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That sounds about right for 1000 pts.

60 boyz=450 pts or so, 30 grots 90. warboss, big mek, weirdboy are clocking around 200 iirc. 10 lootas 170. Battlewagons 140 pts.

=1050. Maybe bit saved with characters. As flowchart is banned here don't recall big mek price off the head.

If you go this route then 2 start collecting boxes could be useful. Boyz+nob box there so for smallish extra price you get dreadnought. Not maybe best units but two of those from DS doing 8" charge with 4 CCW aren't worst of things if you can clear the screens in advance.

Plus couple painboys though not fan of those.

Starting Orks? Assuming you have a Codex/Index?

Starting point for Orks would be Boyz. Shoota or Slugga doesn’t matter at the start - mix them in a unit if you like. How many depends on how keen you are to paint, but green spray paint, Clan colour and metal lets you play any number fast. Gretchin provide a cheap Troops option, don’t worry about the Runtherd.

HQ basics would be choppy Warboss, sneaky Wierdboy or cheap Big Mek. Relics can add choppy-ness, sneaky-ness or shooty-ness to taste.

40 Boyz, 20 Grotz and two Warboss Battalion comes in at about 500 pts.

From there, the ‘Ooniverse is your Waaagh! Enjoy :-)

Runtherd comes handy when you have loota bomb and want like 60+ grots. If all are in 10 strong units that opens up lots of potential for enemy to use selective targeting and T1 charge potentials as it's hard to provide screen to multiple direction AND multiple layers with 10 strong units. 30 strong grot units ensure casualty removal removes that issue but then morale starts to be an issue.

Not fan of 40 boyz. Sounds like 30+10 for mobbing up but not fan of that as only unit. Removes option from endless tide. 30 orks coming back is lot scarier than ~13 orks left from the 40 mob and 40 orks in one unit is overkill anyway.

Oh and rather than 2 warbosses I would go for warboss+weirdboy. Cheaper, da jump(are you going to footslog that mob and be shot while at it?) and then smites. I would rather have 2 weirdboys rather than 2 warbosses. Weirdboys are good.

My winning small point game list is:
Biker boss (index)
Ssag mek
Wierdboy
30 boyz
2x10 grots
Than add anything you really want. I like to have a trukk to run a squad of grots. Maybe a plane or some meganobz. You can go anywhere from this base. The only thing to consider atm is biker boss since he's index only. You might want to run a regular footslogging boss but he's so much worse than a biker version that i'm thinking of running something else instead. Maybe badrukk. However, having a boss can be handy for morale and possible charge after advance for the boyz. It's not mandatory though.

regarding Deffdreads so have they worked fine for me.
I teleport 3 with 1 Kustom mega-blasta (index option) and the rest CC each and have them DEATHSKULLS. Very good use for the kulture in both shooting and CC.

I usually run 10 model Grot units myself. If you layer and interweave them right (remember, they can be up to 2 inches apart from each other), you shouldn't have anymore issues with selective targeting and charges than you should with 30 model squads. Saves me 40+ points on that Runtherd and allows me to Da Jump some of them to Objectives without opening my Lootas up to being wiped as badly.

Yeah, Deffdreadz ain't bad. Just ain't at Gork levels. With that setup, even with Deathskullz rerolls, you'll be lucky to get 2 hits with the KMB a shooting phase. Personally, I think you'd probably be better off with Twin Shootas (4 on one or two Dreads), to clear screening units, then use the CC Dread (with 4 Saws/Klaws) to attack whatever they were protecting. You generally have better options (like Lootas and Mek Gunz) for dealing with targets the KMB is good against.

Umm that screen clearing isn't going to do much. You shoot after you have teleported so even if you kill the screen the juicy target there is safely further away so your range is waaaaay too big for reliable charge.

I dunno. You can fairly reliably get 11+ inches with Ramming Speed+'Ere We Go+Evil Sunz (somewhere around 60-70%).

Even so, yeah. It'll be tough. Still probably better than trying to rely on 3 KMBs to take anything down.

Well that's one...

And besides with all the fight again things etc screens are generally well ahead especially on turn 2. They don't need to block just DS but also charge, wipe, consolidiate, pile again and trap into h2h with no falling back. You don't get that if you are sitting right behind the screen.

I did say "one" in my original. 2 Dreadz clear screens with 4 Twin Shootas. 1 with 4 Klaws/Saws handles the charge.

And sure. But you also gotta make sure your screens aren't letting Flyers park on the other side of them. About 4 inches of space between your screen and the unit they're protecting, right? Enough to stop pile-on, but not enough so a Dakka Jet can park between the screen and the target.

So, maybe 13-14 inches is what you'll be looking for on your charge. Not quite as "reliable" since that's more like a 40-50% chance, but still decent.

im assuming you mean big shootas not twin shootas.
75pts for 12 S5 shots doesnt seem a very good investment to me at orky BS. A squad of bareboned bikers is 69pts and fire 18 S5 shots, have the speed to not need the deepstrike, and only slightly easier to kill given toughness difference.

That's what I mean, yeah. So many Shootas...

In any case, my argument isn't that it's a good investment. Just a better one than a KMB Dredd. 91 pts for 4 S8 shots seems like a significantly worse investment than 75 for 12 S5 shots.

Nora wrote:
regarding Deffdreads so have they worked fine for me.
I teleport 3 with 1 Kustom mega-blasta (index option) and the rest CC each and have them DEATHSKULLS. Very good use for the kulture in both shooting and CC.

Now if they are all individual once they deploy would each one be able to make use of the DS trait? or would that still apply to the unit as a whole?

Each one gets to use it, cuz they count as separate units once deployed.

 flandarz wrote:
Each one gets to use it, cuz they count as separate units once deployed.

thats what i thought

 JNAProductions wrote:
Okay. What's a good starting point for Orks?

Let's say I wanted to start small, around 500-1,000 points.

Good starting point for that point range is to build a basic battalion.

I would suggest the following;

Warboss powerklaw squig and kustom shoota
Weirdboy
Mob of 30 Boyz powerklaw nob
Mob of 10 boyz nob with big Choppa
10 gretchin

That is 470pts, you can add a couple of other units and likely hit 1k quickly e.g. 15 lootas + another unit of 30 Boyz + 10 more gretchin.
Mob up the 10+30 Boyz first turn.

mhalko1 wrote:
Killa kans are for sure! how overcosted are dreads? I don't think the mork/gork are overcosted at all really.They have been winning me games lately.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also created an article in general when I was curious about individual model shooting output. So far outside of warlord and other fw titans, the stompa is sitting at the top at 219 total damage potential.

Even with this, others in the post are talking about how bad it is, which is true but it could be gw's "explanation" for it's insane points cost.

Mork/Gork are still over priced. Compare them to their closest competition, Imperial Knights. Which is better? Would you rather have a Castellan or 2 Gorkanauts? I know which one is better.

As for your Stompa comments. Yes theoretically the Stompa can dish out a lot of damage, but what is its AVERAGE damage? Its got basically 5 Big shootas for 15 shots which is 5 hits and 2.5 6s for another .88 hit so lets say 6 hits. The Skorcha will be out of range basically every turn but on average that is 3.5 hits, The Supa Gatler which averages 6D6 shots which is 21 shots for 7 actual hits and 3.5 rerolls for about 1 more so lets say 8 hits overall, Supa rokkit which averages 1 hit a turn, and finally the deff Kannon which averages 3 D6 shots for 10.5 shots on average and about 4 hits a turn.

So you have

6 S5 hits
3.5 S5 -1 AP hits
8 S7 -2 AP hits
1 S8 -3 D6 dmg hits
and 4 S10 -4 AP D6 Dmg hits.

Against a Leman Russ your Big Shootas will do 2 wounds which has a 2/3 chance to save so .66dmg. The Skorcha does about .55 dmg. The Gatler does about 2 damage the Super Rokkit hasa 50% chance to wound and a 5/6th chance to go through and do 3.5 dmg so about 1.6 dmg and the Deff Kannon does 3 wounds which go through for 10.5 dmg

All told? 15.31 dmg on average Vs a Leman Russ, upgrade that to a model with an invuln and that damage goes drastically down....like against a Castellan which routinely has a 3+ save, in that case the damage is about 3 .

So max damage possible is 219, but the AVERAGE is 15 against a T8 vehicle with 3+ save. So theoretically a Stompa can kill a Warlord titan in 1 round of shooting, but realistically it will get laughed at and then violently explode.

I think that's less about the Gork/Mork being overcosted and more about the Castellan being undercosted. And the Castellan is a lot more specialized than the Gork/Mork too. But I agree that our "Titans" need some buffing. A decent Invuln would be tits.

SemperMortis wrote:

Mork/Gork are still over priced. Compare them to their closest competition, Imperial Knights. Which is better? Would you rather have a Castellan or 2 Gorkanauts? I know which one is better.

Comparing to the absolute top isn't neccessarily most sensible ideas. You want more of broken stuff?-) Maybe issue is with the imperial castellan(chaos castellan btw isn't causing nearly as much trouble) rather than gork/mork?

How good do those do against other comparable units?

And what's with "big shoota vs leman russ" talks? You aren't shooting big shootas vs leman russ unless leman russ is literally only target you have. Stompa has plenty of issues but big shoota firing vs leman russ being inefficient is hardly it. Right weapon for right target. Guns shouldn't be good against every target type or if it is pay premium for it.

Humour me, my gargantuan squiggoth came in today and I'm now super tempted to run it at a local tournament at my FLGS next weekend.
I'm aware that it's probably not the most competitive choice but want to give it a shot anyway, does anyone have advice on running one?
I've got a few ideas for how I'll run it. Currently I'm planning to give it 2 big zzappas and maximum amount of big shootas.
I'll be running it in a supreme command so it can get access to a clan trait. I'm debating between snakebites, freebootas, and deathskulls. Snakebites for the 6+ FNP which would give it an expected extra 5-6 wounds, Freebootas is a choice more dependent on the rest of the army, and Deathskulls to better capitalise on the big zappas.
Planning to chuck a Big Mek with KFF inside of it but not 100% sure what I'll shove inside. Contemplating tankbustas but they might be redundant with an obligatory unit of lootas on the table as well. Any thoughts?

If you chuck in KFF inside I would skip the deathskull then. You are giving up half the trait(which in the long run averages same to snakebite though snakebite is more gradual)

Tank bustas could be nice for dealing with tougher targets that lootas struggle with. Alternatively basic nobz as assault punch? You want to get there anyway.

Castellan is underpriced as gak. Comparing anything to it is unfair. Even if the stompa and the castellan swapped prices i guarantee the castellan would still see play while the stompa probably wouldnt (double gorks is already seen)

tneva82 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

Mork/Gork are still over priced. Compare them to their closest competition, Imperial Knights. Which is better? Would you rather have a Castellan or 2 Gorkanauts? I know which one is better.

Comparing to the absolute top isn't neccessarily most sensible ideas. You want more of broken stuff?-) Maybe issue is with the imperial castellan(chaos castellan btw isn't causing nearly as much trouble) rather than gork/mork?

How good do those do against other comparable units?

And what's with "big shoota vs leman russ" talks? You aren't shooting big shootas vs leman russ unless leman russ is literally only target you have. Stompa has plenty of issues but big shoota firing vs leman russ being inefficient is hardly it. Right weapon for right target. Guns shouldn't be good against every target type or if it is pay premium for it.

The Castellan is only broken when you have the loyal 32 with it giving it a huge CP battery. The fact is that Gorkanauts/Morkanauts cost almost as much as regular knights but aren't nearly as good as them in any fashion.

The Stompa comparison was EVERY stompa gun not just the Big shootas. My point was that even when you stack the deck and fire EVERY available gun at a vehicle it still can barely kill it, against armies with -1 to hit the Stompa is basically fething useless in the shooting phase. You could DOUBLE the dakka of a Stompa and it still wouldn't be that great for the cost, and that is the issue. Team it with its massive price and its complete lack of access to stratagems and you realize that for yet another edition the Codex Stompa isn't worth fielding. Come to think of it....has the Stompa EVER been worth fielding? I mean the Codex Stompa mind you, not the FW variants.

Theres just so many unfair comparisons between knights and stompas. The only upside stompas have over knights is they are technically stronger in melee, but being stronger than a knight on an individual attack basis is kinda pointless.

Knight w/ gauntlet hits on 4/5/6's with 4 attacks at S16 AP4 6D with the added bonus of throwing the vehicle/monster it killed.
Stompa hits on 3/4/5/6's with 6/5/4/3 attacks at S20 AP5 6D, basically trading the vehicle/monster throw for not having a -1 to hit.

Who cares about S20? Is there a single T9 model in the game still? All i knew of in older editions got docked down to T8. Not to mention that 4th wound chart is bs and shouldnt exist, its basically dead once it hits 10 wounds as it cant do anything anymore.

Then of course the stompa's main gun is completely random shots and can potentially self-destroy turn1 so we cant use it again.

I Just had the worst game in recorded history, 6 '1's on 13 damage dice. 8 '1' and '2's on smashaguns D3 shots and so on...
I wonder, as you do not remember all the hits and misses, but you remember those important dice rolls, is there a way to have a higher probability to hit higher damage? Should I use a single specific dice to roll damages ? Would that help the statistics?

Only if that's loaded dice or seriously flawed one which amounts to same thing so you have dice that roll more 6's than it should. And doing either intentionally would be pretty much flat out cheating. Even if you didn't intentionally buy loaded dice but find out your dice is damaged so that it rolls more 6's...Well is that really fair play?

What you *should* do is paint/buy blue dice. Cuz it's da luckiest.

 flandarz wrote:
What you *should* do is paint/buy blue dice. Cuz it's da luckiest.

Or even better, purple dice, since only the sneakiest Ork gitz can see em, so you can tell him what the "results" are

Played a great game today against a mechanicus player who brought along a knight. Turn 1 he dumped his entire army into killing my mek gunz....and failed, the dice gods were DEFINITELY not in his favor.

Here is the funny part though, I bum rushed a Bonecrusher into his dakkaline and managed to kill one of those Robot walkers they have and the following turn i damaged another one but he killed it...and heres the best part, Rolled Explode, did 6 damage to the knight, killed 2 of his HQs, wiped out an infantry squad, finished off 2 more of those robots and only cost me 3 boyz

But I will say this, Overwatch needs to be nerfed, I tried assaulting his damaged knight with 4 warbikers which all died, then with 8 boyz and a nob all died, 3 Scrapjets, he killed the first in overwatch, took the 2nd down to 1 wound which then failed its charge and then took the 3rd down to 3 wounds but managed to kill the knight finally by using the Mortal wound 3D6 charge stratagem.

Yes I know that is uncommon but jesus christ they need to change overwatch. You get 1 overwatch and that is it, getting to shoot 5 different times in the assault phase is ridiculous.

Which 'mortal wound 3d6 strategem' are you talking about; Ramming speed perhaps?

I fielded my Scrapjets for the first time yesterday and really like them. They go down easily but pack a nice punch in both shooting and melee.