Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I love Eldar, always have. They were my first army in high school and still my primary army.

Of the things that GW has arbitrarily changed, the removal of Psykers as competent fighters is probably the most insulting one. While never on par with some stronger units, Farseers and Master Warlocks etc. used to actually be able to fight their way out of trouble if needed, with incredibly strong witchblades, singing spears which could hurt vehicles when rolled properly, etc. Farseers were even toughness four because of their body crystalizing over time.

They're now the most comically underwhelming, hapless models in the Eldar army. While possessing good psychic powers, a Farseer is just a joke when anything, from any army gets within slapping range. Now we get a toughness three model with two attacks, and a weapon with no AP.

So, in short...I'd rewrite their stats and bump their costs appropriately.

Marines get +1 Attack.

Primaris/Marines can fit into any space marine transport; Primaris count as 2 models.

Necron Gauss autowounds on a “To Hit” roll of 6.

Lictors can be taken in squads of 1-3.

Canifexes have a WS 3+ (Yes, that means with Living Battering Ram they hit on a 2+ when charging).

Tau Marker Lights don’t use a table and can be fired in addition to regular weapons in place of moving. Place a marker token beside the unit they “hit”. You can spend a token to give a unit a +1 bonus to hit* or increase AP by -1* or fire a Seeker Missile at BS 2+. Token is expended after use (so it only benefits one squad at most).

* can’t be stacked by spending multiple tokens.

Kataphron Breachers.
basicly this ad mech troop selection did not transition to 8th all that well (when was the last time you saw them on the table??). it is ment to be elite troop infantry(minimum 3 models per unit) but it is far from it. it lacks survivability and anti horde weps.
ironicly, this unit is ment to be the guys who spearhead and moves in first, while the destroyers hang out in the back, yet the destoyers has all the anti horde weps..........

so, suggestion:
add 1 to the wounds making it W4. (not shure if changing from t5 to t6 would help their survivability..)
then give breacher 1 wep selections that destroyers has, the heavy grav-cannon while giving the destryers the torsion cannon from the breachers.

now atleast the breacher has the tools to be what it is ment to be.
as it is right now, i feel it is very usless in many ways. cant stay in the fight agasint all the plasma, and cant deal enugh dmg to horde as it only has heavy2 weps.
the grav-cannon would be the anti horde wep as it is a heavy5 wep.

idealy i feel that the breachers allso would have more use of the flamer then what the destryer has but that might make them too good, if they can use both a heavy5 and a flamer.


so, am i on the right path here?

Ghostkeel

Increase the stealth drone cost by a few points and either make them a character or attatch them to the unit. It makes no sense for them to not be following the ghostkeel around as it is and having to try and achieve LOS shenannigans to stop them from being targeted by everyone and their dog is a losing battle.

I could be talked up to making all such command/utility drones share in this benefit, as all they do is float nearby and keep a low profile rather than actively shoot back and make a nuisance of themselves.

Kroot carnivores

Remove the +1 str that the kroot rifle affords and return +1 attack with the gun. leave all other stats as is.

As it stands, there's no reason to take kroot carnivores over kroot hounds, other than obtaining the models. The old extra attack (presumably for the additional blade on the other end of the rifle) would help the few that actually survive until contact with the enemy do some damage, the +1 to wound against GEQ units is nice but just not enough to help their survivability, their ability to fight back, and to help differentiate them more against their hounds (who get a -1 ap). An argument could be made to swap +1 attack to +1 damage instead at the cost of making the krootox even more obsolete.

The following may make all this obsolete however....

Kroot Shaper

Increase ld to 8, Ritual blade +1 str, move to HQ slot.

The shaper is in an odd spot at the moment, it is meant to help increase the survivability of the kroot and their poor leadership but is shacked up in the already overcrowded elite slots.
Moving it to a HQ slot will free up more space for suits of many flavours as well as relieve some pressure of the 1 commander per detatchment limit.
Increasing the leadership will help his buff bubble, and increasing the str of the ritual blade will help it against the GEQ units and make the kill it needs to activate its ability. You could swap this for -1ap (but would step on the toes of the hounds) or to 2 damage (would step on the toes of the krootox).
Regardless the move to HQ is a must.

The potential exists for changing the wording slightly on the ritual blade to trigger its special ability on the wounding of an enemy model rather than the killing of an enemy model, though most things you would get a shaper to fight would only have one wound anyway.

Am not sure a slight change to GK could fix them.
If they are to cost as much as they do, all GK units need one maybe two extra rules, which have real impact on the game and not something that makes demons re-roll save rolls of 6 within 3" of GK units.

So either a strong offensive rule and some utility or resiliance buff. Or they would have to be super tanky, with specilised lists.

Karol wrote:
Am not sure a slight change to GK could fix them.
If they are to cost as much as they do, all GK units need one maybe two extra rules, which have real impact on the game and not something that makes demons re-roll save rolls of 6 within 3" of GK units.

So either a strong offensive rule and some utility or resiliance buff. Or they would have to be super tanky, with specilised lists.

Grey knights require an overhaul that would mean rereleasing their entire codex. There is no slight change they can have right now that would be worth the time invested here.

Eh. I'd simply increase the cost of Tactical Marines back to 3E points, and bump Primaris accordingly. Problem solved! Everybody else automatically gets better!

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Eh. I'd simply increase the cost of Tactical Marines back to 3E points, and bump Primaris accordingly. Problem solved! Everybody else automatically gets better!

Can't tell if this a joke or a troll comment

WraithKnights and Wraithlords, constructions animated by Spirit Stones, should have the option to take Spirit Stones.
Wraithlords should also only be 9Ws, instead of 10, so they don't have a damage chart.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Eh. I'd simply increase the cost of Tactical Marines back to 3E points, and bump Primaris accordingly. Problem solved! Everybody else automatically gets better!

Can't tell if this a joke or a troll comment

Deadly serious. Loyalists are uninteresting to me, and serve as the inexpensive entry army. Every other army should smack them around a bit, like a Worf. Want to win? Spend more on something else.

This has already been said, but having + 1 W on terminator, and maybe with an invulnerable save at 4/5++ should be good (even with an increase in price - they should just be better than regular space marine).

Some great ideas here lads, I did expect the usual marine +1 wound and so (my own personal thoughts aside)

One more for Tyranids -

Either tyrant guard to 4W, or a 5+++ as they're truly AWFUL bodyguard units, they don't do anywhere near enough damage themselves compared to the other dedicated close combat units (and face it, the Tyranid codex has some GOLD STAR level melee punch) for a similar price.

And quick thought again on my beloved Daemons -

Bloodcrushers - Back to T5 please. I don't believe it would invalidate Plaguedrones as the level of support are different and the FLY keyword is a HUGE difference, plus all the shenanigans they can pull with Nurgle support.

(I also miss my old T4 bloodletters to be honest but I came to terms with that 2 editions ago.)

Guardsmen (all infantry units) get +1 wound to bring their durability in line with the fluff.

 Stormonu wrote:


Primaris/Marines can fit into any space marine transport; Primaris count as 2 models.

This, plus

Drop Pods can deep strike turn one. (Keep restriction on no more than 50% of force deep striking)

Land Raiders gain Ultramarine Chapter tactic, can retreat from combat and shoot at -1.

Rubric Marines / Scarab Occult Terminators :

All Is Dust now applies against all weapons, not just Damage 1. This effectively makes them 2+/4++.

Haruspex is one of the coolest nid models. I would for sure give it 3+ to hit in melee and a 5++ (Or -1 to be wounded, something to survive that walk)

Currently it only hits on a 4+, walks 7", and no invul for 170pts.

PS, forgot to say, it also only has 4 attacks... hitting on 4+... a melee specialist, with 4 attacks missing 1/2 the time.....

Macharius tank - Make it shoot 4d6. Baneblade shoots 3d6 from a single cannon, Macharius has 2 cannons. Vanquisher has Heavy 4.

Vanquisher Leman Russ - S9, 3D3 damage

Avenger Strike Fighter - Gattling canon is Heavy 12, not Heavy 7. Gattling on a Knight is also 12 and it's virtually the same weapon so, why there is a difference?

Veteran Guardsmen - Access to Doctrines like it had back in 6th. Carapace armor, Camo Cloaks and Demolitions

Plague Surgeon
+1 to rolls for disgustingly resilient instead of reroll ones.

A slight change for Warp Talons would be to just remove them from Codex so I'm not tempted to get them ever. GW is not really making an honest effort to make them playable, and with the track record of CA17 and CA18 I'm not gonna keep on expecting them to own up their promises of balance anymore.

Give all wraithlords/dreadnaughts etc the movement to allow them to actually get into combat.

I wish my chaos spawns can move 12", re roll their runand charge, ignore difficult terrain penalties, charge through cover like they did in 7th ed.

 Hawky wrote:
Macharius tank - Make it shoot 4d6. Baneblade shoots 3d6 from a single cannon, Macharius has 2 cannons.

It's a sad comment on its current state that the massive change of "double its firepower" is just maybe enough to make it semi-viable.

Terminators

I'd make them at least 2 wounds on each to give them that special "I can withstand a lot" status. Would mean anti-terminator weapons would be the only thing reliably killing them in one shot. Would also increase the reason to risk overheating on plasma just to kill one.

Space Marine Bikers

I'd make them 3 wound each. Makes them more resilient against high damage weapons.

Scatter Laser

Give the Scatter Laser a reroll on 1s just so it is a bit differentiated from Shuriken Cannons.

Wraithknights

I'd make them have a default Invuln Save against shooting like the Imperial Knights. The Shield in return would give invuln saves in both shooting and melee.

Incubi/Howling Banshees
Perhaps a reroll on wounds. At least reroll on wound rolls of 1. Give them that extra lethality they deserve.

Splinter Weaponry
Give them a -1 to AP on an unmodified 6. Splinter Weaponry is currently underwhelming.

Space Marine Armor in general
Give them an always save on an unmodified 6; a reverse of the always hit on 6 Orks get. It would differentiate Space Marines a bit more in regards to their armor being good and give them a slightly more heroic feel that they need. Would also hopefully make Scouts with their normal armor less attractive.

Bolters
Give them a -1, maybe -2, on an unmodified wound roll of 6.

Aeldari Blades
I'd just give them the same rule as Chainswords. Currently pointless to take Aeldari swords instead of Chainswords and the blister is limited in selection.

Reanimation_Protocol wrote:
Scarabs / Flayed Ones to TROOP slot

Sniper rifles to Always wound on 2+ vs non vehicles (keeping MW on 6+)

Tesla destructors to Damage 2

Monoliths to get the same guns as Destroyers = worth their points.

Canoptek Spyders to get double their wounds

_________

I'd start on space marines but I think forum posts have a character limit !!

I pretty much agree with this, except i'd give spiders some buff abilities, like improving RP rolls. And make spiders let units wiped out make a RP roll.


Also I'd make deathmark rifles have a special effect on psykers that any wounds caused by them. even if healed later or ignored by FNP, add 1 to all psychic tests thereafter.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Hawky wrote:
Macharius tank - Make it shoot 4d6. Baneblade shoots 3d6 from a single cannon, Macharius has 2 cannons.

It's a sad comment on its current state that the massive change of "double its firepower" is just maybe enough to make it semi-viable.

If the Heavy tank was Heavy 4D6 and D3 instead of 2D6 D6, I would be happy. Or it should cost about... 30-60 points less.
In case of Vanquisher, It would be Heavy 4 for AP shells and I think I would be comfortable with leaving 2D6 in case of HE shells. Or 4D6 1D. Otherwise again, 30-60 points down from it's cost.
Both Vulcan and Omega would deserve slightly lesser cost, about 20-40 points down, but I'd leave the weapon profiles as they are.

Necrons- General
- Make Void Scythes available to Command Barges and Overlords
- Remove every "either-or" option in characters (specifically, Crypteks with Cloaks and/or Chronometrons, Destroyer Lords with Phylacteries and/or Res Orbs)

Destroyer Lord
- United in Hatred; make it re-roll 1's in all phases, not just the shooting. Let it impact all friendly <Dynasty> infantry and beasts.

Scarabs
- Make them non-ObSec Troops
- A vehicle within 3" of a unit of Scarabs can heal an additional wound through Living Metal each turn. A unit of Scarabs can only heal one vehicle per turn this way
- Make them 15 ppm

Deathmarks
- Make the Synaptic Disintegrator inflict Mortal Wounds on a 4+ (6+ against vehicles). (I'm using Drukhari Scourges with Haywire as reference, but reversed)

Flayed Ones
- Make them Troops.

Triarch Stalker
- Give them <Dynasty>.

Triarch Praetorians
- Give them <Dynasty>.

Annihilation Barge
- Make Tesla Destructor AP-1

Ghost Ark
- Allow it to transport and heal Immortals as well
- Change Transport Capacity to 11 or 12

Tomb Spyders
- Make them Characters

Doomsday Ark
- Change the Doomsday Cannon to 2D3 shots (a very minor change; it doesn't impact potential maximum damage, but it shrinks the variance and makes the Ark just a little more reliable)

Tomb Sentinel
- Change the Exile Cannon to 2D3 shots (same reasoning as above)

Monolith
- Give it Quantum Shielding
- Remove Titanic

 Eldarsif wrote:
Terminators

I'd make them at least 2 wounds on each to give them that special "I can withstand a lot" status. Would mean anti-terminator weapons would be the only thing reliably killing them in one shot. Would also increase the reason to risk overheating on plasma just to kill one.

They are already 2 wounds each. Did you mean 3 wounds? If so, then I agree

Space Marine Bikers

I'd make them 3 wound each. Makes them more resilient against high damage weapons.

Bikes already get +1W and +1T over the rider, and in some cases +1Sv. I don't think giving them yet another bonus is needed. Bikes just need to be cheaper

Scatter Laser

Give the Scatter Laser a reroll on 1s just so it is a bit differentiated from Shuriken Cannons.

I like the idea of Scatter lasers getting some change over Shuricannons, but I'd lean more into the extra shots. Make Scatters Heavy 6, but only S5. Now they are good anti-infantry, while the Shuricannon remains a good all-round weapon

Wraithknights

I'd make them have a default Invuln Save against shooting like the Imperial Knights. The Shield in return would give invuln saves in both shooting and melee.

As I suggested above, I think WKs and WLs should have the option to take Spirit Stones. That wound give them some extra defense that fits more with their fluff and seems less "Imperials get X, so we should too"

Splinter WeaponrySplinter Weaponry is currently underwhelming.

Add a Farseer with Doom to your list. Then see if Splinter Weaponry is "underwhelming". I think many of your opponents will fervently disagree.

Space Marine Armor in general
Give them an always save on an unmodified 6; a reverse of the always hit on 6 Orks get. It would differentiate Space Marines a bit more in regards to their armor being good and give them a slightly more heroic feel that they need. Would also hopefully make Scouts with their normal armor less attractive.

So a 6++? Seem unnecessarily convoluted. Space Marines should just have 2W/2As in general at about 15ppm. And if a Space Marine is 2Ws, a Biker could then be 3Ws. Primaris would stay at 2Ws and get some other bonus, like T5 with Gravis armoured models having 3Ws.

Bolters
Give them a -1, maybe -2, on an unmodified wound roll of 6.

I support all Bolter weapons having some bonus on 6s to wound. it doesn't matter what, whether being AP-1 (or AP-2 for Heavy Bolters) or Damage 2, whatever. Explosive Rounds needs to be a rule for Bolters!

I also think that Heavy Bolters should be Rapid Fire 2, maybe even RF3. That would make them far more appealing and versatile for regular Marines.
I just don't get why the bigger version of a Bolt gun, a RF weapon, would not also be a RF gun

Necron Gauss Flayer & Blaster are both RF
Eldar Shuiken Catapults & Cannons are both Assault
DE Splinter Rifles and Cannons are both RF
Why does every Marine/human weapon that is bigger than a standard infantry sized gun HAVE to be a Heavy Weapon?

-

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
Kataphron Breachers.
basicly this ad mech troop selection did not transition to 8th all that well (when was the last time you saw them on the table??). it is ment to be elite troop infantry(minimum 3 models per unit) but it is far from it. it lacks survivability and anti horde weps.
ironicly, this unit is ment to be the guys who spearhead and moves in first, while the destroyers hang out in the back, yet the destoyers has all the anti horde weps..........

so, suggestion:
add 1 to the wounds making it W4. (not shure if changing from t5 to t6 would help their survivability..)
then give breacher 1 wep selections that destroyers has, the heavy grav-cannon while giving the destryers the torsion cannon from the breachers.

now atleast the breacher has the tools to be what it is ment to be.
as it is right now, i feel it is very usless in many ways. cant stay in the fight agasint all the plasma, and cant deal enugh dmg to horde as it only has heavy2 weps.
the grav-cannon would be the anti horde wep as it is a heavy5 wep.

idealy i feel that the breachers allso would have more use of the flamer then what the destryer has but that might make them too good, if they can use both a heavy5 and a flamer.


so, am i on the right path here?

I guess, but I'd suggest you take a look at Breachers post-CA with the new detachment from Vigilus. I've found them to be pretty darn effective in a max sized squad with the cheapest loadout.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Eh. I'd simply increase the cost of Tactical Marines back to 3E points, and bump Primaris accordingly. Problem solved! Everybody else automatically gets better!

Not everybody. GK can't use primaris stuff, and from what GW told they are going to get any primaris, and not even not soon, but just no won't get them.


I have been reading some old GK rules my dad gave me for christmas, and they had an interesting rule at some time. They were untargetable by shoting, unless the opponent rolled 3d6=the distance to GK unit. If they had something like that right now, they would be good too. GW could even replace it with a flat -2/-3 to being hit, above 12". Wouldn't even have to give extra rules or change point costs.

Karol wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Eh. I'd simply increase the cost of Tactical Marines back to 3E points, and bump Primaris accordingly. Problem solved! Everybody else automatically gets better!

Not everybody. GK can't use primaris stuff, and from what GW told they are going to get any primaris, and not even not soon, but just no won't get them.


I have been reading some old GK rules my dad gave me for christmas, and they had an interesting rule at some time. They were untargetable by shoting, unless the opponent rolled 3d6=the distance to GK unit. If they had something like that right now, they would be good too. GW could even replace it with a flat -2/-3 to being hit, above 12". Wouldn't even have to give extra rules or change point costs.

Man, Daemonhunters codex was golden age of grey knight power. We had grandmasters who could literally one shot anything with their force sword, even things normally immune to instant death. They were also strength 6, so they wounded MEQ units on a 2+. They were just fun.