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Hello Dakka!

As the title suggests I thought it would be an interesting question to ask you to think about your favourite model/unit (could be for it's fluff, the models looks or if it just captures one of your favourite tactical elements of the game) that just isn't doing much anymore. Maybe it's been overtaken by a newer, shinier choice in its codex, maybe over time its role has just become faaaar too niche or just maybe it's plain bad in the transition to 8th.

This is a challenge to change the unit in as minor way as possible to make it fill it's main role to an acceptable standard, not to make it undeniably crazy/OP.

I'll start - Soul Grinders. I love these damn things, hell I am the only person I know of still who runs multiple of these loveable, overly spikey chaos platypus's. It's just a confused beast with a MONSTEROUS close combat profile... hitting on 4's. And supposed to be a major source of Daemon's firepower but all it's ranged weapons are heavy. and It's BS 4+ with no ability to ignore the -1 to move and shoot. I'm sensing a problem here.

My proposal is simple, change the weapon profiles to assault instead of heavy. This lets you run it forward to engage as it's claw and Sword are far too tasty to leave doing nothing, and it's ranged attacks aren't really enough to justify it standing still and doing nothing.

I ask you dakka, to comment on each others idea's and to come up with your own as minor as possible tweaks to change an underperforming unit! (and please, when the inevitable marine topic gets brought up, +1 wound to all marines isn't a minor tweak!)

Scarabs / Flayed Ones to TROOP slot

Sniper rifles to Always wound on 2+ vs non vehicles (keeping MW on 6+)

Tesla destructors to Damage 2

Monoliths to get the same guns as Destroyers = worth their points.

Canoptek Spyders to get double their wounds

_________

I'd start on space marines but I think forum posts have a character limit !!

On the sniper question I could agree on 4+ vs infantry, but a 2+ against all monstrous creatures and bigger seems a little much.

Love the flayed ones change though! And to be honest the Monolith definitely needs that and more to be worth its points cost.

Add heretic astartes and adeptus astartes keywords to Cypher and fallen.

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
On the sniper question I could agree on 4+ vs infantry, but a 2+ against all monstrous creatures and bigger seems a little much.

a single wound with 0AP is already easily saved against ... and if you're taking snipers vs. monsters then you're in a bad place lol

but it would make them a threat at least, where currently no-one is afraid of a sniper squad ... at all .. 5 sniper rifles from the top of a building should be straight up killing weak characters ... but they do less than mot bolt guns

Terminators (across the board, Chaos and Loyalist, special versions and base versions, everything that says "Terminator" and predates 8e (ignore for Allarus and Deathshrouds)) +1W/+1A, persistent option for power sword/axe/maul instead of powerfist, no -1 to hit on powerfists. Gravis armour (to keep it in line here) +1W/+1A, no -1 to hit for powerfists.

Custodians: Drop Wardens as a separate unit entry and allow the axes on Troops squads.

(Hard to think up "small tweaks" for most of my favourite units given that a lot of them are 30k models with no 40k rules, or need a ground-up rebuild more than a tweak...)

Allow IG Veteran Squads to be a Troops selection, only if all Troops selections in a detachment are Vets (so you have a Veteran Detachment, sort of thing).

This may not be a slight change at all, but here goes:

Eldar Windriders get moved BACK to Troops, but can only take 1 Shuricannon or Scatterlaser per 3 models.
Create a new Fast Attack unit of Windriders (called Wild Riders or something) that must take all take Shuricannons or Scatterlasers.

Everyone wins. Eldar get their bike Troops again, but with limited weapons and GW gets to market the existing kit as another 2 units in 1 box

Regular Space Marine Sarges get +1 wound +1 attack

Apothecaries can take any special weapon or combi weapon to replace their bolt pistol / chainsword.

Space Marine Power armor reduces incoming damage by 1 (to a minimum of 1). That,OR Space Marine Power armor reduces the AP of the incoming attack by 1. So an AP-3 weapon is now Ap-2 etc. That second one might actually be too much, but I feel like one of those would go a long way towards making MEQs worth their points. Especially on the CSM side of things.


Move Reavers to the "Troops" slot. They are intended to be the "Scouts" of the Primaris marines, but significantly under perform next to a lot of the choices in the Elites slot. I think making them a troops choice would not only get them to the table more, it would also help to make an all Primaris army more viable.

boy I can't wait to read all the small buffs people will give space marines (All space marines get +6W, 1+ armor saves, boltguns up to Assault 12, all AP up to -3 is ignored, and +19 attacks - THEN they'd be balanced at 13ppm!)

I got one: Hellions.

Change stunclaw to S: User, AP-, D1 (so, worse than the default weapon), grants the squad No Escape while the bearer is alive.

Change the current ability to take a Phantasm Grenade Launcher to "darkness grenades" and write some absurd fluff about how they temporarily detach the retinas from the synapses or some other such ridiculous Dark Eldar weapon fluff.

15 points, squad cannot be targeted by overwatch attacks while the bearer is alive.

Then, give the Hellglaive AP-1.

I think at that point you have a unit with a niche: they charge out of DS semi-reliably, primarily exist in a support role providing Wych Cult armies the ability to avoid Overwatch and harassing enemy squads who are less scary in cc.

Tycho wrote:
Space Marine Power armor reduces incoming damage by 1 (to a minimum of 1). That,OR Space Marine Power armor reduces the AP of the incoming attack by 1. So an AP-3 weapon is now Ap-2 etc. That second one might actually be too much, but I feel like one of those would go a long way towards making MEQs worth their points. Especially on the CSM side of things.


Move Reavers to the "Troops" slot. They are intended to be the "Scouts" of the Primaris marines, but significantly under perform next to a lot of the choices in the Elites slot. I think making them a troops choice would not only get them to the table more, it would also help to make an all Primaris army more viable.

Give reivers sarges option to take power weapons/ power fists. Give them an ability to generate attacks.

Give hellions +1A. Or +1S.

IG veterans to troops please... 1000x please. I miss mechanized vet, and aircav vet regiments.

Heavy Plasma Incinerator to Heavy 2 from Heavy 1.

Make it the Primaris plasma cannon it should have been.

Vendettas get the Strafing Run rule from Vultures, so they get +1 to hit units that don't have the "Fly" keyword.

Land Speeders; ignore -1 to hit when moving.
Solved.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

w1zard wrote:
IG veterans to troops please... 1000x please. I miss mechanized vet, and aircav vet regiments.

Yeah, stormtroopers as troops but not veterans ? What the hell... I really need vet troops too.

All my favourite units are now Primaris lol...

- Redemptor - ignore the penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons

- Reivers - add -1AP on the knife

- Primaris Lieutenants - can now take a power sword/fist in addition to the master crafted flavour of bolt rifle

- Hellblasters - the heavy plasma incinerator set to heavy 2

- Intercessors - the stalker bolt rifle set to heavy 2

But some old favourites I wish were better...

- Terminators - halve all damage taken to a minimum of 1

- Assault marines - +1 attack

- Tactical marines - scaling weapon upgrade slots like MT Scions

- Captains and Primaris captains - add CP to your army if part of a Battalion detachment

 godardc wrote:
Land Speeders; ignore -1 to hit when moving.
Solved.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

w1zard wrote:
IG veterans to troops please... 1000x please. I miss mechanized vet, and aircav vet regiments.

Yeah, stormtroopers as troops but not veterans ? What the hell... I really need vet troops too.

I'd actually be OK with them making vets cost 6 points per model instead of 5 if we could just get them as troops :( A 100% mechanized list would be a lot of fun, but no veteran troops is what's killing it for me.

Give reivers sarges option to take power weapons/ power fists. Give them an ability to generate attacks.

I'd like to see that AND get them moved to the Troops slot, but that's probably getting too greedy.

Lychguard:

Increase their dispersion shield save to a 3+ invulnerable
Allow their dispersion shields to cause a MW on a save roll of a 6
Give Warscythes a shooting attack again, same as the Gauss Flayer.

I would really love my sisters of silence to have a FNP rule.
Use it to represent their voidsheen cloaks.

Also for the love of the emperor give us rules for using Jenetia Krole in 40k or atleast an HQ datasheet for her to use.

Ice_can wrote:
I would really love my sisters of silence to have a FNP rule.
Use it to represent their voidsheen cloaks.

Also for the love of the emperor give us rules for using Jenetia Krole in 40k or atleast an HQ datasheet for her to use.

Is that the forgeworld model where you get the SoS posed with her arm out and the sword, but you pay 70$ for her and get her in bendtastic resin instead of 8$ for plastic?

Terminators, would have all incoming damage reduced by one wound, to a minimum of one wound so D2 weapons do D1, D3 do D2, 1d6 becomes 1d6-1 (min 1) etc

Death company are fearless and 2 pts cheaper.

the_scotsman wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
I would really love my sisters of silence to have a FNP rule.
Use it to represent their voidsheen cloaks.

Also for the love of the emperor give us rules for using Jenetia Krole in 40k or atleast an HQ datasheet for her to use.

Is that the forgeworld model where you get the SoS posed with her arm out and the sword, but you pay 70$ for her and get her in bendtastic resin instead of 8$ for plastic?

Jesus you guys are paying some trump tax if GW is scalping you for 70$. Hey I'll take forgeworld resin over failcast any day of the week.

Give Mechanicus either the option to take rhino transports (they make them after all) or the option to have the scout move back (only on skitarii) from 7th ed.

Wraithknight - give it a 5+ FNP, cut the cost of its weapons by half

The Archon

I've got 3 proposed changes for him:

1) Change his useless aura to: "At the beginning of your shooting phase, you may nominate a single enemy unit within 18" of the Archon (or 18" of a transport he's currently embarked on). Until the beginning of your next turn, all friendly Drukhari units reroll 1s to hit when attacking the chosen unit."

(Writ of the Living Muse will be tweaked so that Drukhari units also reroll 1s to wound against the nominated unit.)

This cements the Archon as the leader of the army (not just the Kabal bits) and allows him to buff units in transports and/or while riding in a transport himself. Of course, the downside is that you have to get closer to your target (so no more sitting back with 3 Ravagers 36" away), and you can only give rerolls against 1 unit per turn. The latter part would make additional Archons serve an actual purpose, as opposed to just being dead-weight (as they currently are).


2) Change Shadowfield so that when the Archon fails a save it's reduced to a 5++ save, rather than being lost entirely. It means that, whilst he's still very vulnerable, he's not entirely defenceless once his Shadowfield is lost.


3) Let the Archon take Scourge Wings for, giving him movement 14" and the Deep Strike rule.



Succubus

Give her Archite Glaive Power Fist stats. It's absolutely ludicrous that it has a -1 to hit in spite of being orders of magnitude worse than a power fist (worse strength and just a single point of damage). Blood Glaive remains the same except that it does 3 damage (rather than d3).

Boom. Now our melee HQ is actually worth a damn in melee.


I could also suggest a few other things, like making the Agoniser Poison 3+, giving the Huskblade +1 Strength, taking the person who wrote Drazhar's rules and firing him out of a cannon, and giving the Liquifier Gun rerolls to wound. But I'd be willing to settle for the above.


Kabalite Warriors

2 special weapons per 5. Alternatively, give the Blast Pistol 12" range.

(Not an idea fix but at least this way they can actually bring some meaningful firepower to the table.)



Necron Destroyer Lord.

Change his aura to "Re-roll wound rolls of 1 for friendly <DYNASTY> INFANTRY and BEAST units that are within 6" of this model."

Now you don't have a melee unit who'd stuck trying to buff backfield ranged units.

I'd also consider making Scarabs troops, even if you want to impose some limit on them (e.g. for each unit of Warriors or Immortals in a detachment, you may include a unit of Scarabs as Troops in the same detachment).

I'd give Storm Guardians Lasblasters, or maybe a weaker version (24" assault3 s3 ap0? 18"? Adjust points as necessary ofc).

My reasons are simple; if you're a dying race you don't equip your civilians with gakky close combat weapons! Defenders have a hard enough time making any kind of sense since the range of shuriken catapults was halved (many years ago).