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I like this Canoness OK - so long as there are a few more Cannoness(es?) released as well. She seems like a good overall General - but we need a few more "get stuck in with the girls" options too IMO.
The hate for the plasma is the sisters have the holy trinity as their thing and the handful of plasma weaponry is an abberation.
It's the principal of the matter and arguments of them being there and being modelled are irrelevant in the face of such principals. To support plasma is tantamount to heresy.
schoon wrote: Loving the character they put into the face. Really gives an impression of age.
Thumbs up for that.
Yarp.
It's also something we don't often see in 40k. Most don't really live to a ripe old age, and those that do are Marines, who are seemingly functionally immortal, thus not prone to ageing.
I like that touch, as it suggests SoB are pretty badass survivors in a galaxy of horror (power armour of course helps!)
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Giantwalkingchair wrote: The hate for the plasma is the sisters have the holy trinity as their thing and the handful of plasma weaponry is an abberation.
It's the principal of the matter and arguments of them being there and being modelled are irrelevant in the face of such principals. To support plasma is tantamount to heresy.
You're right.
But so many of the Sister's traditions are centered around GW not wanting to make new models and the writers making excuses for this. I feel like its time to leave at least some of that behind so the Sisters range can grow and evolve.
ecurtz wrote: I think part of the problem is she's in a very static pose and yet the censers and reliquary are ignoring gravity. (Robes too, but that's much less of a visual issue for me.)
It looks tome like her robes and accessories are swaying in the wind. I don't see a problem.
H.B.M.C. wrote: "A Canoness is armed with a Plasma Pistol, Master-Crafted Power Sword, Staff of the Ecclesiarchy, Frag and Krak Grenades... and nothing else... ever... because that's all our mono-pose miniature has. Suck it."
Not true. We'll likely have 4-5 alternate HQ or Elite character types to choose from.
Frankly though, I just don't care about the lack of weapon choices based on models. The units get whittled down to the most efficient by the tournament crowd and that funnels down to casuals as the "you'd be stupid to take anything but this" default choice.
So why bother with options, when everyone will only take 1 choice per unit anyway. That's a cynical take, but that's what net lists have done to the game.
Not everybody follows mindlessly along with netlisting, so why should all our options be taken away because some people aren't capable of independent thought?
Giantwalkingchair wrote: The hate for the plasma is the sisters have the holy trinity as their thing and the handful of plasma weaponry is an abberation.
It's the principal of the matter and arguments of them being there and being modelled are irrelevant in the face of such principals. To support plasma is tantamount to heresy.
You're right.
But so many of the Sister's traditions are centered around GW not wanting to make new models and the writers making excuses for this. I feel like its time to leave at least some of that behind so the Sisters range can grow and evolve.
Does the origin really matter? It's a cool bit of background, just like all the other cool bits of background that made the setting seem different and interesting that were originally based in some business or manufacturing limitation of Ye Olden 90's. Abandoning the STC narrative to give every Imperial faction its own Specialsnowflakius Pattern vehicles hasn't been an improvement IMO, the result is stuff like the terribad DA landspeeders and the ludicrous hovercraft-thing for Skitarii. Functionally retconning away the idea that only the Imperial Navy operates proper in-atmosphere combat aircraft allowed them to add loads of(often derpy as feth lookin') flyers to the Marines, and of course once they had that option for the flagship faction everybody else "had" to get them as well. For my money, that also wasn't an improvement to the game.
Factions are defined as much by their limits as their strengths, and the more they "grow and evolve", the more homogeneous and uninteresting they become.
I have no doubt all the "we want random new stuffz" people will get exactly what they want eventually, and that Sisters ten years from now will look very little like the Sisters that made me fall in love with the faction back when they first launched, but can you not wait until their first actual plastic release is out of the way before clamouring for changes? It'd be nice to have access to a complete "proper" Sisters army in plastic before GW start to "improve" them.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
I wouldn’t be opposed to gravguns being an option for them. Just because they look rad. But we’ve seen the weapons now and probably aren’t getting those.
Meh. My favorite Sister Superior has a plasma pistol and a chainsword. She doesn't even know how to spell trinity. Plasma is still good for burning heretics, so I don't mind if it occasionally pops up on the new models.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
H.B.M.C. wrote: I think the elderly head nun is a breath of fresh air. It certainly wasn't what I was expecting, and that's a good thing IMO.
This.
Also I’m really liking the amount, of stuff on her, she looks beautifully 40k and over the top. I didn’t like the Sisters Repentia, but I’m loving this Canoness. My only problem is similar to what’s mentioned above, where she has too many things and not enough hands or holsters.
To be fair, with maglocking weapons everything's a holster.
I don't mind that she can get a plasma pistol (in Requiem Infernal there are dialogus sisters using plasma weapons, but maybe that doesn't count because it's black library ), but it would really bother me if there are not other option in the kit and every canoness now must have a plasma pisto, power sword, fancy rod and a bionic leg.
I like the face (but I hope there's also a cool helmet option).
I really hope we get an option to canonnesses in personal Immolators. I've wanted a command immolator since I read Fire And Faith (the main character of which uses a plasma pistol incidentally).
aged face is cool, but seriously, last model i was complaining about how it didn't fit what i knew about the model types lore and wasn't showing off what i feel was it's religious nature enough for my taste. now im sitting here wondering why suddenly it feels we called an armored ministorum priest instead of someone fully suited to be at the head in the battlefield. a rod of office, the giant collar (how much crap would i have to pay for and then fix/not use at this rate!), or the ridiculous..swaying things. id think they'd look better on the back on the model, perhaps, but it would kind of get in the way or shot off considering the two giant one handers.
There enough bugging me ill overlook the plasma pistol seemingly default sidearm, how did someone tell me this before? "you have to expect it wouldn't be what you hoped and they'd change stuff", right? I have much more annoyances than it anyway.
Over under on a Jump pack Cannoness like I was hoping is also feeling slimmer. yey.
They're censers. They're used in religious ceremonies to burn scented incense and they are entirely appropriate for a Sororitas HQ to have, though I agree the way they've been used on this model is dumb.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/06 11:00:47
H.B.M.C. wrote: "A Canoness is armed with a Plasma Pistol, Master-Crafted Power Sword, Staff of the Ecclesiarchy, Frag and Krak Grenades... and nothing else... ever... because that's all our mono-pose miniature has. Suck it."
Not true. We'll likely have 4-5 alternate HQ or Elite character types to choose from.
Frankly though, I just don't care about the lack of weapon choices based on models. The units get whittled down to the most efficient by the tournament crowd and that funnels down to casuals as the "you'd be stupid to take anything but this" default choice.
So why bother with options, when everyone will only take 1 choice per unit anyway. That's a cynical take, but that's what net lists have done to the game.
Not everybody follows mindlessly along with netlisting, so why should all our options be taken away because some people aren't capable of independent thought?
Giantwalkingchair wrote: The hate for the plasma is the sisters have the holy trinity as their thing and the handful of plasma weaponry is an abberation.
It's the principal of the matter and arguments of them being there and being modelled are irrelevant in the face of such principals. To support plasma is tantamount to heresy.
You're right.
But so many of the Sister's traditions are centered around GW not wanting to make new models and the writers making excuses for this. I feel like its time to leave at least some of that behind so the Sisters range can grow and evolve.
Does the origin really matter? It's a cool bit of background, just like all the other cool bits of background that made the setting seem different and interesting that were originally based in some business or manufacturing limitation of Ye Olden 90's. Abandoning the STC narrative to give every Imperial faction its own Specialsnowflakius Pattern vehicles hasn't been an improvement IMO, the result is stuff like the terribad DA landspeeders and the ludicrous hovercraft-thing for Skitarii. Functionally retconning away the idea that only the Imperial Navy operates proper in-atmosphere combat aircraft allowed them to add loads of(often derpy as feth lookin') flyers to the Marines, and of course once they had that option for the flagship faction everybody else "had" to get them as well. For my money, that also wasn't an improvement to the game.
Factions are defined as much by their limits as their strengths, and the more they "grow and evolve", the more homogeneous and uninteresting they become.
I have no doubt all the "we want random new stuffz" people will get exactly what they want eventually, and that Sisters ten years from now will look very little like the Sisters that made me fall in love with the faction back when they first launched, but can you not wait until their first actual plastic release is out of the way before clamouring for changes? It'd be nice to have access to a complete "proper" Sisters army in plastic before GW start to "improve" them.
yes because ONLY the imperial Navy had fliers and until the stormraven came along space marines never used fliers.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Shaping up to be a coherent, well-designed range that’s respectful of the old models whilst updating and expanding.
Stormonu wrote: For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
.... excuse me while i go hit myself for forgetting what they were, because the name should have been on my mind. maybe the model itself threw me off. im use to seeing them in hand or mounted on something sturdy, not dangling off of someones garb in the middle of battle like tassels or something.
you know, that makes me wish the collar thing was more like the old Cannoness arrangement even more.
H.B.M.C. wrote: "A Canoness is armed with a Plasma Pistol, Master-Crafted Power Sword, Staff of the Ecclesiarchy, Frag and Krak Grenades... and nothing else... ever... because that's all our mono-pose miniature has. Suck it."
Not true. We'll likely have 4-5 alternate HQ or Elite character types to choose from.
Frankly though, I just don't care about the lack of weapon choices based on models. The units get whittled down to the most efficient by the tournament crowd and that funnels down to casuals as the "you'd be stupid to take anything but this" default choice.
So why bother with options, when everyone will only take 1 choice per unit anyway. That's a cynical take, but that's what net lists have done to the game.
Not everybody follows mindlessly along with netlisting, so why should all our options be taken away because some people aren't capable of independent thought?
Giantwalkingchair wrote: The hate for the plasma is the sisters have the holy trinity as their thing and the handful of plasma weaponry is an abberation.
It's the principal of the matter and arguments of them being there and being modelled are irrelevant in the face of such principals. To support plasma is tantamount to heresy.
You're right.
But so many of the Sister's traditions are centered around GW not wanting to make new models and the writers making excuses for this. I feel like its time to leave at least some of that behind so the Sisters range can grow and evolve.
Does the origin really matter? It's a cool bit of background, just like all the other cool bits of background that made the setting seem different and interesting that were originally based in some business or manufacturing limitation of Ye Olden 90's. Abandoning the STC narrative to give every Imperial faction its own Specialsnowflakius Pattern vehicles hasn't been an improvement IMO, the result is stuff like the terribad DA landspeeders and the ludicrous hovercraft-thing for Skitarii. Functionally retconning away the idea that only the Imperial Navy operates proper in-atmosphere combat aircraft allowed them to add loads of(often derpy as feth lookin') flyers to the Marines, and of course once they had that option for the flagship faction everybody else "had" to get them as well. For my money, that also wasn't an improvement to the game.
Factions are defined as much by their limits as their strengths, and the more they "grow and evolve", the more homogeneous and uninteresting they become.
I have no doubt all the "we want random new stuffz" people will get exactly what they want eventually, and that Sisters ten years from now will look very little like the Sisters that made me fall in love with the faction back when they first launched, but can you not wait until their first actual plastic release is out of the way before clamouring for changes? It'd be nice to have access to a complete "proper" Sisters army in plastic before GW start to "improve" them.
yes because ONLY the imperial Navy had fliers and until the stormraven came along space marines never used fliers.
Spoiler:
That's a very literal response when you consider that the point is that once upon a time Marines were pretty much exclusively shock troops meant to perform surgical strikes, which considering they were allowed to act independently, went hand in hand with the ability to insert and extract troops. That's your Thunderhawk. Whereas at some point GW somehow figured that they should be able to conduct any military operation successfully, on land and in the air, which for the latter meant getting a functional air force that far exceeded their transportation needs. All around a ludicrous idea considering Marine forces are ridiculously tiny, but GW went there,
That's hardly invalid criticism, no matter how you frame it.
Sisters run the risk of getting the same treatment. The armies of the Imperium were specifically split up to prevent another Horus Heresy and are supposed to be dependent on interdisciplinary coordination. They already got a Forgeworld flyer and, if I remember the remarks about novels correctly, have their own battleships in Black Library novels.
Yodhrin's got a point. In their obsession to give every Imperial army is own visual identity and the ability to play the same game as everyone else, the background identity of the factions and the Imperium as a whole has been, let's call it watered down to avoid being mean.
Ironically that went hand in hand with writing ally rules that made the original idea of mixing Imperial factions appealing and specialized troops for every faction redundant. That's modern GW for you, I guess.
That reinforces that my big issue with the model is the collar. I don't have a problem with the bare head. Switching it out with a helmet looks just as bad in my opinion.
I think I could actually like the model after it's been under the knife for ten minutes.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
H.B.M.C. wrote: "A Canoness is armed with a Plasma Pistol, Master-Crafted Power Sword, Staff of the Ecclesiarchy, Frag and Krak Grenades... and nothing else... ever... because that's all our mono-pose miniature has. Suck it."
Not true. We'll likely have 4-5 alternate HQ or Elite character types to choose from.
Frankly though, I just don't care about the lack of weapon choices based on models. The units get whittled down to the most efficient by the tournament crowd and that funnels down to casuals as the "you'd be stupid to take anything but this" default choice.
So why bother with options, when everyone will only take 1 choice per unit anyway. That's a cynical take, but that's what net lists have done to the game.
Not everybody follows mindlessly along with netlisting, so why should all our options be taken away because some people aren't capable of independent thought?
Giantwalkingchair wrote: The hate for the plasma is the sisters have the holy trinity as their thing and the handful of plasma weaponry is an abberation.
It's the principal of the matter and arguments of them being there and being modelled are irrelevant in the face of such principals. To support plasma is tantamount to heresy.
You're right.
But so many of the Sister's traditions are centered around GW not wanting to make new models and the writers making excuses for this. I feel like its time to leave at least some of that behind so the Sisters range can grow and evolve.
Does the origin really matter? It's a cool bit of background, just like all the other cool bits of background that made the setting seem different and interesting that were originally based in some business or manufacturing limitation of Ye Olden 90's. Abandoning the STC narrative to give every Imperial faction its own Specialsnowflakius Pattern vehicles hasn't been an improvement IMO, the result is stuff like the terribad DA landspeeders and the ludicrous hovercraft-thing for Skitarii. Functionally retconning away the idea that only the Imperial Navy operates proper in-atmosphere combat aircraft allowed them to add loads of(often derpy as feth lookin') flyers to the Marines, and of course once they had that option for the flagship faction everybody else "had" to get them as well. For my money, that also wasn't an improvement to the game.
Factions are defined as much by their limits as their strengths, and the more they "grow and evolve", the more homogeneous and uninteresting they become.
I have no doubt all the "we want random new stuffz" people will get exactly what they want eventually, and that Sisters ten years from now will look very little like the Sisters that made me fall in love with the faction back when they first launched, but can you not wait until their first actual plastic release is out of the way before clamouring for changes? It'd be nice to have access to a complete "proper" Sisters army in plastic before GW start to "improve" them.
yes because ONLY the imperial Navy had fliers and until the stormraven came along space marines never used fliers.
-imgsnip-
If you're going to be sarcy, it helps to actually know what you're being sarcy about first so you don't look silly.
Thunderhawks were specifically exempted during the original division of military powers because they were presented primarily as transport craft and as such were required for Marines to function properly. They were combat capable in the context of their intended role, but they weren't actual fighters, interceptors, or bombers. If you think back, "it's totes just a transport honest guv" was actually the same nonsense GW tried to use to justify the original Chibihawk in fluff terms.
Navy handles space and air combat. Guard handles ground combat. Marines act as special forces and linebreakers. That was an interesting idea. Now everybody gets a fleet, everybody gets an airforce, everybody fights sieges etc etc, and all the thematic underpinning of a new-founded Imperium terrified of another Horus hacking its military apart and all of that, over time and along with everything else, degrading into factionalised semi-feudal bickering is lost, because GW want to flog another newshiny and Marine players can't handle the idea that there might be some areas of warfare where they have to depend on the rest of the Imperium.
All these little "limitations" lead to cool bits of background material like the Avenger being favoured by the Sisters for close support, and so often Navy squadrons of them end up on religious crusades. Except with the new approach, the Sisters would just get a newshiny flier of their own, flown by a Sister so nobody has to feel left out.
EDIT: Hah, already covered by Geifer. I must be typing slower in my old age.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/06 12:21:32
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
Giantwalkingchair wrote: The hate for the plasma is the sisters have the holy trinity as their thing and the handful of plasma weaponry is an abberation.
It's the principal of the matter and arguments of them being there and being modelled are irrelevant in the face of such principals. To support plasma is tantamount to heresy.
You're right.
But so many of the Sister's traditions are centered around GW not wanting to make new models and the writers making excuses for this. I feel like its time to leave at least some of that behind so the Sisters range can grow and evolve.
This is exactly the sort of heretical thinking I was talking about. I can I only say if you confess your heresy, you may be given the emperor's mercy. Or not and you shall be drowned in burning holy promethium as the heretic you are. /sillyzealotryisfun
All these little "limitations" lead to cool bits of background material like the Avenger being favoured by the Sisters for close support, and so often Navy squadrons of them end up on religious crusades. Except with the new approach, the Sisters would just get a newshiny flier of their own, flown by a Sister so nobody has to feel left out.
Good.
I really do care about the background, but on the general theme and feel level, not on pointless minutiae level of whether Sisters can have plasma pistols or whether Marine vehicles hover or not. I want each army to be thematically strong, and that also means visually. Giving each army their own unique vehicles is a big part of creating a visual theme, and if it contradicts some obscure decades old fluff bit, then that's absolutely fine. I really love how the Primaris (as awkward as their fluff is) have freed the marines from the shackles of the chapter organisation that was dreamed up ages ago when the game was completely different. We can get actual new stuff. And same goes for the Sisters; this line has been dormant for decades, being on life support with a very limited model line. Most of their units were just different configurations of the same basic metal models. I am really exited that there is a good chance that we're finally getting something new.
It just occurred to me that GW may have decided to call the Enforcers the Palanite Enforcers may be to avoid confusion with SoBPalatines.
Probably not.
All these little "limitations" lead to cool bits of background material like the Avenger being favoured by the Sisters for close support, and so often Navy squadrons of them end up on religious crusades. Except with the new approach, the Sisters would just get a newshiny flier of their own, flown by a Sister so nobody has to feel left out.
Good.
I really do care about the background, but on the general theme and feel level, not on pointless minutiae level of whether Sisters can have plasma pistols or whether Marine vehicles hover or not. I want each army to be thematically strong, and that also means visually. Giving each army their own unique vehicles is a big part of creating a visual theme, and if it contradicts some obscure decades old fluff bit, then that's absolutely fine. I really love how the Primaris (as awkward as their fluff is) have freed the marines from the shackles of the chapter organisation that was dreamed up ages ago when the game was completely different. We can get actual new stuff. And same goes for the Sisters; this line has been dormant for decades, being on life support with a very limited model line. Most of their units were just different configurations of the same basic metal models. I am really exited that there is a good chance that we're finally getting something new.
Fair enough. I suppose I'm just weird in that I tend to like things because of what they are, rather than for what they might be if all the things that make them unique and interesting were discarded
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/06 13:55:03
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
Fair enough. I suppose I'm just weird in that I tend to like things because of what they are, rather than for what they might be if all the things I like about them were discarded
I actually get caring about details, I do that with some other franchises. I just (thankfully) can't get into that sort of mindset with 40K, It is just too big and chaotic and full of contradictions to begin with. In 40K the big changes like Primarchs returning bug me a lot, but I couldn't care less whether a Sister character has this or that made up energy pistol or whether basic marines with boltguns are called Tactical or Intercessors. So yeah, I too do care if things I like are discarded, it just happens that for me the things I like in 40K are bigger concepts and themes, not the technical minutiae.
I love her, though I do hope we'll see some alternate weapon options in the kit, as a Canoness with surprise Eviscerator has always been a favourite of mine.
As for complaints about the collar- I initially thought it'd be a separate piece you just put into grooves on the shoulders but on closer inspection there seem to be seam lines (and not mould lines) suggesting they're integrated into the torso piece. Still, it's only plastic. You can cut the collar away and sub in some greenstuff for a smoother cloak.
), but it would really bother me if there are not other option in the kit and every canoness now must have a plasma pisto, power sword, fancy rod and a bionic leg.
