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 Melissia wrote:

 =Angel= wrote:
Black armour, holy plasma weapons and decorative robes

The funny part of this conversation is? Sisters did it first. Templars were released afterwards.

While that's true, I was referring to the first legion, the Dark Angels, who were wearing black armour when sisters were only a concept (and illustration of Sister Sin, in borrowed RTB01 armour with nipple spikes.)

In universe, the DA had been doing the robes and black armour first among marines and 4000 years before sisters (And the Templars had been doing it shortly after).

TBH I think the plasma pistol thing is a non issue. The exorcist organ guns do not fire bolter rounds, a crossbow strapped to a boltgun is not a boltgun. Powerswords and chainswords also exist outside the 'trinity'. Marines can have plasmapistols, guard sergeants can have them, sisters should certainly have access to them, in addition to thematic stuff like hand flamers and inferno pistols.

I am a fan of all the robed factions. I assume the new fluff allows for there to be enough plasma weaponry to go around.

And the Dark Angels have never needed a reason to be spiteful dicks.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Functionally retconning away the idea that only the Imperial Navy operates proper in-atmosphere combat aircraft allowed them to add loads of(often derpy as feth lookin') flyers to the Marines, and of course once they had that option for the flagship faction everybody else "had" to get them as well. For my money, that also wasn't an improvement to the game.

Umm, haven't marines canonically been fully autonomous from the Imperial Navy since at least Battlefleet Gothic (released 20 years ago)?

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Umm, haven't marines canonically been fully autonomous from the Imperial Navy since at least Battlefleet Gothic (released 20 years ago)?

Yep! The Imperial Navy and Imperial Guard are separate, but that doesn't mean other non-Munitorum forces can't have aerospace assets.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Functionally retconning away the idea that only the Imperial Navy operates proper in-atmosphere combat aircraft allowed them to add loads of(often derpy as feth lookin') flyers to the Marines, and of course once they had that option for the flagship faction everybody else "had" to get them as well. For my money, that also wasn't an improvement to the game.

Umm, haven't marines canonically been fully autonomous from the Imperial Navy since at least Battlefleet Gothic (released 20 years ago)?

Yes they have - but totally agree with how bad the GW flyers for marines look.

 Melissia wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Umm, haven't marines canonically been fully autonomous from the Imperial Navy since at least Battlefleet Gothic (released 20 years ago)?

Yep! The Imperial Navy and Imperial Guard are separate, but that doesn't mean other non-Munitorum forces can't have aerospace assets.

I imagine the existance of the stormhawk interceptor caused some complaints from the Imperial Navy (assuming they're not heresy era relics) but I imagine no one cares eneugh to make an issue over it

 Mr Morden wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Functionally retconning away the idea that only the Imperial Navy operates proper in-atmosphere combat aircraft allowed them to add loads of(often derpy as feth lookin') flyers to the Marines, and of course once they had that option for the flagship faction everybody else "had" to get them as well. For my money, that also wasn't an improvement to the game.

Umm, haven't marines canonically been fully autonomous from the Imperial Navy since at least Battlefleet Gothic (released 20 years ago)?

Yes they have - but totally agree with how bad the GW flyers for marines look.

Yeah; I love the Caestus design; the FW variants on storm ravens are nice enough; pretty much everything else looks like they stole GI joe toys or somethin'.

 CodeKantorBlue wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:

 Irbis wrote:
I mean, just look at USA - they had army and navy. Then navy wanted army too and suddenly, US marines.

Don't care to debate your other points, but this certainly isn't how the U.S. Marines came about.

Off topic but correct. Marines have existed as an infantry component of Navies since long before the Americas were colonised by Europeans (unless the Viking theories are true). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marines#History

Not sure what side you are arguing. At any rate, the Navy and Marines were created within a few weeks of each other, Navy (Oct, 1175) Marines (Nov, 1775) The Marines were actually operational before the Navy. And while they were indeed infantry in the sense that they moved about on foot, Marines at the time were far more involved with policing the Sailors on the ship and protecting any alcohol, stores and officers on ship then marching about and shooting stuff in the manner of actual infantry. While the Continental Marines did end up in some amphibious operations. My point was that the Army and Navy weren't hanging around for awhile and the Navy suddenly decided they wanted an Army too. Marines were an integral part of all Naval operations of the time and were created as such, most of the original 200ish Continental Marines were in the Corps before the Navy had any ships converted over to be merchantmen masquerading as ships of war.

As far as on topic, I think the Canoness model looks more like an Abbess rather than the traditional Sororitas HQ choice. Wouldn't be bad as a Missionary HQ, but I would struggle to see three of them on the table. Veridyan isn't going anywhere, and while her shoes are a bit lobster like, she fits that role far more than the render.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Functionally retconning away the idea that only the Imperial Navy operates proper in-atmosphere combat aircraft allowed them to add loads of(often derpy as feth lookin') flyers to the Marines, and of course once they had that option for the flagship faction everybody else "had" to get them as well. For my money, that also wasn't an improvement to the game.

Umm, haven't marines canonically been fully autonomous from the Imperial Navy since at least Battlefleet Gothic (released 20 years ago)?

Yes, to an extent. They're not supposed to have battleships or ships that fight ship to ship- the spacemarine fleet is supposed to support marines in ship to ship/ship to ground operations, not challenge the navy. Battle barges are just large transports, that happen to have a lot of guns.
On the ground/boarding operations, marines are not supposed to have mainline battle tanks or superheavy tanks. They are a strike force and codex restricts them from having the kind of numbers that would allow them to hold ground or occupy cities. They therefore focus on tearing out the heart of an enemy and killing them all.

I don't think they are supposed to have air superiority fighters either- drop pods bypass all that and thunderhawks are designed to punch through and deliver marines.

in fairness air superiority fighters makes sense, marines by definition can't wait around for the navy and having air units is priceless. I imagine the navy occasionally grumbles but everyone is willing to look the other way due to the obvious need....

BrianDavion wrote:
in fairness air superiority fighters makes sense, marines by definition can't wait around for the navy and having air units is priceless. I imagine the navy occasionally grumbles but everyone is willing to look the other way due to the obvious need....

Or because the chapter master would punch them in the head if they argued.

 =Angel= wrote:


Yes, to an extent. They're not supposed to have battleships or ships that fight ship to ship...Battle barges are just large transports, that happen to have a lot of guns.
...marines are not supposed to have mainline battle tanks or superheavy tanks.

...I don't think they are supposed to have air superiority fighters either...

Um...since when?

Their MO for ages now has been "capable of performing completely autonomously in any conceivable military engagement". Everything they have and do is geared around being like what everyone else does, but better and more self-reliant. It's been that way for ages.

Yes "decapitation strikes" are their go-to but they've had heavy armoured and air support forever and the only reason they never had more along the lines of gunships and air superiority fighters was because that was back when no one had much in the way of air units, period, because the only options were specialty FW Apocalypse-scale units. And even then they had a souped-up land speeder that was an ASF in all but name.

Is there somewhere else y'all can go to talk about the role of the Imperial Navy and the autonomy of Space Marines?

Yes please start a thread in 40k Background to discuss the relationship between Space Marine and the Navy. This thread is about Sisters of Battle. Thanks!

I don't mind the over the top collar, but I don't like the bionic leg or the sword tip in the dirt. I don't think any battle hardened canoness would hang around on the battlefield with her sword in such a way. I do like they made her older and I dig the habit. The model really stands out from the rank and file.

changemod wrote:
A quick mock-up of how she looks with the collar removed. I’d say I prefer it, she’s already plenty ornate without something throwing off the silhouette and making it look like she’d start to struggle with mobility.https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/downloadAttach/301223.page

The front stuff looks cut and pasted -
braziers are swinging hazards, sword tip should be dug into a magus skull like a melon, whatever cowl ...
age is cool,
but how does anyone get this old
swinging dull swords at demons
with burning embers at the ends of ribbons
wrapped around one's face
and smashing one's face in fiery sooty pain,
righteous and indeed dignified she may be, this is no veteran.
This one takes out the first couple,
then gets blinded by her own ashy extravagance,
only to be dragged down before the wrinkles ever show.

Hard pass.

Somehow, this sisters release
is turning into Storm Sisters respond to BGitG.

Not sure if I am digging it.

If they end up with a gotcha-jump-buggy on a base, then I might be out completely.

I was planning on at least adding enough to my current hoarded old metals,
some lovingly painted and converted,
and should with sisters certainly,
but so far the characters and others, pass.

 deviantduck wrote:
I don't mind the over the top collar, but I don't like the bionic leg or the sword tip in the dirt. I don't think any battle hardened canoness would hang around on the battlefield with her sword in such a way. I do like they made her older and I dig the habit. The model really stands out from the rank and file.

If she gets any kind of hero base(and she may come with one) the sword won't be in the dirt. I don't mind a bionic leg as a visual shorthand for veterancy but I'd prefer it look more skeletal. It doesn't read as bionic at first glance (paint will help) and we don't see the other leg for contrast.

I don't like the collar. It seems like they forgot to take it off after a parade march.

On a brighter note, I finally got my hands on a Sister Amalia Novena figure and it's even better in person than the pics and unboxing videos would indicate. If all the nuns with guns characters had that much care put into their sculpting, I'd have no issues with the monoposes. I haven't been that impressed with a GW fig since I got my hands on my first FW fig (Inquisitor Rex).

Will we see a tank today? A rule preview?

Sister Hospitaller:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/19/battle-sister-bulletin-part-14-the-sister-hospitallergw-homepage-post-3

Bah ninja'd.
Hospitallar looks fine. Bit too scenic in my opinion, and that looks like a huge base for an infantry model, but its fine.
I like the little details on the fallen Sister. She's actually missing parts of her armor, like the plate that goes over the abdomen and her greaves. That's a nice touch.

I'd like a vehicle preview. The only information on the penitent engine was a head.
Likely that it will be a showcase of another character model, Dialogus or Repentia Mistress.

I'm hoping that GW drops a SoB announcement at NoVA, even if it's just to mention the army is being released next year due to delays.


edit: Called it, I guess.
It's a great model and I really like that it's going to include a separate Sororitas Helmet with the interior modeled.

I love the model, but the base looks huge.

That's a super-static mini. Looks fine, but just seems like an excuse to charge like 45 bucks for a single 28mm mini lol.

Note the total lack of boobplate on the fallen sister.

Also, LOL - an alternate right hand and face are included if you want to have...two identically clothed hospitalliers with identical doves flying purity seals holding identical books in identical poses over identical dying sisters dying from the same wounds.

SO CUSTOMIZABLE AND UNIQUE!

the_scotsman wrote:
That's a super-static mini. Looks fine, but just seems like an excuse to charge like 45 bucks for a single 28mm mini lol.

Note the total lack of boobplate on the fallen sister.

Also, LOL - an alternate right hand and face are included if you want to have...two identically clothed hospitalliers with identical doves flying purity seals holding identical books in identical poses over identical dying sisters dying from the same wounds.

SO CUSTOMIZABLE AND UNIQUE!

She does have a boob plate though. Its just not as defined due to the lack of the abdominal plate. Look at the hospitaller armor and the fallen sister's armor.

the_scotsman wrote:
That's a super-static mini. Looks fine, but just seems like an excuse to charge like 45 bucks for a single 28mm mini lol.

Yeah. Much prefer her if she was just on a regular base without all the nonsense at her feet.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
That's a super-static mini. Looks fine, but just seems like an excuse to charge like 45 bucks for a single 28mm mini lol.

Yeah. Much prefer her if she was just on a regular base without all the nonsense at her feet.

Yeah, it would have been nicer if they kept the two separate. There were wounded soldier markers in the past. I dunno what they were used for, but that was a thing.

I am starting to get the feeling that the new sister designs are just decadent for the sake of decadence.

It does look like the Hospitaler is able to be separated from the scenic base.