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2019/05/16 20:35:28
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ)
What I'm sort of left wondering is that if someone is a real stickler for RAW, then is the SSAG truly allowed to use the "roll strength before choosing target buff"? Technically speaking the vigilus defiant FAQ didn't update with this new sentence (there doesn't even seem to be a vigilus defiant FAQ).
Basically, logically speaking it should get that buff as well since they're identical weapons save for amount of shots, but the ork FAQ only mentions the non-relic version obviously
2019/05/17 07:18:25
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ)
Still, I strongly believe that the purpose of the FAQ is the same as with the lootas. That's to state that EACH time they shoot they have the go through the random values. So, no shooting twice using the same strenght or number of shoots.
As I read it, the FAQ states that you have to roll for strenght, it does not answer "when" it answers "what". Therefore I understand that the normal chain of events should not be modified as it does not explicitly says so.
Soooo, as I see it is a "nerf" rather than a buff. Definitely not a snowfleak.
2019/05/17 11:58:04
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ)
The two squads of 30 grots will be buffed by the KFF mek, painboy and waaagh banner. The painboy will have the snakebite WLT so not only do the grots have a 5++ 6+FNP BS3+ and WS3+ theyre also fearless.
The warbikes (converted cyboars)will be super maneuverable and a tiny bit more survivable thanks to the 6+FNP and supporting deffkilla wartrike. I've given the wartrike the +1 T and 5++ relic which combo'd with the 6+FNP should keep him around for a bit. I was torn between giving him that relic and the buzz bomb due to his ability to get into range fast but have decided to give that to the waaaagh banner nob instead. Its a autohit grenade so could really cause problems in overwatch.Anyone tried running snakebites?
2019/05/17 12:27:32
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ)
CaptainO wrote: My mates and I are having a 40k weekend, couple of games all at 1500 points. Its going to be a relaxed affair so I'm going to try something different.
I'm going to run a Snakebite kult of speed brigade detachment:
The two squads of 30 grots will be buffed by the KFF mek, painboy and waaagh banner. The painboy will have the snakebite WLT so not only do the grots have a 5++ 6+FNP BS3+ and WS3+ theyre also fearless.
The warbikes (converted cyboars)will be super maneuverable and a tiny bit more survivable thanks to the 6+FNP and supporting deffkilla wartrike. I've given the wartrike the +1 T and 5++ relic which combo'd with the 6+FNP should keep him around for a bit. I was torn between giving him that relic and the buzz bomb due to his ability to get into range fast but have decided to give that to the waaaagh banner nob instead. Its a autohit grenade so could really cause problems in overwatch.Anyone tried running snakebites?
Let us know, how it worked out! Sadly I don't think the grots benefit from the banner... It is friendly CLAN units only, as far as I remeber, isn't it?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/17 12:49:58
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like soup. Now you put soup in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put soup into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now soup can flow or it can crash. Be soup, my friend.
2019/05/17 13:15:44
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ)
Grots are still a Clan tag, they just dont get kultures.
They are part of that clan for all rules and purposes. They would benefit from <clan> auras and can even trigger Freeboota +1 aura, just cant utilize it themselves.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2019/05/17 13:42:33
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ)
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like soup. Now you put soup in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put soup into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now soup can flow or it can crash. Be soup, my friend.
2019/05/17 13:56:46
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ)
Have somebody conducted thorough mathhammer for Orkz' gunlines to find out who is better now that we have more random and less mobbedup Lootas: Freeboterz or Bad Moon?
I have tried several approaches, considered math expectation and also tried to calculate every different scenario. I kinda gave up.
My test-roster consisted of 15 lootas, Morkanaut, 3 SAG (one of them Relic), 15 tankbustas in tellyporta with 3 bombsquigs, 60 shoota boyz.
Results are very mixed up, but what I can say is pretty obvious: that Bad Moonz are better at concentrating power and better against opponents with -2 or better penalty to hit, but Freebooterz give much more smoother, yet a bit unpredictable, power surge.
I think against MSU opponents Freebooterz yield better results.
Against deathstar opponents showin' off with bad moonz is better.
I think the involvement of Gretchins into Freeboterz kultur might give it an edge (in a singular test game it was Trakktor kannon who finished the squad which gave the boost to my army).
Feel a bit torn up, which kultur to choose in the upcoming tournament. 30 shots from Tankbustas are very juicy, and ability to double-shoot from both relic shocka and morkanaut/tankboostas is hard to give up, but Freeboterz save so many CP and give only a slightly less shots overall.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/17 14:02:01
2019/05/17 16:59:44
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ)
I prefer Freebooters myself because it saves you time on all the Bad Moon rerolls. Furthermore the 'Freebooters minigame' you'll be playing each turn is fun (and sometimes annoyingly frustrating). With small armies (750 or 1000 pts) it can be quite hard to get the bubble off though. Another thing which speaks for freebooters is that their bonus also works in close-combat.
Don't know about the math, but I mostly play freebooters because it is a little quicker and more fun.
For MSU lists you might also want to consider deafskulls. I now play a list with many buggies and small units and they benefit a lot from their clan traits. Making it even worthwhile to include (combi-)rokkits in your lists.
flandarz wrote: Snakebitez already gives you a 6+++. The Painboy is kinda redundant.
Painboy gives the grots 6+ fnp
Automatically Appended Next Post: The grots are there to act as a tar pit. I never bother with pistol attacks but since they’ll be hitting on 3+ in the shooting phase and again in the fight phase I’m hoping they’ll chip away at whoever’s stuck with them.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/18 18:11:11
2019/05/18 19:30:11
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ)
seriously taking a painboy for grots to get a 6+++? They dont get it for Grot Shield stratagem since the model is slain not wounded.
Its a bit of a debate if the painboy is even worth it for boyz.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2019/05/18 20:02:18
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ)
As I said this is a friendly game weekend. I just want to try out some new things. I’ll be running two squads of 30 grots who will be fearless thanks to the snakebite wlt on the painboy. With the number of grots around him he’ll come close to making his points back before lifting a finger.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ok not his points back but around half (12 fnp from 60 grots before the two squads are dead)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/18 21:17:04
2019/05/18 22:30:54
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ)
If you're just doing it for funsies, then I won't stand in your way. Just bear in mind that this is the "competitive" thread. So, we're giving you competitive advice. If you're looking to bank in the SBWLT, you might want to consider bringing some Killa Kanz along too. Maybe drop the Nobs and bring them along. Between the KFF and the WLT, they might actually put in some work.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, wanna point out that although your Grots will be hitting on 3+ in the shooting phase and 4+ in the fighting phase, the S3 of their guns and the S2 of their attacks means you'll be getting, at best, a 4+ to Wound at range and a 5+ to Wound in CC. Not worth it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/19 00:09:22
2019/05/19 07:49:54
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ)
TACTICAL OBJECTIVES: Craftworlds
REFINED STRATEGIES: Advance, Domination, Blood and Guts, Orders Received
My roster was:
Spoiler:
Dawn of war, mission with intel characters.
I got first turn, and Eldar made mistake not placing one of the flyers into reserves: it received around 30 damage from Relic Shocka, but otherwise turn was lackluster. I jumped boyz and tri-pointed one of the storm guardians squad and killing the second.
His first turn was more fruitful: I placed lootas on the second floor of the ruin, while 60 Grots were on the first floor los blocked.
My opponent maneuvered windriders and with double move one of the squads moved on the second floor of the ruin in the middle of the table, so geometrically it was closer to the lootas. I lost 5 lootas to that shooting. Lost 3 more to the second squad of windriders and reapers (Grot shield yielded a lot of “1”), and rest of the lootas died from morale, hadn’t fire a single shot.
Moreover I lost 3 squads of Grots and more than a half of my boyz squad died from charges.
I did highly regret not taking Freebooterz: their relic banner would save me 3
Kill points on Grots, several lootas and I wouldn’t be forced to pay 2cp on boyz morale.
Following game I almost annihilated his army, except for farseer, autarch and 10 rangers, but he got a lot of intel victory points, 4 vp from kill point difference and accumulated 8 more VP from maelstrom (lucky draw! )
1-19 loss.
Hero of the game is Relic shocka and a squad of Tank Bustas, who brought death and destruction.
SAG killed both fliers and on a crucial turn evaporated squad of reapers with S11 and 10 shots rolled.
Tanbustas killed a lot of windriders.
Double shooting of bad moons never happened due to extreme CP consumption on SAG, green tide and other stratagems,
so freebooterz would be a clear winner here.
Never considered freebooterz banner before, but it is so powerful in tournaments and games
where Kill Points also give you VP. I struggle with Grot morale all the time and this game kinda opened my eyes.
Couple pics (SAG were proxies sorry)
Spoiler:
Deployment:
Eldar’s first turn charge phase:
Second turn: Tank Bustas and boyz arrived, first boyz squad resurrected:
3rd turn, right before SAG annihilates reapers.
From turn 2 to 5 warboss fought in the far corner vs 15 rangers until Farseer arrived and smite him:
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/05/19 08:58:13
2019/05/19 12:18:47
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ)
flandarz wrote: If you're just doing it for funsies, then I won't stand in your way. Just bear in mind that this is the "competitive" thread. So, we're giving you competitive advice. If you're looking to bank in the SBWLT, you might want to consider bringing some Killa Kanz along too. Maybe drop the Nobs and bring them along. Between the KFF and the WLT, they might actually put in some work.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, wanna point out that although your Grots will be hitting on 3+ in the shooting phase and 4+ in the fighting phase, the S3 of their guns and the S2 of their attacks means you'll be getting, at best, a 4+ to Wound at range and a 5+ to Wound in CC. Not worth it.
I appreciate the suggestions. It’s no harm to try new things. These friendly games will act as a testing ground for stuff I might take in my itc list. . Normally I run evil suns and bad moonz. I’m basically looking at taking the new itc secondary king of the hill with the snakebites grots. When you remove the morale checks then it takes a huge amount of fire power to shift them.
2019/05/19 13:26:49
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ)
CaptainO wrote: I appreciate the suggestions. It’s no harm to try new things. These friendly games will act as a testing ground for stuff I might take in my itc list. . Normally I run evil suns and bad moonz. I’m basically looking at taking the new itc secondary king of the hill with the snakebites grots. When you remove the morale checks then it takes a huge amount of fire power to shift them.
Currious how it works. I am testing some new things myself next week:
- Deafskull Chinork with nobz (7*kustom shoota / 2*combi-rokkit + ammo runt).
I start to like nobz because they are ok at both shooting and CC. I guess the ammount of shooting might do something. For the rokkits I have two rerolls so they can be usefull. When the chinork dies the nobz will get a 3+ save and thus are quite sturdy on the ground and in CC as well).
- Deafskull Battlewagon with nobz (7*kustom shoota / 2*combi-rokkit + ammo runt) and 10 shoota boyz.
Same as above in a slower but little bit more sturdy transport with some addional boyz. 54 S4 shots might do something
- Warbuggies
They are crap. But since no one thinks them worthwhile to shoot at they have done some good work in my last games. Either grab objectives or charge into small infantry squads (worked well against eldar). They are dirt cheap so you don't care if they are destroyed.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/20 06:57:16
TACTICAL OBJECTIVES: Craftworlds
REFINED STRATEGIES: Advance, Domination, Blood and Guts, Orders Received
My roster was:
Spoiler:
Dawn of war, mission with intel characters.
I got first turn, and Eldar made mistake not placing one of the flyers into reserves: it received around 30 damage from Relic Shocka, but otherwise turn was lackluster. I jumped boyz and tri-pointed one of the storm guardians squad and killing the second.
His first turn was more fruitful: I placed lootas on the second floor of the ruin, while 60 Grots were on the first floor los blocked.
My opponent maneuvered windriders and with double move one of the squads moved on the second floor of the ruin in the middle of the table, so geometrically it was closer to the lootas. I lost 5 lootas to that shooting. Lost 3 more to the second squad of windriders and reapers (Grot shield yielded a lot of “1”), and rest of the lootas died from morale, hadn’t fire a single shot.
Moreover I lost 3 squads of Grots and more than a half of my boyz squad died from charges.
I did highly regret not taking Freebooterz: their relic banner would save me 3
Kill points on Grots, several lootas and I wouldn’t be forced to pay 2cp on boyz morale.
Following game I almost annihilated his army, except for farseer, autarch and 10 rangers, but he got a lot of intel victory points, 4 vp from kill point difference and accumulated 8 more VP from maelstrom (lucky draw! )
1-19 loss.
Hero of the game is Relic shocka and a squad of Tank Bustas, who brought death and destruction.
SAG killed both fliers and on a crucial turn evaporated squad of reapers with S11 and 10 shots rolled.
Tanbustas killed a lot of windriders.
Double shooting of bad moons never happened due to extreme CP consumption on SAG, green tide and other stratagems,
so freebooterz would be a clear winner here.
Never considered freebooterz banner before, but it is so powerful in tournaments and games
where Kill Points also give you VP. I struggle with Grot morale all the time and this game kinda opened my eyes.
Couple pics (SAG were proxies sorry)
Spoiler:
Deployment:
Eldar’s first turn charge phase:
Second turn: Tank Bustas and boyz arrived, first boyz squad resurrected:
3rd turn, right before SAG annihilates reapers.
From turn 2 to 5 warboss fought in the far corner vs 15 rangers until Farseer arrived and smite him:
Sick looking army dude! Great paintjob What are those models you use for the boyz?
2019/05/21 02:32:25
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ)
The april faq that made "as if it were that phase" rules work. I was so caught up that my Bad Moonz trait worked in overwatch now i didnt notice an even bigger bonus
Open topped and/or the Howdah both use the same wording, "in their Shooting phase". One of the largest transport changes that urked me was embarked units could not overwatch thanks to open topped specifically calling out shooting phase. I'm not missing some weird interaction that actually denies this am i?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/21 02:38:16
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2019/05/21 02:53:56
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ)
technically it could couldnt it? After the transport blows up and is removed the unit that charged it consolidates into the now disembarked unit. Fighting again strats happen at the end of the phase. Or is there a clause that prevents that such as "unit you charged" or has to attack same unit twice? I never use that stratagem as im either mopping the unit up in the first place or attacking with a mob that is unlikely to do damage anyway.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/21 15:27:59
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2019/05/21 15:28:58
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ)
Vineheart01 wrote: technically it could couldnt it?
After the transport blows up and is removed the unit that charged it consolidates into the now disembarked unit. Fighting again strats happen at the end of the phase.
Or is there a clause that prevents that such as "unit you charged" or has to attack same unit twice? I never use that stratagem as im either mopping the unit up in the first place or attacking with a mob that is unlikely to do damage anyway.
On the turn you charge, you can ONLY attack units you declared a charge against. That's a general rule, not a stratagem specific one.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
Sadly I don't think the grots benefit from the banner... It is friendly CLAN units only, as far as I remeber, isn't it?
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
