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Now that is better. I wish DW could take Bolter/Shield.

 Eldarain wrote:
Now that is better. I wish DW could take Bolter/Shield.

Do they really need to? It seems minor of an issue when you really only need 1-2 anyway.

Have had good experience with TH/SS+2xLC BA assault termie squads. Usually one or two TH/SS and the rest LCs.

 Eldarain wrote:
Now that is better. I wish DW could take Bolter/Shield.

I think I should trademark the 5x SB/SS 135 point Wolf Guard Termi squad as "SBSS Ragnar bomb™" before everyone on dakka notices and a new glorious meta unit is created . Complete GLOBAL SATURATION on the international tournament circuits was never so close for me!

But seriously, can't wait to try the unit and variations out, will be fun to push guard blobs around when they need to FRFSRF with only two flashlight shots per model because my cheap Termis are sitting almost 24 inches away from whem while still shooting with glorious 4 rounds per model efficiency .
The mere thought of Terminators of all units trading equally or better with infantry squads under any circumstance is hilarious.

 Eldarain wrote:
Now that is better. I wish DW could take Bolter/Shield.

I mean 31 points for a Termi with special issue ammo is still nice and while you can't take many in veteran squads they are troop choices and get cheaper SIA boltgun + storm shield dudes for tanking those plasma shots (while you can still use the Termis to tank small arms unless you are unlucky and have to allocate a high AP round to one with only one wound left), so I wouldn't really worry much. Space Wolves need every advantage and good unit they can get.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Now that is better. I wish DW could take Bolter/Shield.

Do they really need to? It seems minor of an issue when you really only need 1-2 anyway.

As a full Terminator Squad I think so. I just want them dropping in somewhere pouring SIA ammo into things.
It would be the cheapest way to run them and make them way more annoying to remove. Save 10 points per 5 and gain a unit wide 3++ sounds good to me.

 Eldarain wrote:
Now that is better. I wish DW could take Bolter/Shield.

They can. They just get a vet to carry the shield for them

Seriously, DW termis embedded in vet squads are probably the best termis in the game right now.

 grouchoben wrote:


Seriously, DW termis embedded in vet squads are probably the best termis in the game right now.

Unfortunately, they're not technically Terminators as the Veteran datasheet doesnt have, nor does it gain, the TERMINATOR keyword. They only double tap at long range if they dont move.

Sterling191 wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:


Seriously, DW termis embedded in vet squads are probably the best termis in the game right now.

Unfortunately, they're not technically Terminators as the Veteran datasheet doesnt have, nor does it gain, the TERMINATOR keyword. They only double tap at long range if they dont move.

The terminators in the elite slot do have that keyword. Just not the vets.

 labmouse42 wrote:
The terminators in the elite slot do have that keyword. Just not the vets.

That's...what I said? DW Terminators and Vet Squads are two distinct units and should be discussed as such. I was responding to an assertion regarding the latter, not the former.

Sterling191 wrote:
That's...what I said?

Whoa Nelly. That comment was not an attack. Just adding to the conversation.

I really don't get why so many people on dakka seem to attack others over rules.
If it seems like I missed part of the conversation it's because I block people who use ad hominem as part of their discussion and likely did not see part of the conversation.

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:


Sadly the new rules doesn't really make the the one Terminator unit which needs to actually be viable the most actually viable: Grey Knights Terminators. At 41 points they are just hideously overpriced and massively underpowered when compared to even regular Custodian Guards (which are only 14 points more pricy per model). If they were 32-34 points they'd be decent.As is you are still way better off taking Strike Squads instead, even if they are also overpriced and very mediocre for what you pay for them.

That's not the whole picture for Grey Knights terminators:
- They are Troops choices and therefore Obsec so they are in the same slot as Custodes and Deathwatch.
- They can cast Smite, or Hammerhand or Vortex of Doom (all are extremely useful, but Hammerhand is ace against Knights/vehicles)
- They can deny a psychic power and get +1 to do so
- They will benefit from the new bolter rules whereas Custodians will not.
- With the new bolter rules, and 2cp for Psybolt ammunition, a 10 man squad can throw 40 Str5 AP-1 shots at 24".
- They can easily be babysat with an Ancient to give them LD9, +1 attack and casting Sanctuary giving them +1 to their invulnerable save for a 2+,4++.

Lmao. The best Terminator is the one gathering dust on your shelf sadly.

 D6Damager wrote:

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:


Sadly the new rules doesn't really make the the one Terminator unit which needs to actually be viable the most actually viable: Grey Knights Terminators. At 41 points they are just hideously overpriced and massively underpowered when compared to even regular Custodian Guards (which are only 14 points more pricy per model). If they were 32-34 points they'd be decent.As is you are still way better off taking Strike Squads instead, even if they are also overpriced and very mediocre for what you pay for them.

That's not the whole picture for Grey Knights terminators:
- They are Troops choices and therefore Obsec so they are in the same slot as Custodes and Deathwatch.
- They can cast Smite, or Hammerhand or Vortex of Doom (all are extremely useful, but Hammerhand is ace against Knights/vehicles)
- They can deny a psychic power and get +1 to do so
- They will benefit from the new bolter rules whereas Custodians will not.
- With the new bolter rules, and 2cp for Psybolt ammunition, a 10 man squad can throw 40 Str5 AP-1 shots at 24".
- They can easily be babysat with an Ancient to give them LD9, +1 attack and casting Sanctuary giving them +1 to their invulnerable save for a 2+,4++.

No, it really IS the whole picture for GK Terminators.
1. Objective Secured is a non-rule for expensive models of low count.
2. They cast Baby Smite, NOT Smite, and you're better off casting Hammerhand on a squad pulling off more attacks for the price. Also LOL at the notion most units could cast Vortex successfully.
3. Okay sure, denying is nice.
4. Custodes don't need to benefit from the Beta Bolter rules. Major difference. Plus if they want crowd control, Hurricane Bolters on the bikes and Sags with their Heavy Bolters can handle the job fine.
5. Saying they can benefit from the Ancient is the same argument that regular Vanilla Marines can benefit from that or Roboute.

GK Terminators are just BAD. Please don't defend them.


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 iGuy91 wrote:
Lmao. The best Terminator is the one gathering dust on your shelf sadly.

Eh I think we can make an argument for Space Wolves and Deathwatch. Chaos Terminator variants are only meh.