No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]

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**gungo**

Not Online!!! wrote:
Thayme wrote:
If you're running evil sunz what's the harm in taking the named version of the biker boss? Being forgeworld index I'm assuming he is still going to be tournament viable.
Then you can put the relic klaw on a foot boss and you've got the ability to dajump and charge across the field.

Chances are that he ends up in Legends aswell as other FW units and lists.

In my dkok Facebook group several members of the The rules team said Fw indexes are not going legends.
Although they still had nothing to say about rules updates or what future plans for fw are.

But I’m less concerned for fw going narrative only.

**Emicrania**

That would be a massacre if FW would disappear.

**Weazel**

1) Da Jump is not 100%
2) Charge is definitely not 100% (especially if you thin down the chargeable units with dakka)
3) Dakkajet can snipe poorly positioned characters
4) Army composition hugely affects the survivability of the DJ. If they're shooting at the DJ, they're not shooting at my Bonebreakas.
5) It's kinda daft to compare Boyz and Dakkajets in a vacuum.

**tneva82**

JNAProductions wrote:
JNAProductions wrote:
Also, it's now...

4/9ths as effective against T8
1/2 as effective against T7
1/3rd as effective against T5 and T6 many-wound models

It is ONLY as effective against:

T1-3, T5 and T6 models with 1, 2, or 4 wounds and no FNP.
My math was wrong-I thought it went from D3 to D2, when it actually went from Dd3 to D2.

All that was affected, in terms of averages, are wound rolls.

That's more of a change than might be obvious. It got big boost against anything with 2 wounds. Albeit were those primary targets is another thing. But it went from every third guy taking 2 shots to kill to steady one wound is one kill.

Flat 2 damage is very good ability. Good thing lootas have that and not d3

Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Thayme wrote:
If you're running evil sunz what's the harm in taking the named version of the biker boss? Being forgeworld index I'm assuming he is still going to be tournament viable.
Then you can put the relic klaw on a foot boss and you've got the ability to dajump and charge across the field.

Chances are that he ends up in Legends aswell as other FW units and lists.

In my dkok Facebook group several members of the The rules team said Fw indexes are not going legends.
Although they still had nothing to say about rules updates or what future plans for fw are.

But I’m less concerned for fw going narrative only.

I don't expect FW units that have models on sale to go anywhere.

Now models that haven't had models on sale for ages? Those are likely candinate for legends as well.

GW is fairly consistent in no model no rules attitude. FW sells models. They will be still usable.

**Not Online!!!**

gungo wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Thayme wrote:
If you're running evil sunz what's the harm in taking the named version of the biker boss? Being forgeworld index I'm assuming he is still going to be tournament viable.
Then you can put the relic klaw on a foot boss and you've got the ability to dajump and charge across the field.

Chances are that he ends up in Legends aswell as other FW units and lists.

In my dkok Facebook group several members of the The rules team said Fw indexes are not going legends.
Although they still had nothing to say about rules updates or what future plans for fw are.

But I’m less concerned for fw going narrative only.

Can you do me a favour.
Tell them that the person responsible for r&h is a :"inkompetente vollpfoschte" that needs to seriously reconsider his career.

**some bloke**

Threw together a new list for a trial, which I'm quite looking forward to running.

The aim of this game is to work out how good Big Trakks are now - as my Looted tanks can't be anything else any more!

2 conflicting theories I have:

1: They are damn fast - faster than trukks. Use the wartrike for 14" move, advance and charge turn 1, full of small units of hitty stuff (EG Meganobs).
2: They do some decent shooting - notably the supa-skorcha. So lose the wartrike for, say, another big trakk and then chuck a supa-skorcha on all 3 for heavy infantry clearing firepower.

Has anyone put the big trakks to much use yet?

Also, do we know if IA stuff is going into Legends, or is it still useable (it's not got "(index)" on battlescribe so I'm unsure).

**An Actual Englishman**

Weazel wrote:
1) Da Jump is not 100%
2) Charge is definitely not 100% (especially if you thin down the chargeable units with dakka)
3) Dakkajet can snipe poorly positioned characters
4) Army composition hugely affects the survivability of the DJ. If they're shooting at the DJ, they're not shooting at my Bonebreakas.
5) It's kinda daft to compare Boyz and Dakkajets in a vacuum.

Why are you shooting units you intend to charge boys into?
Who takes bonebreakas in a competitive list?
With T6 different weapons fire at them compared to Bonebreakas. Buggies are their foil.

**Weazel**

You can substitute BB with whatever vehicle you use, I've find success with them. Anyway, T6 attracts absolutely the same weapons as T7/8. Deploy the Dakkajets in the most remote corner you can and no S4/5 weapon can touch them en masse, antitank weapons only.

**Jidmah**

When fielding dakkajets it's also absolutely essential to have your other shooting like SSAG, wazbom, mek guns and lootaz take out as much anti-tank that can threaten them as possible. Even if there are easier/more optimal targets, this is what makes or breaks the game them. You might still lose one to bolters or krak grenades, but you definitely don't want any flat 3 damage d6 damage shots on them.

In general, you should be able to shoot with them at least once. With 60" movement and 36" range, there is no reason to not just put them as far into a corner as possible.

**tneva82**

Jidmah wrote:

In general, you should be able to shoot with them at least once. With 60" movement and 36" range, there is no reason to not just put them as far into a corner as possible.

Which only protects them half the time(when you go first) for sure IF enemy has no better targets to shoot at them. Corner is nice yes but assuming board isn't custom designed to allow that you can't be quaranteed to have LOS block there(and if you can 100% quarantee that...who designs the boards?) and range is not going to save either. Plenty of long range guns in the game.

In 8th ed best to assume if enemy wants some unit dead T1 and he goes first it's dead. Pretty much nothing in this game can be protected for sure and dakkajet isn't even particularly hard to take out.

**Jidmah**

tneva82 wrote:
Jidmah wrote:

In general, you should be able to shoot with them at least once. With 60" movement and 36" range, there is no reason to not just put them as far into a corner as possible.

Which only protects them half the time(when you go first) for sure IF enemy has no better targets to shoot at them. Corner is nice yes but assuming board isn't custom designed to allow that you can't be quaranteed to have LOS block there(and if you can 100% quarantee that...who designs the boards?) and range is not going to save either. Plenty of long range guns in the game.

In 8th ed best to assume if enemy wants some unit dead T1 and he goes first it's dead. Pretty much nothing in this game can be protected for sure and dakkajet isn't even particularly hard to take out.

Yeah, I don't think I've ever had LOS blocked to any of my planes unless the shooting unit was hiding itself. Also, if you're going first, you always get your screen clearing, plus you get to kill the most dangerous guns before they shoot. For tactics, I always assume going second.

Unless we are talking guard, most guns max out at 36" or 48", which means putting them in opposing corners seriously limits what units can target them, especially since most armies need to be in range of aura abilities and thus can't split up. Anything that moves forward to target them sets itself up for turn 1 charges, so that's not happening a lot either.

Keep in mind that we are talking about losing two dakkajets T1 - losing one is pretty much expected, but I think two can be avoided.

**Emicrania**

One important move that people often overlook with the DJ is to deploy them in a corner and move 90° in your own deployment. They still have range 36" which means that you can probably still shoot what need to be shot at without risking them T1

**Slaktur**

My testing for the tournament I have in October continuing. I improved my list going from full freebooterz to mixed detachments.
The list is below.

Spoiler:

The idea is to max all units potential with different clans. The plan is to da jump in bad moon shoota boyz turn 1 and kill screens while the mek gunz and big mek pummels everything big in range. Turn 2 I da jump in 40 evil sunz boys after mob up and teleport the mega nobz.
I tried the list against a friends chaos list. From memory it was the following:
2 knights, 1 with 2 big melta looking cannons and one with 2 big miniguns. 1 small knight with miniguns
2 lord discordant and a sorcerer with jump pack in one detachment
2 slimey characters, 30 plague bearers and 2x3 nurglings
I never remember the name of non ork weapons, clans or units. But hopefully you get a picture of what I’m was facing.
Below is a bad battle report of the game.

Spoiler:

He got first turn and I felt the fear of Gork in me. Knight shooting always make me uneasy. He killed one of my dakkajets a handful of boys and a gretchins squad I had in front of the mek gunz with shooting. So it wasn’t that scary. He then charged one of his discordants and the small knight in 3 mek gunz and killed 2. We played seek and destroy and I was a bit close to him. I had placed all the mek gunz around the big mek for protection.
On my turn I tried to kill 3 nurglings on a point with the remaining dakkajet and killing 2. I never learn that a dakkajet won’t kill an entire unit of nurglings. I killed the small knight in shooting, got the big minigun knight down to 14. I da jumped the shoota boys and used more dakka on the plague bearers. Killed a lot less then I wanted to and the shoota boyz was stuck in no mans land.

He came in charge range with the minigun knight, almost killed another dakkajet and then charged more of my mek guns. I felt things where going south fast until I teleported in my mega nobs and da jumped 40 choppa boys. The boys killed lots of plague bearers and the mega nobs charged his melta cannon knight and out of 12 attacks with saws I hit 10 and wounded 8. He was down to 4 wounds with the help of klaws and I used 3 cp to pile in again and finish of the knight. The knight was his warlord.

Turn 3 he charged he killed 2 weird boys with shooting and charged in with the other discordant and more mek gunz went down. I think I was down to 3 of them.
I da jumped away my big mek and sniped his last knight. Boys went to town on the last plague bearers.

Turn four he killed my last mek guns and weird boys. Wazbom killed a lord discordant the boys charged slimy characters and he saw no way of him to win. I was getting ahead of point and from there on I was just going to snipe characters with the wazbom blastajet and kill anything stupid enough to stand in front of the big mek while the remaining boys held points. Some where in this mess all the gretchins died of course and the dakkajet too

I’m up 2 wins in a row against my chaos friend after a long walk in darkness. I think this is the list I will play in the tournament. Feel really happy about it. But I’m always open for suggestions. I’m not entirely sure if it worth 2 cp to teleport in only 6 mega nobs but don’t know what I could squeeze in instead.

**addnid**

Dakkajets can’t even get cover from the generic 2 CP strat correct ? Flyers are excluded right ? I won against an ad mech guy not long ago and when we debriefed we both thought “hey that dakkajet probably should not have received cover”. But we were not sure... is the strat in the last CA book ?
@Slaktur: you should get the SSAG a life saving grot Oiler

, and that patrol can change to a spearhead if you go 3*3 smashas

**Vineheart01**

Yeah aircrafts are excluded from that as well as titanic.
Not sure why you'd ever do it, but they are not excluded from the bloodaxe cover. I'd be more prone to accept that if it was a 12" range like every other codex's similar type of ability.

**gungo**

Not Online!!! wrote:
gungo wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Thayme wrote:
If you're running evil sunz what's the harm in taking the named version of the biker boss? Being forgeworld index I'm assuming he is still going to be tournament viable.
Then you can put the relic klaw on a foot boss and you've got the ability to dajump and charge across the field.

Chances are that he ends up in Legends aswell as other FW units and lists.

In my dkok Facebook group several members of the The rules team said Fw indexes are not going legends.
Although they still had nothing to say about rules updates or what future plans for fw are.

But I’m less concerned for fw going narrative only.

Can you do me a favour.
Tell them that the person responsible for r&h is a :"inkompetente vollpfoschte" that needs to seriously reconsider his career.

Alan was the driving force behind many of the books and rules. Once he died it kinda went in limbo til all the rules are now handled by the GW rules team. At this point it’s obvious the rules team prioritizes GW proper models.

**Vineheart01**

Yeah FW is kinda dead atm. Unless the model is brand new its kinda locked in stasis. Shame because they have a ton of stuff in most armies that is kinda...crap but are visually awesome.

Off topic...Aeronautica apparently is getting a new 'Eavy Bomma and all i can think of is "please give that to regular 40k" lol - absolutely massive ork jet.

**Tomsug**

I'm disappointed by the wazboom. Kff works little bit, but honestly - wazboom has a serious problem to hit anything. Not so many shots, bs5+. Do I had a bad luck in last 4 games, or is it a fact?

I see a Mad Dok Grotsnik in top list quite a lot. Any experience? For the price of 3 smashaguns or 10 boyz seems to be not so effective...

**flandarz**

Well, the Wazbom's Smasha can hit on 4+ (against a selected unit), but yeah. 5+ and limited shots don't work well together. I've found it works well paired with a couple of Dakka Jets, with all three zipping around the board in formation. You *should* be able to land atleast 1 shot a round with it, so while the DJs fire on chaff, it'll soften up the target behind them. Definitely not something you want to rely on to take out an enemy target though, even if it's a Flyer and you use Long, Sustained Bursts for an additional +1.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mad Dok is probably there because of his ability to charge during the opponent's Charge Phase, I'd wager. Run him up behind some Da Jumped Boyz and your opponent risks having him charge in if they wipe the Boyz during Shooting, while still providing them a 6+++.

**MannyMcCoconut**

Tomsug wrote:
I'm disappointed by the wazboom. Kff works little bit, but honestly - wazboom has a serious problem to hit anything. Not so many shots, bs5+. Do I had a bad luck in last 4 games, or is it a fact?

I see a Mad Dok Grotsnik in top list quite a lot. Any experience? For the price of 3 smashaguns or 10 boyz seems to be not so effective...

The wazboom is good for, at lease some, alpha strike protection, but I think its a bit better as deathskulls (not sure what you’re running). It’s got a decent number of shots, the smasha has an improved BS, and with the DS re-rolls Ive found it works well for its price.

For Mad doc, I haven’t used him much, but he’s essentially a warboss with some nice additional rules including FNP for nearby infantry (5++ for himself)..

**Vineheart01**

Wazbom still hits like a truck, i usually only have 1 bad game with it after about a dozen of it just pissing my opponent off either by being a mobile KFF for my Da Jumped boyz, sniping tough cookies he had hiding from my mork/sag, or just general airborne artillery.
Its not impossible to kill by any means but it still survives considerably longer than you'd think. I feel naked without that thing now.

**Slaktur**

addnid wrote:
Dakkajets can’t even get cover from the generic 2 CP strat correct ? Flyers are excluded right ? I won against an ad mech guy not long ago and when we debriefed we both thought “hey that dakkajet probably should not have received cover”. But we were not sure... is the strat in the last CA book ?
@Slaktur: you should get the SSAG a life saving grot Oiler, and that patrol can change to a spearhead if you go 3*3 smashas

You Sir is a got damn genius. Or maybe i'm just stupid. I didn't see the Spearhead hiding in my patrol. I use the death skull gretchins for grotshield to the big mek but an extra wound with a grot oiler never hurts. Thanks for your input.

**Singleton Mosby**

Vineheart01 wrote:
Off topic...Aeronautica apparently is getting a new 'Eavy Bomma and all i can think of is "please give that to regular 40k" lol - absolutely massive ork jet.

We had one in 7th. Which was kinda awesome and I fielded my scratch-built version quite often. But yeah, was thinking the same when I read that announcement.

**Emicrania**

In My freebooterz list Wazbomb is essential to protect the DJ vs alpha strike and helped soak fire so many times. Also hitting 4+ with it is pretty sweet .

Also 3+ with the smasha, as it says that is +1 to hit with it and 2+ with strat

**Orkimedez_Atalaya**

The problem I have with the Wazboom is not so much the wazboom itself. It's the fact that I usually play Death skulls and I find all KFF redundant.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
The thing is, how can we deal with a 3xinvictus with flamers?

**some bloke**

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:

The thing is, how can we deal with a 3xinvictus with flamers?

Kill them first. if they are the superheavy primaris dudes I'm thinking of, rokkits, KMB and SSAG do wonders against them.

if your tactics are to DJ a blob of boys in, and you find yourself facing an army which can easily kill them all with short range guns, change your tactics. Also, aim to get a charge and 3-point your way to not being shot this turn.

Blindly following a plan without considering the enemy is not a good way to play. you need some flexibility - obviously you can't make an army that can do anything and everything but you can give yourself at least 2 ways to go about it. There's no point bringing a list which revolves around jumping loads of infantry as close as possible and then still going through with it when faced with an army who wants your infantry to be within 9" of them, it's a bad move. You might as well put your king in check, because you were always planning to move there.

Our shootas are 18" range, those guys would need lucky advance rolls to close that gap in 1 turn. just stay away from them.

Had a game on Monday vs space wolves, he had one plan which was to sit pretty and mow down my infantry. I brought dreads. he tried to sit pretty and mow down dreads. It didn't work.

He had bjorn, who could have charged. He had a repulsor which could have moved away and kept its lascannon firing. He had a redemptor dread which could have hid in cover. he had 6 flamer dudes with power fists who also could have charged. but the tactic was to sit pretty, mow down infantry, flame what's left. sticking to his tactics lost him the game.

**Jidmah**

Tomsug wrote:
I'm disappointed by the wazboom. Kff works little bit, but honestly - wazboom has a serious problem to hit anything. Not so many shots, bs5+. Do I had a bad luck in last 4 games, or is it a fact?

I see a Mad Dok Grotsnik in top list quite a lot. Any experience? For the price of 3 smashaguns or 10 boyz seems to be not so effective...

I have been running him a lot (he is the main reason I switched from bloodaxes to deff skulls), and he is just a package of awesome stuff. During your first turns, he is a pain boy that reduced casualties by a little (effect multiplies with KFF, so take that, too) that is an undesirable target for snipers due to his 4+ armor FNP roll. He also buffs units from other clans, so you can put him next to your bad moons lootas and gretchin to make them harder to kill.
Once he gets close he becomes a warboss with his 2+ to hit (-1) and extra attack from the syringe, meaning he does decent damage to most characters, infantry units and other things.
Last, but not least, One Scalpel Short of a Medpack makes him really annoying for units that dive into your army like harlequins or smash captains. If there are no orks within 3" of him he gets to charge them during their turn - which means, if you successfully charge them, no charge move for them and you get to fight before them. During your turn, you can exploit it to assassinate stuff, since he can advance/fall back and still charge with it.

He is not a killa klaw boss, but you get tons of stuff for your 86 points.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit: You guys really need to decide whether DJ is Da Jump or DakkaJet.

**addnid**

Slaktur wrote:
addnid wrote:
Dakkajets can’t even get cover from the generic 2 CP strat correct ? Flyers are excluded right ? I won against an ad mech guy not long ago and when we debriefed we both thought “hey that dakkajet probably should not have received cover”. But we were not sure... is the strat in the last CA book ?
@Slaktur: you should get the SSAG a life saving grot Oiler, and that patrol can change to a spearhead if you go 3*3 smashas

You Sir is a got damn genius. Or maybe i'm just stupid. I didn't see the Spearhead hiding in my patrol. I use the death skull gretchins for grotshield to the big mek but an extra wound with a grot oiler never hurts. Thanks for your input.

You are very welcome ! I like your list a lot, but I a am not sure the Mega armour nobz fit that well in it (though it is a rather good unit overall). I would go for something with more impact, sacrificing staying power if need be.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:
The problem I have with the Wazboom is not so much the wazboom itself. It's the fact that I usually play Death skulls and I find all KFF redundant.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
The thing is, how can we deal with a 3xinvictus with flamers?

If it is not salamanders, then I d say Lootas wreck it no? Smashas wreck it too. That sweet toughness 6 hah hah. Problem is it can hide well I guess

Automatically Appended Next Post:
What you do with mad doc, if ever he is not within 3 of a weird boy, is you take away casualties among your boyz within 3 at the end of enemy shooting.
But in reality when I play mad doc (9 games out of 10) he is absolutely always within 3 of a weird boy, until like turn 5 when my weirdboys are usually dead. So the scalpel short of a medpack rule never kicks in sadly.

**hollow one**

Slaktur wrote:
My testing for the tournament I have in October continuing. I improved my list going from full freebooterz to mixed detachments.
The list is below.

Spoiler:

Bad Moons Battalion
Wierdboy, 62p
Wierdboy, 62p
29x Shoota boyz, Boss nob, Big Coppa, 215p
10x Gretchin, 30p
10x Gretchin, 30p
Dakka jet 6x supa shoota, 148 p
Dakka jet 6x supa shoota, 148 p

Evil sunz Battalion
Warboss, Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw, 80p
Weirdboy, 62p
29x boyz, Boss nob Big Coppa, 215p
9x boyz, Boss nob Big Coppa, 75p
10x gretchin, 30p
6x Meganobz, 3x saws, 3x klaws, 234p

Deathskullz patrol
Big mek souped up Shokka, 80p
10x gretchins, 30p
5x smasha gun, 155p
3x smasha gun 2x traktor kannon, 183p
Wazbom Blastajet, Kustom force field, 159p

I’m up 2 wins in a row against my chaos friend after a long walk in darkness. I think this is the list I will play in the tournament. Feel really happy about it. But I’m always open for suggestions. I’m not entirely sure if it worth 2 cp to teleport in only 6 mega nobs but don’t know what I could squeeze in instead.

Yeah man the list is rad, I run something similar. You wanna drop the 234 points of meganobz? this is how I would spend those points.

Move 10 badmoon grots to the deathskulls.
Then add another 10 grots (+30points) to the deathskulls and another big mek with SAG (+80points) and you got your third battallion.
In place of the badmoon grots, you'll add 10 shoota boyz (+70 points).
Then I'd put your warboss on a bike (+20 points, and index option if that's okay with you)
Finally, upgrade your evil sunz big choppas to powerklaws.

This makes your shoota boy bomb better, and gives you the CP to power it for longer. Makes your deathskulls SSAG backfield super good (and semi reliable), and you make up some of the loss of the meganobz with PKs in the boyz. You'll feel the extra 5CP. That's a free attack twice (guaranteed wrap, most of the time) and autopass morale, which is typically back breaking.

**Jidmah**

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/cz5f0d/pandas_weekend_rundown_830901/

No other orks at top tables besides the one at nova. Most notably, this is the last tournament weekend before new marines, next week we'll see how much the poster boyz really got buffed.