Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Biker Nobs are a prime target for certain weapons and they are too expensive for their lack of durability. You're kinda banking on going first or they're likely dead.

Their primary role is to get high quality weapons in combat with their proper targets. Unfortunately other units do the job better and cheaper. Da jumped Nobs, Meganobz etc spring immediately to mind.

I don't see the point taking kustom shoota bike nobs. Those 4 str 4 ap 0 shots aren't worth the premium cost of the bike nob compared to warbikes.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Biker Nobs are a prime target for certain weapons and they are too expensive for their lack of durability. You're kinda banking on going first or they're likely dead.

Their primary role is to get high quality weapons in combat with their proper targets. Unfortunately other units do the job better and cheaper. Da jumped Nobs, Meganobz etc spring immediately to mind.

I don't see the point taking kustom shoota bike nobs. Those 4 str 4 ap 0 shots aren't worth the premium cost of the bike nob compared to warbikes.

GDubz almost had Kustom Shoota's priced correctly for the damage output compared to storm bolters. Stormbolters pre beta rule were still better in every situation except from 13'-18' and even than it was questionable at best which was better (BS3+ vs 5+).

As it currently stands I don't take Kustom Shoota's at all except on warbosses if I have 2pts extra at the end of my list building. As for nob bikers running around with Kustom Shootas....40ppm if you don't take any CC weapons is just ridiculously expensive, especially for a T5, 3 wound model with a 4+ save. If it was a 2+ I would say "Rock on" but at 4+ you are just begging to be gunned down by every multi damage weapon in the game with any kind of rate of fire. Hell, even expensive single shot weapons like Lascannons would view those as a decent target to shoot at, a Predator annihilator with 4 las shots will probably kill 2 bikers a turn (ROUGHLY!) so they make back damn near half their points in a single shooting phase.

a Single Nob biker with Kustom shoota is getting 6 S5 shots and 4 S4 shots a turn at BS5+. With Dakkax3 that gets you about 3 S5 and 2 S4 shots a turn hitting, no AP, no multi-damage and extremely short ranged. If they eventually get into CC they do have decent damage but 4S5 attacks isn't enough nor is it enough when they don't have any AP or multi-damage...again 40pts. A SM Terminator is 36pts and gets that 2+ save and Powerfist and last time i checked, people didn't take those because they were overpriced and didn't do enough damage to justify their cost.

For nob bikers to be competitive they would need to be about 10pts cheaper and come stock with a Kustom Shoota (12pt saving), so 28ppm instead of 40. And Ork warbikers need to be back down to 18ppm.

At 28ppm you are getting 10 Nob bikers for 280pts which dish out 40 S4 shots and 60 S5 shots a turn at BS5+ which averages to about 18 hits with S4 and 27 hits with S5. At that price with that damage potential the risk/reward trade off is about right, they are still fragile as all hell and will draw multi damage weapon's fire like crazy, but this way each time they get hit with a lascannon or plasma cannon it isn't a massive 40pt loss per wound.

Its good to have you back talking sense Semper.

Couldn't agree more, or perhaps we could get our exhaust cloud rule back properly.

Either way Nob bikers just don't work. I'm not sure warbikes work either but they can at least be irritating.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Its good to have you back talking sense Semper.

Couldn't agree more, or perhaps we could get our exhaust cloud rule back properly.

Either way Nob bikers just don't work. I'm not sure warbikes work either but they can at least be irritating.

regular warbikes suck as much now as they did in the index. Same issues as the Nob bikers, too expensive for too little damage return. The 6 S5 shots sounds amazing until you remember its BS5+ and 18' range. And you think "ork unit, I should get into CC" but then you realize, Ork warbikers SUCK in CC. A warbiker is just a boy with 1 more wound and 1 more toughness for all intents and purposes in CC, so for the same price you could take 3 boyz and get 3x the damage return. And with the plethora of Deepstrike options in our codex warbikers rapid movement is basically negated because I can have a blob of 30 boyz appear behind enemy lines turn 1 and on turn 2 I can have 2 bonecrushers and 80 boyz appear behind enemy lines (3 deep strike including 20 boyz in the wagonz and 30 more boyz from another jump) Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Warbikes and nob bikers, but they just don't stand a chance in a meta where killing a Knight turn 1 is considered optimizing a list.

im literally only using warbikers because my area is casual enough to get away with it.
If i were playing to be competitive/WAAC, i wouldnt even think about touching them. Or half the codex for that matter

Yea I’m in a similar place with them, if I go first they are disruptive - with volume of shots and first turn charges they tend to be decent at screen clearing. Because they’re kinda ‘meh’ people tend to ignore them first turn in favour of juicier targets and a KFF can help if they are targeted. A full squad of 12 is an investment though. They don’t do much damage nor are they durable but they can force the opponent to deal with them and give your alpha strike a little more punch.

Same, I often run 8-10 bikers but they only work if I go first and even then I don't think they've ever killed their points back. Earning their points back is a bit of a iffy concept since if they tie up a tank for a couple of turns after they've cleared a screen then I'm happy.

If they dropped to 18ppm I would run a big squad almost every game just beacuse that's 221 with a big choppa nob. Then you're getting weight of shots and speed (and decent durability) but anything over 20ppm is just a tough pill to swallow. Unless they change them to the Troop role, which won't happen. Or if "Billowing exhaust clouds" can be activated at the start of any movement phase instead of just your own.

I recently found my old Ork army in a box and am now debating what to do with it, basically:

Are Killakanz worth it?
because i sit on a lot of them.

Not Online!!! wrote:
I recently found my old Ork army in a box and am now debating what to do with it, basically:

Are Killakanz worth it?
because i sit on a lot of them.

Not really.
Their shooting isn't very good and can be found *much* cheaper from other sources.
Their melee suffers from hitting on a 5+ and needing a large squad to get volume of attacks.
Their durability is theoretically decent, getting a T5, 5W model with a 3+, but their abysmally low leadership means that you're very vulnerable to losing your whole squad after losing a few models. (Unless you shepherd them with a Warboss, that is.)
They're abysmally slow.

Compared to Meganobz, they're more durable and marginally better at shooting, but cost 20-30% more per model (depending on loadout), can't be transported, and are far worse in melee.

Taking a couple as a screen wouldn't be the worst idea ever, but it generally just pays to bring more boys, more than it pays to bring Kanz.

Waaaghpower wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I recently found my old Ork army in a box and am now debating what to do with it, basically:

Are Killakanz worth it?
because i sit on a lot of them.

Not really.
Their shooting isn't very good and can be found *much* cheaper from other sources.
Their melee suffers from hitting on a 5+ and needing a large squad to get volume of attacks.
Their durability is theoretically decent, getting a T5, 5W model with a 3+, but their abysmally low leadership means that you're very vulnerable to losing your whole squad after losing a few models. (Unless you shepherd them with a Warboss, that is.)
They're abysmally slow.

Compared to Meganobz, they're more durable and marginally better at shooting, but cost 20-30% more per model (depending on loadout), can't be transported, and are far worse in melee.

Taking a couple as a screen wouldn't be the worst idea ever, but it generally just pays to bring more boys, more than it pays to bring Kanz.

Feels bad: My army was a Insane Big Meks Waagh.

So i own quite alot of contraptions and vehicles:
That said Dakkajets and Burnabommers are decent hopefully?

Not Online!!! wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I recently found my old Ork army in a box and am now debating what to do with it, basically:

Are Killakanz worth it?
because i sit on a lot of them.

Not really.
Their shooting isn't very good and can be found *much* cheaper from other sources.
Their melee suffers from hitting on a 5+ and needing a large squad to get volume of attacks.
Their durability is theoretically decent, getting a T5, 5W model with a 3+, but their abysmally low leadership means that you're very vulnerable to losing your whole squad after losing a few models. (Unless you shepherd them with a Warboss, that is.)
They're abysmally slow.

Compared to Meganobz, they're more durable and marginally better at shooting, but cost 20-30% more per model (depending on loadout), can't be transported, and are far worse in melee.

Taking a couple as a screen wouldn't be the worst idea ever, but it generally just pays to bring more boys, more than it pays to bring Kanz.

Feels bad: My army was a Insane Big Meks Waagh.

So i own quite alot of contraptions and vehicles:
That said Dakkajets and Burnabommers are decent hopefully?

Eh....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dakkajets don't bring enough firepower for their cost to make them worth it.
One Dakkajet with all the guns has about the equivalent firepower of the Twin Assault Cannon on a Stormraven. That's not bad, but it's not fantastic either when we're talking about a 150pt model with T6 and a tissue paper save.
The Blitza Bomber suffers from the fact that it pays to deal Mortal Wounds, but it does Mortal Wounds best against large squads, and large squads full of models who care about mortal wounds are rare.

Both the dakkajet and burna-bommers are good IMO. The burna bommer is a bomb in and out of itself so park it all the way back, away from everything in your DZ T1. Then fly it smack ino the middle of the enemy lines, if they gun it down it'll blow up BIG and will be tough to get out of the way of. What this means is basically that you're guaranteed to get to drop both bombs against an opponent who knows its stats since they don't want to risk that explosion. Don't take the skorcha missiles though.

The dakkajet as freebootas or bad moons is pretty darn good, especially if you're firing at non-supersonic flyers. A 1CP strat to get +1 to hit is handy in a lot of cases.

Kans are pretty sad IMO though, they're just outdone by other options, even if the models and fluff is amazing

PiñaColada wrote:
Both the dakkajet and burna-bommers are good IMO. The burna bommer is a bomb in and out of itself so park it all the way back, away from everything in your DZ T1. Then fly it smack ino the middle of the enemy lines, if they gun it down it'll blow up BIG and will be tough to get out of the way of. What this means is basically that you're guaranteed to get to drop both bombs against an opponent who knows its stats since they don't want to risk that explosion. Don't take the skorcha missiles though.

The dakkajet as freebootas or bad moons is pretty darn good, especially if you're firing at non-supersonic flyers. A 1CP strat to get +1 to hit is handy in a lot of cases.

Kans are pretty sad IMO though, they're just outdone by other options, even if the models and fluff is amazing

Thanks for the help.

I also heard that the big gunz (the old arty is gone)

i guess i will need some reworking of said list.
Question, Culture is not tied to the warboss right?

Not Online!!! wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
Both the dakkajet and burna-bommers are good IMO. The burna bommer is a bomb in and out of itself so park it all the way back, away from everything in your DZ T1. Then fly it smack ino the middle of the enemy lines, if they gun it down it'll blow up BIG and will be tough to get out of the way of. What this means is basically that you're guaranteed to get to drop both bombs against an opponent who knows its stats since they don't want to risk that explosion. Don't take the skorcha missiles though.

The dakkajet as freebootas or bad moons is pretty darn good, especially if you're firing at non-supersonic flyers. A 1CP strat to get +1 to hit is handy in a lot of cases.

Kans are pretty sad IMO though, they're just outdone by other options, even if the models and fluff is amazing

Thanks for the help.

I also heard that the big gunz (the old arty is gone)

i guess i will need some reworking of said list.
Question, Culture is not tied to the warboss right?

Big Gunz *would* be great if they had been brought into the codex, got Dakka Dakka Dakka, and were about 5pts cheaper. As it is, they're just massively outdone by Mek Gunz.

Clan Culture isn't "tied to the warboss", it's based on detachments. If you have a detachment of Freebooterz, all the units in that detachment have to be freebooterz. If you have a detachment of Deathskullz, all of the units in that detachment have to be deathskullz. (Flash Gitz are an exception to this rule.)
You can take multiple detachments.

Kultures are just the benefits from your clan, so chapter traits/craftworlds/etc whatever they're named in the army you're playing. So they're detachment based if you want the bonus. Only Flash Gitz circumvent this by being able to be placed in any detachment without breaking the bonus.

The old big gunz are gone (index only) and don't get dakkadakkadakka etc. The people in the thread can probably help you find a direction for your army if you jot down what you currently have & would want modelwise.

Edit: Got ninjad

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Yea I’m in a similar place with them, if I go first they are disruptive - with volume of shots and first turn charges they tend to be decent at screen clearing. Because they’re kinda ‘meh’ people tend to ignore them first turn in favour of juicier targets and a KFF can help if they are targeted. A full squad of 12 is an investment though. They don’t do much damage nor are they durable but they can force the opponent to deal with them and give your alpha strike a little more punch.

It looks like Nob bikes can only have a max squad of 9.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Their 32" move range using the Vigalus "turbo busta" strat is very appealing. My plan would be to start them within my Morkanauts kFF shield and beside a Dok. They'd need to kept out of LoS too but that 32" move and 2d6 +1" charge means they could very likely make a T1 charge. I'm also da jumping a squad of 30 boyz. The idea is to target saturate T1.

I won't lie I'm trying to justify bringing bikes because I've a load of converted cyboars from 3rd edition that I want to use.

I get that for the same points I could bring a 30 boy squad AND a 5 x Nob squad but in reality even if I deep struck them they'd only arrive T2 allowing my opposition to deal with my army piece meal.

I'm thinking of running a bad moonz, dread mob battalion with a Supa Shoka Mek and a Morkanaut. That allows 2 units to fire twice (with reroll 1s). It looks like the "kustom ammo" strat makes the Morkanaut viable. Its shooting does degrade either so it would in turn distract from the Nob bikers.

Just as a FYI, they don't move 32" even as evil sunz. It's 30". You multiply the 14" by 2 and then add your additional 2". The whole weapon strength scenario is an exception to that rule.

I'm sure your tactic could work but it's just so many CPs being spent. 2 for the strat, another 1 for the actual detachment. Another 2 for the relic SAG and its detachment. Another 2 if you want to fire it again (or 4 if you want 2 units to fire twice)

I'm just saying, that alpha strike better wipe the floor against your opponent because you'll be pretty dry after that.

I've got a Sophies choice. I'm taking an evil sunz brigade. I'm putting 4 x 10 grots in battlewagons and have 4 units deep striking (gota make use of the 8" charge) Alonside that I'm running a dread mob battalion, currently bad moonz, with a mek, weirdboy, 3 x 10 grots and a morkanaut. If I make the battalion mixed (evil sunz weird boy, bad moonz mek, 2 of the grots blood axes and a evil sunz morkanaut) I can get my number of drops down from 15 to 11. This increases the chances of a +1 to go first but I lose the bad moon reroll 1s (and it'll cost me 2xCP to deep strike the two blood axe grot squads). I'm pretty sure this isn't worth it but I'm interested to hear your thoughts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PiñaColada wrote:
Just as a FYI, they don't move 32" even as evil sunz. It's 30". You multiply the 14" by 2 and then add your additional 2". The whole weapon strength scenario is an exception to that rule.

I'm sure your tactic could work but it's just so many CPs being spent. 2 for the strat, another 1 for the actual detachment. Another 2 for the relic SAG and its detachment. Another 2 if you want to fire it again (or 4 if you want 2 units to fire twice)

I'm just saying, that alpha strike better wipe the floor against your opponent because you'll be pretty dry after that.

Nob bikers have a movement of 14". Speed freeks get +2" movement for being evil sunz instead of +1". Turbo boostas strat doubles "the movement". Thats where I'm getting the 32" move. Pretty sure thats right.

I'm running a battalion and brigade so have 20CP to spend (17 after 2 x specialist detachment and an extra relic) I'd only need to use the turbo boosta strat and being honest if the Nobs are allowed to survive in the backfireld for longer that 2 turns I'd be shocked. The supa shokka mek can only be targeted by snipers so will probably get 3 turns of shooting and the morkanaut could conceivably survive till T3 if he's beside the mek repairing him.

Well, you're at least swimming in CPs so that's good. I understand what you mean regarding the bikes, they still only move 30" as I explained above. You multiply then add, weapon strength modifiers are the exception, not the rule. (BRB page 175)

And if you have that many CPs then go for the relic SAG, I personally love that guy

Reading the rules for the turbo boosta I think it might actually be 31" as you add 2" to the movement and 1" to the advance. I wouldn't mind a FAQ answer.

Just wondering how snipers work when it comes to grot shields. I think the supa shokka mek might be a target.

My experience with nob bikers is that their shooting is great and their close combat power is mediocre. A nob biker with dual choppas is just two less points than a kopta with big shoota, which has more speed, range, wounds and FLY while matching its damage in combat and shooting. If you put BC and PK on your nob bikers they cost more points while not dealing a lot more damage since they are bound to take casualties before or during combat.

In all my games with them, their main contribution came from their dakkaguns. Therefore I just started using them as warbikers, making my whole army better while losing nothing - quite the opposite actually, since people are a lot less likely to aim big guns at warbikers than at nobz, I get to keep my infantry-murdering bikes around a lot longer.

 Jidmah wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
Is you big mek a SAG big mek? If so, check out the relic from the dread waaagh detachment in Vigilus defiant. It's 2d6 shots instead of 1d6. That guy is going to wreck face if he gets to hit on 4's.

About that... I have used that relic three times so far and it did next to nothing. As soon as -1 to hit or invul saves are involved the 2d6 shots hitting on 5+ simply don't cut it. Two hits which might be wounding on fives have not been doing much for me, and I'm not wasting the shooting phase re-roll on the strength roll. The dead shiny shoota I have been running just for the heck of it has killed more than the relic SAG and costs less CP.

The relic gets you on average 7 shots for 2 hits with 1 roll of a 1 and a roll of a 6 which means two rerolls, one of which can reroll a 1 again, overall its almost exactly 3 hits a turn on average. Average strength is 7 as well. I have had amazing luck with this thing, I was about to kill a Broadside in a single round of shooting with it, and than used the shoot twice strat to kill his buddy. Basically earning my points back and than some with 1 round of shooting and some CP

The thing with average is that you are not evaluating how likely those averages are. The SAG is highly unreliable as you can get any combination of high strength and low shots, low strength and high shots, low strength and low shots which end up simply not doing jack against your target. Rolling 6 (or worse) for strength and 6 (or worse) for shots against T7 target is very likely to happen and suddenly you find yourself looking a two hits wounding on fives, and simply not wounding at all on average without deff skulls. Since games tend to be decided by turn three or four, you get three tries at best to roll a lucky combination of high strength and decent shots (let's say anything five and higher), and then not fail your hit or wounding rolls.

Or you happen to face Allaitoc, Nurgle or Knights, then the SAG will simply suck unless you get really lucky.

The SAG is a decent cheap HQ, but the souped up version is not worth 2CP in my opinion.

Interesting discussion but I completely disagree. This weekend I fielded the Souped up SAG in a tournament and it performed wonderful.

I used a Freebootaz Souped up SAG with a Big Killa Warboss trait on the Mek. He most often hits on 4's and always wounds on 4's or better with devestating results. Of course it is not a guarantee (what is when playing orks) but my opponents did everything they could after seeing him obbliterate one of their units.

---

Another thing:

I am thinking of running a list with two Nobs unit of the following composition: 1x PK/choppa 4x Combi skorcha/choppa 2 x dual choppa. Both units will be fielded in Chinorks.

Quite an expensive setup, but I think it might work. At deplyoyment they will hide behind the Killtank so an opponent can't get an easy shoot. From there they race and advance for 24" and unleash their skorchas on a juicy target. Of course the Chinork might be shot down in the opponents phase. But with Loot it! you'll have 3+ orks which are nice in overwatch and pack a ton of S5 attacks when they attack. Anybody tried this?

 Singleton Mosby wrote:

Interesting discussion but I completely disagree. This weekend I fielded the Souped up SAG in a tournament and it performed wonderful.

I used a Freebootaz Souped up SAG with a Big Killa Warboss trait on the Mek. He most often hits on 4's and always wounds on 4's or better with devestating results. Of course it is not a guarantee (what is when playing orks) but my opponents did everything they could after seeing him obbliterate one of their units.

I didn't think of giving him the big killa warboss trait. Very interesting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Singleton Mosby wrote:


Another thing:

I am thinking of running a list with two Nobs unit of the following composition: 1x PK/choppa 4x Combi skorcha/choppa 2 x dual choppa. Both units will be fielded in Chinorks.

Quite an expensive setup, but I think it might work. At deplyoyment they will hide behind the Killtank so an opponent can't get an easy shoot. From there they race and advance for 24" and unleash their skorchas on a juicy target. Of course the Chinork might be shot down in the opponents phase. But with Loot it! you'll have 3+ orks which are nice in overwatch and pack a ton of S5 attacks when they attack. Anybody tried this?

The problem with mounting up nobz in transport is they won't get to charge till turn two. In that case telaporting them as evil sunz seems to be the way forward. Chinorks are fast but their limited capacity means you can't throw grots in with them to soak up the wounds when they inevitably explode. A hard top battlewagon with 2x5 nobz and 10 grots means you won't lose any of your Nobz. (and you might even have some objective secured grots to steal an objective left after you dismount) and you even use the grot shield strat to ensure your Nobz get to charge.

A flying flamer chinork does seem cool though. Unsurprisingly it will be errupting in ball of flames though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I didn't think of taking the dread mob battalion as freebootas. Effectively the only units benefiting would be the Supa SAG mek and the Morkanaut. Using the Kustom ammo strat on the Mek would "probably" destroy a unit giving the Morkanaut +1 to hit. However the possibility of shooting 3 times with the Supa Mek if he's a bad Mek(1 extra using showing off and another using kustom Ammo) looks a bit better especially if that knight must die.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Singleton Mosby wrote:

About that... I have used that relic three times so far and it did next to nothing. As soon as -1 to hit or invul saves are involved the 2d6 shots hitting on 5+ simply don't cut it. Two hits which might be wounding on fives have not been doing much for me, and I'm not wasting the shooting phase re-roll on the strength roll. The dead shiny shoota I have been running just for the heck of it has killed more than the relic SAG and costs less CP.

If you're targeting anything with -1 then More Dakka is a must. Not only does it effectively ignore the negative modifier but it'll generate more shots. And it lasts for the phase so you could combo it with the bad moon shoot twice and the dread mob shoot again. Granted this is 6 CP on a single unit but Damn thats going to cause a serious amount of pain. Theres a reason I take a battalion and a brigade. I need all those CPs

thanks for enlightening me to this triple combo... that's just sick. 25 lootabomb shooting three times with exploding 5's . My friends are not going to like this .
And if my opponent has too many tanks/transports. the same on the tankbustas. so juicy.

Yup. And that combo will work exactly once, before T1 becomes "murder all these Lootas and hamstring the entire list".

You can't shoot three times with lootas since kustom ammo only works on deff dreads, Gork/Morkanauts and big meks

Ya Pina Colada is right. The Supper SAG Mek is pretty good/better. He can't be targetted as a character either. Anyone know what the story with snipers targetting him and using grot shield? I assume the mortal wounds being wounds still go to the grots on a 2+.

I realised that the more dakka strat also allows the mek to move and shoot effectively negating the -1 to move with a heavy. I'm going to start him in the gorkanaut. The gives him an 8" moving range when he disembarks either side of the gorkanaut (which is pretty wide unto itself) allowing him to peek around LoS blocking terrain (especially in ITC). The fact he can't be targetted if I don't go first and it reduces my drops is the icing on the cake.

If there was no need to move to get LoS (say if you were targeting a Knight for example) the Mek can even repair the Morkanaut he was just in.

I'm currently doing the mathhammer using Big Killa. Really like that Idea Singlteon Mosby

CaptainO wrote:

 Singleton Mosby wrote:

Interesting discussion but I completely disagree. This weekend I fielded the Souped up SAG in a tournament and it performed wonderful.

I used a Freebootaz Souped up SAG with a Big Killa Warboss trait on the Mek. He most often hits on 4's and always wounds on 4's or better with devestating results. Of course it is not a guarantee (what is when playing orks) but my opponents did everything they could after seeing him obbliterate one of their units.

I didn't think of giving him the big killa warboss trait. Very interesting.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I didn't think of taking the dread mob battalion as freebootas. Effectively the only units benefiting would be the Supa SAG mek and the Morkanaut. Using the Kustom ammo strat on the Mek would "probably" destroy a unit giving the Morkanaut +1 to hit. However the possibility of shooting 3 times with the Supa Mek if he's a bad Mek(1 extra using showing off and another using kustom Ammo) looks a bit better especially if that knight must die.

You are correct about the SAG Mek being the only one to benefit from the Dread waagh rules. But I don't care about that I just see the 1CP I pay as the cost of the Souped-up SAG. He does benefit tremendously from being Freebootaz however, making him 1,5 times as effective. And the CP spend on letting him shoot twice is thus 1,5 times more effective as well.

A Freebootaz Dread Waagh Mek with the Souped-up SAG, adding the Big killa Warboss trait really is a shooty monster! Just place him in terrain with some grots in front and enjoy the carnage.

Using the Bad moon mek with big killa triple combo (More dakka+showing off+kustom ammo) you're looking at 11 hits on average.

21 shots
7 initial hits
3.5 rerolls
8.2 hits which also means 8.2 extra shots.

2.66 more hits
1,4 rerolls
rounding up to 3 extra hits

Each of the three times There is an 83% chance you'll roll a S5 on 2d6 which means that with big killa theres 11 hits with a gun that can wound a knight on a 4+, a 42% chance you're going to wound a knight on a 3+ and a 28% chance you'll wound on a 2+.

Each time you roll for strength theres only an 8% chance you'll get those sweet mortal wounds but if you save your 1 "shooting phase CP reroll" that possibility goes up to 20%. It makes sense to only use the reroll when one of your dice is already a 6.

As I said this is a huge CP sink but the Faq says you can change targets so if that knight is down to 1 wound you can focus fire else where. The wording of Kustom ammo implies you declare you're firing "twice" before you shoot but the "showing off" strat states you declare after you've fired. It makes sense to use kustom ammo first incase you some how obliterate all visable targets so you don't waste CP.

So was looking over the orks lists Nick and Matt brought. Nick's list is basically the same except he's cut down slightly on the boyz squads to fit in a 3 man MANZ squad which I think is a good choice. Matt's list I found very interesting in particular. He has a similar list to Nick's except Zhardsnark instead of mega warboss and instead of 2x10 boyz squads he has 2x10 kommandos (also has MANZ but in a larger 7 man squad). The strat I found interesting in his list though, at least what I'm guessing he's doing, is for his third detachment he opted to take soup with a snakebite weirdboy, blood axe big mek, and bad moonz grots. The soup aspect is nothing new, but it didn't dawn on me until now when looking over the relics that he could give his blood axe big mek the finkin kap allowing him to take what I can only assume is the "I've got a plan, Ladz!" clan warlord trait allowing him to gain CP back. Anyways, just thought I'd share.