blaktoof wrote:
You are correct.

Being In ambush is being deployed.

Being underground is being in reserves.

Once you play they came from below, the units are considered to be underground instead of in ambush.

Once you play they came from below the units are considered to be in reserves instead of deployed.

The only way to say they are still considered to be deployed(ambush) is to ignore that line from they came from below

Nothing In the stratagem states it is redeploying, which is actually wording GW uses for all redeployment rules.

tneva82 wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
You are correct.

Being In ambush is being deployed.

Being underground is being in reserves.

Once you play they came from below, the units are considered to be underground instead of in ambush.

Once you play they came from below the units are considered to be in reserves instead of deployed.

The only way to say they are still considered to be deployed(ambush) is to ignore that line from they came from below

Nothing In the stratagem states it is redeploying, which is actually wording GW uses for all redeployment rules.

Thing is strategem puts them out of battlefield after game has started. Going out of battlefield and coming out deep strike is legal as long as it's after deployment. Cases like that already exists. Only difference is this is lot more than 3x as effective

blaktoof wrote:
You are correct.

Being In ambush is being deployed.

Being underground is being in reserves.

Once you play they came from below, the units are considered to be underground instead of in ambush.

Once you play they came from below the units are considered to be in reserves instead of deployed.

The only way to say they are still considered to be deployed(ambush) is to ignore that line from they came from below

Nothing In the stratagem states it is redeploying, which is actually wording GW uses for all redeployment rules.

bananathug wrote:
Based on the FB post (WHICH IS NOT OFFICIAL) I think the interpretation that T1 DS was not intended but does work RAW seems to be the right one.

If they would have just said the blips count as deployed models only for rules governing deploying half of your army on the table but do not interact with reserve rules for deepstriking we wouldn't be having this issue. But they didn't and then didn't address it in the FAQ (doubling down as some have said in this thread).

I think the RAWs have it right but clearly it isn't RAI and is a results of sloppy rules writing (but I also thought that about the 1 point d6 hand flamers and uncapped MW from Onslaught)...

Banville wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
You are correct.

Being In ambush is being deployed.

Being underground is being in reserves.

Once you play they came from below, the units are considered to be underground instead of in ambush.

Once you play they came from below the units are considered to be in reserves instead of deployed.

The only way to say they are still considered to be deployed(ambush) is to ignore that line from they came from below

Nothing In the stratagem states it is redeploying, which is actually wording GW uses for all redeployment rules.

Thing is strategem puts them out of battlefield after game has started. Going out of battlefield and coming out deep strike is legal as long as it's after deployment. Cases like that already exists. Only difference is this is lot more than 3x as effective

This. The strat should be 3CP but it works as intended imo.

Solidcrash wrote:
I am thinking about paint underground theme on 3 blips and hidden them... until when I use stratagem on this 3 blips I just simply put 3 blips with underground painted anywhere on battlefield soon as I remove 3 normal blips. To avoid confusion.

Or if we are not allow to deep strike in turn one than Scanning Decoy stratagem is very useless!

Solidcrash wrote:
.

Or if we are not allow to deep strike in turn one than Scanning Decoy stratagem is very useless!

tneva82 wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
You are correct.

Being In ambush is being deployed.

Being underground is being in reserves.

Once you play they came from below, the units are considered to be underground instead of in ambush.

Once you play they came from below the units are considered to be in reserves instead of deployed.

The only way to say they are still considered to be deployed(ambush) is to ignore that line from they came from below

Nothing In the stratagem states it is redeploying, which is actually wording GW uses for all redeployment rules.

Thing is strategem puts them out of battlefield after game has started. Going out of battlefield and coming out deep strike is legal as long as it's after deployment. Cases like that already exists. Only difference is this is lot more than 3x as effective

Thepatriarch wrote:

Banville wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
You are correct.

Being In ambush is being deployed.

Being underground is being in reserves.

Once you play they came from below, the units are considered to be underground instead of in ambush.

Once you play they came from below the units are considered to be in reserves instead of deployed.

The only way to say they are still considered to be deployed(ambush) is to ignore that line from they came from below

Nothing In the stratagem states it is redeploying, which is actually wording GW uses for all redeployment rules.

Thing is strategem puts them out of battlefield after game has started. Going out of battlefield and coming out deep strike is legal as long as it's after deployment. Cases like that already exists. Only difference is this is lot more than 3x as effective

This. The strat should be 3CP but it works as intended imo.

Only if you assume factions can't be better at things then others and one faction can have something another factions has not, or can have something similar but cheaper/better because they are specialized in it.

Name the cases that already exist.

Banville wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
You are correct.

Being In ambush is being deployed.

Being underground is being in reserves.

Once you play they came from below, the units are considered to be underground instead of in ambush.

Once you play they came from below the units are considered to be in reserves instead of deployed.

The only way to say they are still considered to be deployed(ambush) is to ignore that line from they came from below

Nothing In the stratagem states it is redeploying, which is actually wording GW uses for all redeployment rules.

So, as has been said ad nauseum, it's effectively Da Jump on 3 units for 1 CP.

You're mistaken in arguing that a unit can't turn up Turn 1 after being place in reserves earlier in Turn 1.

I think there used to be 'ongoing reserves' in a previous edition. There's nothing like that now.

Banville wrote:

Solidcrash wrote:
I am thinking about paint underground theme on 3 blips and hidden them... until when I use stratagem on this 3 blips I just simply put 3 blips with underground painted anywhere on battlefield soon as I remove 3 normal blips. To avoid confusion.

Or if we are not allow to deep strike in turn one than Scanning Decoy stratagem is very useless!

You don't re-place the blips. The blips stay in your deployment zone until you trigger the strat. Then they disappear and the units reappear anywhere on the battlefield more than 9" away from the enemy.

It's nifty but will work precisely once against your friends before they screen their valuable stuff or throw scouts out to counter the deepstrike.

blaktoof wrote:

Banville wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
You are correct.

Being In ambush is being deployed.

Being underground is being in reserves.

Once you play they came from below, the units are considered to be underground instead of in ambush.

Once you play they came from below the units are considered to be in reserves instead of deployed.

The only way to say they are still considered to be deployed(ambush) is to ignore that line from they came from below

Nothing In the stratagem states it is redeploying, which is actually wording GW uses for all redeployment rules.

So, as has been said ad nauseum, it's effectively Da Jump on 3 units for 1 CP.

You're mistaken in arguing that a unit can't turn up Turn 1 after being place in reserves earlier in Turn 1.

I think there used to be 'ongoing reserves' in a previous edition. There's nothing like that now.

As has been said ad nauseum it is effectively saying the unit is considered to have been in reserves instead of deployed, it's previous state no longer matters as the stratagem tells you it is now considered to be underground(reserves) instead of being in ambush(deployed).

TBH I would actually like you to be correct as it allows my Ork army to DS my warlord +d3 units turn one if you are.

blaktoof wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
You are correct.

Being In ambush is being deployed.

Being underground is being in reserves.

Once you play they came from below, the units are considered to be underground instead of in ambush.

Once you play they came from below the units are considered to be in reserves instead of deployed.

The only way to say they are still considered to be deployed(ambush) is to ignore that line from they came from below

Nothing In the stratagem states it is redeploying, which is actually wording GW uses for all redeployment rules.

Thing is strategem puts them out of battlefield after game has started. Going out of battlefield and coming out deep strike is legal as long as it's after deployment. Cases like that already exists. Only difference is this is lot more than 3x as effective

Name the cases that already exist.

Carnikang wrote:

Solidcrash wrote:
.

Or if we are not allow to deep strike in turn one than Scanning Decoy stratagem is very useless!

No it itsnt? It allows you three more blips to deploy units from, allowing more flexibility in your placement when it comes time to reveal. Depending on Fist or Second, they could allow you to deploy in the rear of your zone, or the front.
It's still great for misdirection.

Banville wrote:

Solidcrash wrote:
I am thinking about paint underground theme on 3 blips and hidden them... until when I use stratagem on this 3 blips I just simply put 3 blips with underground painted anywhere on battlefield soon as I remove 3 normal blips. To avoid confusion.

Or if we are not allow to deep strike in turn one than Scanning Decoy stratagem is very useless!

You don't re-place the blips. The blips stay in your deployment zone until you trigger the strat. Then they disappear and the units reappear anywhere on the battlefield more than 9" away from the enemy.

It's nifty but will work precisely once against your friends before they screen their valuable stuff or throw scouts out to counter the deepstrike.

blaktoof wrote:

Banville wrote:

blaktoof wrote:


TBH I would actually like you to be correct as it allows my Ork army to DS my warlord +d3 units turn one if you are.

I don't know the Ork codex enough to tell you how many units it works on but Da Jump allows Turn 1 Deep Striking, doesn't it?

Banville wrote:

blaktoof wrote:


TBH I would actually like you to be correct as it allows my Ork army to DS my warlord +d3 units turn one if you are.

I don't know the Ork codex enough to tell you how many units it works on but Da Jump allows Turn 1 Deep Striking, doesn't it?

 Stux wrote:

Banville wrote:

blaktoof wrote:


TBH I would actually like you to be correct as it allows my Ork army to DS my warlord +d3 units turn one if you are.

I don't know the Ork codex enough to tell you how many units it works on but Da Jump allows Turn 1 Deep Striking, doesn't it?

No. Da Jump is used on units that are already on the battlefield.

Banville wrote:

 Stux wrote:

Banville wrote:

blaktoof wrote:


TBH I would actually like you to be correct as it allows my Ork army to DS my warlord +d3 units turn one if you are.

I don't know the Ork codex enough to tell you how many units it works on but Da Jump allows Turn 1 Deep Striking, doesn't it?

No. Da Jump is used on units that are already on the battlefield.

But so does the strat under discussion...?

Thepatriarch wrote:

Banville wrote:

 Stux wrote:

Banville wrote:

blaktoof wrote:


TBH I would actually like you to be correct as it allows my Ork army to DS my warlord +d3 units turn one if you are.

I don't know the Ork codex enough to tell you how many units it works on but Da Jump allows Turn 1 Deep Striking, doesn't it?

No. Da Jump is used on units that are already on the battlefield.

But so does the strat under discussion...?

The difference is they came from below works on 3 units, and puts them in reserves. Da jump is only 1 infantry units and redeploys them straight away.

 Stux wrote:
Though that doesn't even matter. For the Tactical Reserves rule, all that matters is where the unit was DEPLOYED.

If you originally deployed with Cult Ambush, the FAQ says you count as on the table for Tactical Reserves. So you can arrive turn 1, all the Tactical Reserves restrictions care about is where you were originally deployed.

blaktoof wrote:

 Stux wrote:
Though that doesn't even matter. For the Tactical Reserves rule, all that matters is where the unit was DEPLOYED.

If you originally deployed with Cult Ambush, the FAQ says you count as on the table for Tactical Reserves. So you can arrive turn 1, all the Tactical Reserves restrictions care about is where you were originally deployed.

And once you use they came from below the faq no longer matters because instead of being setup in ambush RAW they are setup underground which is reserves. It specifically calls out set up underground, and the units are no longer set up in ambush. The units at that point cannot use the faq to say they are setup on the table turn 1.

The faq says you count as being on the table if you are in ambush, they aren't in ambush if you use that stratagem so the no longer count as being deployed. The idea that using that stratagem means they were setup on the table then put in reserves is counter to the text saying they are instead setup underground, which means they are not setup deployed to the table.

blaktoof wrote:
If the stratagem makes it so the unit was set up underground instead of being setup in ambush.

Then it was never deployed on the table....because it was setup in reserves instead of on the table once you play that strat.


What you are saying is basically if an unit advances and then a player plays a stratagem that says that unit now counts as stationary for the purposes of shooting instead of advancing, it can now fire as if it advanced instead of as if it were stationary.

The people who thinks this works are literally arguing the unit is setup on the table, then the unit is no longer setup on the table but now is setup in reserves. It can now deploy anywhere because it is setup on the table and not reserves, but is deploying from being setup in reserves instead of being setup deployed to the table.

blaktoof wrote:
If the stratagem makes it so the unit was set up underground instead of being setup in ambush.

Then it was never deployed on the table....because it was setup in reserves instead of on the table once you play that strat.


What you are saying is basically if an unit advances and then a player plays a stratagem that says that unit now counts as stationary for the purposes of shooting instead of advancing, it can now fire as if it advanced instead of as if it were stationary.

The people who thinks this works are literally arguing the unit is setup on the table, then the unit is no longer setup on the table but now is setup in reserves. It can now deploy anywhere because it is setup on the table and not reserves, but is deploying from being setup in reserves instead of being setup deployed to the table.

Instead of being set up on the battlefield during Deployment, many units have the ability to be set up on teleportariums, in high orbit, in ambush,
etc., in order to arrive on the battlefield mid-game as reinforcements. When setting up your army during Deployment for a matched play game, at
least half the total number of units in your army must be set up on the battlefield, and the combined points value of all the units you set up on the
battlefield during Deployment (including those that are embarked within Transports that are set up on the battlefield) must be at least half of your
army’s total points value, even if every unit in your army has an ability that would allow them to be set up elsewhere.

Furthermore, in matched play games, units that are not placed on the battlefield during deployment in order to arrive on the battle mid-game as
reinforcements cannot arrive on the battlefield during the first battle round.

Finally, any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round in a matched play game counts as having been destroyed.

blaktoof wrote:
Yep and the stratagem changes where they count as having been during deployment as they are now setup underground instead of setup to ambush once the stratagem is played. Hence the use of the words setup for both ambush and underground, it changes where the unit was deployed.

This wording is nothing like burrow for mawloc or skyleap for swooping Hawks which deals with units entering reserves from being setup on the table.

Much like rules that can modify if an unit moved previously or not for current rules.