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Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 flandarz wrote:
Using Moar Dakka on stationary Lootaz ain't really optimal. Using it on mobile Lootaz is great though. That said, it's pretty easy to get 15+ CP, and most games are settled by T3, so using it every turn probably ain't gonna hurt ya.


My point. Yes sometimes there's target that you really, really, REALLY need to die and normally odds are tight enough it's worth it because overkilling target is better than failing. However these should be considered case by case and not just automatically used if you would be hitting on 5+ anyway. Now if you move(and I do that a lot) it's obviously lot bigger as it more than doubles your firepower when you would be hitting on 6...

But even with 18CP orks run out CP REAL fast. You often have 2-6 CP go to deepstrikes and lootas eat 3.33 CP per turn generally(2 for shooting again, 1 for grot shield, 1 to reroll shots 1/3 of times) so 5.33 with more dakka. If you are looking at using more command point rerolls, endless tide, fight again...Well I often run 18 CP and am out after 2 turns without even endless tide! And I have started to limit deep strike strategems to max 1...

I just might want to shoot twice in T3 as well you know Or even have CP for grot screen to keep them alive for T3...

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

think im going to give bad moonz bikers a try.
Apparently i have 29 bikers lol (30th is a bikerboss conversion). Gotta use them from time to time. My thought process being they fire a LOT of shots so badmoonz rerolls might be pretty dope.
Wonder if im fielding that many bikers (2x12+boss) if i should bother with the painboy on bike....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/17 14:53:31


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





How big of a disadvantage would a base bigger than 60mm be on a deff dredd? One of my dredd-chassis will fit on a 60mm with the feet hanging off (reminiscent of a boy on a 25), but the hips are too wide on the other and i can't get both feet on the base at the same time. I'm debating whether to put him in a "stomping" pose where he's really only standing on one foot anyways, or putting him on an oval base that's more like 80x60.

I'd really like to run them up the board with a deff-killa, but it sounds like tellyporta is the only really viable delivery system.
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Douglasville, GA

All I'm saying is that, generally, by the time T3 rolls around you already have a good idea as to whether you've lost or won, and no amount of "banked" CP is gonna change the outcome. Course, there's outlier where the outcome is still up in the air when T5 comes up, but I'd say 80% of the time the game is decided by T3.
   
Made in us
Waaagh! Warbiker





 Vineheart01 wrote:
think im going to give bad moonz bikers a try.
Apparently i have 29 bikers lol (30th is a bikerboss conversion). Gotta use them from time to time. My thought process being they fire a LOT of shots so badmoonz rerolls might be pretty dope.
Wonder if im fielding that many bikers (2x12+boss) if i should bother with the painboy on bike....


been thinking the same. They podtentially do a great job at clearing out screens and deleting units when you want to dump CP into them. I would in general forget the painboy.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 flandarz wrote:
All I'm saying is that, generally, by the time T3 rolls around you already have a good idea as to whether you've lost or won, and no amount of "banked" CP is gonna change the outcome. Course, there's outlier where the outcome is still up in the air when T5 comes up, but I'd say 80% of the time the game is decided by T3.


Depends lot on enviroment you play. Now with T1 deep strikes out and tournaments finally starting put enough LOS blocking that you won't be seeing entire opponent army(and def not his key units) T1 impact is Less. Last time I faced Ultramarines all I could do T1 besides moving around was shoot devastators(lootas took care of most, smasha guns rest) and da jump boyz to try to clear scouts(failed due to charge running short). Opponent couldn't do much more than that T1 either.

Impact of T1 is getting less and less as huge LOS blocking walls are springing around.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

 Dr.Duck wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
think im going to give bad moonz bikers a try.
Apparently i have 29 bikers lol (30th is a bikerboss conversion). Gotta use them from time to time. My thought process being they fire a LOT of shots so badmoonz rerolls might be pretty dope.
Wonder if im fielding that many bikers (2x12+boss) if i should bother with the painboy on bike....


been thinking the same. They podtentially do a great job at clearing out screens and deleting units when you want to dump CP into them. I would in general forget the painboy.


Right.

They lack the 20+ extra hit so theyre still weaker than sluggaboyz but tbh i rarely ever get 20+ boyz in melee anyway, usually overwatch causes enough damage to dip into 19.

Its 289pts for 11 Warbikers + Nob w/ PK biker. One thing i keep forgetting is warbikers have 2x dakkaguns now not a reroll so theyre firing 72 S5 shots with bad moonz reroll lol. And the speed to not care about the short-ish range.
79pts more than 30 shoota boyz = 4+ armor, +1T, -5 wounds, +1S gun, +1A, 12 more shots.
On paper that sounds legit, but if you face someone that has a lot of 2damage guns....ugh...which is why i was contemplating the painboy since he could somewhat prevent that. 2W models really arent that great imo.

Capital problem im having building a list with them is what HQs to field. Weirdboyz would have to ride in a trukk to be of any use and odds are the timing on disembark would prevent them from warpath/fists of gorking the bikers/warboss anyway, and being the sole vehicle it would get popped instantly (well, sole vehicle that can be shot, since Wartrike is a character)

Only own 1 boss on bike and 1 wartrike. Footboss feels redundant, probably still need a weirdboy for da jumping shoota boyz around, but the 4th...i doubt another weirdboy would do anything but not sure what else to use lol

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/01/18 15:00:22


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Most 2 damage guns have AP-1 or better, so a KFF would always be better than a pain boy anyways.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

True. I could easily convert a random biker to a KFF Biker. Big Meks really arent all that large so they dont require a fancy big bike like a boss does lol
Really all i need is some kind of canister with a bunch of wires going to emitters on multiple sticks poking out the back. Last time i kitbashed a kff i used a bunch of grotprod ends on toothpicks lol

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/18 15:41:11


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




As someone who runs a lo of bikers I can tell you that plasma is just a nightmare. The amount of damage a full plasma loadout on a IG tank commander did to my bikes and after that, buggies, is just insane.

Why the hell did a, tank commanders & b, plasma drop in CA? So yeah, a KFF is probably a really good bet
   
Made in us
Ragin' Ork Dreadnought




Following up on bikes: Yeah, we just melt too easily. Consider that a squad like 15 Lootas is going to kill, on average, 5 bikes in one shooting phase, 6 bikes if they're Bad Moons lootas. With a Kustom Force Field, you'll lose three bikes to five Hellblasters, without one you'll lose five.
2 damage weapons are just too common and too cheap for bikes to be consistently viable.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Vineheart01 wrote:

They lack the 20+ extra hit so theyre still weaker than sluggaboyz but tbh i rarely ever get 20+ boyz in melee anyway, usually overwatch causes enough damage to dip into 19.


What overwatch regularly kills 11 orks anyway? You don't take orks in units less than 30. Well except maybe deathskulls with 2 rokkits(basic and nob) to spam rerollable rokkits.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Not so much causes 11 wounds in overwatch but overwatch causes the remainder to break that 11 threshold, if i wasnt already there to begin with.

Theres about 6 ork players in my area and 4 of them are green tiders. People expect numbers not tough things so my wall of walkers i usually run pisses people off lol
Prior to Grotshields i ran 2x30 shootas and a 30 of sluggas for troops, since i had no real use for CP yet never bothered with grots. Post-codex i cut the sluggas since i play bad moonz anyway and got grots everywhere filling slots. Those two shoota units tend to die pretty quick for me. Rest of my list...not so much...
Most of the people in my are are semi-competitive at best. Part of the reason i dont feel bad running less optimal stuff because i dont expect optimal pwnface lists.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/01/18 18:28:55


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Smokin' Skorcha Driver






I think I'm gonna re-visit the more stormboy heavy lists. Maybe 2x30 man squads to go along with a da jumped boy squad for a hopeful mass assault turn 1. Just seems like waiting until turn 2 for your main assault strike isn't going to be very viable for much longer with all the power creep.

Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings. 
   
Made in ae
Fresh-Faced New User




I run 2x30 man Stormboyz with a Da Jumped 30 man unit of boys. All fly up the table turn one with a Warboss on bike for support and the damage it causes my opponents is amazing. But what I find even better is that I pin my opponent pretty much in their deployment zone until at least turn 3/4 leaving me to collect vp
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 flaming tadpole wrote:
I think I'm gonna re-visit the more stormboy heavy lists. Maybe 2x30 man squads to go along with a da jumped boy squad for a hopeful mass assault turn 1. Just seems like waiting until turn 2 for your main assault strike isn't going to be very viable for much longer with all the power creep.


Well here there's so much LOS blocking T1 isn't as deadly anymore.

Also here we have no bike bosses so short of kongo lines(deluting power of charge) no T1 assault chance whatsoever without advance+charge.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






As someone who runs many of them often I can tell you that Warbikes are still overcosted for what they offer the army and there are many units in our codex that do their job better. Boys and Stormboys immediately spring to mind. Remember they canā€™t enter buildings, go up stairs, theyā€™re not obsec, their shooting has no AP and many stratagems wonā€™t help them. They also cost more than 3 Boyz who can be jumped wherever you need them.

T5, 4+ save is a trap unless you field a ton of high toughness, 4+ save units and that in itself is a bad idea with the prevalence of high str, -AP weaponry.

The one thing they do offer is the potential to lock a knight in cqc and as Evil Sunz they are rapid. Not a good choice though, not by a long shot. Theyā€™re infinitely better than Nob Bikers.
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






 Vineheart01 wrote:
True. I could easily convert a random biker to a KFF Biker. Big Meks really arent all that large so they dont require a fancy big bike like a boss does lol
Really all i need is some kind of canister with a bunch of wires going to emitters on multiple sticks poking out the back. Last time i kitbashed a kff i used a bunch of grotprod ends on toothpicks lol


Actually, 5++ is only slightly better than 6+++ on a 2w model vs ap3 d2 weapons. But if the weapons are ap2 and worse, a painboy edges it out. I'd prefer a painboy simply because there's quite a lot of ap1 around.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






How is a 5++ only slightly better?

AP-3 means you don't get a save, so there is a 19.44% chance to not die from a single plasma shot if you have a pain boy nearby.
A KFF has a 33.33% chance to save both wounds.

Against AP-2, bikers have a 32.87% chance to save one or two wounds, but that is still worse than the 33.33% chance to save both since you still lose more models on average.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




Depends on your definition of slight I suppose.

A painboy also works in CC though & you can conga-line the painboy bubble, correct? Not sure I'd call that better, but it is something to consider
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Douglasville, GA

I just feel like Painboyz became a bit redundant after the Snakebitez Kultur.
   
Made in us
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout





Florida

Why not take a both KFF mek and Painboy on bike. If your not trying to optimize and want to take all bike then this would still be fun. I mean if your taking a lot of bikes anyway then why the hell not.
   
Made in us
Smokin' Skorcha Driver






tneva82 wrote:
 flaming tadpole wrote:
I think I'm gonna re-visit the more stormboy heavy lists. Maybe 2x30 man squads to go along with a da jumped boy squad for a hopeful mass assault turn 1. Just seems like waiting until turn 2 for your main assault strike isn't going to be very viable for much longer with all the power creep.


Well here there's so much LOS blocking T1 isn't as deadly anymore.

Also here we have no bike bosses so short of kongo lines(deluting power of charge) no T1 assault chance whatsoever without advance+charge.
Can you not use Zhadsnark either?

Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings. 
   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






 flandarz wrote:
I just feel like Painboyz became a bit redundant after the Snakebitez Kultur.


Doesn't help that they went up in price either. They're really more for healing weird boys who peril now, which is also questionable since for their price you can just take another one.
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




It really makes you wonder when the Ork codex was written. It's strange that they went up and I don't know if that was a reaction to some ancient meta of green tide + painboyz that ran rampant like 12/15/18 months ago.

The reason why I think our codex was written a while ago is mostly based on Ghaz though. He went up like 30 points and a month later when CA came out basically every named character instead dropped to almost laughably auto-take prices. It just seems so juxtaposed
   
Made in us
Smokin' Skorcha Driver






Ya the Ghazzy thing was probably the biggest insult in the new codex for me. We went from hearing all these rumors that they were making a new Ghaz model and giving him primarch stats to actually we didn't do anything at all so you guys are stuck with his crappy model and even crappier stats and on top of that lets make him more expensive too!

Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings. 
   
Made in ca
Waaagh! Warbiker





Has to do with the time frame in which the ork codex was releaseed. I think they stated when the IG codex dropped that they wont be touching points or rules in FAQs still 6 months after a codex has been out. So sit tight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also. You think I have to leave that roof bit off of a BW for it to count as open topped?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/19 23:10:26


 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






There is not direct connection between 'ard case and the roof bit.
It's a nice way to clarify which wagons are open topped and which aren't, but by no means necessary.

For example, you can have an open topped battlewagon with klaw, 4 big shootas and a killkannon. You cannot represent that with the official model without putting the roof on.

Just make sure your opponent can identify which wagon has which upgrades easily.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Alright boyz, just got back from a tournament and da orkz won best general.

The rough list is

Evil Sunz Battalion

Warboss on warbike with relic klaw (extra damage WL trait)

Warboss on foot with BC

30 boyz
30 Boyz
11 Boyz

2x Bonecrusha

Evil Sunz Battalion

Weirdboy (Da Jump)
Big Mek relic SAG (Dread Waagh upgrade)

30 boyz
12 Boyz
10 grotz

Bad moonz battalion

WEirdboyz x2 (Fist, Warpath)

grotz x 10
Grotz x 10
Grotz x 10

Lootas x 10
Lootas x 10


Played Tau game 1, he brought a bunch of infantry and some specialized unitz. I got first turn and proceeded to group my lootas up, dakka x3 on 5s and shoot again strat. I wiped out 3 units of his infantry and a Broadside. My Big Mek fired and killed another broadside and fired a second time and finished off the last one (10 shots at S7 was disgustingly good).

I jumped a unit of boyz and successfully assaulted his infantry and specialized infantry and basically the game was over turn 1.

Game 2 I played Eldar, he got first turn and wiped out my grotz and lootas but I Beta striked with Jumped boyz and Bonecrushas and killed his entire backfield and won the game by turn 3

Game 3 I played an IG Gunline and we ran out of time on turn 5 and had to sim the turn. Unfortunate because I had his entire army on the run and he had 2 Tank Commanders left and that was basically it. I meanwhile still had both warbosses, 60 boyz and both Bonecrushas as well as all 3 Weirdboyz.

Overall, I was very skeptical of the loota bomb but after this tournament I am convinced its going to be amazing. However, having played a few rounds without CP, the loota bomb by itself is both useless and easy to destroy. So if you don't get your points back with it in the first 2-3 rounds you are fethed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/20 01:30:15


 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
Why not take a both KFF mek and Painboy on bike. If your not trying to optimize and want to take all bike then this would still be fun. I mean if your taking a lot of bikes anyway then why the hell not.


Technically i probably should run both, theyre each ~100pts and the painboy is an added layer of protection rather than just a better one.
My main beef with it is the mandatory pk. Painboys never hit anything for me. 3 attacks hitting on 4s blows, not to mention the moment hes able to swing everyone dogpiles on him lol (KFF too)

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
 
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