No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]

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**An Actual Englishman**

The Shrike wrote:
An Actual Englishman wrote:
Tellyporta stratagem gents? Can't be denied, guaranteed to be in combat T2 if you run ES.

I am starting to wonder if we should be building mass Deep Strikes and T1 pressure to be honest. T1 chaff clearing pressure, bikes, Da Jumped Boyz etc. T2 drop the heavier hitters in like the Bonebreakas and another squad of Boyz to ensure they don't get surrounded.

At 2k I’ve been running a Tellyporta-d Gorkanaut, Da Jump’d Skarboyz and 3 battle wagons with nobz or manz. But I’ve only just learned that you can tellyporta multiple times since it’s in deployment. So I’m going to try doing that and see. Ofc it means blowing most of my CP before the game starts but at least I’m close.

Exactly, just make sure you're not leaving yourself open to a possible tabling turn 1. Hide those Boyz and Grot units if you have them outside of LOS.

As an aside I wouldn't bother putting MANZ in a transport. They're the only unit that can't loot them, keep Nobz and Flash Gits in them instead. Perhaps even Boyz.

**ManTube**

I ran a deepstrike-committed list against fairly competitive tau. Lost but did ok, and my opponent was a much better player than I was, used to tournament play and smart with screening/chaining greater good and tau auras.

Tau list was (from memory):

Spoiler:

I played something like:

Spoiler:

Game summary:

Spoiler:

So 50% of this list on the nose teleports in t2. The rest of the boyz cower way in the corner surrounded by grots and kff sheltered for turn 2 when dreads drop in. Mob up one 10 boy squad with a 30 boy squad and jump them in with.

Didnt go first, but weathered tau shooting well enough. I should have da jumped up a squad here to try and clear firewarriors but was scared of trying to soak the overwatch. He was running tau sept so overwatch on 5+ and everything was withing 6 inches for greater good triggers so I felt they would have been blown away. So I hid like a grot and did little in response, biding time for turn 2 assault. Hide as best as I can out of LOS

T2 for him. I weather more shooting. Have maybe half my boyz left and no grotz.

T2 for me I teleporta I deep strike in and mob up+da jump boyz up. My deff dread dies in overwacth from fusion stealth suit. Other doesnt make its charge. I use ramming speed on a gork. My other Gork fails a charge and the da jumped boyz also charge in. All I kill are firewarriors screens. Rough turn. Ive done nothing with t1 and my t2 beta strike has failed due to smart screening and deadly tau overwatch. Both gorks took nasty overwatch wounds

His t3, he kills a Gork, but unluckily for him the gork explodes in the middle of his lines! We were playing modifed ITC missions and I picked up headhunter just from this as the mortal wounds wiped several of his well screened characters. Both riptides take a beating too. Other deff dread is killed by stealth suit. More boyz are slaughtered.

My t3, my surviving gork is healed by big Mek but still stays in bottom profile. It lets out its tankbustas. Some wounds are dealt, my characters charge out, trying to get objectives. I da jump one weirdboy with the other to get a smite off on his riptide, finishing one off. My klaw boss charges the other and kills it. Boys rush for objectives, tankbustas fire ineffectively. Gork kills more firewarriors bc of lack of targets

His t4 he kills gork, klaw boss and 1 weirdboy, as well as half the tankbustas and the rest of the boyz. I have a big Mek a weird boy and 5 tankbustas and hes ahead by just enough on points with few scoring options for me so we call it.

Closing thoughts, I had a rough go with my charge luck, failing 3 out of 5 evil suns charges and one charging dread dying in overwatch. Threw away my first turn bc I had basically no firepower and was relying on a beta strike. Effective opponent screening neutralized all my successful charges. Honestly, the gorkanaut exploding was the one thing that kept me relevant for another turn, basically dealing d6 mortal wounds to his entire army with how closely packed for auras they were. I wish we had a garunteed explosion stratagem like admech...

Putting the tankbustas in the gorks was pointless. The idea was to keep them off the board and not have to pay for trukks to keep them survivable but waiting till t3 to use them made them worthless. Also, tau suits dont have the vehicle keyword so they got no rerolls.

Admittedly, this tau list was a rough go for orks. My opponent had very good screening discipline and left nothing uncovered. The overwatch was brutal. But I feel if you are going to try a teleporta beta-strike focused list, you need strong cp (I ran a double battalion and extra cp trait to afford it) and the non teleporta parts of the list would need to be very focused on screen clearence. Anything that is riding in a teleporting transport better be a shooting unit in an open topped vehicle, because as 8th currently stands in this edition, the game really happens in turn 1 and 2 and turn 3 may as well be endgame. Having a unit that has to wait until turn 3 to do anything is a waste of points. I plan on editing the list to be more like 2 gorkanauts teleporting in, with one shoota boy unit to da jump up and shoot+charge, with the rest of the list being shooting focused.

**Jidmah**

Deep striking done breakers is kind of wasting points. You can't disembark their passengers, so a Gorkanaut will almost always be a better choice. Plus even with evil suns culture and ramming speed a charge is by no means guaranteed, failing one or two charges is not unlikely and will be crippling for your game.

In my games the best way to protect my bone breakers was to get some dakkajets in my opponent's face and jump a unit of boyz turn 1 to threaten something valuable. KFFs will increase the effort needed to kill a wagon, but they won't actually protect one - especially since it does nothing against mortal wounds and RoF weapons which always plonk away at least a third of my wagon's wounds.

**Emicrania**

Guys, do you play ever TTS? if so, is it a reliable way to test lists?
Also please contact me if you wanna play, I´m new to TTS but it looks like a fun way to play faster with long distance friends

**flandarz**

I use TTS. If you got some pals, it's a nice way to try out lists before spending hundreds of dollars on models and whatnot. Especially for us Orkz, since we're one of the more model-heavy armies.

**JawRippa**

Emicrania wrote:
Guys, do you play ever TTS? if so, is it a reliable way to test lists?
Also please contact me if you wanna play, I´m new to TTS but it looks like a fun way to play faster with long distance friends

Yea, TTS is a really solid way to test stuff. Only thing that it may have problems with is terrain and model hitbox collision. Iti s a shame that there are mostly DoW1 models for orks in the workshop though, DoWII are way better in my opinion.

**Freddie Gibbs**

JawRippa wrote:
Emicrania wrote:
Guys, do you play ever TTS? if so, is it a reliable way to test lists?
Also please contact me if you wanna play, I´m new to TTS but it looks like a fun way to play faster with long distance friends

Yea, TTS is a really solid way to test stuff. Only thing that it may have problems with is terrain and model hitbox collision. Iti s a shame that there are mostly DoW1 models for orks in the workshop though, DoWII are way better in my opinion.

I actually got a stash of Orks that are based off of the DoW 2 models if that tickles your fancy. Just search for Ork stash in the workshop.

But yeah, I'd say TTS is a great tool in general to play games with. It might be a bit tedious to start with, but once you know the keybinds, it's smooth sailing.

It does help if the models have some good collission boxes too though.

**G00fySmiley**

On the bone breaker..

wartrike is needed, zip up, advance, and try to get a turn 1 charge.

being able to redeploy with kunnin but brutal is also super good option. put em on one side, opponent places anti tank guns in range on where they are at, then redeploy 2-4 units out of line of fire.

if going second use that all units in cover strat, or if there is enough terrain just keep em partially out of line of site.

having a blasta jet or gorkanaught with kff makes you ~1/3 more survivable (not to mortal wounds hence ~1/3 and not actually that high). index big mek on bike with kff is also viable for this and can keep up.

Another issue I find with a lot of bone breaker lists is split lists.

I am finding as with past editions the strongest of my lists concentrate on one thing. Either run all vehicle so the anti infantry guns are mostly useless, or run almsot all infantry so the anti tank guns are wasted. Most of out units have a xenos tax and cost more than they should.

3 bone breaker wagons with hard hitters inside, mass buggies (the good ones like kbb, srap jet and shokk jump) a gorkanaught, and some p[lanes can be very effective.

Alternatively groups of 30 boys with 3 rokkits and nob with pk x however many points you have with a few ubnits of 10 gretchin and filling hq slots with warbosses for waagh, wierdboys for da jump and a nob banner or 2 sprinkled in for good measure.

in either list though you need big mek guns because they are just that good.

**The Shrike**

I’m going to try bringing one Bone Breaka as Evil Sunz; grant it Ere We Go with Blitz Brigade, Deffkilla Wartrike allowing it to charge, use the 3D6 charge stratagem to get it in, all while using Hold On Ladz to drag 30 Boyz along with it, then Da Jump 30 more. Then I’ll bring a Gorkanaut with Tellyporta and another Battwagon behind with more Nobz or MANZ and see how that goes.

**mhalko1**

how often does everyone fight Guilleman lists? I was playing around with a way to kill him quick using 15 deathskull tankbustas kitted with 3 tank hammers rushing at him. Didn't know how effective or likely they would be at killing him. You get 1 reroll to hit, wound and damage reroll to try and deal out 9 mortal wounds to him.

**tneva82**

Would need to be very lucky for opponent to allow charging him. Getting into grenade range for 10 grenades is hard. Getting close combat is even harder

And you average bit less than 6 mortal wounds so...

**Jidmah**

Use all those tank bustas to feth up those units he is buffing. On average those tank bustas will not deal more damage to him than a unit of shoota boyz.
Gulliman is a force multiplier first and foremost, unlike the other primarchs, he will not destroy anything he touches. Take away his army and he is just a guy with a fancy power fist.

Should he leave Gulliman exposed enough to charge, drown him in boyz. He will take multiple turns to grind through them, which might be enough to swing the game in your favor, as 400 points of Ultramarine are doing jack.
His T6/2+/3++ is insanely durable against everything we can throw at him except smites. You should also always expect him to get up again with 3-4 wounds, otherwise you will have wasted your resources and Gulliman will remain at 100% efficiency, even if he has just 1 wound left.

TL;DR: Ignore or tarpit, kill everything else. Ultramarines are not that hard to kill.

**No wolves on Fenris**

Noob Ork question. Is it better to run 6x10 units of Orks 3x each of Slugga/Choppa combo or Shoota? Or go for less number of bigger units and then some grots to fill up the required troops slots in a battalion? I’ll be playing as Goffs usually against either tau, UM or DG

**flandarz**

Boyz benefit most from being in groups of 30. 1 Boss Nob, 19xChoppas, and 10xShootas in pretty optimal. If you take MSUs with Boyz, you're just giving away an extra attack. If you're playing Goffs, consider spending the 1 CP per Blob to make them Skarboys.

**G00fySmiley**

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Noob Ork question. Is it better to run 6x10 units of Orks 3x each of Slugga/Choppa combo or Shoota? Or go for less number of bigger units and then some grots to fill up the required troops slots in a battalion? I’ll be playing as Goffs usually against either tau, UM or DG

so... that depends on the points level.

if low points then that big unit of orks is going to be all the movement you have and objectives will be rough to grab, but in smaller units you can grab things... but with low leadership you are more likely to fail morale tests. if all you hae are 60 boys and an hq then its easy to shoot 2 targets but they are not going to run.

It also depends on the rest of your units, but if I were to only have 60 boysz in a list i would probably do 3x20

**mhalko1**

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Noob Ork question. Is it better to run 6x10 units of Orks 3x each of Slugga/Choppa combo or Shoota? Or go for less number of bigger units and then some grots to fill up the required troops slots in a battalion? I’ll be playing as Goffs usually against either tau, UM or DG

The grots help with filling cheap battalions HQ'd by shokk attack guns and weirdboys

**tneva82**

Ordered some scrapjets and dragstas so looking at making fast army list for change of pace.

Battallion:deathskull

bik mek w&sag
weirdboy

3x10 gretchin
3xmegatrakk scrapjet
3xshokkjump dragsta
7xtank busta
trukk

battallion> evil sun

deffkilla wartrike
warboss> da killa klaw, brutal but kunning

30xboyz w&10 shootas, big choppa
2x10 grots
nob w&waagh banner
10xnobs(1 power klaw and choppa, 4 big choppa and choppa, 5xtwin choppa)

bonebreaker

So. 6 buggies are tag teaming swarming with average 18 rokkits and 3 plasma weapons. If there\s something like ig infantry squad nearby charges possible as well if there\s enough left. Nobs, banner and warboss head with bonebreaka, tankbustas trying to hit targets(likely supporting the buggies to give maximum anti tank firepower). Boyz da jumped forward as well. Turn 1 max pressure. Hoping to use terrain to limit AT firepower vs buggies.

**TedNugent**

I'm surprised there has been so few lists that actually involve skarboys.

A little bit of math showed it was trivial to cram 120 in a batallion at 1000 points.

Provided you held the CP you could even call in the boys; or use a deep strike stratege or a weirdboy to launch units into the opponents DZ.

I am also not seeing literally any of the winning tournament lists using transports of any variety. Trukks seem utterly useless except as gun platforms, bonebreakas are expensive, battlewagons expensive and I don't know if they have the output or utility to justify the cost.

Most lists are spamming foot units and using deep strike-esque shenanigans rather than paying transport tax - am I mistaking this or overlooking a competitive list build that is making 3-3 or better at LVO or a similar GT style format?

**tneva82**

TedNugent wrote:
I'm surprised there has been so few lists that actually involve skarboys.

A little bit of math showed it was trivial to cram 120 in a batallion at 1000 points.

Provided you held the CP you could even call in the boys; or use a deep strike stratege or a weirdboy to launch units into the opponents DZ.

I am also not seeing literally any of the winning tournament lists using transports of any variety. Trukks seem utterly useless except as gun platforms, bonebreakas are expensive, battlewagons expensive and I don't know if they have the output or utility to justify the cost.

Most lists are spamming foot units and using deep strike-esque shenanigans rather than paying transport tax - am I mistaking this or overlooking a competitive list build that is making 3-3 or better at LVO or a similar GT style format?

Issues are: 4 CP for 120 skarboyz. Expensive. Then there's no reliable delivery method. Come on foot you get shot blown for your T3 charge. Come by deep strike and you are aiming for 58% charges and if you fail you are pretty much screwed. And 4 units of skarboyz in deep strike are whopping 12 CP...And you need very good chaff clearing for rest of your ~1000 pts to ensure you can actually land into useful things.

Also 30 evil suns will basically kill most targets ANYWAY. There's not many things that you really, really, REALLY need that S5 that 120 S4 attacks don't clear already. Trouble with boyz isn't exactly raw killing power. Knights are one good target but you don't need tons of units for that anyway and more efficient chaff clearing could easily be better anyway. Saves CP, clears chaff more efficiently for your ~2 skarboyz units to clear. For chaff clearing I would use either evil suns(8" charges) or bad moons(30 shootas shoot at one unit and then try to charge other). Both good candinates for T1 da jump. Skarboyz you will be running into chaff and what on earth is chaff that needs 120 S5 attacks to clear? Plaguebearers from hell is about only chaff I can think of where skarboyz might actually make sense as chaff clearing.

Sort of 2 skarboyz isn't 2xone unit, 3 isn't 3x as good as 1 unit etc. Diminishing returns. 2 units would be plenty for me. Then some other clans to clear chaff.

For transport orks suffer from not having good candinates for insides. Nobs, meganobs and tank bustas(losing strategems) are about only ones. Boyz are voewfully lacking as you want over 20 strong units for that +1 attacks(yes 20 gives you that but even overwatch is likely to drop 1 ork...)

**Vineheart01**

thats kinda the issue with Goff, orks dont really need that trait except against things we cant really beat even with it.

It doesnt help their shooting, it doesnt make them faster, and it doesnt make them harder to kill. It just makes them stronger in an area they usually dont need to be stronger for if played smartly.

**tneva82**

One issue where it does shine though is T8 3+ type of stuff where it makes unit more than 2x as killy as say evil sun. Knight that's been weakened will seriously worry and something like leman russ will generally melt from the charge.

But spamming them? Nah that's not that effective even if you can justify one or two units. But lack of reliable delivery method hurts. 58% is not reliable.

**An Actual Englishman**

I think a Trukk full of Nobz or Flash Gits is possibly worth considering. They can at least loot the thing when it explodes and it offers a pretense of protection from small arms fire. Where Da Jump exists and under the current disembarking rules transports don't really serve a purpose, unfortunately. Like most of our units they are between 15% and 25% overpriced.

Skarboyz are too CP hungry and offer too little to be worthwhile, as already mentioned.

With regards Boyz numbers, I think the optimum number is 2 x 30 and 2 x 10. Mob up and 40 jumping in turn 1 and 2 is no joke. I cut the second batch of 10 personally but it's a preference thing.

**tneva82**

Mobbing up you lose chance to bring them back though. Albeit not issue if you know you don't have 3CP but can be pretty nasty and demoralizing for opponent when he nearly gets unit dead and then it comes back right away!

(last came by turn 3 opponent somehow had managed to only kill few mek guns and grots for good. Bit of bad luck and when he nearly got 1 boyz unit dead they simply came back.)

**An Actual Englishman**

tneva82 wrote:
Mobbing up you lose chance to bring them back though. Albeit not issue if you know you don't have 3CP but can be pretty nasty and demoralizing for opponent when he nearly gets unit dead and then it comes back right away!

(last came by turn 3 opponent somehow had managed to only kill few mek guns and grots for good. Bit of bad luck and when he nearly got 1 boyz unit dead they simply came back.)

This is true and also a reason I only take 1 x 10 Boyz. If the enemy targets my 30 strong squad and doesn't wipe them to the man I'll be Green Tiding them right in with the other squad of 40 on T1.

**tneva82**

One candinate only runs into same issue though. One unit getting wiped out isn't that hard. 2 is much harder. With 2 units odds of at least one surviving at least partially increases a lot.

**flandarz**

I think Flash Gitz in a Trukk with Freeboota Kultur could be a really potent thing. As long as you can proc the +1, you can move em around and still hit on 4s.

**Jidmah**

You could do the very same thing with a battlewagon which offers better protection and can have a meaningful impact by itself.

IMO the only viable way to take trukks is when you are deff skulls and there is a rokkit inside and one on the trukk.

**No wolves on Fenris**

flandarz wrote:
Boyz benefit most from being in groups of 30. 1 Boss Nob, 19xChoppas, and 10xShootas in pretty optimal. If you take MSUs with Boyz, you're just giving away an extra attack. If you're playing Goffs, consider spending the 1 CP per Blob to make them Skarboys.

Didn’t realise they could mix and match weapons in the squad?

**Grimskul**

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
flandarz wrote:
Boyz benefit most from being in groups of 30. 1 Boss Nob, 19xChoppas, and 10xShootas in pretty optimal. If you take MSUs with Boyz, you're just giving away an extra attack. If you're playing Goffs, consider spending the 1 CP per Blob to make them Skarboys.

Didn’t realise they could mix and match weapons in the squad?

Yup, unlike previous editions, you can choose what gear each boy has, which is useful for giving them a little more flexibility in big mobs, since you're not likely to have all 30 survive and be in range for combat in most cases so having some shootas in the back gives you more options.

Also, regarding Skarboyz, I think it depends on your local meta, since S5 is at an important strength threshold in being able to wound T8 models on 5's. If you're against mainly Aeldari where T3 means you don't really get a benefit and at best you're getting to wound their venoms/skyweavers on 4's, then yeah it's not worth it. Against T4 armies I think wounding on 3's is ultimately worth it, which is mainly MEQ's. GEQ's with access to T8 like Guardsmen is another niche example where they can pay for their points.

**Vineheart01**

i pretty much can never justify a trukk. I really wish it either had Spiked Ram (which its MODELED WITH) or the wrecking ball wasnt a single attack.
I love that the battlewagons are a threat in their own right. Now a trukk shouldnt be at the same level of deadly but atleast capable of hurting something other than grots would be nice.
Since you cant launch the occupants anymore i dont see a point in them.