit there. It's more like a second da jump but strictly for shooting units like shoota boys, burns boys and tank bustas

the_scotsman wrote:

GreenTidePackers wrote:

 Sluggaloo wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Sluggaloo wrote:
Asides from the free burnas, kommandos still just seem stronger for a point less. There's no reason not to deploy both kommandos and stormboyz in reserves, so the stormboyz' mobility is negated, and kommandos are more durable+hit harder in cover. Since the changes to flying assault units no longer ignoring vertical movement in charges I think kommandos are maybe our best bet for tying up ruinscampers

I just don't see the need for stormboyz, I have 20 of them as they're easily my favourite infantry models from gw period. Only case I see using them is in a big blob of 30 to add more oomph to a kommando deepstrike.

T1 charge, more likely T2 charge for stormboyz deployed nromally.

And then you're risking them getting gunned off the board before they do anything. You have a CP-Free in-built deepstrike which makes them invulnerable to anything other than auspex-scan style stratagems.

I look at it the other way. Youre paying only 1 point more per model for more versatility. You have the option to deploy stormboys and hit pretty much any deployment turn1 if you want to. You can also take kunning but brutal and either re deploploy them in reserve or deploy them out of LoS. ive taken stormboys or kommandos every game so far since dex (around 10) and have gotten way more value out of stormboys than i have kommandos.

Similar to the discussion on KBB's and some other units, stormboyz perform much better in more casual games where the tempo is not "Game basically over turn 2". In the current pace of tournament play, where turn 3-4 is basically endgame mopup and all the action happens turn 1-2, stormboyz are functionally identical to kommandos because both will deep strike, both will charge, do their thing, and it is expected that they are either dead, or your army has swept the field and they're just mopping up.

in casual games where a unit of T4 6+ models might survive a turn, stormboyz do offer increased flexibility the turn after they arrive.

dont get me wrong, i think kommandos are solid too but i mean, that argument is pretty much why you would bring stormboys. If a tournament style game is decided in the first 2 turns, why wouldnt you want an option that can be flexed to having 20+ models always making a turn 1 charge with 4 attacks each. Vs kommandos where they would very easily DS in and fail a charge, even if they do survive, they dont get any value until turn 3. the only possible argument you can make for kommandos over stormboys is if you value late game board control since kommandos can be brought in via MSU. other than that, stormboys can also be reserved. On top of that, storm boys have a stronger gimmick than kommandos. you can hide a smaller stormboy unit and position them for mobing up with a large resrved unit. Getting into an adventagous position with a 14m +d6 is pretty easy and pretty much guarantees a charge with a large unit of stormboys. Stormboys have much more flexibility than kommandos. ill gladly pay the 1ppm premium on a model that offers more flexibility for a tournament list.

 Emicrania wrote:

Well that pretty much puts that argument to rest.


As for stormboyz vs kommandos.. what's the point of stormboyz now?

I guess where the index is banned Stormboyz are still relevant obj grabber?

Souped up index kommandoes with 2 burnas, bc/pk nob, Tankbusta Bombs have taken over the role of both burnas and stormboys and yet are still not ultra competitive. They are good and have a decent role of backfield ruin clearing/artillery clearing units but are not a must take unit.

I also don’t buy the idea that stormboys are much more flexible... they have a bit more movement. However they lose out on weaker saves, weaker wounding in ruins, weaker weapon options (no burnas or Tankbusta Bombs) and cost more! If you are avoiding evil suns detachment then sure stormboys are better as kommandos have a harder time making the charge they need but I’d take evil suns kommandos anyday over evilsun/Goff/deathskulls storm boyz. And Goff/deathskulls stormboys are decent!

GreenTidePackers wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

GreenTidePackers wrote:

 Sluggaloo wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Sluggaloo wrote:
Asides from the free burnas, kommandos still just seem stronger for a point less. There's no reason not to deploy both kommandos and stormboyz in reserves, so the stormboyz' mobility is negated, and kommandos are more durable+hit harder in cover. Since the changes to flying assault units no longer ignoring vertical movement in charges I think kommandos are maybe our best bet for tying up ruinscampers

I just don't see the need for stormboyz, I have 20 of them as they're easily my favourite infantry models from gw period. Only case I see using them is in a big blob of 30 to add more oomph to a kommando deepstrike.

T1 charge, more likely T2 charge for stormboyz deployed nromally.

And then you're risking them getting gunned off the board before they do anything. You have a CP-Free in-built deepstrike which makes them invulnerable to anything other than auspex-scan style stratagems.

I look at it the other way. Youre paying only 1 point more per model for more versatility. You have the option to deploy stormboys and hit pretty much any deployment turn1 if you want to. You can also take kunning but brutal and either re deploploy them in reserve or deploy them out of LoS. ive taken stormboys or kommandos every game so far since dex (around 10) and have gotten way more value out of stormboys than i have kommandos.

Similar to the discussion on KBB's and some other units, stormboyz perform much better in more casual games where the tempo is not "Game basically over turn 2". In the current pace of tournament play, where turn 3-4 is basically endgame mopup and all the action happens turn 1-2, stormboyz are functionally identical to kommandos because both will deep strike, both will charge, do their thing, and it is expected that they are either dead, or your army has swept the field and they're just mopping up.

in casual games where a unit of T4 6+ models might survive a turn, stormboyz do offer increased flexibility the turn after they arrive.

dont get me wrong, i think kommandos are solid too but i mean, that argument is pretty much why you would bring stormboys. If a tournament style game is decided in the first 2 turns, why wouldnt you want an option that can be flexed to having 20+ models always making a turn 1 charge with 4 attacks each. Vs kommandos where they would very easily DS in and fail a charge, even if they do survive, they dont get any value until turn 3. the only possible argument you can make for kommandos over stormboys is if you value late game board control since kommandos can be brought in via MSU. other than that, stormboys can also be reserved. On top of that, storm boys have a stronger gimmick than kommandos. you can hide a smaller stormboy unit and position them for mobing up with a large resrved unit. Getting into an adventagous position with a 14m +d6 is pretty easy and pretty much guarantees a charge with a large unit of stormboys. Stormboys have much more flexibility than kommandos. ill gladly pay the 1ppm premium on a model that offers more flexibility for a tournament list.

1) stormboys dont get +1A at 20 models, only Boyz have that as an ability. If they did get that, I'd agree that their 30-man unit cap would allow them to perform that role quite nicely in evil sunz.

2) we're assuming evil sunz I'm guessing because that increases their average threat range significantly to allow for a reasonable turn 1 charge (13"+7" advance+8" charge average vs 12+6+7, puts their average threat range at 28" vs 25" - pretty important if your no mans land is 24".) Evil sunz deep strikers have a 75% chance of getting in off deep strike, which is pretty phenomenal.

3) Stormboyz move 12"+6", not 14"+D6. You're thinking of warbikes.

Charge first turn with evil sunz stormboyz I'll grant is definitely pretty easy. And I'd say the best use case for them as you said is take a large mob, wait to deploy them until the VERY last unit put down, set them down right on the line, see who gets the first turn. If it's you, and your opponent has placed decent amounts of models down such that a turn 1 charge is useful - leave them there and do that. If your opponent is going first or if they have deployed a screen to make the turn 1 charge not worth it, zoop them off the board with Kunning But Brutal and deep strike them. That is a use case, and it's why they're not straight up "bad tier".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:

Well that pretty much puts that argument to rest.


As for stormboyz vs kommandos.. what's the point of stormboyz now?

I guess where the index is banned Stormboyz are still relevant obj grabber?

Souped up index kommandoes with 2 burnas, bc/pk nob, Tankbusta Bombs have taken over the role of both burnas and stormboys and yet are still not ultra competitive. They are good and have a decent role of backfield ruin clearing/artillery clearing units but are not a must take unit.

I also don’t buy the idea that stormboys are much more flexible... they have a bit more movement. However they lose out on weaker saves, weaker wounding in ruins, weaker weapon options (no burnas or Tankbusta Bombs) and cost more! If you are avoiding evil suns detachment then sure stormboys are better as kommandos have a harder time making the charge they need but I’d take evil suns kommandos anyday over evilsun/Goff/deathskulls storm boyz. And Goff/deathskulls stormboys are decent!

Goff stormboyz do get boss zag, who is a nice little character with his various buffs - IIRC, Zag is not restricted to the goffs warlord trait, so he can take Kunnin But Brutal and pull off the reserve-yoink trick on himself for free (plus the large unit of stormboyz you took him with).

The large unit of stormboyz is morale immune, and good for providing Mob Rule to your nearby squads, even though it doesn't get Green Tide. 59% chance to get in off DS is nothing to sneeze at even if it's not phenomenal at 75.

the_scotsman wrote:
Goff stormboyz do get boss zag, who is a nice little character with his various buffs - IIRC, Zag is not restricted to the goffs warlord trait, so he can take Kunnin But Brutal and pull off the reserve-yoink trick on himself for free (plus the large unit of stormboyz you took him with).

Alas, you remember incorrectly. Boss Zagstruk is a Named Character (both from a "He's a unique model" and RaW listed as such in the Points Section) with the GOFF keyword and thus is forced into the "Proper Killy" Warlord Trait. At least it's not as bad as it was pre-errata.

Thanks man, for doing this again. You solid af.

I agree if you are taking evil suns and index is allowed use kommandos over stormboys or burnas.
If you are not taking evil suns and are using Goff’s/deathskull then stormboys are better. I wouldn’t take zhagstuk as a warlord as he’s a pure suicide unit but he is a decent pk nob if you are using Goff stormboys which are decent.

I personally prefer kommandos for the role I need them. Evil suns ruin camping clearers and artillery killers.

Whoops ignore this, sorry!

Missing 2 weeks of weekly games, first due to fever and then due to work taking me to another city that day, I was itching to play again. There\s also competive tournament coming up next week so I decided to try that. Tougher list than average level maybe unless I'm totally off with what's good with orks. Anyway took my evil-sun(trike, weirdboy, 2x10 grots, 30xboyz w/big choppa, 3 deff dread with 3xccw+skorcha), death skull(big mek w/SAG, kunning but brutal), weirdboy, 3x10 grots) and bad moon(weirdboy, big mek w/MA &kff, 30xgrots, 11xgrots, 10xgrots, 15xloota, 10xtank busta) battallions with 3 KMK's spread around in individual units.

First time I would be facing adeptus mechanicus! I think he's also bit of a noob which explains couple odd moves he did. Anyway he had dominion, enginseers, 2 sniper squads, I think 3 other infantry squads with 18" assault weapons, 4 dragoons, 3 onagers(1 with AA weapon, 2 with big freeeem zappa thing), 2 castellans with 18 S6 -2 shots ech when they lock down. Oh and 2 warglaives. As no Cawl it was obviously styggies of -1 to hit and he also had always in cover cantiple on first turn.

We got the 3 cards that are always discarded at the start. I NEARLY got first turn but he seized the initiave. With 2 deep strikes, warlord(whom I would be able to redeploy anyway so could use it as null deployment) and tons of grot units he basically had deployed all his army when I put in real stuff. Oh and KMK's were pretty insignificant deployments as well.

I screwed up with kunning but brutal and rather than 30 bad moon grots I shuffled to left 10 bad moon grots thinking I would still be relocating lootas there. Stupid. I also put up warlord to position to see both his groups forgetting he had 2 units with sniper rifles(S7 d3 wound ones with mortals on 6 to wound...). This cost life of warlord. Dakkabots went to lockdown mode and fired 36 shots at 30 grots. I forgot 5++ and lost half. He also charged with dragoons killing couple more and the KFF mek. Oops. Stupid mistakes all around from me. Warglaive #1 and freeeem beams ended up costing me 2 KMK's. Curiously another warglaive stayed behind. I even verified that was intentional. He said 30 boyz were worrying. I still think he should have moved ahead and put pressure with that too.

Ork T1. I mostly stayed put. With right flank basically smashed into big hole not much I COULD do. Lootas also were now in convenient spot seeing the dragoons so no need to move and the hill and big LOS blocking thing in center meant dakkabots don't see them nor does anything. Tank bustas moved ahead, trike moved next to warglaive. I figured I didn't want that thing close to lootas so prefer trading off trike to warglaive. Fist of gork to that. Shooting. More dakka to lootas that fired at dragoons. After smoke settled 1 was left standing. Bwahaha. This was better than I had hoped so I opted not to use show off but instead use it with tank bustas. With them, wartrike and KMK I got tons of hits to the warglaive but RIS kept it mostly alive. He spent pretty much all his good luck here. I charged in with trike and finished it off though. 7 S9 attacks did the trick.

AM 2: Lone dragoon dealt with weirdboy and runtherd that had been struggling to get anywhere. Shooting he blew out all the bad moon grots left with grot screen saving tank bustas from dakkabots. Warglaive #2 moved in and killed trike. I think I can live with this trade off. All in all so far so good. I had lost bad moon grots sooner than I expected but he had lost warglaive, most of dragoons and I had reinforcements coming.

Ork T2: Again keeping mostly back. Lootas climbed to hill to get some LOS. Grots used to ensure dragoon ain't getting anywhere near lootas. Tank bustas moving forward to warglaive. Deep strike. Deff dreads went next to dakkabots. I later noted this was his big mistake. He should have used some of the infantry to screen these 2 fellows. Boyz went next to warglaive and preparing to charge squad of infantry that were on objective he had defend and I had secure. In magic weirdboy perilled casting super smite for 3 wounds to warglaive. Shooting. More dakka to lootas who fired at infantry squad in center killing 7 in total plus another from another squad when in show off(need to check do I need to roll shots before splitting or after. I went for worse for me and after) I split between two squads. 9 lootas managed to kill just 1...Tank bustas and KMK blew out warglaive. Charge. Boyz charged and wiped off infantry squad preventing 2 VP for him and giving me 1. Big. With deff dreads not wanting to risk giving too much 36 S6 -2 shots I decided to use ramming speed for first. Rolling 3, 3 and 1 was glad I did. Reroll that 1 and made it taking 1 wound in return. Other 2 then made charges. First whiffed in attacks, 2nd took out dakkabot. He used strategem to autoblow up causing 2 wounds to dakkabot and his warlord and 2(already injured)+1+3 to my deff dreads. 3rd one then chopped last one to pieces.

AM T3. End looming. He tried to deal with my deff dreads and did take down one of the ones with 3 wounds. Also killed few boyz but all in all he whiffed almost every single crucial to hit roll here. 4 snipers hitting on 3+ vs my last weirdboy(with 2 wounds in) all miss. Freeem guns shot 3 times and missed all etc...

Ork T3. Good maelstrom cards so time to kill stuff. Deff dread #1 moved next to infantry squad. Second one next to warlord. Boyz toward onager and enginseer. Magic I da jumped tank bustas next to onager. Shooting. KMK blew out the last dragoon, tank bustas caused 9/11 wounds to onager. Lootas I had used more dakka(leaving just 1CP) and fired at the squad next to deff dread killing all 10. If even 1 had left I would have not even killed with deff dread as I had "opponent fail morale check" maelstrom card. Other deff dread flamed warlord and charged slicing it up. Boyz charged enginseer causing 1 wound and then nob took down onager. At this point opponent gave up with enginseer, 2 onagers and 2 sniper squads left. I had commanding victory point lead and he was going to struggle to avoid wipe out.

His mistakes were warglaive held back and lack of screens for dakkabot giving deff dreads easy time dealing with them. Without them I would have struggled to deal with them. Good usage of snipers from him though. They were very annoying because of importance of weirdboys.

Not sure how much one can draw conclusions from my army. Mechboys aren't all that strong codex and he was fairly rookie(I think) with not optimized list. Let's not be too optimistic when going to that competive tournament! But need to avoid mistake in deployment and redeployment like I did here. Cost me that 30 grot squad, weirdboy and KFF mek for nothing.


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Oh and I need to airbrush some simple colours for some movement trays to ease up identifying different clan grots...

the_scotsman wrote:

GreenTidePackers wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

GreenTidePackers wrote:

 Sluggaloo wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Sluggaloo wrote:
Asides from the free burnas, kommandos still just seem stronger for a point less. There's no reason not to deploy both kommandos and stormboyz in reserves, so the stormboyz' mobility is negated, and kommandos are more durable+hit harder in cover. Since the changes to flying assault units no longer ignoring vertical movement in charges I think kommandos are maybe our best bet for tying up ruinscampers

I just don't see the need for stormboyz, I have 20 of them as they're easily my favourite infantry models from gw period. Only case I see using them is in a big blob of 30 to add more oomph to a kommando deepstrike.

T1 charge, more likely T2 charge for stormboyz deployed nromally.

And then you're risking them getting gunned off the board before they do anything. You have a CP-Free in-built deepstrike which makes them invulnerable to anything other than auspex-scan style stratagems.

I look at it the other way. Youre paying only 1 point more per model for more versatility. You have the option to deploy stormboys and hit pretty much any deployment turn1 if you want to. You can also take kunning but brutal and either re deploploy them in reserve or deploy them out of LoS. ive taken stormboys or kommandos every game so far since dex (around 10) and have gotten way more value out of stormboys than i have kommandos.

Similar to the discussion on KBB's and some other units, stormboyz perform much better in more casual games where the tempo is not "Game basically over turn 2". In the current pace of tournament play, where turn 3-4 is basically endgame mopup and all the action happens turn 1-2, stormboyz are functionally identical to kommandos because both will deep strike, both will charge, do their thing, and it is expected that they are either dead, or your army has swept the field and they're just mopping up.

in casual games where a unit of T4 6+ models might survive a turn, stormboyz do offer increased flexibility the turn after they arrive.

dont get me wrong, i think kommandos are solid too but i mean, that argument is pretty much why you would bring stormboys. If a tournament style game is decided in the first 2 turns, why wouldnt you want an option that can be flexed to having 20+ models always making a turn 1 charge with 4 attacks each. Vs kommandos where they would very easily DS in and fail a charge, even if they do survive, they dont get any value until turn 3. the only possible argument you can make for kommandos over stormboys is if you value late game board control since kommandos can be brought in via MSU. other than that, stormboys can also be reserved. On top of that, storm boys have a stronger gimmick than kommandos. you can hide a smaller stormboy unit and position them for mobing up with a large resrved unit. Getting into an adventagous position with a 14m +d6 is pretty easy and pretty much guarantees a charge with a large unit of stormboys. Stormboys have much more flexibility than kommandos. ill gladly pay the 1ppm premium on a model that offers more flexibility for a tournament list.

1) stormboys dont get +1A at 20 models, only Boyz have that as an ability. If they did get that, I'd agree that their 30-man unit cap would allow them to perform that role quite nicely in evil sunz.

2) we're assuming evil sunz I'm guessing because that increases their average threat range significantly to allow for a reasonable turn 1 charge (13"+7" advance+8" charge average vs 12+6+7, puts their average threat range at 28" vs 25" - pretty important if your no mans land is 24".) Evil sunz deep strikers have a 75% chance of getting in off deep strike, which is pretty phenomenal.

3) Stormboyz move 12"+6", not 14"+D6. You're thinking of warbikes.

Charge first turn with evil sunz stormboyz I'll grant is definitely pretty easy. And I'd say the best use case for them as you said is take a large mob, wait to deploy them until the VERY last unit put down, set them down right on the line, see who gets the first turn. If it's you, and your opponent has placed decent amounts of models down such that a turn 1 charge is useful - leave them there and do that. If your opponent is going first or if they have deployed a screen to make the turn 1 charge not worth it, zoop them off the board with Kunning But Brutal and deep strike them. That is a use case, and it's why they're not straight up "bad tier".


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gungo wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:

Well that pretty much puts that argument to rest.


As for stormboyz vs kommandos.. what's the point of stormboyz now?

I guess where the index is banned Stormboyz are still relevant obj grabber?

Souped up index kommandoes with 2 burnas, bc/pk nob, Tankbusta Bombs have taken over the role of both burnas and stormboys and yet are still not ultra competitive. They are good and have a decent role of backfield ruin clearing/artillery clearing units but are not a must take unit.

I also don’t buy the idea that stormboys are much more flexible... they have a bit more movement. However they lose out on weaker saves, weaker wounding in ruins, weaker weapon options (no burnas or Tankbusta Bombs) and cost more! If you are avoiding evil suns detachment then sure stormboys are better as kommandos have a harder time making the charge they need but I’d take evil suns kommandos anyday over evilsun/Goff/deathskulls storm boyz. And Goff/deathskulls stormboys are decent!

Goff stormboyz do get boss zag, who is a nice little character with his various buffs - IIRC, Zag is not restricted to the goffs warlord trait, so he can take Kunnin But Brutal and pull off the reserve-yoink trick on himself for free (plus the large unit of stormboyz you took him with).

The large unit of stormboyz is morale immune, and good for providing Mob Rule to your nearby squads, even though it doesn't get Green Tide. 59% chance to get in off DS is nothing to sneeze at even if it's not phenomenal at 75.

+1 attack from warpath, 14m bc evilsunz. one 19 unit of stormboys have opened holes in every game ive played and i dont exactly have casual friends. they offer so much reliability with the ability to keep them safe with kunnin but brutal all for 135 points .cant tell you how manty times if finished off a unit i shot at or tapped a tank or just deleted a unit. it also does one of two things, makes your opponent have to deploy for the possibility of these things getting to him turn 1 or they dont realize just how fast they are and you punish them.

What is preventing your opponent from just wiping them?

I constantly get my stormboyz shot off the board by noise marines, wind riders or pink horrors...

"Hiding out of LOS" rarely meshes well with first turn assaults.

With kunning but brutal he can put them out of LOS if he goes 2nd. If he goes 1st they are ready to do 1st turn charge.

Huh, haven't thought about that.