Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

What do you think GW will do it with? Especially Infantry wise. Because as I look at the current range of ancient plastic cadians/even more ancient plastic catachans, with the awkward needing to swap out minis from sets to put in heavy weapon teams bought from another kit, and the total lack of options available to them (not just in the kit but rules wise too; Necromunda gangers have a wider range of weaponry) and the discontinued metals and so on, I just think the range is in a bit of a mess at the moment.

The vehicles/Scions are doing ok. And then you have plastic Ogryns of course. But the pyskers and ratlings are still metal/finecast, as are the regimental advisers. And in my opinion, the whole way that the range is presented is entirely out of date. Most kits today I think come with every option available don’t they? You don’t need to buy other kits to get unavailable parts for your units, just extra models.

And there’s a question of bases; if you could somehow cram a heavy weapon kit into a standard infantry set, you’d need to include the bigger base. However, what if the person doesn’t want to assemble them as a heavy weapon team? Will the set include spare bases for that?

There’s the question of regiments too; can gw continue to mantain multiple regiment kits? No other army is as varied in appearance as the IG, but can that justify making multiples of the same unit? It’s funny that in a way, we’ve never had more official easy to use IG customisation options available (skitarri, scions, ‘stealer cults, every Necromunda gang, AoS free peoples, the cadians and catachans etc.) but what will be the IG standard going forward? Personally I think it should be Necromunda regiments, as I said in another thread.

What are your thoughts on the matter?

I think they'll just be updated with kits in time as part of normal renewal but nothing exceptional. They'll just chug along.

They'll probably only stick to Cadian style as that's the standard guard. I think the "extra" guards will in future be done with upgrade kits and

I think it's good that they're making a lot of the parts interchangeable (guard, genestealer cults, mechanicum) and I hope this continues in future. This will mean that they will do less normal regiments models (vostroyan, mordian) as intended, but you'll have to kitbash and buy upgrades on top of the original. I do also believe they'll improve the sets to reflect more weapons options (eg: plasma in the 10 man guard box, sergeant weapons). OR again they'll just produce upgrade sprues for you to buy if you want the extras.

It's going to be about the money. It's more profitable for them to give a basic box and then you have to buy either mechanicum for the different heads, or buy upgrade boxes. Don't get me wrong.. there will still be plenty of spare parts in the box for a lot of the options, but they seem to be encouraging creating your own custom regiments with GW kitbashed stuff. That'll reduce the need for people to go buy Victorian Miniatures, Anvil Industry, Kromlech, Brother Vinni stuff etc etc.

If GW continues with its present course (and that’s always a big IF), we can expect them to consolidate their miniature lines - I think the top brass has recognized they’ve got too many SKU’s (or equivalent) and they need to do some consolidation and streamlining. We’ve seen that with the entire turnover of the AoS line, and if they’re smart they’re scrutinizing the 40K line as well.

Anything that is metal or finecast is in line on the chopping block or being remade in plastic. Personally, I don’t think GW is going to continue supporting two major IG lines (Catachan & Cadian in this case), and in the future may see the Catachan line quietly discontinued.

My *hope* is they will redesign the infantry figures for Cadians. A new “armor mark” so to speak. But with “human in futuristic/modern armor” not easily copyrighted, don’t expect GW to put a lot of effort into redesigning the line.

The IG range is constrained by the codex and fluff. Because there are so many regiments with completely different looks that cannot share a kit, they have to either manufacture several kits to produce each regiment or redesign the faction. If each regiment shared a common look, like marines, then it comes down to paint scheme to determine what your regiment is. I am really not sure what they can do besides my two suggestions or staying their course by keeping the old kits. I for one play Catachans and like a Catachan I'll fight like hell against getting "squatted" in favor of an overall redesign.

 Brotherjanus wrote:
The IG range is constrained by the codex and fluff.

GW is models first, rules second, fluff last. That's how the company operates- sculptors create kits, then the rules team makes rules to fit the kits, and then the writers integrate it into the background.

So I don't think the IG range is constrained by codex or fluff, because that's just not how GW works. They very well might throw out the Catachan and Cadian ranges entirely and introduce a new regiment, and then either fluff it as a new central regiment (maybe keeping Cadians around for a while but slowly fading out) or say that Guilliman's overseeing a total refit and standardization of the Guard or something.

The point being, I wouldn't try to extrapolate anything from the codex or fluff regarding where the line is going.

Good replies, thanks guys.

If I put my sensible hat on, I can see them quietly discontinuing the catachans in plastic (though I hope they won't), and releasing an all new line of Cadians. They are the poster boys of the guard, and the most generic, so it makes sense to stick with them. I would hope though that these new Cadians/Generic IG are now in scale and fully compatible with all the other human plastics (a given I'm sure), but that they're also subtly tweaked to be just a little bit more 'gothic', just a little bit more Imperium Of Man. Though that's not likely.

The Command Squad set is absolutely fine as is. I assume that it's compatible with the other human plastics? The 'stealers, scions etc? If it is, then keep it.

What would be needed is a new basic infantry box, one with the option of both lasguns and shotguns, and every special weapon and sergeant option (plus a vox caster). Heavy weapon teams might be difficult though...that's the crunch for me.

A new heavy weapon team kit would be nice too. Maybe with some new options, if that's possible. I've always felt that they could have plasma cannons for example. But if I'm honest, I would take the opportunity to rethink IG heavy weapons. Bring in mobile weapon platforms. I think the rapier is particularly cool for example.

Also, about the other IG regiments...shouldn't this be the sort of thing Forge World handles? Plastic Cadians via GW for the mainstream, resin other regiments via FW for the collecters/painters etc?

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Also, about the other IG regiments...shouldn't this be the sort of thing Forge World handles? Plastic Cadians via GW for the mainstream, resin other regiments via FW for the collecters/painters etc?

Forge World seems to be getting out of IG regiments entirely. Elysians are gone, Renegades are gone, and even the Death Korps have big gaps in their line. GW's plastics are getting to the point where they rival FW's old sculpts in quality, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if Death Korps are retired in the next couple of years and we never see another FW Guard regiment again.

catbarf wrote:

 Brotherjanus wrote:
The IG range is constrained by the codex and fluff.

GW is models first, rules second, fluff last. That's how the company operates- sculptors create kits, then the rules team makes rules to fit the kits, and then the writers integrate it into the background.

So I don't think the IG range is constrained by codex or fluff, because that's just not how GW works. They very well might throw out the Catachan and Cadian ranges entirely and introduce a new regiment, and then either fluff it as a new central regiment (maybe keeping Cadians around for a while but slowly fading out) or say that Guilliman's overseeing a total refit and standardization of the Guard or something.

The point being, I wouldn't try to extrapolate anything from the codex or fluff regarding where the line is going.[/quote




Did you read beyond my first sentence?

Some of my favourite kits GW have done are the Night Lords and Iron Warriors upgrade kits. Small releases, but they give a bit of character to any power armour unit for little effort. Stick a NL head on the rhino combi bolter gunner and suddenly even without painting it's a NL rhino. I'd love to see the same for IG.Tallarn heads and maybe torsos that fit onto Cadian minis, for example

I suppose third party bits makers already do that though

I've always felt GW should have done more with Guard.

I feel GW should have made a guard force that is always there, and then also offered for a set amount of time a special regiment. Like for the next year you can get Emperors Guard, a small range of 1905 Japanese army theme, Just of normal troops, heavy and special weapons, and a couple command figs, but they will be gone on Jan1 2020 so buy now.

And on Jan 2, introduce the Vigilance Brigantines, Just a squad and heavy and special weapons and a command figures, modeled off 1700 Caribbean Pirates as a theme, buy now, as they are gone Jan 1 2021.

Or during all that time, buy just the normal Cadian look forces, always on sale at your normal GW store.

Cadians and Catachans phased out, replaced by a complete range of plastic DKoK, with no further FW involvement?

A standardized kit is a redesign of the faction. That is really the only way to get rid of the second party model makers that supply models for regiments GW doesn't support but are in the codex. That is what I meant by the range being constrained by the fluff and codex. If they want to only produce Cadian troops then Cadian troops are all there is galaxy wide.

 Brotherjanus wrote:
Did you read beyond my first sentence?

Yes, did I misunderstand something? My point was that it likely will be neither making several kits nor a total redesign of the faction. They'll just make a new set of kits functionally equivalent to the current ones, the rules writers will have no changes needed, and then it's up to the fluff writers to retrofit the new uniforms with the fluff. That fluff might be that now Guard all share a common uniform (which is kind of the direction they've been going with the Cadians), but it equally could just be a new Guard regiment (say, Necromunda) and the old ones will be quietly retired after a few years like they've already done to Steel Legion/Valhallans/Vostroyans/Tallarn/Mordians/Praetorians despite those all still existing in the lore.

I could very well see them releasing a new regiment, keeping the Cadians and Catachans around for a while but slowly retiring them, and occasionally doing limited runs of the old pewter models.

catbarf wrote:
Forge World seems to be getting out of IG regiments entirely. Elysians are gone, Renegades are gone, and even the Death Korps have big gaps in their line. GW's plastics are getting to the point where they rival FW's old sculpts in quality, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if Death Korps are retired in the next couple of years and we never see another FW Guard regiment again.

That would be a terrible shame imo. Especially because this would be exactly the kind of thing they should be doing. I would rather FW devotes it's time and energy towards making alternative versions of models that can't be supported main stream.

 Snake Tortoise wrote:
Some of my favourite kits GW have done are the Night Lords and Iron Warriors upgrade kits. Small releases, but they give a bit of character to any power armour unit for little effort. Stick a NL head on the rhino combi bolter gunner and suddenly even without painting it's a NL rhino. I'd love to see the same for IG.Tallarn heads and maybe torsos that fit onto Cadian minis, for example

I suppose third party bits makers already do that though

Ah now this is a good idea! It could totally work; literally the only things you need to turn Cadians into Tallarns are the heads, curved swords and daggers and maybe a cape. Could easily be done; ten tallarn heads, a curved power sword arm, Tallarn looking accessories, and a combined cape/torso that could be great for an Officer.

If they did that, and kept the catachans, GW would be producing minis for 3 out of the 7 regiments (plus the Militarum Tempestus). 4 out of 8...not bad at all! And I've had a change of heart with regards to catachans...they need to stay. 3 of the IG's named characters are catachans. There's the command squad that still holds up well, and the catachan heads on all the vehicles. Other factions have more unit types than the IG (marines have Primaris Intercessors, Interceptors, Hellblasters, Rievers, Aggressors plus all the old type marines). We have a few unit types with multiple uniforms. From a supply point of view, both work out the same imo.

A Cadian infantry kit, Cadian command kit, Catachan infantry kit, Catachan command kit, possibly a shared heavy weapon kit but probably two separate ones...5-6 sets...that's manageable right? With a Tallarn upgrade sprue for the Cadian sets, with a plastic pysker and ratling kit and plastic characters...yeah, this is totally doable.

What they'll do is increase the size of them to be bigger than the Necromunda models so then they've got another excuse to increase the size of "too small" Marines.

 Brotherjanus wrote:
A standardized kit is a redesign of the faction. That is really the only way to get rid of the second party model makers that supply models for regiments GW doesn't support but are in the codex.

Well, since anyone can make a human infantryman wielding a sci-fi gun in the correct scale, I doubt any non-GW suppliers of alt guard figures will be concerned if GW suddenly had only 1 look for the range. Or if they suddenly changed all the fluff & rules so as to eliminate any difference between fielding a Cadian vs a Tallarn vs a Vostroyan, etc.
Afterall, beyond maybe your local shop/club lv events, your not seeing armies of Kromlech figs in your tourneys are you? And yet their selling figs to someone....

I agree that the line is a bit of a mess, but I don't see anything happening with them for years to come. The molds are bought a paid for and the sets still sell. The profit margins on them are massive and as others have said, normal humans are not easy to copyright.

 Brotherjanus wrote:

catbarf wrote:

 Brotherjanus wrote:
The IG range is constrained by the codex and fluff.

GW is models first, rules second, fluff last. That's how the company operates- sculptors create kits, then the rules team makes rules to fit the kits, and then the writers integrate it into the background.

So I don't think the IG range is constrained by codex or fluff, because that's just not how GW works. They very well might throw out the Catachan and Cadian ranges entirely and introduce a new regiment, and then either fluff it as a new central regiment (maybe keeping Cadians around for a while but slowly fading out) or say that Guilliman's overseeing a total refit and standardization of the Guard or something.

The point being, I wouldn't try to extrapolate anything from the codex or fluff regarding where the line is going.

Did you read beyond my first sentence?

Besides which I don't think his statement is true. Any recent interviews with games designers I've heard or read have them stating that they work incredibly closely with the background writer and that if anything it is about making the rules fit the fluff for the unit rather than the other way around.

I don't think IG infantry sells well enough that they're going to update or bring back any of the other factions other than as one-offs as recently. If you want themed guard, use the custom regiment builder. They have enough to cover the original factions and to create more if you wish.

http://anvilindustry.co.uk/regiments-custom-infantry-squad

It's what I plan to do once I have 4 Squads of Cadians to take to GW stores. Then I can play anywhere without harassment while building my custom themed forces on the side.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
What do you think GW will do it with?

What are your thoughts on the matter?

I don't really care, because it doesn't really matter. I own something like 150 metal IG minis, of which the bulk are Tallarn. I won't need to buy a single IG model for as long as I live.

That said, it would be nice if they provided Valhallans or some other greatcoat force in plastic. Regardless, it's not like IG will ever go away.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
If they did that, and kept the catachans, GW would be producing minis for 3 out of the 7 regiments (plus the Militarum Tempestus). 4 out of 8...not bad at all!

Ignoring the Necromunda Gangers, there quite a few more are more than 7 Imperial Guard Regiments that GW has produced and sold as such:
* Armageddon Steel Legion
* Attillan Rough Riders
* Cadian
* Catachan Jungle Fighters
* Elysian Drop Troops (FW)
* Krieg Death Corps (FW)
* Mordian
* Praetorian
* Tallarn Desert Raiders
* Tanith First and Only
* Valhallan
* Vostoyan

Plus the Dirty Dozen.

Plus Stormtroopers and Kasrkin.

Plus the generics from Rogue Trader.


I suspect that I may have missed a few, but it's clearly more than 7 Regiments.

Dai wrote:

 Brotherjanus wrote:

catbarf wrote:

 Brotherjanus wrote:
The IG range is constrained by the codex and fluff.

GW is models first, rules second, fluff last. That's how the company operates- sculptors create kits, then the rules team makes rules to fit the kits, and then the writers integrate it into the background.

So I don't think the IG range is constrained by codex or fluff, because that's just not how GW works. They very well might throw out the Catachan and Cadian ranges entirely and introduce a new regiment, and then either fluff it as a new central regiment (maybe keeping Cadians around for a while but slowly fading out) or say that Guilliman's overseeing a total refit and standardization of the Guard or something.

The point being, I wouldn't try to extrapolate anything from the codex or fluff regarding where the line is going.

Did you read beyond my first sentence?

Besides which I don't think his statement is true. Any recent interviews with games designers I've heard or read have them stating that they work incredibly closely with the background writer and that if anything it is about making the rules fit the fluff for the unit rather than the other way around.

yeah, I was going to say this. At the very least the fluff precedes the rules.

@ JohnHwangDD

I know there are more than 7 regiments. There’s technically 100s of regiments if you go by the fluff. When I say 7 regiments, I mean the 7 regiments that have rules in the IG codex. The Cadians, Catachans, Tallarns, Valhallans, Mordians, Vostroyians and Armageddon rules. Plus the Militarum Tempestus. I don’t count the Elysians or the Death Korps because FW handle those.

In talking about the miniature range and its future, I'm not buying it, I think it more reasonable to talk about the stuff GW has actually sold, which *does* include FW.

Also, my Imperial Guard Codex describes all 11 Regiments that GW supported at the time of publication (aside from the Praetorians and Tanith).

If we dial back the clock, we go to the 3E or 4E Codex, which had DIY Regiment rules, which creates huge numbers of possible combinations, and illustrated an even greater number of Regiments.

Not that it matters, considering that GW pulled the Vostroyans out of their ass with zero precedent, just as they did with the Tanith and Krieg and Elysian

Going on a limb I would say plastic DKoK at some point. GW binned the R&H line and then brought out plastics in BSF. Not a fully fledged R&H line but they seem prepared to do it.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
In talking about the miniature range and its future, I'm not buying it, I think it more reasonable to talk about the stuff GW has actually sold, which *does* include FW.

Also, my Imperial Guard Codex describes all 11 Regiments that GW supported at the time of publication (aside from the Praetorians and Tanith).

If we dial back the clock, we go to the 3E or 4E Codex, which had DIY Regiment rules, which creates huge numbers of possible combinations, and illustrated an even greater number of Regiments.

Not that it matters, considering that GW pulled the Vostroyans out of their ass with zero precedent, just as they did with the Tanith and Krieg and Elysian

And the Catachans, Mordians, Tallarns, Valhallans, Attilans and Praetorians, for that matter.


Praetorians and Mordians can be made from the existing plastic Cadians with a head swap and appropriate paintjob - easily included on a hypothetical new plastic range. The others are a little trickier, but any regiment can be explained away with a paint scheme and saying they were re-equipped at some point with standard equipment. I could see an upgrade kit for Catacahans - bare torsos, arms and heads.

If I were to be cynical I could imagine one scenario. This is in no way something that will happen, but I find it interesting to ponder as a "what if".

GW semi-retire the Cadian line as they feel they've already extracted maximum profit from it. They instead release something like Steel Legion(or whatever) to give us a newer(and updated) line to collect.
Now they take Cadians, update them, and make the updated models Renegade Guard only. This means that existing IG players could play Renegade Guard, but would still feel obliged to buy the new kits for the updated look, new weapon/chaosification.

Again, just imagining a scenario.

Problem I see not only for IG but other armies is GW really doesn't like updating existing units. They appear to like dropping brand new units whenever possible, I'd assume because a model no one has will sell better than an update to something old players already own. Updates they do make like ogryn or the Hydra need to have a variant nobody owns to encourage sales. So how do you do that with guardsmen? All you can really do is conscripts, line infantry, vets, and command staff. It's not like you can really make an infantry squad and then a breacher squad option in the same kit.

So odds are our next release will continue the trend of being elite units getting updates with a new kit one asked for and GW milking the old squad box as long as possible.

It's hardly just a guard problem either. Ork players wanted tankbustas, deff koptas, and kommandos, instead they got 5 different types of buggies. They really only needed one, the updates to existing units would have been well received and we're far more needed. But that wouldn't sell as well so they got new buggies instead. I don't know eldar super well but I know they have a ton of models like rangers still stuck with dated metals and yet their newest release was a stupid super heavy, etc. Etc.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
In talking about the miniature range and its future, I'm not buying it, I think it more reasonable to talk about the stuff GW has actually sold, which *does* include FW.

Also, my Imperial Guard Codex describes all 11 Regiments that GW supported at the time of publication (aside from the Praetorians and Tanith).

If we dial back the clock, we go to the 3E or 4E Codex, which had DIY Regiment rules, which creates huge numbers of possible combinations, and illustrated an even greater number of Regiments.

Not that it matters, considering that GW pulled the Vostroyans out of their ass with zero precedent, just as they did with the Tanith and Krieg and Elysian

And the Catachans, Mordians, Tallarns, Valhallans, Attilans and Praetorians, for that matter.

Sure, GW does that, but it was totally unnecessary. It didn't create a whole new Codex army to play.

I think it is likely they will have Robute Gulliman reform the Astra Militarum back into the Imperial Army and enforce uniformity across the Imperium.

AKA: brand spanking new trademarkable Imperial Army

 purplkrush wrote:
I don't think IG infantry sells well enough that they're going to update or bring back any of the other factions other than as one-offs as recently. If you want themed guard, use the custom regiment builder. They have enough to cover the original factions and to create more if you wish.

http://anvilindustry.co.uk/regiments-custom-infantry-squad

It's what I plan to do once I have 4 Squads of Cadians to take to GW stores. Then I can play anywhere without harassment while building my custom themed forces on the side.

I think the Anvil method would be a very smart and very lucrative venture for GW. Maybe make 2-3 torso types, arms, and a large variety of heads available as upgrade sprues would be like printing gold. Several can even share. Vostroyan would double as Imperial Knight house guard with a head swap. Mordian/Praetorian. Tallarn/Steel Legion/DKoK (really its all greatcloacks + headswap for the most part). Catachan/Savage World/Headtakers. This would also be a great opportunity for them to expand the line and bring in new games with female guardsman (gasp!) I know if they ever did that I'd buy them in droves. Until then I'll keep paying the exorbitant shipping rates from Victoria Minis.

Also if you havent tried them yet the Anvil stuff is reasonably priced and top notch quality minis that fit extremely well, plus they have some really nice arm and leg poses. They make some killer Valhallan upgrades! Just no lady guard...