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yukishiro1 wrote:
Warboss on warbike is such an efficient choice it's tough to see any list I wouldn't bring him in. Especially with the massive buff you get for 1CP. I mean I guess if you run Ghaz, maybe...lol.

Yup, that's totally fair. I do think you take a Trike to advance them, though! I think they can get their turn 2 with 9" movement, re-rolling advance no problem.

What do you think of their weapon kit? Big Shoota / Kan Klaw @ 35 points?

Tin Headz is literally the only subkulture that'll see use, that is in a semi-comp or comp list. All the other ones simply dont affect enough stuff to justify an entire detachment of that subkulture. Especially when most of them flatout dont benefit the HQs, yet you still need to bring them, and losing the klan tag on some characters can be a major pain at times.

It affects a LOT of units that are commonly used, so you could build (minus grot troops) a proper detachment where everybody benefits from it, unlike the other subkultures, and the bonus is powerful enough to justify a KFF Mek or Waaagh Banner Nob despite those 2 not actually benefiting from the subkulture (though the MegaMek would, probably wouldnt keep up unless it kept rolling very well on advances)

I actually want more kanz now. I have a squad of 6 with magnetic rokkits, though no alternate arms yet since until now rokkits were the only one you'd want to use anyway (now bigshoota is viable since it cuts a ton of points and their melee can be a proper threat instead of just lucky-kill potential)

I already use a naut in every game and have been trying to include Meganobz, and even been using the MegaMek despite it being kinda lackluster. So that subkulture is amazing to me.

With Da Kleverest Mek and Tin Heads, you could bring his WS down to a 1+... 2+ to hit on his Klaw. That's actually not bad. Have something like Fist of Gork handy, and with like a Warboss, Mad Dok, maybe a wartrike, you have a lot of viable, krumpy CC characters.

tulun wrote:

 wannabmoy wrote:
Hey all!

Chicago's very own local Orks legend, Dustin Quebedeaux (placed 58th place besting Brandon Grant by 1 spot), talks tactics with Grots and Killa Kans in GDFC's latest tactica piece.

If interested, check it out below!

https://www.grimdarkfilthycasuals.com/orks-tactica-building-a-better-tin-can/

I was actually thinking about Tin Heads this morning.

Killa Kans w/ Tin Eads kind of feel like bulky MANz (at 35 points each, they have 5 wounds, T5, 3+ save, similar number of attacks). I actually think there is probably some potential, but I disagree with his assessment on the Trike.

I think *probably* the way you make this list work is bringing the Trike w/ Breakin' heads, so you don't necessarily need a Warboss (although bringing a warboss is not necessarily a bad idea) -- but it would allow you to save 80-108 points, which is potentially another 3 KK or MANz if you're going Tin Heads anyway. I would probably also give them the +3" movement, so they can really get up there fast.

Question is: Do we keep them cheap (IE Big shoota) or go for the rockets? Even advancing, those rockets hit a on 5+. And I assume we go for the Kan Klaw (+3 str, ap-3, 3 Damage)?

I kind of think it would be fun to field a KK / MANz Tin head detachment. Would it be good? maybe not.

I think you're going to find it better than you'd think. That is the case with a lot of the "upgrades" to armies through PA. Whether it's TOP-TIER competitive, who knows. But it'll be a ton of fun and can be played very competitively.

 Jidmah wrote:
Huh, good point, I only realized now that kustom job is a stratagem, so you can pick them depending on your opponent, allowing you to switch between games.

It's an awesome job, but who do I give it to? The gunwagons need the other jobs, and I still have the problem of not having any passengers for my bonebreakas - the one guy worth transporting turned into a MONSTER.


IMO the slugg gubbin is the superior choice for the Gorkanaut, as the skorcha auto-hits anyways and the extra shots are better than +1 to hit on a pair of rokkits and a bunch of big shootas.
I also think that the shiny gubbin on the morkanaut make it a better target for kustom ammo than the SSAG.

The fact that the Kustom Jobs are pre-game strats is massive. Gives us a ton of flexibility.

Forktress goes on Bonebreaka that has either 10 Grots or 10/12 Boyz (to be mobbed up). I love me a Bonebreaka.

Good shout on the Gorkanaut/Morkanaut assessment.

Did y'all this?

It's hilariously bad.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/26/ghazghkull-can-he-krump-it/

Yeah. I laughed.
No joke he beats all that in 1on1 combat. He can only take 4 damage and very reliably wipes the floor with anyone that doesnt lucky-invul everything.
Will he ever get to fight something without being down to 4 wounds anyway? probably not.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah. I laughed.
No joke he beats all that in 1on1 combat. He can only take 4 damage and very reliably wipes the floor with anyone that doesnt lucky-invul everything.
Will he ever get to fight something without being down to 4 wounds anyway? probably not.

You know, his 285 point cost makes sense now.

They literally balanced him like this:

Start him on the board in CC with all these units. See what happens.

"He wins them all! He's Da Beast!" Well, gotta crank up his points then, ship it.

oh i dont doubt it.

GW has proven time and time again that they dont seem to think about CC models actually having to REACH combat in their price, both for units that lack anything that boost their speed or ones that have it seemingly being the same cost (factoring stat differences)
Technically Nobz w/ Bigchoppas are stupid deadly for their cost. 3A at S7 AP1 2D hitting on 3s for 19pts on a 2w model? That sounds amazing....except they tend to be reduced down to 1-2 models if even alive at all by the time they see combat.

Kinda like how they are horribly bad at factoring how valuable rerolls are, especially Wound variety.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Tin Headz is literally the only subkulture that'll see use, that is in a semi-comp or comp list. All the other ones simply dont affect enough stuff to justify an entire detachment of that subkulture. Especially when most of them flatout dont benefit the HQs, yet you still need to bring them, and losing the klan tag on some characters can be a major pain at times.

It affects a LOT of units that are commonly used, so you could build (minus grot troops) a proper detachment where everybody benefits from it, unlike the other subkultures, and the bonus is powerful enough to justify a KFF Mek or Waaagh Banner Nob despite those 2 not actually benefiting from the subkulture (though the MegaMek would, probably wouldnt keep up unless it kept rolling very well on advances)

I actually want more kanz now. I have a squad of 6 with magnetic rokkits, though no alternate arms yet since until now rokkits were the only one you'd want to use anyway (now bigshoota is viable since it cuts a ton of points and their melee can be a proper threat instead of just lucky-kill potential)

I already use a naut in every game and have been trying to include Meganobz, and even been using the MegaMek despite it being kinda lackluster. So that subkulture is amazing to me.

.

I could see Boomboyz or whatever it's called getting a lot of use as well. A squad of Tankbustaz all shooting with lascannon equivalents is nasty. Could even be worth including a Gunwagon or 2 with S9 AP-3 Killkannons.

Yeah thats a close second.
Technically no good HQ choice but weirdboyz are always a default for that problem, and nobody cares about grots (they can protect the weirdboy from snipers anyway so not even grot shields is lost, or in your case the tankbustas). If youre trying to use a subkulture you probably dont care about the kulture specific spells either.

Technically losing Shoot Again is painful, but personally i HATE not having tankbustas in a vehicle. Their presence alone is a distraction that draws attention, even if they arent doing anything becuase theyre hiding from LoS until i can kill those random lascannons, my opponents will often duck away from my army to try and get them before its too late.

...now that i say that i kinda wanna run a wagon Forktress with tankbustas in it and 2 Gunwagons, assuming Da Booma works giving that to one of them too. Lord knows i got enough wagons to do that and then some....lol

Megatrakk aren't even terrible in them either. 5 shots average a turn that get upgraded.

Rocket Deff Koptas, Rocket Kans... Loads of options to lean into.

Can even get 10 man boy squads w/ 2 rockets, in a Rocket (index) trukk.

The Grot Megatank gets 7 BS4+ rockets for 169 points lol. 24.14 points per rocket.. even has a built in invul. It can go to BS3+ with the mutiny roll

I don't think grot megatanks or kans can be affected by the subkultures outside of the grot specific one. As much as i'd love to. Kans and grot tanks would do okay with boomboyz.

cody.d. wrote:
I don't think grot megatanks or kans can be affected by the subkultures outside of the grot specific one. As much as i'd love to. Kans and grot tanks would do okay with boomboyz.

Actually, it looks like they do. Like huntas says all infantry *but* gretchin; Tin Heads add Killa Kans. I think they exclude gretchin specifically, not implicitly, given these are not the same rules as Kulturs.

I dunno, in the codex just before warlord traits and klan rules it does say that grots get culture IE the keyword but unless specified do not get any benefit. Tin eads does specifically say Kans but besides the grot one I don't think any of them add any of the runtz as being affected.

The rule test for subcultures is different from that and makes no exception for gretchin.
You replace all clan keywords with the subculture and then every model gets the culture - whether this does anything is another matter.
Subcultures do not use the rules for regular cultures, but are a separate thing.

Gretchin says they dont benefit from the "kulture"
These are "subkultures" - unless its like the Bolter rule where "for the intents of this rule all weapons containing 'Bolt' are affected" then that slight difference does matter.

They already mentioned Buzzgob, so they are writing it with awareness of FW - which is REALLY WEIRD for GW to actually pay attention to those possibilities (probably due to the IH + Leviathan issue)

Megatank would be affected by Boomboyz and Grot kulture, though i dont THINK anything else would apply. Boomboyz doesnt mention a unit, it mentions a weapon, and megatanks are covered in rokkits. I was planning to kitbash one before our codex came out and completely dumped on any gretchin model so i abandoned that idea, i may revisit that plan.

Actually it definitely works because they mentioned Grot Tanks in the grot army, i dont see why Grot Tank would and Grot Mega Tank would not.

I wonder if when the new FW book comes out we'll get some extra kustom jobs options for the FW stuff, because right now very little if any of them is legal on FW stuff.

About FW, the higher awareness is more likely because they now actually have the same guys writing those things. Which is good!

As for the gretchin discussion, I suggest reading the rules right in front of the sub culture descriptions. It's a complete separate mechanism from cultures that overwrites the clan keywords.

So just to be clear, the burna strat deals MW on the enemy 7nit within 6 ONLY on 5+, not only can’t it benefit from the arsonist subculture, it doesn’t get the +1 to wound if target is Infantry, right ?

Burna strat states it doesnt benefit from that subkulture so yeah its locked to 5+

So I just realized I can FINALLY do a proper representation of Grukk Facerippa on the table. Warboss with Biggest Boss strat, Supa Cybork relic and Brutal but Kunnin' with his personal Forktress Bonebreaka war chariot Killa Klaw is also a possibility but I've personally always liked my beatsticks tanky.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Burna strat states it doesnt benefit from that subkulture so yeah its locked to 5+

Thanks, but that part is more than explicit
It’s the infantry thing I am more dubious bout. Did they forget the bonus against infantry or was it deliberate (to not make the strat too potent ?)

Ah i see what you mean now.

I would wager no because its a completely separate rule causing it to "splash" to the next unit, not "resolve this again on that unit, but you dont benefit from the Arsonist subkulture"

It's also just 1 CP and much more reliable than most other "do mortal wounds" stratagems out there.

yeah, it probably does more mortals than the 3cp freeboota broadside stratagem. Which just further shows how stupid that strat is.

 Jidmah wrote:
The rule test for subcultures is different from that and makes no exception for gretchin.
You replace all clan keywords with the subculture and then every model gets the culture - whether this does anything is another matter.
Subcultures do not use the rules for regular cultures, but are a separate thing.

That's my reading as well, since sub cultures aren't ARMY wide anyway. They are far more narrow in what units they target. Seems like they were including restrictions pretty clearly in the descriptions (See: Huntas).

I was talking with a friend of mine that works with the FAQ team. They leaked some news so his ndr Is not threatened ATM.

They should announce 9th soon enough (tomorrow maybe?), What is gonna change is:

- Smaller boards (4'*4' ?)
- Suggested army size 1500
- Terrain rules like 5th edition - ish
- Tournament rules


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is not a rumor, is a fact, the only thing is when is gonna happen, given Nurgle year

Ebook drops tomorrow. I know a lot of folks want that good physical copy in their hands, but this might be the best we get until whenever Corona becomes a more manageable pandemic.

tulun wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
The rule test for subcultures is different from that and makes no exception for gretchin.
You replace all clan keywords with the subculture and then every model gets the culture - whether this does anything is another matter.
Subcultures do not use the rules for regular cultures, but are a separate thing.

That's my reading as well, since sub cultures aren't ARMY wide anyway. They are far more narrow in what units they target. Seems like they were including restrictions pretty clearly in the descriptions (See: Huntas).

While I agree that as written many of the subcultures do work on grots, I'm more worried about them deciding to change that in the FAQ. They chucked anything with the gretchin tag under the bus once, so they might again.

 flandarz wrote:
Ebook drops tomorrow. I know a lot of folks want that good physical copy in their hands, but this might be the best we get until whenever Corona becomes a more manageable pandemic.

Yeah, it's with a :sadface: but I'll get the eBook as well so I can prep a Wolf army and so I can dust off and build some Orkz while I'm locked up at home (and continue to build my TSons).