Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

If we get a new model and its not Old Zogwort I'll be pissed

SemperMortis wrote:
If we get a new model and its not Old Zogwort I'll be pissed

This. It would HUGELY wasted opportunity if they didn't have him alongside a plastic Weirdboy as one of the releases for this. Give us back the ability to poof characters into squigs dammit!

Hi guyz,
do you have some experience with the Blood Axe shoota boyz in deepstrike? My army is multi SAG + lootas + smg shooting blob with wazboom and jet support. I need a support = boots on ground to catch objectives and keep them.

the idea is use the cheap 1CP Bloodaxe “teleport” to deepstrike blobs of 20 shootaboyz around the objectives on the field. (Let' say 2 units for total of 2CP for 40 boyz in T2) They have 18” range and 40 shots, one boy on terrain feature = they have a cover + can fell back and shoot = if charged, fire overwatch, are target of fight, fight back, fell back, fire, fire overwatch, are beaten.

The lack of Badmoons 1reroll and maximum number of boyz is not optimal, I know. But cheap deepstrike, more gunz in total, better save (but almost everything is now -1...), and fell back trik...

Plus you can take a Morgon finking cap to regain CP on 6+ = in average about +3CP per game with 3bat. Plus you can taky 70p Snikrot = super cheap hq with deepstrike.

Any experience?

 Tomsug wrote:
Hi guyz,
do you have some experience with the Blood Axe shoota boyz in deepstrike? My army is multi SAG + lootas + smg shooting blob with wazboom and jet support. I need a support = boots on ground to catch objectives and keep them.

Yes, I do. Short answer: Don't run blood axes unless you want snikrot.

the idea is use the cheap 1CP Bloodaxe “teleport” to deepstrike blobs of 20 shootaboyz around the objectives on the field. (Let' say 2 units for total of 2CP for 40 boyz in T2) They have 18” range and 40 shots, one boy on terrain feature = they have a cover + can fell back and shoot = if charged, fire overwatch, are target of fight, fight back, fell back, fire, fire overwatch, are beaten.

First of all, cover requires all models of a unit to at least touch terrain. Second, a unit of 20 boyz isn't actually hard to remove and 18" isn't a large range at all. Even shoota boyz fight better than they shoot, so why would you want to fall back? Assuming there is anything left to fall back after they took a charge of course.
You are much better off just using gretchin or kommandoz for that job.

The lack of Badmoons 1reroll and maximum number of boyz is not optimal, I know. But cheap deepstrike, more gunz in total, better save (but almost everything is now -1...), and fell back trik...

My experience with Blood Axes are that you will rarely, if ever benefit from the cover part, and fall back almost never matters as either your enemy has fallen back or was wiped out before you get a chance to, or your unit has been wiped out. Falling back only makes sense against pure tarpit units, and boyz usually plow right through those. The other ork player in our group confirmed that he thinks the same.

Plus you can take a Morgon finking cap to regain CP on 6+ = in average about +3CP per game with 3bat.

The cap nets a maximum of 1 CP per battle round, and you usually blow through all your CP in turn 1 and 2. In my experience, the warlord trait nets 0-2 CP.
The one cute trick you can do with blood axes is reserve a Banner Nob with 1 CP and give him the "Follow me, ladz" warlord trait for +1 CP. You can now drop Waaaagh!, Breaking Heads and Banner aura wherever you need it.

Plus you can taky 70p Snikrot = super cheap hq with deepstrike.

Any experience?

Snikrot is pretty much the only reason to ever pick bloodaxes - if you want him, 3 units of bloodaxe gretchin and 1 weirdboy (who doesn't care about clans) are as many blood axes as you need.

Given that you play Blood axes and you want some infiltrating units, I would say, look no more! Komandos should be your choice. Only 1 more than a normal boy and the deep strike is free.

If you are looki g for objetive campers, use grot.

I think, if you REALLY want Snikrot, you might be good using a Supreme Command Detachment instead of a Battalion. Get the sneaky boy and a couple of Weirdboys for less than 200 pts. And they should all benefit from the Kultur.

Only real issue I got with Blood Axe Battalion is that those Grots aren't gonna be too useful for ya, since Grot Shield is Kultur locked.

Jidmah - thanks, you confirmed all my doubts and add couple of others but the trick with the banner is cool. Except one think - blood axe get the cover if one model from the unit is on the terrain feature. So one boy in cover = all boyz in cover. But it also doesn' t work great.

Orkimedez - I have kommandos already. Full of index weapons. Not so great as was expected. Especially burnas sucks because of range. I shot with them once and do nothing last tournament. I had 30 sluga boyz and 2 kommandos as evil sunz and it sucks. Now I was thinking about

A) switch them to Blood Axes shootaboyz and maybe change 2 kommandos + 1 30slugaboyz for 2x20shootaboyz - after Jidmah' s full covering report = no go.
B) switch them to Bad Moons shootaboyz and switch the burnas for big shootas and share the grots for grot shield with second bad moonz batalion. This seems to be better.

Grots are far to be good for sitting objectives. 5 GAT/MAT comes and annihilate them in one turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The only question is the hq - one weirdboy is obvious. But second? Evil sunz warboss on warbike with relik klaw was great. But as Bad Moonz? Maybe give him thinderbuss....

 Tomsug wrote:
Jidmah - thanks, you confirmed all my doubts and add couple of others but the trick with the banner is cool. Except one think - blood axe get the cover if one model from the unit is on the terrain feature. So one boy in cover = all boyz in cover. But it also doesn' t work great.

Codex:Orks wrote:A unit with this kultur gains the benefit of cover, even while they are not entirely on or in a terrain feature, if the enemy model making the attack is at least 18" away.

You are misreading that. You don't get the first part without being 18" away.

Orkimedez - I have kommandos already. Full of index weapons. Not so great as was expected. Especially burnas sucks because of range. I shot with them once and do nothing last tournament. I had 30 sluga boyz and 2 kommandos as evil sunz and it sucks. Now I was thinking about

A) switch them to Blood Axes shootaboyz and maybe change 2 kommandos + 1 30slugaboyz for 2x20shootaboyz - after Jidmah' s full covering report = no go.
B) switch them to Bad Moons shootaboyz and switch the burnas for big shootas and share the grots for grot shield with second bad moonz batalion. This seems to be better.

Grots are far to be good for sitting objectives. 5 GAT/MAT comes and annihilate them in one turn.

I think you are misunderstanding the job of objective campers. Their one an only job is to sit on an objective and generate VP and/or prevent stuff like a rhino or deep strikers from getting quick VP out of them with little investment(depending on mission). Anything durable and powerful enough to fight off a unit that is dedicated to clearing out objectives, like terminators, DG drones or a unit of da jumped boyz should not be sitting on an objective, but take the fight to the enemy instead.
Gretchin are optimal for this job because any unit that comes for them will be multiple times their costs - their main defense is being small and out of sight. Any gun good at clearing out gretchin should be either out of range or busy with killing the ork boyz you are jumping in their face anyways.
The only exceptions are forward objectives in the middle of the board or on a less protected flank of your opponent. To take those you either use maximum units of boyz, snikrot, kommandoz or MANz, but that's not exactly objective "sitting".

The only question is the hq - one weirdboy is obvious. But second? Evil sunz warboss on warbike with relik klaw was great. But as Bad Moonz? Maybe give him thinderbuss....

Second one is usually needed if you are facing lots of assassins. Otherwise, just keep them out of range and sight of snipers. A bad moons warboss on warbikes with relic klaw is just as great as an evil suns one.

Idea: Snakebitez Dread Waagh with a 6 model unit of Rokkit Killa Kanz supported by a KFF Mega Mek with Surly as a Squiggoth. Throw em in a Tellyporta, and on T2 drop em out and Da Jump the Mek into the center of the of them. Kustom Ammo double shoot something you want dead. Snakebitez Warlord Trait will protect you from Morale losses and KFF will help with ranged attacks, so whether to charge them in or not is up to you (Take Saws for 30 attacks to make up for the poor WS).

Probably not optimal, but it'd certainly be a surprise to anyone who thinks Kanz aren't good. Risky though, since the Kanz explode based on slain models and not the unit.

Kanz can't tellyport...

Dammit! You're right. I should have remembered, since I knew they couldn't use Ramming Speed. Kanz need more love. Definitely too slow to foot slog their way to a target, and too bulky to hide and hope they come to you. Nevermind.

Kanz almost JUST need to be excluded from the gretchin exclusion crap and they'd be fine.
Not perfect, but playable.

I agree.

Edit: Kanz with Kultur and Stratagems would probably be a solid Light Blue. At least Blue tier.

Do you guys think are they gonna come out with the big faq next week or ?

This is GW. It could be anytime between now and the heat death of the universe, and you'll never know until 30 seconds before it drops.

GW acts like they have a schedule for such things but in reality its just whenever they feel its ready.
Could suddenly get it next week or end of the year...

The Big FAQ is unlikely to change much anyway.

GW believe (wrongly) that they have answered many of the questions regarding odd rules interactions.

 Emicrania wrote:
Do you guys think are they gonna come out with the big faq next week or ?

They are currently in full hype-mode for their psychic awakening campaign. I doubt they drop the Chapter Approved during that time. I'm expecting it to come out near the end of Novemeber/start of December.

Big FAQ will most likely be on the 30th. That way it still happens in September like it is supposed to, but keeps us waiting to the last minute like GW tends to do.

Hey Guys,

It's been a long time since I have played, 5th edition was the last time.
I have kept my Evil Sunz based ork army though, and I am looking to revive the whaaaagg! But form what I can tell, the 4th/5th ed tactics are far gone, and the joys of throwing boyz in trukks and throwing them at the enemy is far gone. And so is the Nob Bikers + biker boss deathstar tactics... All of which is what my current models were based on. The army used to do well, but from what I can tell, it's not so anymore.

Is it just time for me to throw in the towel and pretty much start from scratch? Plus, the new rules with detachments and stuff are still slightly confusing to me, but I'm sure that as I get into the rulebook more, it will be more clear.

Depends on how competitive your meta is. You could make a decent Speed Waagh style list, but it certainly won't be optimal.

 Cjsuner wrote:
Hey Guys,

It's been a long time since I have played, 5th edition was the last time.
I have kept my Evil Sunz based ork army though, and I am looking to revive the whaaaagg! But form what I can tell, the 4th/5th ed tactics are far gone, and the joys of throwing boyz in trukks and throwing them at the enemy is far gone. And so is the Nob Bikers + biker boss deathstar tactics... All of which is what my current models were based on. The army used to do well, but from what I can tell, it's not so anymore.

Is it just time for me to throw in the towel and pretty much start from scratch? Plus, the new rules with detachments and stuff are still slightly confusing to me, but I'm sure that as I get into the rulebook more, it will be more clear.

Welcome back! If you post a list of stuff you have, we can turn that into a semi-working army.
Bad news on the nob bikers though - Waaagh! Banner is gone, pain boy on bike has turned into an index-only character and nob bikers themselves are massively over-costed unit with low hitting power. I'm currently turning mine into warbikers, which are slightly less terrible.
The good news is that speed freaks got a pile of new awesome models which are a couple of point breaks short from becoming decent - but GW is noew actually regularly reviewing points twice a year, rather than once per decade.

If Ghazzie does arrive on the scene again, I would like to see him having a "Klans Unite" ability (because, you know, he united the klans) where you can mix units in your army and still benefit from culture traits etc.

He should also get better the more boys you have - perhaps having a 6+++, which gets +1 for every unit of 10 or more Orks within 12", to a max of 3+++, thus the more of a horde of boys he's in, the more orks believe he can't be killed, and thus he becomes harder to kill. This would offset the fact that the'll have over 10 wounds and so be ultra-targetable. anyone focussing on him instead of his battery would be making a mistake.

 some bloke wrote:
If Ghazzie does arrive on the scene again, I would like to see him having a "Klans Unite" ability (because, you know, he united the klans) where you can mix units in your army and still benefit from culture traits etc.

He should also get better the more boys you have - perhaps having a 6+++, which gets +1 for every unit of 10 or more Orks within 12", to a max of 3+++, thus the more of a horde of boys he's in, the more orks believe he can't be killed, and thus he becomes harder to kill. This would offset the fact that the'll have over 10 wounds and so be ultra-targetable. anyone focussing on him instead of his battery would be making a mistake.

Cool ideas, but that'd make him way OP. The Klans Unite power would have to be a aura, otherwise he's always be in every list with no downside.

Yeah i dont see that happening.
That is the reason why i said he shouldnt be clanlocked though. He still is Goff, but like Freeboota he can be taken in any list.

An aura to buff the kulture would be neat though. That could easily get out of hand quickly, however.

I'd like to see him get the G-Man treatment, but without a Kultur lock. Give him CC buffs instead of ranged ones, like additional Advance and Charge distance, more attacks or Strength or AP, FnP aura, etc. Give him the tools to thrive as a 10+ Wound character (even a copy of the G-Man thing where he can come back to life). As a LoW, you'd need to make one of your Detachments into a Supreme Command or Super Heavy, so he wouldn't necessarily be an "auto-take" even if he was real good (since we're so CP dependent).

Why would he go over 10 wounds though? Even as primork, he is more in the league of daemon princes and gulliman than Mortarion or Magnus. He is already pretty difficult to handle for many armies, once he hits their ranks. His main problem right now is getting there.

Having him improve the movement of GOFF units near him while unlocking him for all clans seems like a great idea though.

yeah i dont see a reason for him to go above 8 wounds. Not even a self-heal makes sense for him since hes not any better than other orks in terms of regeneration.
Though i'd probably want a painboy following him around anyway lol

At most bump him to 9 wounds so he still has the character protection. I'd have his attacks up to 6 too since honestly it feels weird he has less attacks than the head honchos of other factions. Make him unlocked for all Klanz like mentioned by others and give something in addition to his current +1 attack aura, I feel like its too conditional and doesn't add enough to reflect his kunnin'. Maybe +1 to advance and charge rolls?

 Grimskul wrote:
At most bump him to 9 wounds so he still has the character protection. I'd have his attacks up to 6 too since honestly it feels weird he has less attacks than the head honchos of other factions. Make him unlocked for all Klanz like mentioned by others and give something in addition to his current +1 attack aura, I feel like its too conditional and doesn't add enough to reflect his kunnin'. Maybe +1 to advance and charge rolls?

Girlyman used to give rerolls to hit and wound for all Ultramarines in his army. I don't see why Ghaz's shouldnt be just as crazy good for Goffs, might make Goffs worth taking again. +1 attack for all Units within 6' AT THE START of the charge phase and reroll all hits and wounds for Goff units within 6' of Ghaz.