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Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Yeah no other 3d6 charges in ork codex let alone ones that cause mortals. Nice to get those bonebreakas into combat from DS or 1st turn especially as they can't reroll charge rolls.

Scrapjets are fun. Some point reduction and they would be great. I have 3 of them. Need to finish painting them.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in nl
Dakka Veteran





Netherlands

Never noticed the Bonebreaker does not have 'ere we go. That makes the strategem almost a must on longer charges.

Found a nice new 'first turn charge' method yesterday during a good game. I had a Chinork filled with 10 nobz with kustom shootas (40 shots in a transport which moves 16"/24" is awesome!). When I was fed up with my opponents Eldar infantry I charged the Dark reaprrs besides it with my Chinork. Obviously it was destroyed. The nobz jumped out and charged the Reapers and some more infantry besides. This gave them an effective 16+2d6" charge range. Of course it won't always work. But the look on your opponent's face is priceless.

Not sure if this is allowed when the Chinork has advanced. Technically they are no longer passengers of the transport and this have not advanced themselves. Might be pushing it a bit though.

   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





What do you mean obviously? Even dark reapers shouldn't obviously get destroyed. Chinork isn't toughest thing in the world but it's not THAT weak unless opponent roll's 6's like god.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Douglasville, GA

I don't have a Knights Codex, so I'm unsure on whether or not the Gork/Mork are *actually* worse than other Knights. Only Knights I really see played are Castellans and Gallants (and maybe Dragoons, I guess?). Damage, survivability, and utility-wise:are Gorks and Morks actually *that* much overpriced than other Knight equivalents? Of the two, I tend to prefer the former, because we already have so many options for dealing with Heavies and Super Heavies, and the Gork has more anti-chaff. But I *do* like that Morks can take KFFs, making them pretty durable buffers.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 flandarz wrote:
I don't have a Knights Codex, so I'm unsure on whether or not the Gork/Mork are *actually* worse than other Knights. Only Knights I really see played are Castellans and Gallants (and maybe Dragoons, I guess?). Damage, survivability, and utility-wise:are Gorks and Morks actually *that* much overpriced than other Knight equivalents? Of the two, I tend to prefer the former, because we already have so many options for dealing with Heavies and Super Heavies, and the Gork has more anti-chaff. But I *do* like that Morks can take KFFs, making them pretty durable buffers.


Basic Knight Errant: 409pts (Given Ironstorm because I like it and it makes it almost exactly 100pts more) T8 3+ save 5+ invuln 24 wounds.
Morkanaut: 310pts (Given KFF), T8 3+ save 5+ invuln 18 wounds. So its got 25% less wounds then the Knight Errant.

Knight is 3+ BS the Mork is 5+ The Knight has A Therman cannon, IS Missile Pod and a borderline useless Heavy stubber. The Mork has 2 Rokkitz, 2 Twin Big Shootas, a KMB and a KMZ. The KMZ averages 6 shots and about 2 hits even with Dakkax3, the Rokkitz average .66 hits and the KMB averages .333 hits, Vs the Knight that means 1 Zap wounds, .33 rokkitz wounds, .167 KMB wounds. The Knight gets 5+ save against all of these thanks to its built in invuln so the Zap averages .67 chance to inflict damage, the Rokkitz are .22 and the KMB is .11ish. (Ignoring the easy ability to get a 4+ and even a 3+ invuln with the knight). So you have a .78 chance to inflict D6 damage and a .22 chance to inflict 3 damage. The Knight Errant has D6 shots with its Thermal cannon, so 3.5 average, hitting on 3s so 2.3ish hits This gun is S9 so it wounds on 3s as well so that is 1.5ish chance to wound and the Mork has a 5+ invuln so 1 wound WILL go through which inflicts D6 damage OR 2D6 taking the highest if at half range. The Stubber does meh and the Ironstorm which I added for fun is meh as well, but for fun it averages 3.5 shots 2.3ish hits, .8ish wounds with a 4+ save its .4 chance to damage for 2 flat damage.

In CC the knight is better since it has a Reaper Chainsword which has a flat 6 damage as opposed to the Mork which as D6 and both are WS3+ The Morkanaut could swing 4 attacks, averages 2.66 hits, wounding on 3s is 1.8ish wounds so 1.8 x 3.5 = 6.3 as opposed to the Knight which will be doing 1.6x6 for 10.8

So breaking it down, the Knight Errant is 100pts more but this gives them better ballistic skill, better ranged weaponry with that BS, a better Close combat weapon, more wounds and access to a number of stratagems which make it absolutely devastating OR twice as durable.

And the kicker, the worst part, the Knight Errant isn't considered good, its the Castellan and 1-2 others that are the ones people take which smoke check the Errant.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Douglasville, GA

Well, if we really want to compare them, we have to "even out" the points. Which would basically be 3 Errants vs 4 Morks. More or less. I'll just multiply some of these numbers by 3 and 4.

Errants: 72 Wounds (between the 3 of them)
Morks: 72 Wounds (between the 4 of them)

Errants: 3.00 chance to inflict D6 damage, 1.2 chance to inflict 2 Damage
Morks: 3.12 chance to inflict D6 Damage, 0.88 chance to inflict 3 Damage

Errants: 4.33 chance to inflict 6 Damage
Morks: 8.76 chance to inflict D6 Damage

I don't have the Codex, but I *did* check Battlescribe (I know, bad habit, but it was the best option I had), and the Knight Errant's Strength (with its weapon) is 2 less than is needed to get a 2+ to Wound, while the Mork gets to Wound on a 2+ against it. The Mork also has better AP-, so while it gets to make a 6+ Save, the Knight cannot Save against its Klaw.

Judging from all this, though, it seems that "point for point" the Errant and the Morkanaut are roughly equal. But I *would* still love some nice Strats for the Nauts, and having some wargear options for them would be dope.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Before you say it: yeah, I know you can't field 4 Morks (rule of 3). This is just a point for point comparison of the two.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/04/29 00:47:57


 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Strats are the big one. Lots of absolutely rude knight strats while all the nauts' really have going for it is a practically guaranteed charge (3D6 with 'Ere We Go is pretty hard to fail).

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 flandarz wrote:
Well, if we really want to compare them, we have to "even out" the points. Which would basically be 3 Errants vs 4 Morks. More or less. I'll just multiply some of these numbers by 3 and 4.

Errants: 72 Wounds (between the 3 of them)
Morks: 72 Wounds (between the 4 of them)

Errants: 3.00 chance to inflict D6 damage, 1.2 chance to inflict 2 Damage
Morks: 3.12 chance to inflict D6 Damage, 0.88 chance to inflict 3 Damage

Errants: 4.33 chance to inflict 6 Damage
Morks: 8.76 chance to inflict D6 Damage

I don't have the Codex, but I *did* check Battlescribe (I know, bad habit, but it was the best option I had), and the Knight Errant's Strength (with its weapon) is 2 less than is needed to get a 2+ to Wound, while the Mork gets to Wound on a 2+ against it. The Mork also has better AP-, so while it gets to make a 6+ Save, the Knight cannot Save against its Klaw.

Judging from all this, though, it seems that "point for point" the Errant and the Morkanaut are roughly equal. But I *would* still love some nice Strats for the Nauts, and having some wargear options for them would be dope.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Before you say it: yeah, I know you can't field 4 Morks (rule of 3). This is just a point for point comparison of the two.


LOL, appreciate the math hammering. You didn't include the Thermal Cannon's 2D6 rule though, and if we are counting the KMB as in range the chances are the Thermal will be at half range. And the most important part, the Knight Errant is considered crap and isn't taken Im too tired to break out all the math hammer but if you want to, go compare it to the Castellan or the FW version everyone takes.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Douglasville, GA

Oh, I know. I was just running the numbers you had. And yeah, I remembered it. Just figured like 4.2 average damage wasn't much more than 3.5, so I let it stand at "D6".

Yeah, I know Castellans are gross. Just pointing out that Gorks/Morks ain't too bad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Like, to me, there's a difference between "crap" and "worse than other options". A Stompa is crap. Nob Bikers are just worse than your other options.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/29 01:30:35


 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Errant is also one of the worst ones even on questors. Gallant, warden and crusader better ones. And top missiles are mostly just point sink

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

tneva82 wrote:
Errant is also one of the worst ones even on questors. Gallant, warden and crusader better ones. And top missiles are mostly just point sink


To be fair, against a Gork/Mork, the Errant is probably the second or third best Questoris. DEFINITELY behind the Crusader, maybe behind the Paladin, but a lot better than the Warden.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Are we talking about list tailoring or overall quality assesment? If tailoring i can say castellan is worthless and throw like 200 grots vs it. And there are units that while good might make even stompa look good. Does it make stompa good?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/29 05:54:31


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

tneva82 wrote:
Are we talking about list tailoring or overall quality assesment? If tailoring i can say castellan is worthless and throw like 200 grots vs it. And there are units that while good might make even stompa look good. Does it make stompa good?


What units make a Stompa look good? Legitimate question here.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Well I'm struggling to come up with good ideas but not that cheap anti-infantry units could be good one. Anti-infantry they would struggle to hurt and not being cheap number advantage isn't too bad.

Obelisk? You suffer ~5 wounds by the ~2.4 obelisk you face point to point. Get into combat(24" range, 8" move on obelisk) and one dies quickly.

Albeit is that good normally good unit is another thing.

Ghost arks are getting some use and 8 of those(costs more than stompa) average 4 wounds. Albeit chasing all of those could be tough one.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/29 14:17:44


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Douglasville, GA

Only instance I can think of for a Stompa being "good" would be against a pure Grey Knights list with no AT. And even then, it would probably struggle.
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




Against a burna boyz horde, backed up by squigbuggies!
   
Made in nl
Regular Dakkanaut




 flandarz wrote:
Only instance I can think of for a Stompa being "good" would be against a pure Grey Knights list with no AT. And even then, it would probably struggle.


Well it's great for LoS blocking...
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






PiƱaColada wrote:
Against a burna boyz horde, backed up by squigbuggies!

I actually did the math on the squig buggies... They are roughly twice as efficient at shooting any possible target than the stompa...

The mek shop is a clear winner though.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

That just shows how laughable it is if something that is considered overpriced is twice as points effective than a stompa lol

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Roarin' Runtherd




 Jidmah wrote:
PiƱaColada wrote:
Against a burna boyz horde, backed up by squigbuggies!

I actually did the math on the squig buggies... They are roughly twice as efficient at shooting any possible target than the stompa...

The mek shop is a clear winner though.


This is legit proof that the stomps is pure garbage. I tried a squigbuggy out in a game, it survived the whole game, but only because my opponent saw no need to fire a single shot at the thing, it killed a sister and put a wound in a vehicle. It has not seen the table since.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Hypothetical here. If you charged a knight with a gorkanaut. Which profile are you going to use? 6 attacks hitting on 3's wounding on 2's with d6 damage into his 5++. Or 18 attacks hitting on 3's wounding on 4's, still needing his 5++ and doing 2 damage each? I always think about this scenario because every save he makes hurts more when a d6 damage gets stopped but you also could roll a 1 or 2 for damage. but wounding on 4s is a lot worse then 2s.

I think i'd be leaning towards the 18 swipe attacks.


Edit: Just ran it through the Ghostlords dice probability. The 18 attacks has better average damage output. (barely) Anything with and invulnerable save is going to be better off making more attacks against. Make me think the other profile might need a slight buff.

The 6 attacks do better average damage output vs a landraider for example.



I also ran it for a Morkanaut shooting at it twice before charging (using first profile still and the shoot twice strat). After both shooting and charging it the Mork averages 15.16 damage. so 15/24 wounds. I couldn't add in DDD triggering on 5's or the DS trait rerolling 1 die each for hit/wound/damage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay the rumored change to Mob up was true. it now only affects Boys units.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2019/04/29 16:22:26


 
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Douglasville, GA

I think if you go Deathskullz, you'll want to use the D6 profile. Anything else? Use the 2 damage profile.
   
Made in us
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






lame... mob up for boys only kinda sucks for loota bomb but i guess it could have been worse. I do hope the revisit the new buggie costs in chapter approved.

I am pretty stoked at no more 3++ on castellans makes em 1/6 more deal-with-able

10000 points 7000
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 G00fySmiley wrote:
lame... mob up for boys only kinda sucks for loota bomb but i guess it could have been worse. I do hope the revisit the new buggie costs in chapter approved.

I am pretty stoked at no more 3++ on castellans makes em 1/6 more deal-with-able


Combined with their price increase!
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Mob up nerfed also with relation to deep strike near non deep strike unit.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Fists of Gork can now be applied before Da jump and charge.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Loota weapon also nerfed. Now it's roll each time you shoot so shoot again can't rely on that 3 anymore.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Interesting, Supa-Lobbas can target out of line of sight now....
Gargsquig is pleased with that one he is

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in no
Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna






Best FAQ ever IMHO.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

Knights only get a 5++ in CC with a relic.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
 
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