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KMB koptas are so cheap i would suggest it even if you werent deathskullz.
But theyre not only Legends theyre also a kitbash to use so double-whammy to not use them.

He flamed, I jested, no need to go Mod style

 Vineheart01 wrote:
KMB koptas are so cheap i would suggest it even if you werent deathskullz.
But theyre not only Legends theyre also a kitbash to use so double-whammy to not use them.

It's probably better than the Big Shootas version at least. Clocking in at 145 for a max squad... 20 T5 wounds at barely over 7 points per wound.
That point drop was so big.

I dunno if I'd wanna take a full squad without any rerolls, though. Each one could overheat haha. Maybe 5x w/ Bad Moon would actually be good.

Kebabcito wrote:
I still don't know how to play flash gitz, maybe we can see someone playing them in LVO

For not-fully competetive games I run 2 x 10 Gitz with 2 runts in two battle waggons and add another squad of 5 in one and some characters like badrukk and maybe some lootas / tankbustas in the other.
I try to bring them into 2 good positions so they do not have to move a lot with their heavy weapons.
Works best if there are buggies, boys and other things around that keep them safe and the opponent busy.

My alternative take is green tide with lots of boys, lootas and gretchin. Tellyport 2-3 squads of 10 and put at least 70+ boys (jump + tellyport) in front of them.
No game changer but they kinda are my signature unit and i never leave without them.
With their profile they are quite good at killing Primaris, if i get to shoot without moving to much.
Too bad Primaris got a lot better killing us.^^

Guess the most competetive way to use them would be to run freebooterz and add stuff like Dakkajets, Shootaboys and maybe even Lootas together with lots of buggies and koptas to fully utilize competitive streak.

Competitive streak triggers if they sit in an freebooterz battlewaggon since it is a hit modifier, so they might get som`good shootin`without gettin`shot at too much.
Lack the amount of buggies to play this and i guess most competitive players would just play DS and take smashas instead of them. :(

tulun wrote:
[
Honestly, the Big Trakk w/ Supa Skorcha would probably be more annoying to planes than Burnas. Make it Deathskulls, give it Wreckers for the meme (wounds CHE on a 3+ then lol), and its solid transport for Flash Gitz.

I think in reality, the best things to deal with Eldar hover tanks / planes are:

1) SSAG (more dakka, shoot twice)
2) Trakor Kannons
3) Tankbustas w/ More Dakka, Showin' off (tbh, even tankbustas without more dakka on average hit ~33% of the time... rerolls are awesome).
4) Dragstas if they don't stack -3 to hit.
5) Smite the bastards.
6) Assault them. Wave Serpents are a bitch to shoot, but completely fall apart if you charge them. CHE and the like are trickier, but I'm sure you could actually do okay with Stormboyz + wreckers stratagem.

It would not be just burnas but also flame weapons from kopter. Dunno. Just trying to think any excuse to use burnas luckily local meta is more relaxed with zero ih/if and generally toned down lists as i avoid competive events like plague. Enough casual ones to fill my tournament desires.

Sorry man, only good excuse for burnas is the model - it is great.

8” range = 0% chance to flame after DS. In fact this mean very low chance to even shoot before T3 = useless
8” range = in range? = you are in bolter rapid fire distance. Bye bye
AP 0 = what? Even the parrot of SM cleaning lady has something like 3+ sv with reroll againts players with blue trousers. How can you kill anything without AP?
Autohiting flamers = enemy player “whow, it' s dangerous, I have to kill this cool looking badasses before they come to range!” ...plop... T4 W1 and no save?... done.

I love this bastards. I used them in kommando squads (useless). Now I try to use them in Killteam [distraction carnifex and glasscannon experience btw.). we have to be fair...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Better to think about Supa Skorcha Big Trukk - also cool flamer and it can do something.

 Tomsug wrote:
Now I try to use them in Killteam [distraction carnifex and glasscannon experience btw.).

From my experience in KT, they are trashy there as well. T4 W1 6+ is really easy to single out, and just tap with a bolter. The only time I've seen them work was on Arena terrain (which is 2D zone mortalis with lots of LOS blocking stuff). Elite Nobs are overpriced, but at least they don't fold to bolter fire, can take powerstabbas and slightly help out other orks with morale.

 r_squared wrote:

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
Does anybody know of the Sisters' Penitent engine is comparable on size to a Deaf Dread? From the suggestions here I like giving dreads a go and these models with an ork bolted onto them would be ace!

I played a friend with the new SoB box set and the engine was smaller than a deff dredd, about killa kan size but much taller. It could be done, but it'd look puny next to another deff dread.

Interesting - pics without scale can be misleading...

I've built a few looted ork walkers, and avoiding the 'puny' look is pretty easy - after a mek salvages a broken Penitent Engine from the battlefield, naturally the first thing he does is add thick armor over any gaping holes This can be spare parts from the bits box, or plastic card with bolts and rivets glued on.

 JawRippa wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Now I try to use them in Killteam [distraction carnifex and glasscannon experience btw.).

From my experience in KT, they are trashy there as well. T4 W1 6+ is really easy to single out, and just tap with a bolter. The only time I've seen them work was on Arena terrain (which is 2D zone mortalis with lots of LOS blocking stuff). Elite Nobs are overpriced, but at least they don't fold to bolter fire, can take powerstabbas and slightly help out other orks with morale.

Yeah... You are propably right. Now they works fine. Because they never shoot a single shot, others do not know, they are weak and shoot them first (so the burnas can never shoot). Works fine like a “cover” for my Nobz running up the hill... temporarily....

 Tomsug wrote:
Sorry man, only good excuse for burnas is the model - it is great.

8” range = 0% chance to flame after DS. In fact this mean very low chance to even shoot before T3 = useless

Here idea was to put them on chinork. That's over 30" threat range=T1 you go in and flame whateveer you want while also providing some protection against bolters. On foot sure it's crap. With that maybe not so worthless in casual enviroment.

Use flash gitz together with elements that are scary and upfront, then the gitz won't be the first target and can shoot in round two mostly at full bs

I've started playing GSC casually and there are parallels to be drawn with the acolyte with hand flamers in comparison to ork burnas.
Acolytes are taken quite regularly because of a number of reasons despite being as squishy as orks. The weapons are broadly similar in that they are pointless out of deepstrike, have low str, auto hits and no ap.
That's where the similarities end.

Firstly, the GSC weapon is cheap, 1ppm. It's also d6 shots, which makes up a bit for its lower str and range. However, what makes these really playable is the strategems you can employ to make them useful screen clearers. For 2cp I can setup 3" away and shoot.
Now, consider that for 160pts I can take 20 of these things and set them upto 3" away from an enemy unit, even with a range of 6" thats 20x d6 auto hits. That's going to do good work against most things.

Basically, what Im trying to say is that burnas could be great even at their current price point if there was anything in the codex that supported them and allowed them to actually do anything.

For example, if we had a bloodaxe strategem that allowed them to pop up in range and either shoot or charge, they would be awesome.

T1nk4bell wrote:
Use flash gitz together with elements that are scary and upfront, then the gitz won't be the first target and can shoot in round two mostly at full bs

I think the issue stems that marines probably have enough firepower to kill the front and your exposed gitz.

I think 10 gitz in a trukk or wagon or 6 in a big trakk get the job done. I don’t think pure FB can even remotely compete anymore if the big dogs can’t.

Nah you get me wrong. You need them in a trukk not without.
I meant 19 in trukk or battelwagon + front pressure ( 2-3 flier) buggys, boys or something.
Without trukk, Chinork or bw they will be instand dead

Gotcha.

Orks down to a 40% win rate. Brutal.

https://www.goonhammer.com/state-of-the-40k-meta-january-2020/

Well orks no chance vs marine meta

Orks dont really have much of an issue with any non-vanilla marine codex, even the other marines i dont really have problems with. Not autowin but doesnt feel like an unfair uphill battle where 1-2 units counter 80% of my army at least.

I wager if you could find winrates against regular marines and against anything else the % would be drastically different.

Jep I feel the same.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Orks dont really have much of an issue with any non-vanilla marine codex, even the other marines i dont really have problems with. Not autowin but doesnt feel like an unfair uphill battle where 1-2 units counter 80% of my army at least.

I wager if you could find winrates against regular marines and against anything else the % would be drastically different.

Agree. I'd also point out that ITC is a bit biased against orks, as ITC rewards models and units killed when losing models en masse is kind of our signature thing. Many of my wins against marines using the CA 2018 missions would have been losses if ITC rules were used.

That too.
I used to like ITC rules and missions but now days....i feel like if we did them i would auto-lose if i didnt table my opponent every game. Obviously thats not necessarily the case but it sure feels like it.

Well the somewhat funny thing is, the fact that marines are badasses that can take a punch and slaughter their enemies is fluffy and probably fun for the marine player

The fact that Ork stuff is fragile, shoots ton, and promotes taking a lot of units that will end up blowing up (sometimes in hilarious fashion) is fun and appropriate.

Having a ruleset that extra rewards tabling your opponent promotes some of the lists you'll see at ITC (3 TFCs, 3 Scorpius whirlwinds) that I wager Orks could hard counter by simply holding objectives with cheap, disposable units (Grots, boys).

Both of these styles should be valid in a healthy meta.

I am of the opinion that movement , holding ground, and deployment makes for a more interesting game than who can win mathhammer.

The CA missions, albeit not perfect, I think promote a more interesting style of gaming than ITC.

They definitely do. I havnt randomly picked a mission in CA19 yet that made me go "uh....lets not do that one" lol

I'm used to basic 6 objectives get a vp every turn you control one or the OLD way ITC ruled it of every 100pts killed is a point for my games. Its nice to actually have some variety that isnt biased (or at least not heavily biased)

tneva82 wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Sorry man, only good excuse for burnas is the model - it is great.

8” range = 0% chance to flame after DS. In fact this mean very low chance to even shoot before T3 = useless

Here idea was to put them on chinork. That's over 30" threat range=T1 you go in and flame whateveer you want while also providing some protection against bolters. On foot sure it's crap. With that maybe not so worthless in casual enviroment.

Better use nobs with kombi-skorchas instead. If the Chinork is destroyed you have a tough nob squad with a 3+ save. Used or one at a tourney and it was a lot of fun, although very expensive and not entirely worth the points.

Well I have. But that's because I keep rolling same mission ridiculously high frequency In CA19 it's the disruptive tactics or whatever where opponent sees your top 3 cards and puts one on bottom. Still 2 missions I have yet to try...

But CA19 missions are rather fun.

The most fun I've had to date was a recent Four Pillars Eternal War mission.

Maelstrom's biggest fault I think is that some of the faction specific cards are way too good. Seeing Eldar get 8 VP off of casting 3+ psychic powers is a bit hard to catch up in (they get 2 cards with that bonus, and it can be given a bonus VP in some missions...)

When playing Maelstrom, do any of you play the BRB cards in stead of the ork specific ones? Some of the ork cards (except advance three units per turn) seem more difficult that just camping an objective.

Obviously, an objective underneath a turtled enemy isn't going to happen, but those in the middle seem easy and practically default if they are on your side.

Which do you play?

 JimOnMars wrote:
When playing Maelstrom, do any of you play the BRB cards in stead of the ork specific ones? Some of the ork cards (except advance three units per turn) seem more difficult that just camping an objective.

Obviously, an objective underneath a turtled enemy isn't going to happen, but those in the middle seem easy and practically default if they are on your side.

Which do you play?

I take standard deck and just don't take the hard ones. As you build 18-20(in case game goes for 7 turns) you need to trim down anyway. I like the characterful cards so with all my armies I use some of the faction specific ones. Getting VP's when your own unit dies(more if character) with sisters of battle is just fun

 JimOnMars wrote:
When playing Maelstrom, do any of you play the BRB cards in stead of the ork specific ones? Some of the ork cards (except advance three units per turn) seem more difficult that just camping an objective.

Obviously, an objective underneath a turtled enemy isn't going to happen, but those in the middle seem easy and practically default if they are on your side.

Which do you play?

I don’t currently have my rule books with me but if I recall correctly they are worded such that the faction specific cards aren’t optional. With the CA19 Maelstrom rules it isn’t such an issue as it has been previously, they really help mitigate the chances of bad cards.

Yeah but at least here they are generally optional. Yeah house rule but as tournaments play it like that it's how it's played so those who want more secures can do so.

 JimOnMars wrote:
When playing Maelstrom, do any of you play the BRB cards in stead of the ork specific ones? Some of the ork cards (except advance three units per turn) seem more difficult that just camping an objective.

Obviously, an objective underneath a turtled enemy isn't going to happen, but those in the middle seem easy and practically default if they are on your side.

Which do you play?

Haven't played new maelstrom yet, but in CA 2018 I always scored tons of points from gretchin or boyz standing on objectives, so I'd probably go all out on capture objectives. Not sure about the defend ones though. Killing stuff is usually difficult to plan ahead for orks, as low AP and swingy shooting units often leave with barely missing objectives when the dice don't line up. I've had games where I didn't kill a single unit in close combat besides the klaw boss, so anything related to that is out, too.