No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]

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**flandarz**

Did I miss a point bump? Last I checked, they're both 120 pts.

**Jidmah**

Vineheart01 wrote:
Is Zhadsnark worth it? He's even more expensive than the wartrike. Granted he has a PROPER klaw atleast.

He locks you into evil suns, doesn't get an attack squig and his aura doesn't work for bikes, so he can't advance and charge. On the other hand, he doesn't need a relic slot to function.
So if you were running evil suns for MANz or boyz anways, he might be an option, otherwise... not so much.

I don't think that a lot of revenues would ban legacy but not FW - from my experience and from what I have heard and read elsewhere, it's either just the codices, or everything with a point value is allowed.

**SemperMortis**

If this becomes ITC standard then I can tell you that it will absolutely destroy most current competitive Ork lists. I have a bunch of friends at NOVA this year, they sent me pictures of the ork armies they have seen and as of yet not a single one of them did not contain a couple of the units/wargear that is now going to be banned from events. Ironically they sent me a picture of the most expensive 2k point army I have ever seen

it had 18 Traktor Kannons, none were kustom so that means for just the Mek Guns (800ish points) he spent $900 without tax.

**addnid**

I can tell you that KFF coverage is horribly tedious to obtain in ETC lists, wasbom gets shot down in infantery heavy lists because only vehicle in range (smashas are further away generally), morkanaut also, so really the only kff option is MA big mek... Which is so bad (for reasons previously mentioned in this thread) that if you look at many ETC lists there is no kff at all.
So on some match ups, without proper terrain and without first turn an ork player is likely to take much too high losses turn 1.
It is indeed a higher challenge to play ork without index options... outside of team tournaments not many etc players still do from what I have seen

**Tomsug**

SemperMortis wrote:
If this becomes ITC standard then I can tell you that it will absolutely destroy most current competitive Ork lists. I have a bunch of friends at NOVA this year, they sent me pictures of the ork armies they have seen and as of yet not a single one of them did not contain a couple of the units/wargear that is now going to be banned from events. Ironically they sent me a picture of the most expensive 2k point army I have ever seen it had 18 Traktor Kannons, none were kustom so that means for just the Mek Guns (800ish points) he spent $900 without tax.

Sure, from business side of view - I really admire how they make a lot of people to buy huge amount of 50 bugs models. And everybody knows, that in less than 6 months, this list will be out and something else became a new meta... I gonna buy there stock to feed my hobby...

**flandarz**

We'll just have to find new competitive lists to field, if the current ones won't be valid. Work on new strategies and playstyles that don't need them. We have a pretty solid Codex, so I don't think it's impossible. We'll probably see a drop in W/L for a bit, until we get settled back in, but we're Orkz, boyz! We never lose and we never quit!

**SemperMortis**

flandarz wrote:
We'll just have to find new competitive lists to field, if the current ones won't be valid. Work on new strategies and playstyles that don't need them. We have a pretty solid Codex, so I don't think it's impossible. We'll probably see a drop in W/L for a bit, until we get settled back in, but we're Orkz, boyz! We never lose and we never quit!

See, I still don't see this as truth. I personally don't think we have a solid codex. In fact I view most of our codex as unplayable in competitive meta and borderline useless even in for fun meta. I love bringing my bikes to games but I had a few players ask me to bring different units because they just die to easy and they get tired of winning turn 3.

**flandarz**

I guess I should have clarified: Compared to many Codexes. Something like 40% of our Codex is in our top 2 color brackets on the OP, and only maybe 30% are in the bottom 2 brackets. I don't think that reflects "most of our Codex... borderline useless".

**SemperMortis**

flandarz wrote:
I guess I should have clarified: Compared to many Codexes. Something like 40% of our Codex is in our top 2 color brackets on the OP, and only maybe 30% are in the bottom 2 brackets. I don't think that reflects "most of our Codex... borderline useless".

And peoples personnel opinions mean exactly nothing. The real guide to see if a unit is good is how often you see it in tournament play. So most of our codex is in fact useless. We have right now a couple units that are used in competitive play and a vast majority which are never used. When was the last time you saw Burna boyz in a tournament that placed in the top 3, what about Warbikes, Deff Koptas, Nobz, Burna bombers, Any of the new buggies, the stompa, killa kanz, deff dreadz, any kind of Battlewagon except for maybe the bonebreaker, mork or gorkanauts, even trukkz, what about nobz? Really what we have is a couple of competitive units and that is about it. we do have a few units which are in the useful in non-competitive games category, a number of the aforementioned units are like that. But again, they never see play time in tournament placing lists.

**flandarz**

A couple of competitive units? Just looking at the two lists in the OP from last June, we got (sans Index Options) Weirdboyz, Boyz, SAG, SSAG, Gretchen, Lootas, Tankbustaz, Wazboms, Dakka Jets, Warbosses, Badrukk, Flashgitz, and Mek Gunz. Those are lists that won their tournaments, and neither was a cookie cutter of the other. That's 13 "tournament competitive" units, and is quite aside from anything that would work just fine in a FLGS environment. What you did was list the units that everyone agrees are terrible (with a few thrown in there in the "kinda decent, but you got better options" category) and use it as evidence that "most of the codex is borderline useless".

Edit because I missed one. I could include the April list as well for a couple more units.

**Jidmah**

SemperMortis wrote:
flandarz wrote:
I guess I should have clarified: Compared to many Codexes. Something like 40% of our Codex is in our top 2 color brackets on the OP, and only maybe 30% are in the bottom 2 brackets. I don't think that reflects "most of our Codex... borderline useless".

And peoples personnel opinions mean exactly nothing. The real guide to see if a unit is good is how often you see it in tournament play.

The first post reflects the tournament results of the last half year. Anything in the first to brakets has been in a list placing at least 4th place in a grand tournament. Some units from the others have as well.

So most of our codex is in fact useless.

Please provide proof. Feel free to sift through the top ork list of the half year for actual facts.

Deff Koptas

Equipped with both KMB and big shootas, they have been filling brigades for multiple top 4 placements, including one tournament winner.

deff dreadz

At least two 4 placements as well, though the trend has move to nauts and MANz.

mork or gorkanauts

Both have seen lots of play, with the gorkanaut taking the lead. We even have tripple naut lists doing well.

trukkz

Have made an appearance carrying both flash gits and tank bustas.

Really what we have is a couple of competitive units and that is about it.

Even when leaving out everything I'm not 100% sure about, 26 of our 47 codex datasheets have been seen in top 4 placing lists. You are objectively wrong.

But again, they never see play time in tournament placing lists.

Sorry, but I check all top 4 placing lists every week. I don't think you are, because half your post directly contradicts what can be found in those lists.

**SemperMortis**

Jidmah wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
flandarz wrote:
I guess I should have clarified: Compared to many Codexes. Something like 40% of our Codex is in our top 2 color brackets on the OP, and only maybe 30% are in the bottom 2 brackets. I don't think that reflects "most of our Codex... borderline useless".

And peoples personnel opinions mean exactly nothing. The real guide to see if a unit is good is how often you see it in tournament play.

The first post reflects the tournament results of the last half year. Anything in the first to brakets has been in a list placing at least 4th place in a grand tournament. Some units from the others have as well.

So most of our codex is in fact useless.

Please provide proof. Feel free to sift through the top ork list of the half year for actual facts.

Deff Koptas

Equipped with both KMB and big shootas, they have been filling brigades for multiple top 4 placements, including one tournament winner.

deff dreadz

At least two 4 placements as well, though the trend has move to nauts and MANz.

mork or gorkanauts

Both have seen lots of play, with the gorkanaut taking the lead. We even have tripple naut lists doing well.

trukkz

Have made an appearance carrying both flash gits and tank bustas.

Really what we have is a couple of competitive units and that is about it.

Even when leaving out everything I'm not 100% sure about, 26 of our 47 codex datasheets have been seen in top 4 placing lists. You are objectively wrong.

But again, they never see play time in tournament placing lists.

Sorry, but I check all top 4 placing lists every week. I don't think you are, because half your post directly contradicts what can be found in those lists.

Cool story bro, now eliminate tournaments that had less then 30 people in them. Just because a list wins at a local ITC event does not mean it works overall. How did the LVO events go, what lists were used there by the top 2 ork finishes, how about the Nova thats going on right now? How about Adepticon. Sorry I just don't put much weight to small events because a single person can dominate it based on how good they are compared to their competition.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And as a note to my post. Probably more important to see them winning in more then a few lists as opposed to 1 or 2. And especially important to see them a bit after the codex release, when the shiny new syndrome wears off and people learned how to counter our new tricks.

**gungo**

We all knew index would eventually go away plus our codex has a few duds but it’s base (troops and hq) are strong.

Losing the index will hurt however we should be getting a new model (which is likely another HQ option like big Mek or warlord) and a bunch of new rules from psychic awakening. I know getting another super SAG from a campaign again is unlikely but maybe something else will get better.

In other words our codex isn’t great but it’s good and if we get another proper pass through as they redo codexs I can see our codex getting better becuase having decent clan rules, troops, hq options, and relics was the hard part. Fixing a bunch of bad speciality units is easier.

**Grimskul**

I just hope with whatever psychic awakening campaign Orks get involved in that we get a revamped Ghazzy and plastic MAW kit, alongside ideally a regular Big Mek with KFF kit. Have the points costs of things like the deffkilla wartrike and the other buggies tweaked to make them more viable and it makes the loss of index options not as terrible.

**flandarz**

If the qualifications for being a good unit are to be a part of a top 3 list in a >30 person tournament in the last 6 months, then yes. The Ork Codex is full of awful units. As is literally every other Codex.

**ManTube**

SemperMortis wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
flandarz wrote:
I guess I should have clarified: Compared to many Codexes. Something like 40% of our Codex is in our top 2 color brackets on the OP, and only maybe 30% are in the bottom 2 brackets. I don't think that reflects "most of our Codex... borderline useless".

And peoples personnel opinions mean exactly nothing. The real guide to see if a unit is good is how often you see it in tournament play.

The first post reflects the tournament results of the last half year. Anything in the first to brakets has been in a list placing at least 4th place in a grand tournament. Some units from the others have as well.

So most of our codex is in fact useless.

Please provide proof. Feel free to sift through the top ork list of the half year for actual facts.

Deff Koptas

Equipped with both KMB and big shootas, they have been filling brigades for multiple top 4 placements, including one tournament winner.

deff dreadz

At least two 4 placements as well, though the trend has move to nauts and MANz.

mork or gorkanauts

Both have seen lots of play, with the gorkanaut taking the lead. We even have tripple naut lists doing well.

trukkz

Have made an appearance carrying both flash gits and tank bustas.

Really what we have is a couple of competitive units and that is about it.

Even when leaving out everything I'm not 100% sure about, 26 of our 47 codex datasheets have been seen in top 4 placing lists. You are objectively wrong.

But again, they never see play time in tournament placing lists.

Sorry, but I check all top 4 placing lists every week. I don't think you are, because half your post directly contradicts what can be found in those lists.

Cool story bro, now eliminate tournaments that had less then 30 people in them. Just because a list wins at a local ITC event does not mean it works overall. How did the LVO events go, what lists were used there by the top 2 ork finishes, how about the Nova thats going on right now? How about Adepticon. Sorry I just don't put much weight to small events because a single person can dominate it based on how good they are compared to their competition.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And as a note to my post. Probably more important to see them winning in more then a few lists as opposed to 1 or 2. And especially important to see them a bit after the codex release, when the shiny new syndrome wears off and people learned how to counter our new tricks.

While I absolutely think that there is more skill involved in playing good 40k than people often attribute to the game, list building is a huge bottleneck regardless of skill. The nature of the game is such that even the best players, when given garbage units, aren't going to be able to carry a bad list through match-ups with optimized lists. So I don't really think it's fair to just dismiss lists with flash gitz or deff dreads or trukks because they don't have multiple tournament wins or havent appeared at a major yet. The mere presence of these units performing effectively in winning lists proves to me that a good player can find real success with them, showing that they are usable and competitive. You are making it sound like because these lists or units werent at LVO or adepticon, they are only viable in local events with big skill gaps and when put to the true major tournament test they failed to measure up. Maybe these units didnt place because not a lot of people were even running them or a list like them at a major? You would have to look through every single ork list at these events and see which units appeared how many times and what the win rate for each one was, and eliminate the lists that were clearly just brought for fluff and fun. If you did that and saw flash gitz or trukks showing up in a ton of lists but always faring poorly, that says a lot more about their viability than seeing that they showed up in no lists at all. The former shows that even when people attempt to use these units effectively in a competitive environment, they fail to measure up. The latter just shows that not a lot of people were interested in trying them out. Now, that could be because they are so obviously useless that there's no point in running them, or it could be that everyone was thinking too "in-meta" to realize a situation where these units could actually be really useful.

**Jidmah**

SemperMortis wrote:
Cool story bro, now eliminate tournaments that had less then 30 people in them. Just because a list wins at a local ITC event does not mean it works overall. How did the LVO events go, what lists were used there by the top 2 ork finishes, how about the Nova thats going on right now? How about Adepticon. Sorry I just don't put much weight to small events because a single person can dominate it based on how good they are compared to their competition.

I'm exclusively referring to grand tournaments which get summarized by panda every week to which I have provided multiple links and summaries of notable unit inclusions over the last weeks.
None of those tournaments have less than 32 players, the vast majority have 50+

Facts not matching your bias is NOT a reason to be impolite, bro.

And as a note to my post. Probably more important to see them winning in more then a few lists as opposed to 1 or 2. And especially important to see them a bit after the codex release, when the shiny new syndrome wears off and people learned how to counter our new tricks.

No semper, if you want to prove your point,you go provide the facts. Go through the lists and collect the data for whatever theories you have come up.

As it stands, you are wrong. The majority of our units have been in grand tournament winning lists, and are therefore competitive.

**Orkimedez_Atalaya**

Just to steer the topic a bit,

What will change in your lists when the index is dropped?

I like the versatility that the index provided so I still use plenty of options from it.

As DSkull I will need to replace:
- Bikerboss
- mini meks with kmb
- rokkits from my trucks (this really sucks)
- koptas. I will need to find a way to redefine their use. No kmb and no boom hurts.

Also komandos loose their burnas (although I never play them).
What else?

**some bloke**

No more KMB's for killa kans. cheaper & better than rokkits, big shame.

**Jidmah**

The other biker characters also go. I have a pain boy on a bike, but I guess he could also just be a nob biker with a killsaw. He joins the Waaagh! Banner on a bike to be a regular useless nob biker now.

Big guns and old buggies are gone, but the saw little play anyways.

Dreads can no longer have 4 klaw for some stupid reason (bottom arms must be saws), kanz lose their KMBs.

Battlewagons and trukks lose their rokkits,

Nobz lose shootas and kustom shootas (even those leading shoota boyz), nob bikers also lose kustom-skorcha and kustom-rokkit.

Tankbusta nob loses all options, must have rokkit now.

Kommandoz basically lose all options, their nob is locked into a PK now.

Spannas lose kustom mega slugga and kombi weapons.

Mini mek is even more useless since he is limited to a kustom mega slugga now.

**CthuluIsSpy**

I knew this was going to happen. GW wouldn't let Index options be a thing forever. If they had intended you to keep using those options they would have kept them in the codex.

**An Actual Englishman**

Emicrania wrote:
And I just checked and there is maybe 1 or 2 major with 60 or more people, where orks didn't came top 4.
Just mute him. He's a troll full of BS

Are you sure HE'S the troll full of BS?

Here's a list of every major with more than 60 people that didn't have an Ork list in the top 4;

LVO
Prague Open
Barrie Bash
Games of Westeros VI
Dallas Open
Broadside Bash
Big Bristol GT
Warzone Gigabytes
Wet Coast GT
St George Champions
Barnyard Brawl
Fantasia 35
Canadian Tabletop Champs
Alamo GT
Caledonian Mayhem
Midwest Conquest
BAO
Terracon
Beef and Wing Brawl
Slagcon
Carolina Crusade
Flying Monkey Con
Caledonian Revolution
TGX - Tabletop Gaming Expo
Show-me Showdown
Battle in the Warp
BWG: Summer Slaughter
TSHFT
Battle in the Bush

Here's those majors with more than 60 people that did have an Ork list in the top 4;

Desperate Allies GT
Adepticon
Briscon
Storm of Silence
Warzone Atomic Empire
Gentleman's GT
Boise Cup
Warzone Houston
Wintercon
Slaughterfest
Summerslam GT
Siegeworld 2019
Capital City Bloodbath
WarGamesCon XI
Nova Open

Now I'm no mathematician, but I'm pretty sure that the massive list above is a little more than "1 or 2". In fact, it looks like we didn't finish in the top 4 at major events a lot more frequently than we did.

Of the 44 events with more than 60 people we finished in the top 4 exactly 15 times.

Of those times we finished in the top 4 at those events with more than 60 people we finished first 3 times, second 3 times, third 7 times and fourth 3 times.

Almost like we don't perform as well at larger events right? As I was saying a few pages back.

Semper - I wouldn't waste your breath in here. This thread has become an echo chamber where the participants don't want to actually discuss our faction outside of their beliefs that Orks are the best faction competitively and they will oppose any contrary evidence to this with misdirection, strawmans and ad hominems.

The data gets more interesting when we look at the specific units taken in competitive lists. Index units feature very, very frequently and we can see how lists adapted from the nerfing of mob up with a massive reduction in Meganobz and Loota (obviously) usage, and a greater reliance on more Mek Guns.

**Orkimedez_Atalaya**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I knew this was going to happen. GW wouldn't let Index options be a thing forever. If they had intended you to keep using those options they would have kept them in the codex.

That maybe so, still it hurts.

I am very reluctant to play hordes of boys on foot, never really enjoyed it. The only alternative I found are (a) use only grot (b) 11 Dskulls boys with shootas (1 rokkit) with a minimek with kmb in a rokkit truck.

I enjoyed option (b) quite a lot and after indexes are out, I sincerely don't know how to play boys anymore. Rokkit from the truck, gone. Minimek, gone. The unit looses a LOT of punch.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jidmah wrote:
The other biker characters also go. I have a pain boy on a bike, but I guess he could also just be a nob biker with a killsaw. He joins the Waaagh! Banner on a bike to be a regular useless nob biker now.

Nobz lose shootas and kustom shootas (even those leading shoota boyz), nob bikers also lose kustom-skorcha and kustom-rokkit

I am in a similar situation regarding my nob bikers (demoted characters). Some with "illegal" WYSIWII

**SemperMortis**

Appreciate the effort englishman. To add to your post, here are the lists from the last few Ork wins we have had.

Bad Moon GT:

Spoiler:

Nova Open:

Spoiler:

WargamesCon:

Spoiler:

CCBB:

Spoiler:

Siegeworld:

Spoiler:

Hammer Of Wrath:

Spoiler:

Gencon:

Spoiler:

SummerSlam:

Spoiler:

I am seeing a lot of very, very similar lists with only a few slight changes. I'll do a breakdown if I get some time.

**flandarz**

I never claimed that Orkz have the best Codex. I just take askance with statements like "Orkz only have 1 or 2 good units" and "most of the Codex is borderline useless, even in casual". Because it's, frankly, untrue. I count 16 different Codex units in the lists posted above, and while many of the lists feature the same units (Gretchin, SAG, Warboss, Mek Gunz), there's a few variations that would change up how a list is run (Flashgitz instead of Lootas, for example).

Again, I'm of a mind that we have a decent Codex, atlesst compared to the other Codexes. You act like EVERY Codex doesn't only have a few viable tournament builds, and that only lists built to win tournaments contain units that are "good". If I'm playing at my FLGS, I don't need the "top list" to be able to compete. I can take "decent" options and still do just fine.

Edit: TLDR; in comparison with other Codexes, Orkz are still perfectly viable and competitive.

**SemperMortis**

flandarz wrote:
I never claimed that Orkz have the best Codex. I just take askance with statements like "Orkz only have 1 or 2 good units" and "most of the Codex is borderline useless, even in casual". Because it's, frankly, untrue. I count 16 different Codex units in the lists posted above, and while many of the lists feature the same units (Gretchin, SAG, Warboss, Mek Gunz), there's a few variations that would change up how a list is run (Flashgitz instead of Lootas, for example).

Again, I'm of a mind that we have a decent Codex, atlesst compared to the other Codexes. You act like EVERY Codex doesn't only have a few viable tournament builds, and that only lists built to win tournaments contain units that are "good". If I'm playing at my FLGS, I don't need the "top list" to be able to compete. I can take "decent" options and still do just fine.

Edit: TLDR; in comparison with other Codexes, Orkz are still perfectly viable and competitive.

I had the entire unit breakdown including points written out and we lost power and the backup save was so far back it wasn't worth my time to redo the list.

Of those 8 lists you see a HEAVY reliance on HQs and Grotz to feed CP into the ork list. There were 3 units that do VERY similar jobs that were then buffed to hell with CP to make them decent. Lootas, Tankbustas and Flashgitz with a much heavier reliance on Lootas and Bustas then Flashgitz. There were something like 20 units listed but a large number of those were only seen in a very small proportion of the lists (2 or 3 at most, some only had 1 entry). The vast majority of the lists had the exact same built and or play style.

Now I will agree with you that most codex's only have a top list or two.

Funny how we don't see Trukkz, morkanautz, gorkanautz, dreadz, or deff koptaz in any of the recent 8 placing lists from the month of August. My belief is that now that hte codex isn't new, people aren't using those units because they are easily countered or there are a lot better alternatives.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And to add more to englishman's post. Almost every single list (I don't want to look again) featured Index only units, most notably the Big Mek KFF and the Warboss on warbike.

**Emicrania**

Spoiler:

An Actual Englishman wrote:
Emicrania wrote:
And I just checked and there is maybe 1 or 2 major with 60 or more people, where orks didn't came top 4.
Just mute him. He's a troll full of BS

Are you sure HE'S the troll full of BS?

Here's a list of every major with more than 60 people that didn't have an Ork list in the top 4;

LVO
Prague Open
Barrie Bash
Games of Westeros VI
Dallas Open
Broadside Bash
Big Bristol GT
Warzone Gigabytes
Wet Coast GT
St George Champions
Barnyard Brawl
Fantasia 35
Canadian Tabletop Champs
Alamo GT
Caledonian Mayhem
Midwest Conquest
BAO
Terracon
Beef and Wing Brawl
Slagcon
Carolina Crusade
Flying Monkey Con
Caledonian Revolution
TGX - Tabletop Gaming Expo
Show-me Showdown
Battle in the Warp
BWG: Summer Slaughter
TSHFT
Battle in the Bush

Here's those majors with more than 60 people that did have an Ork list in the top 4;

Desperate Allies GT
Adepticon
Briscon
Storm of Silence
Warzone Atomic Empire
Gentleman's GT
Boise Cup
Warzone Houston
Wintercon
Slaughterfest
Summerslam GT
Siegeworld 2019
Capital City Bloodbath
WarGamesCon XI
Nova Open

Now I'm no mathematician, but I'm pretty sure that the massive list above is a little more than "1 or 2". In fact, it looks like we didn't finish in the top 4 at major events a lot more frequently than we did.

Of the 44 events with more than 60 people we finished in the top 4 exactly 15 times.

Of those times we finished in the top 4 at those events with more than 60 people we finished first 3 times, second 3 times, third 7 times and fourth 3 times.

Almost like we don't perform as well at larger events right? As I was saying a few pages back.

Semper - I wouldn't waste your breath in here. This thread has become an echo chamber where the participants don't want to actually discuss our faction outside of their beliefs that Orks are the best faction competitively and they will oppose any contrary evidence to this with misdirection, strawmans and ad hominems.

The data gets more interesting when we look at the specific units taken in competitive lists. Index units feature very, very frequently and we can see how lists adapted from the nerfing of mob up with a massive reduction in Meganobz and Loota (obviously) usage, and a greater reliance on more Mek Guns.

You are the 3rd Commander in the room. ctrl+f and see which codex have more top 4´s. Than might just be that you are bad players? Ever considered that?
Stop posting altogether please. Or do post tactical related post or just go towards the nursery so you can cry as much as you want.

**flandarz**

It's important to bear in mind that just because a unit isn't in a winning tournament list doesn't mean it's bad. Tournament lists tend to only field the most competitive units and options. As an example, it's not that a Wartrike is a bad unit, but rather that the Biker Boss was a better unit. It's not that Gork and Morks are bad units, but that there are more competitive options to take for the points.

**An Actual Englishman**

Emicrania wrote:

Spoiler:

An Actual Englishman wrote:
Emicrania wrote:
And I just checked and there is maybe 1 or 2 major with 60 or more people, where orks didn't came top 4.
Just mute him. He's a troll full of BS

Are you sure HE'S the troll full of BS?

Here's a list of every major with more than 60 people that didn't have an Ork list in the top 4;

LVO
Prague Open
Barrie Bash
Games of Westeros VI
Dallas Open
Broadside Bash
Big Bristol GT
Warzone Gigabytes
Wet Coast GT
St George Champions
Barnyard Brawl
Fantasia 35
Canadian Tabletop Champs
Alamo GT
Caledonian Mayhem
Midwest Conquest
BAO
Terracon
Beef and Wing Brawl
Slagcon
Carolina Crusade
Flying Monkey Con
Caledonian Revolution
TGX - Tabletop Gaming Expo
Show-me Showdown
Battle in the Warp
BWG: Summer Slaughter
TSHFT
Battle in the Bush

Here's those majors with more than 60 people that did have an Ork list in the top 4;

Desperate Allies GT
Adepticon
Briscon
Storm of Silence
Warzone Atomic Empire
Gentleman's GT
Boise Cup
Warzone Houston
Wintercon
Slaughterfest
Summerslam GT
Siegeworld 2019
Capital City Bloodbath
WarGamesCon XI
Nova Open

Now I'm no mathematician, but I'm pretty sure that the massive list above is a little more than "1 or 2". In fact, it looks like we didn't finish in the top 4 at major events a lot more frequently than we did.

Of the 44 events with more than 60 people we finished in the top 4 exactly 15 times.

Of those times we finished in the top 4 at those events with more than 60 people we finished first 3 times, second 3 times, third 7 times and fourth 3 times.

Almost like we don't perform as well at larger events right? As I was saying a few pages back.

Semper - I wouldn't waste your breath in here. This thread has become an echo chamber where the participants don't want to actually discuss our faction outside of their beliefs that Orks are the best faction competitively and they will oppose any contrary evidence to this with misdirection, strawmans and ad hominems.

The data gets more interesting when we look at the specific units taken in competitive lists. Index units feature very, very frequently and we can see how lists adapted from the nerfing of mob up with a massive reduction in Meganobz and Loota (obviously) usage, and a greater reliance on more Mek Guns.

You are the 3rd Commander in the room. ctrl+f and see which codex have more top 4´s. Than might just be that you are bad players? Ever considered that?
Stop posting altogether please. Or do post tactical related post or just go towards the nursery so you can cry as much as you want.

See Semper? Ad Hominems and personal attacks.

Emicrania you lied. And your lie was a poor one, because it was so easy to prove false. Now I'm not sure why you're lying about these results, why you want it to seem like Orks are performing better than they are, but it's very odd and I'd suggest you stop.

SemperMortis wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And to add more to englishman's post. Almost every single list (I don't want to look again) featured Index only units, most notably the Big Mek KFF and the Warboss on warbike.

100% this. I think every list I looked at had an index option. Literally every list. Big Meks in Mega Armour aren't taken. Nor are warbosses on foot, in the main. It also seems as though certain builds rely on these index options to function effectively.

**flandarz**

Or that, in a competitive environment, you're gonna choose the most competitive option. Which, as I stated above, doesn't necessarily mean that the options you didn't take are bad, but rather that they aren't "as good".