Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

tneva82 wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 koooaei wrote:
Participated in a 10 man 750pt eternal war (ca missions) tourney with this list:

Bad moons.
Souped up sag mek - warlord
Biker boss with kombiskorcha blunderbuss and pk
Wierdboy
30 shootaboyz, bc nob
2*10 grots
Dakkajet with 6 supashootas
Trukk

Out of curiosity what was the role for trukk here? Overwatch eater? Objective grabber? I would have brought rather like 2 smasha guns instead but maybe I'm missing something.

It's a bit of everything. I put grots in there. At first it was an answer to helblasters auspexing and overwatching my meganobz to death. I had 2 trukks of grots to move forward turn 2, disembark, advance and eat all those plazma for the deepstriking meganobz. But than i simply liked this combo.
Sometimes also hide a wierdboy in there turn 1. It occasionally helps with losblocks. Theoretically, it could be used for the 3d6 charge strat. It's just an utility unit. Mek gunz are nice but trukks have their advantages.

tneva82 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

You don't need to lock it into combat, that doesn't do jack anyways besides giving it another round of combat. just stay 1.0001" away from it and get your speed freeks around it - no movement for a turn and it's not terrible efficient at killing 2W models.
By far the best application for that stratagem is to arrest a single model from a nearby unit so it cannot fall back - this will protect you from shooting for a turn.

1" won't be good idea. Knights tends to be characters so all you accomplish is giving him round of shooting AND round of h2h in your turn when he heroic intervenes. Learned that the hard way

And guess idea was prevent him from falling back and shooting. Yes he'll stomp some bikes but then doesn't shoot next round. Want to face shooting+round of combat or 2 rounds of combat vs bikes?

Tneva has it right. Idea is to prevent the Knight from shooting, not restrict their movement. A Castellan is no joke in the combat phase, but they are much scarier in the shooting phase IMO.

No doubt the strat is also useful for surrounding other squads and tripointing other units also. That's certainly not in question.

I'll post my thoughts on the Kult of Speed detachment soon and allow people to critique here before I PM to you for integration on the first page Jidmah.

I have successfully 2d6" consolidated a Castellan once with my bikes and that basically won me the game (I also had my buffed wartrike, with some help in the shooting phase, bracket him). The castellan killed like 2-3 bikes in CC but was stuck.

That situation is a unicorn though. More of a fun thing that you might be able to pull off against an opponent once. Overall I don't really see the point of that detachment, it might come in handy if you really need to move up on the board I guess. Move 30", fire at full BS (Evil sunz) and then use "drive-by krumpin" to move another 30" and claim an objective/ movement block/linebreaker etc might have a niche use

if bikes in general were better that detachment would be great.
Bikes are solidly "meh" atm. They can work, but boy do they suffer when something can counter them (which sadly is autocannon type stuff so its common)

Thoughts on Vigilus Kult of Speed detachment;

Cost - 1 CP to unlock.

It gives all "Speed Freeks" units the 'KULT OF SPEED' Keyword(s) which is pretty much every fast attack choice excluding Storm Boyz, Nobz on Bikes and the Deffkilla. Note that The Warboss on Bike cannot make use of this detachment, as they lack the Speed Freek keyword.

Warlord Trait -

"Quick Ladz!" - Friendly KULT OF SPEED units within 12" of your Warlord in the morale phase automatically pass Morale tests if they Advanced in the same turn.
- Unfortunately the rules writers put "turn" instead of "battle round" hence this ability is practically useless. It only operates in your Morale phase (not your opponenets) and it's unlikely you're going to be taking a ton of casualties then anyway. Not to mention the majority of "Kult of Speed" units will be single models that can't lose any members due to morale anyway. A double fail. Don't take this.

Shiny Gubbinz -

"Skargrim's Snazztrike" - Deffkilla Wartrike only, the bearer gains +1 T and a 5++.
- T7 vs T6 can be nice and the 5++ is welcome but in reality the Cybork Body is better. The Deffkilla Wartrike tends to race up the board and get into combat ASAP. Few weapons are affected by the difference between T6 and T7 and do you really want to invest a warlord trait to make a Deffkilla T8? No, no you don't. Our codex has enough strong relics, perhaps if you take the Cybork Body on something else and want to try and make a tanky warlord it might be worth it, but consider those traits and relics you won't be taking.

Stratagems -

"Turbo Boostas" - 2CP - Use this stratagem at the start of your Movement phase. Pick a KULT OF SPEED unit from your army, if that unit Advances this phase, double that unit's Move characteristic instead of rolling a dice.
- Useful to guarantee a first turn charge. Also useful to stack with the Evil Sunz "Drive by Krumpin" stratagem to get exactly where you need to be, quickly. Allows our fastest vehicles the ability to fly across the board, which can also be useful late game to grab/contest objectives or simply keep a unit alive. Probably not worth 2CP in most game situations but it may occasionally win you the game.

"Charge through 'em!" - 2CP - Use this stratagem before a KULT OF SPEED unit from your army makes a consolidation move. That unit consolidates 2d6" instead of 3".
- Probably the best thing about this entire detachment. A 2d6" consolidation move can be huge however it can also be 2". It's very likely you'll be able to consolidate further than the standard 3", however, because the variance on the consolidation move is so vast (2"-12") there is a discrepancy between how useful this stratagem will be one use to the next. If you roll a 5"+ consolidation move it is likely you open up possibilities to tie units in combat, tri-point them, or otherwise deny the opponent movement, which can be game winning. If you roll higher still then you can ruin your opponents plans on your first turn and potentially (though this won't be obvious at the time) win the game. You'll need a large group (or 2) of Warbikers or Nob Bikers ideally, both of which are expensive units (the Nob Bikers obscenely so) which means you're investing into this stratagem. If your opponent deploys well and reads your plans, they can counter them accordingly also. It is likely this won't work against GSC unless they go first because of their deployment shenanigans.

Overall Thoughts -

For me the Kult of Speed offers 2 semi-interesting and semi-useful stratagems and that is it. Both stratagems require investment into a sub optimal unit (because most/all Speed Freek units are sub optimal), but they can allow those units to perform much better than they normally would and in some cases win you the game. The problem for me is the cost (1CP + 2CP stratagem cost) and the variance. Both stratagems can be game winning but they can also do absolutely nothing or put you in a worse position than you'd be without using them. They certainly require a skilled player to make best use.
Do not take the Warlord Trait. The rulebook ones are better.
Take the Snazztrike only if you have a very specific task for your Deffkilla that requires the extra Toughness.

E - glad to see that my thoughts are somewhat echoed with Pina and Vineheart above. Particularly as I wrote this "blind" and had no idea you had posted

Pretty much what you said.
Wartrike being T7 helps in some situations but i even stopped giving him Supa Cybork because every time he DOES take damage he just goes poof because either whats hitting him is wicked strong or i wasnt able to put something infront of him after combat and he got shot.
Ive tried the relic bike and even Bad Moonz 4++ and Supa Cybork, dude survived maybe 1 more units worth of shooting at the cost of Might is Right. Without bad moonz trait and taking Relic bike instead of Supa Cybork, he just didnt get overkilled but still died in the same number of units attacking him.
Course this doesnt help that people in my area think hes hyper deadly for some reason. He's not, he's average w/o Might is Right and pretty decent w/ it but not amazing. Only a real problem if i can manage to Fist of Gork him too.

Ive used a warbike squad with that special detachment 3 times and 2 times i didnt even get to attempt anything as an autocannon ball just vaporized them - despite KFF and painboy around - because i didnt get first turn so i couldnt trigger the -1 to hit stratagem since they havnt moved yet (still pissed how that is triggered....)

edit: before you say "deploy out of sight" you try and deploy a footprint that huge completely out of sight when the main autocannon threat is a leviathan lol

Good write-up AAE!

Vineheart: Why do you take might is right on the deffkilla? I always go with brutal but kunnin'. Might is right is slightly better assuming you don't get fists of gork off but if you do then brutal but kunnin seems a lot more viable IMO. D3+1 damage is just so much tastier than flat D3 and 7 attacks rerolling 1's is basically the same as 8 attacks. S9 or 10 isn't a huge deal, especially with rerolling wounds..

Generally im playing Bad Moonz, 70-30 shooty/assaulty. I used Might is Right because often i end up slamming into a T7 target, which wounding on 4s even with a reroll isnt very favorable. Never took Big Killa Boss for that scenario because its the same effect in the end and i get another attack while also wounding on 2s against most everything else. I usually forget Brutal but Kunnin even exists tbh lol

But this is all in the past now since i started using the supa-SAG. Supa-SAG w/o Big Killa Boss is a crime and a half.... all it took was 1 game with that + the trait to convince me i was an idiot not doing that in the past 5 games i had the supa-sag anyway. Shokk-ingly reliable anti-big-thing attack.
I either dont even run the wartrike now or if i do he's there for the aura, not his attack power.

What do you think of 5 flash gitz on a warkopta? For 233 points you have a multi-purpose unit that can deepstrike or start in the far edge of the table and move to the center (where you want to have your gitz). In addition you can use Long Uncontrolled Bursts (1CP) in the kopta, which been open-topped transfers to the gitz inside the kopta, making it it really interesting in a Freebooterz army.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Thoughts on Vigilus Kult of Speed detachment;

Cost - 1 CP to unlock.

It gives all "Speed Freeks" units the 'KULT OF SPEED' Keyword(s) which is pretty much every fast attack choice excluding Storm Boyz, Nobz on Bikes and the Deffkilla. Note that The Warboss on Bike cannot make use of this detachment, as they lack the Speed Freek keyword.

Warlord Trait -

"Quick Ladz!" - Friendly KULT OF SPEED units within 12" of your Warlord in the morale phase automatically pass Morale tests if they Advanced in the same turn.
- Unfortunately the rules writers put "turn" instead of "battle round" hence this ability is practically useless. It only operates in your Morale phase (not your opponenets) and it's unlikely you're going to be taking a ton of casualties then anyway. Not to mention the majority of "Kult of Speed" units will be single models that can't lose any members due to morale anyway. A double fail. Don't take this.

Shiny Gubbinz -

"Skargrim's Snazztrike" - Deffkilla Wartrike only, the bearer gains +1 T and a 5++.
- T7 vs T6 can be nice and the 5++ is welcome but in reality the Cybork Body is better. The Deffkilla Wartrike tends to race up the board and get into combat ASAP. Few weapons are affected by the difference between T6 and T7 and do you really want to invest a warlord trait to make a Deffkilla T8? No, no you don't. Our codex has enough strong relics, perhaps if you take the Cybork Body on something else and want to try and make a tanky warlord it might be worth it, but consider those traits and relics you won't be taking.

Stratagems -

"Turbo Boostas" - 2CP - Use this stratagem at the start of your Movement phase. Pick a KULT OF SPEED unit from your army, if that unit Advances this phase, double that unit's Move characteristic instead of rolling a dice.
- Useful to guarantee a first turn charge. Also useful to stack with the Evil Sunz "Drive by Krumpin" stratagem to get exactly where you need to be, quickly. Allows our fastest vehicles the ability to fly across the board, which can also be useful late game to grab/contest objectives or simply keep a unit alive. Probably not worth 2CP in most game situations but it may occasionally win you the game.

"Charge through 'em!" - 2CP - Use this stratagem before a KULT OF SPEED unit from your army makes a consolidation move. That unit consolidates 2d6" instead of 3".
- Probably the best thing about this entire detachment. A 2d6" consolidation move can be huge however it can also be 2". It's very likely you'll be able to consolidate further than the standard 3", however, because the variance on the consolidation move is so vast (2"-12") there is a discrepancy between how useful this stratagem will be one use to the next. If you roll a 5"+ consolidation move it is likely you open up possibilities to tie units in combat, tri-point them, or otherwise deny the opponent movement, which can be game winning. If you roll higher still then you can ruin your opponents plans on your first turn and potentially (though this won't be obvious at the time) win the game. You'll need a large group (or 2) of Warbikers or Nob Bikers ideally, both of which are expensive units (the Nob Bikers obscenely so) which means you're investing into this stratagem. If your opponent deploys well and reads your plans, they can counter them accordingly also. It is likely this won't work against GSC unless they go first because of their deployment shenanigans.

Overall Thoughts -

For me the Kult of Speed offers 2 semi-interesting and semi-useful stratagems and that is it. Both stratagems require investment into a sub optimal unit (because most/all Speed Freek units are sub optimal), but they can allow those units to perform much better than they normally would and in some cases win you the game. The problem for me is the cost (1CP + 2CP stratagem cost) and the variance. Both stratagems can be game winning but they can also do absolutely nothing or put you in a worse position than you'd be without using them. They certainly require a skilled player to make best use.
Do not take the Warlord Trait. The rulebook ones are better.
Take the Snazztrike only if you have a very specific task for your Deffkilla that requires the extra Toughness.

E - glad to see that my thoughts are somewhat echoed with Pina and Vineheart above. Particularly as I wrote this "blind" and had no idea you had posted

I disagree on wartrike w/ "Skargrim's Snazztrike" - Deffkilla Wartrike only, the bearer gains +1 T and a 5++. It with ard as nails for a T8 wartrike is not something to take lightly. suddenly when tehey do clear the chaff to shoot your sub 10 wound charagter Str 8 is now wounding on 4's, so plasma has to risk gets hot, str 4 is not wounding on 6's so most weapons can barely scratch the paint. I do agree the T6-7 is not signifigant enough of a step to be worth it... but stacking for T8 I think will do very well.

Though note I have not yet tried it more a academic guess as to it being a viable option. I will likely try it in the coming next few weeks.

Loss of other perks kinda kills that idea imo.

Deffkilla is not exactly a powerhouse. 5 S7 Ap-2 D3 damage attacks are neat, but not 120pts neat.
And his shooting doesnt exist. Its literally a pre-charge attack because its so piss poor short.

So yeah, becoming T8 is great, except you have no real power behind it.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Loss of other perks kinda kills that idea imo.

Deffkilla is not exactly a powerhouse. 5 S7 Ap-2 D3 damage attacks are neat, but not 120pts neat.
And his shooting doesnt exist. Its literally a pre-charge attack because its so piss poor short.

So yeah, becoming T8 is great, except you have no real power behind it.

his shooting is basically screen removal if you are lucky. pepper a unit screening something important and then its just enough to wipe a few remaining models in front with flamer and boomstick.

that Str7 ap-2 klaw is hitting on 2's and rerolling wounds so he tends to do work in my experience. Though the Warboss on a bike with the killa claw still does more dmg overall against things like knights.

I am optimistic T8 may be worth it, but as always until I put it on the table it is just speculation and if it preforms poorly after a few matches will retire the idea and say "cool on paper, not in practice"

I think it could be ok, but I think a more durable Wartrike would still be in Badmoonz, with TBATCB and Supa Cybork. I'll take a 4++/5+++ with T6 over T8 any day.

Buddies, how are you?

Im will play tau tomorrow at 1500 points.

I have a list with 2 detachments (evil suns and bad moons) (5+5cps) 40 grots, 60 boyz, 2 weirboyz, 1 deffkilla, 5 warbikes (1 nob) 5 koptas (3+2 koptas) and 2 dakkajets.

Do you have any advice to play with tau? what should i tend to do, and what not. Hope my ork budies could help me.

Sorry for my rusty english

snakeeater wrote:
Buddies, how are you?

Im will play tau tomorrow at 1500 points.

I have a list with 2 detachments (evil suns and bad moons) (5+5cps) 40 grots, 60 boyz, 2 weirboyz, 1 deffkilla, 5 warbikes (1 nob) 5 koptas (3+2 koptas) and 2 dakkajets.

Do you have any advice to play with tau? what should i tend to do, and what not. Hope my ork budies could help me.

Sorry for my rusty english

Just my opinion but id drop the dakkajets and grab more units that can book it across the field.

mhalko1 wrote:

snakeeater wrote:
Buddies, how are you?

Im will play tau tomorrow at 1500 points.

I have a list with 2 detachments (evil suns and bad moons) (5+5cps) 40 grots, 60 boyz, 2 weirboyz, 1 deffkilla, 5 warbikes (1 nob) 5 koptas (3+2 koptas) and 2 dakkajets.

Do you have any advice to play with tau? what should i tend to do, and what not. Hope my ork budies could help me.

Sorry for my rusty english

Just my opinion but id drop the dakkajets and grab more units that can book it across the field.

Which ones do you sugest?? I really do not know what else i could put. I have a lot of models, but my plan for the dakkajets its to shoot the firewarriors, and if needed make it shoot it twice. They are 18 shoots s6 ap-1 d1 at 4+ with dakka daka for 148 pts each and it has fly -1 to be hitted.

snakeeater wrote:

mhalko1 wrote:

snakeeater wrote:
Buddies, how are you?

Im will play tau tomorrow at 1500 points.

I have a list with 2 detachments (evil suns and bad moons) (5+5cps) 40 grots, 60 boyz, 2 weirboyz, 1 deffkilla, 5 warbikes (1 nob) 5 koptas (3+2 koptas) and 2 dakkajets.

Do you have any advice to play with tau? what should i tend to do, and what not. Hope my ork budies could help me.

Sorry for my rusty english

Just my opinion but id drop the dakkajets and grab more units that can book it across the field.

Which ones do you sugest?? I really do not know what else i could put. I have a lot of models, but my plan for the dakkajets its to shoot the firewarriors, and if needed make it shoot it twice. They are 18 shoots s6 ap-1 d1 at 4+ with dakka daka for 148 pts each and it has fly -1 to be hitted.

you could grab more troops or teleporta some dreads/BW full of boys

I don't play against Tau all that often so I can't give you any real strategies against them (other than to charge them from out of LoS).

But I wouldn't drop the dakkajets, use them (along with "long, uncontrolled bursts") to devastate his drones.

PiñaColada wrote:
I don't play against Tau all that often so I can't give you any real strategies against them (other than to charge them from out of LoS).

But I wouldn't drop the dakkajets, use them (along with "long, uncontrolled bursts") to devastate his drones.

And what will you use buddy? im short of ideas. I think thtat anything i can put he can take it out very easily... :( I think what hurts me the most its his overwatch

(sorry for my english)

Dont forget all suits except Broadsides have the "Fly" keyword too.

So Dakkajets can technically beat the snot out of crisis suits too if needed, though i'd rather go after a big drone bubble or firewarrior fortress first.

My only beef with that list is the Dakkajets are the ONLY target for anti-vehicle weapons, and theyre tissue paper. Im not sure what you could bring instead though unless you axed the bikers too (Broadsides will mulch bikers fyi). Thats only ~290pts to work with if you cut the dakkajets, not that much you could bring other than just more bikers/boyz and even with what i just said about dakkajets being tissue i dont think that'd be a better choice. Tau in general will delete boyz and bikers easily.

mhalko1 wrote:

snakeeater wrote:

mhalko1 wrote:

snakeeater wrote:
Buddies, how are you?

Im will play tau tomorrow at 1500 points.

I have a list with 2 detachments (evil suns and bad moons) (5+5cps) 40 grots, 60 boyz, 2 weirboyz, 1 deffkilla, 5 warbikes (1 nob) 5 koptas (3+2 koptas) and 2 dakkajets.

Do you have any advice to play with tau? what should i tend to do, and what not. Hope my ork budies could help me.

Sorry for my rusty english

Just my opinion but id drop the dakkajets and grab more units that can book it across the field.

Which ones do you sugest?? I really do not know what else i could put. I have a lot of models, but my plan for the dakkajets its to shoot the firewarriors, and if needed make it shoot it twice. They are 18 shoots s6 ap-1 d1 at 4+ with dakka daka for 148 pts each and it has fly -1 to be hitted.

you could grab more troops or teleporta some dreads/BW full of boys

Interesting... i will think about putting 3 dreads or the bw full of boyz (or nobs) but wont they be easy to kill on overwatch???


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Dont forget all suits except Broadsides have the "Fly" keyword too.

So Dakkajets can technically beat the snot out of crisis suits too if needed, though i'd rather go after a big drone bubble or firewarrior fortress first.

My only beef with that list is the Dakkajets are the ONLY target for anti-vehicle weapons, and theyre tissue paper. Im not sure what you could bring instead though unless you axed the bikers too (Broadsides will mulch bikers fyi)

This is what i was thinking when i choose them. This and his shooting capacity

Unless you charge a crisis blob of fusionspam i'd be surprised if a battlewagon (or bonebreaker, which is better if you do nobs) dies in overwatch. Its tough enough where the high rate of fire weapons dont wound it reliably.
Nobz, yeah, they'd get clobbered unless said wagon ate the overwatch first (remember you cant overwatch if you are in combat and unless the codex changed it and im unaware of it Tau cannot "share overwatch" multiple times either).
Which also goes into the other reason for keeping the dakkajets: there are things you do NOT want to charge. Broadsides clumped up together, huge firewarrior blobs, or fusion/plasma spam crisis suits of sizable numbers are a BIG nono with boyz/nobz to charge. Dakkajets can reliably kill most of them w/o charging.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Unless you charge a crisis blob of fusionspam i'd be surprised if a battlewagon (or bonebreaker, which is better if you do nobs) dies in overwatch. Its tough enough where the high rate of fire weapons dont wound it reliably.
Nobz, yeah, they'd get clobbered unless said wagon ate the overwatch first (remember you cant overwatch if you are in combat and unless the codex changed it and im unaware of it Tau cannot "share overwatch" multiple times either).
Which also goes into the other reason for keeping the dakkajets: there are things you do NOT want to charge. Broadsides clumped up together, huge firewarrior blobs, or fusion/plasma spam crisis suits of sizable numbers are a BIG nono with boyz/nobz to charge. Dakkajets can reliably kill most of them w/o charging.

Thanks Vineheart! you gave me some elements to think about it

I think adding in a battlewagon would be a good addition. Not sure what you would take out of the list, but having a battlewagon with some nobz in it will help force some hard choices when it comes to shooting priority

Since Tau tend to have a lot of units with the "Fly" keyword, and scary overwatch, I'd drop a mob of Boyz and bring some Traktor Guns with you. When it comes to their OW, most of their units with FTGG have weaker guns, so I'd also drop the Koptas and bring some MANz.

That's all the advice I have for ya, unfortunately.

Just a quick note - you can't use Showin' Off to shoot a Dakkajet twice, the stratagem is only for Infantry units.

For Tau I would say you want to prioritise getting rid of as many Drones as possible as early as you can, after that I would prioritise the Firewarriors and sources of Markerlights. Drones can take damage for other nearby units (Infantry and Battlesuits primarily) and massed Firewarrior combined with his other units can stop your charges dead in their tracks. Dakkajets will be great for killing Firewarrior and Drones if you go first, if you don't go first and you're not out of range they will be gone in the blink of an eye.

Got game against new player with blood angels. Relic sag did it's job blowikg up death company dred, vindicator and predator baal. Could have been better had i shot tank bustas at dred first. Now those had no vehicle target. Won 9-7. Forgot mob of evi' sxns to reserve but didn't matter. Having +1 to wound vs vehicle on sag meant relic klaw boss didn't take out big dread in one round.

Nicesag combo though rolling was over avergage.

tneva82 wrote:
Got game against new player with blood angels. Relic sag did it's job blowikg up death company dred, vindicator and predator baal. Could have been better had i shot tank bustas at dred first. Now those had no vehicle target. Won 9-7. Forgot mob of evi' sxns to reserve but didn't matter. Having +1 to wound vs vehicle on sag meant relic klaw boss didn't take out big dread in one round.

Nicesag combo though rolling was over avergage.

It's those above average rolls that really play an important psychological factor against opponents though, as they'll mainly remember the times you rolled above 10 for strength and you oneshot their centerpiece models. After something like that, I've noticed my opponents overreact in deployment based on where my SAG Mek is, and even make it a priority to try and remove him, making it easy to bait or counter-deploy what he uses to try and get at him.

tneva82 wrote:
Got game against new player with blood angels. Relic sag did it's job blowikg up death company dred, vindicator and predator baal. Could have been better had i shot tank bustas at dred first. Now those had no vehicle target. Won 9-7. Forgot mob of evi' sxns to reserve but didn't matter. Having +1 to wound vs vehicle on sag meant relic klaw boss didn't take out big dread in one round.

Nicesag combo though rolling was over avergage.

Nice. I had 3 games with one last weekend. 2/3 games he was amazing rolling S7 or higher. the 2nd game I played and the terrible one, he rolled snake eyes for strength 2 turns in a row. All 3 games and he didn't get an 11 or 12 for Strength. Still managed to wreak havoc though in the games he did well. Ran him as Deathskulls to reroll 1 hit roll and 1 wound roll and 1 damage roll. A couple times I turned a 1 damage on a Carnifex into 6 damage. My opponent was blown by this.

2 games against nids, 1 against marines. And the games against nids were before I saw the post about giving him the warlord trait for +1 to wound.



Now these 3 same games I also ran a morkanaut. (I didn't change my list at all from game 1-2, and only slightly in game 3) HE DID WORK! I was using More Dakka on him and I had maybe 3 or 4 Kustom Mega Zappa Hits a Turn thanks to 5+ guaranteed hitting. Plus him being Deathskulls really helped. Granted having big bug targets helped his output as I rerolled a 1 damage on overwatch on the Swarmlord into a 6.

Hell i HAVNT gotten an 11/12 with my supa sag in a game yet, but my friends know what it does if i do and they still tend to avoid the SAG at all costs.
Even had one game where my opponent deepstriked two assault marines to the side of me (15" away from the SAG thanks to grot screens) to get rid of it. Ended up doing Green Tide on one of my boyz squads to counter that play, but it was hilarious to see him dedicate so much to taking out that model.
if it wasnt my warlord i probably would have just let him take it. No objective under him and only vehicle still alive was a 1w Leviathan that had a Morkanaut infront of it anyway. But gotta save da boss!

Had several times where i rolled boxcars in pre-8th but not in 8th. My luck refuses to roll it now that it works on 2 die results instead of 1 lol