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Complaining this film is “borderline rotten for non-MCU fans” is, well, OBVIOUS. They’re not selling it to anyone who isn’t already invested. It’s Part Twenty-something in a sequence.
Really, that’s the weirdest complaint you can possibly level at it. It’s quite literally the opposite of a jumping on point. It’s a wrap up, and a setup for the next phase (which will be a jumping on point again).
Honestly, if you disliked the movie that’s cool, but hyperbolic silliness like that is just silly. And the “coddling” thing is just trying to establish some faux intellectual superiority. Reeks of Stop Liking What I Don’t Like.
Stormonu wrote: For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
Elemental wrote: See, that was okay right up to the end. But you couldn't just leave it at your dislike of the movie simply being your opinion (which is entirely fine). You just had to get in a snarky dig about how people who did like it are "coddled", and therefore your opinion is superior to theirs. Poor form.
Coddled: treat in an indulgent or overprotective way.
Fanservice: is material in a work of fiction or in a fictional series which is intentionally added to please the audience.
I used coddled because fanserviced doesn't sound quite right. I clearly hate fanservice, even the idea of it, but if you enjoy it that's fine. I think the Fast and the Furious films are a load of rubbish, but some people enjoy them, that's their opinion. Art is extremely subjective. Unless it's something that advocates for abuse, racism, etc, I don't particularly care if you like it. I just observed that I don't understand how you can enjoy Endgame if you dislike fanservice, but I phrased it in a less than tactful way so for that I apologize.
"You can't take offence at the word I used, because I actually meant this other word which has a different meaning, and which I didn't actually use."
I really can't control what you take offense at. If you're bothered that I didn't like this movie and thought it was coddling, well, that's on you.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
JohnnyHell wrote: Complaining this film is “borderline rotten for non-MCU fans” is, well, OBVIOUS. They’re not selling it to anyone who isn’t already invested. It’s Part Twenty-something in a sequence.
Really, that’s the weirdest complaint you can possibly level at it. It’s quite literally the opposite of a jumping on point. It’s a wrap up, and a setup for the next phase (which will be a jumping on point again).
Honestly, if you disliked the movie that’s cool, but hyperbolic silliness like that is just silly. And the “coddling” thing is just trying to establish some faux intellectual superiority. Reeks of Stop Liking What I Don’t Like.
Really? Because many of the MCU films work fine as stand alone films or at least aren't 180~ minutes of self indulgent callbacks. Infinity War didn't trade quality of plot, visuals, and pacing for the sake of fan service.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/28 00:08:59
The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
2019/04/28 02:45:43
Subject: Re:Avengers: Endgame -- spoilers so beware
And neither did Endgame, in the opinion of just about everybody except yourself. Though I expect you'll just take that as further evidence of your ostensibly superior taste
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/28 02:45:52
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
It's fine. Like what you like. If you didn't enjoy it then good. Enjoy what you do enjoy.
But I didn't think this was self indulgence in trade for plot. This was earned pay off in service to plot.
Spoiler:
In order for there to be decent writing going forward in the MCU it demanded that something be done about the infinity stones so that they were not always an answer to everything in the MCU going forward. Removing them entirely from the time line is a good answer to that.
The Pyrrhic victory of killing Thanos at the beginning with him removing the stones from existence is great. Thor has been on a downward spiral since Thor 2 and this being the nail in the coffin that breaks him is excellent for his ark.
Time travel to the points when they know the infinity stones are around is a good way for them to both call back to moments that everyone who has been on this ride can find appreciation in AND a great way to get an answer for the snap. Tony's kid is also a great plot element. It means that when they undo the snap its not as if the snap never happened. People are back but the damage has also been done. World need to recover. Many are still devastatingly traumatized. Others need to now find a place in a world that spent 5 years trying to move on from them.
Thors in space with Cap old and Tony dead. When Galactus shows up eventually we don't have to ask where are the power houses of the old Avengers team. They are not here any more. There is now room for Spiderman, Cassie Lang (now roughly spidermans age and able to be Stature), Hawkeyes Daughter (a stand in for Kate Bishop) and others to take a leading role in dealing with the new threats. Or at least for us to watch them grow into positions where they can be those people. They still have mentors. Antman, Wasp, Dr. Strange, Hawkeye proper, Smart Hulk, to point the way and give some mentorship. But there is more room for Peter Parker to do something more than pine for Tonys affection.
This isn't self indulgence for self indulgences sake. This is a logical path that gets to send them off with a trip down memory lane and pave a new path forward.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Ssssssssooooooooooooo..... Did all of Parker’s classmates get Snapped as well or is he just five years younger than everyone else now?
Spoiler:
It looks like the main cast all got snapped. But probably others did not. Interestingly, if Vultures Daughter did not got snapped she would be 5 years older and may come back as an actual adult Lady Vulture.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Ssssssssooooooooooooo..... Did all of Parker’s classmates get Snapped as well or is he just five years younger than everyone else now?
Spoiler:
It looks like the main cast all got snapped. But probably others did not. Interestingly, if Vultures Daughter did not got snapped she would be 5 years older and may come back as an actual adult Lady Vulture.
Spoiler:
At the very least, Ned appeared to be the same age, so we can assume he got snapped and came back. And MJ and Flash appear to be the same age in the FFH trailer.
Honestly, Endgame has done a lot for my level of excitement towards the upcoming Spidey outing. I kind of get the feeling that it'll act as an epilogue of sorts to the Infinity Saga. Peter Parker is the perfect character to act as a viewpoint on how the regular, non-superheroic world changed in those 5 years and deal with the aftermath of all that. There's also the implication in the trailers that Mysterio is trying to set himself up as an Iron Man-alike, which obviously isn't going to go down well with Peter given Stark's sacrifice.
Of all the MCU heroes, Peter is still probably the most 'ground level' outside of the defunct Netflixverse, so Far From Home will be the best chance we get to see what a post-Endgame world looks like to the regular mortals.
2019/04/28 10:56:35
Subject: Re:Avengers: Endgame -- spoilers so beware
I really liked the movie, it was better than the previous one in my opinion. Some great emotive moments (like the beginning with Hawkeye especially but towards the end I was disappointed in some aspects that I'll explain in spoilers:
Spoiler:
One thing I was afraid with this movie was that everyone would be back and no characters died. That's what impressed me greatly with the first IW, it's that they dared snap half the cast just like that. It made sense they would try to bring them back in the second obviously but I hoped for a few deaths to add a real tragedy aspect to the movie. First there was Black Widow, which was really well-done, we could see Hawkeye's pain when he woke up with the Soul stone afterwards and it was great. Then we have Tony Stark's sacrifice which is also amazing.
But I really like Thanos as a badass villain and while I loved seeing him fight the other Avengers (and especially going mad on Cap's shield) I was really disappointed that he didn't kill a single Avenger/other character by himself. They manage to survive somehow to the blows of a guy who can fist-fight hulk without apparent serious injuries ? Okay for Captain Marvel and Thor because they're not exactly human, but Captain America and Scarlet Witch for example shouldn't be able to withstand blows like that and just get up. It was enough of a plot-armour element that they all survived the bombing of the HQ earlier. So in my opinion I think Thanos should have killed at least one character by himself in the fight to retain some credibility, when he started pushing the axe into Thor's chest I thought "this is it" but no then Captain plot armour saves the day.
So in the end they won, lost two important characters (because now it's doubtful Loki died) and call it a great tragedy while bringing everyone back alive. It really mocks the Thanos threat in my opinion and so we have 22 movies with two important characters dead in my memory (which is not perfect as I didn't watch every movie). Just disappointed in that part but that's my opinion.
40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts
2019/04/28 11:55:24
Subject: Re:Avengers: Endgame -- spoilers so beware
I definitely feel like Infinity War was the better, more self-contained film. I walked out of Endgame feeling a little let down, though the more I sleep on it the more I think I was maybe being a little too hard on it. Anyway, thoughts below...
Spoiler:
I had some issues with the first act. How the flying feth does Captain Marvel know exactly where Tony is? She just appears in front of him. I kept waiting for some kind of explanation but none was forthcoming. It just seemed like 'we need Tony back on Earth, the how is not important.' I also didn't really like how they completely glossed over her meeting the rest of the team, though I suppose I can chalk that one up to the sake of brevity. 3 hours is pretty long as is. Final issue with the first act was how quickly Tony figures out time travel. Seemed like they showed up at Tony's door, told him the plan, and then he stays up late and figures it out. Boom, they now have time travel. Didn't make a whole lot of sense to me that he was the one to do it either, Tony's an engineer not a temporal mechanics genius.
The second act of the film was awesome fan service. It was great seeing iconic scenes from the rest of the MCU from different perspectives, and the scenes that they added were brilliant. The Hydra team showing up to claim Loki's scepter, running into Robert Redford in the lobby, future Thor talking to his mom - that was all great stuff. Really enjoyed it.
The third act of the film is tough because while I loved the sheer spectacle they gave us, some of the narrative decisions just didn't sit well with me. How Captain Marvel shows up at the end is a total mystery. No one tells her the plan and she explicitly says she's too busy dealing with the rest of space to worry about Earth, yet conveniently shows up for the final conflict anyway. More egregiously though, Guardians of the Galaxy beats us over the head with the idea that no mortal can withstand the power of even a single infinity stone. The Collector's associate dies doing it, the Collector himself explains that it's impossible even if you have a group of people sharing the load, Ronan himself has to slap it into his hammer and can't touch it directly, and even the Guardians themselves almost die despite Peter being half celestial. So, knowing this, how the hell does Tony wield all 6 stones? It makes zero sense at all, and really cheapened Tony's death for me.
Another issue I have, and someone above me posted much the same thing, is that Thanos doesn't kill a single damn Avenger himself. Tony dies through his own action, Black Widow kills herself willingly, and even Gamora isn't really 'dead' since we now have past Gamora in the current timeline anyway. We spent over 20 films building up to this villain, it was kind of a letdown for me that he doesn't exact a higher toll on the heroes. I kept waiting for an emotional gut punch that just never happened.
I'll probably watch it again to see how it holds up the second time. I felt similarly let down when I walked out of Ragnarok, but that became one of my favorites with subsequent viewings.
I think I agree with your points, though the "this does not make sense" points were easier for me to handwave than the "this is not very satisfying" point you make last.
creeping-deth87 wrote: I definitely feel like Infinity War was the better, more self-contained film. I walked out of Endgame feeling a little let down, though the more I sleep on it the more I think I was maybe being a little too hard on it. Anyway, thoughts below...
Spoiler:
I had some issues with the first act. How the flying feth does Captain Marvel know exactly where Tony is? She just appears in front of him. I kept waiting for some kind of explanation but none was forthcoming. It just seemed like 'we need Tony back on Earth, the how is not important.' I also didn't really like how they completely glossed over her meeting the rest of the team, though I suppose I can chalk that one up to the sake of brevity. 3 hours is pretty long as is. Final issue with the first act was how quickly Tony figures out time travel. Seemed like they showed up at Tony's door, told him the plan, and then he stays up late and figures it out. Boom, they now have time travel. Didn't make a whole lot of sense to me that he was the one to do it either, Tony's an engineer not a temporal mechanics genius.
The second act of the film was awesome fan service. It was great seeing iconic scenes from the rest of the MCU from different perspectives, and the scenes that they added were brilliant. The Hydra team showing up to claim Loki's scepter, running into Robert Redford in the lobby, future Thor talking to his mom - that was all great stuff. Really enjoyed it.
The third act of the film is tough because while I loved the sheer spectacle they gave us, some of the narrative decisions just didn't sit well with me. How Captain Marvel shows up at the end is a total mystery. No one tells her the plan and she explicitly says she's too busy dealing with the rest of space to worry about Earth, yet conveniently shows up for the final conflict anyway. More egregiously though, Guardians of the Galaxy beats us over the head with the idea that no mortal can withstand the power of even a single infinity stone. The Collector's associate dies doing it, the Collector himself explains that it's impossible even if you have a group of people sharing the load, Ronan himself has to slap it into his hammer and can't touch it directly, and even the Guardians themselves almost die despite Peter being half celestial. So, knowing this, how the hell does Tony wield all 6 stones? It makes zero sense at all, and really cheapened Tony's death for me.
Another issue I have, and someone above me posted much the same thing, is that Thanos doesn't kill a single damn Avenger himself. Tony dies through his own action, Black Widow kills herself willingly, and even Gamora isn't really 'dead' since we now have past Gamora in the current timeline anyway. We spent over 20 films building up to this villain, it was kind of a letdown for me that he doesn't exact a higher toll on the heroes. I kept waiting for an emotional gut punch that just never happened.
I'll probably watch it again to see how it holds up the second time. I felt similarly let down when I walked out of Ragnarok, but that became one of my favorites with subsequent viewings.
Spoiler:
I'm making assumptions here, but I suspect the answer is Because Vibranium. In Age of Ultron and Black Panther they make a big deal out of how Vibranium is so much more than just metal to make Cap's frisbee out of, and it's reasonable to believe that Tony's nanotech suit is based on the same concepts and materials as Shuri's modern Panther tech. It's also possible Thor shares a few bits of Asgardian and/or Dwarven wisdom with the team. All together, you have a gauntlet built from Vibranium nanotech by a supergenius quite possibly with Asgardian know-wots - I think that's just about enough to make it plausible that a regular pleb could briefly use the stones at the certain cost of their own life. Mind, Hulk only expected to survive using it because the main negative byproduct of their glove is Gamma and he's already about as saturated by that as you can get.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/28 19:04:54
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
2019/04/28 19:31:37
Subject: Re:Avengers: Endgame -- spoilers so beware
I have to say, I loved this movie, I predicited not to many would die but the Status Quo would be crazy changed and it was so that makes me happy
While I know part of the Netflix canceled was that netflix diddnt see much into the properties, makes me wonder if they new about the status quo change and decided not to deal with it.
My favorite was Thanos, He wasnt some tortured soul doing something he didnt want to help the world, He was a villain, evil and wanting to destroy everything.
Another thing was, just the callbacks to everything. Hail Hydra being may favorite
I truly think the best moment was when they Said "Shes Got Help" and we see all the Women of the Mcu fight as won.
I feel like this was a true culmination of what we fans have been sitting through, We sat theough the bad, the mediocre and the great, and we got this, A film that pretty much says "This goes out to you" and tips its hat
Also, I can now say "I got a body like a Norse God"
Is Loki In play again? It seems like he might be, but im glad the movie didnt deal too much with ramification of time travel, I hate what films do that.
My favourite moment was Captain Marvel's return. Her, "Hey Peter Parker, what you got for me?", exchange with Peter Parker as she picked up the Infinity Gauntlet baton amused me no end.
I didn't have any major issues with the all girl line up that followed, but let's be honest, she didn't need it.... unless she was a bit tired after having taken down Thanos's cruiser on her tod
EDIT - Oh and Future Nebula and Past Nebula sharing the same wi-fi was a genius plot device
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/04/28 20:12:24
I have to say, I loved this movie, I predicited not to many would die but the Status Quo would be crazy changed and it was so that makes me happy
While I know part of the Netflix canceled was that netflix diddnt see much into the properties, makes me wonder if they new about the status quo change and decided not to deal with it.
My favorite was Thanos, He wasnt some tortured soul doing something he didnt want to help the world, He was a villain, evil and wanting to destroy everything.
Another thing was, just the callbacks to everything. Hail Hydra being may favorite
I truly think the best moment was when they Said "Shes Got Help" and we see all the Women of the Mcu fight as won.
I feel like this was a true culmination of what we fans have been sitting through, We sat theough the bad, the mediocre and the great, and we got this, A film that pretty much says "This goes out to you" and tips its hat
Also, I can now say "I got a body like a Norse God"
Is Loki In play again? It seems like he might be, but im glad the movie didnt deal too much with ramification of time travel, I hate what films do that.
I always kind of thought Netflix was getting rid of their shows because of Disney's new streaming service. I haven't seen where Disney outright said Netflix cannot make more, but I would bet the contracts got more expensive and Netflix just said, it wasn't worth it.
Spoiler:
As to Loki, there's going to be a new series with him as the main focus, so yeah, he is still around in some way. Maybe it will be sort of a "Quantum Leap/Dr. Who type show where Loki hops around human history sewing discord.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/28 20:35:45
Lance845 wrote: It's fine. Like what you like. If you didn't enjoy it then good. Enjoy what you do enjoy.
But I didn't think this was self indulgence in trade for plot. This was earned pay off in service to plot.
Spoiler:
In order for there to be decent writing going forward in the MCU it demanded that something be done about the infinity stones so that they were not always an answer to everything in the MCU going forward. Removing them entirely from the time line is a good answer to that.
The Pyrrhic victory of killing Thanos at the beginning with him removing the stones from existence is great. Thor has been on a downward spiral since Thor 2 and this being the nail in the coffin that breaks him is excellent for his ark.
Time travel to the points when they know the infinity stones are around is a good way for them to both call back to moments that everyone who has been on this ride can find appreciation in AND a great way to get an answer for the snap. Tony's kid is also a great plot element. It means that when they undo the snap its not as if the snap never happened. People are back but the damage has also been done. World need to recover. Many are still devastatingly traumatized. Others need to now find a place in a world that spent 5 years trying to move on from them.
Thors in space with Cap old and Tony dead. When Galactus shows up eventually we don't have to ask where are the power houses of the old Avengers team. They are not here any more. There is now room for Spiderman, Cassie Lang (now roughly spidermans age and able to be Stature), Hawkeyes Daughter (a stand in for Kate Bishop) and others to take a leading role in dealing with the new threats. Or at least for us to watch them grow into positions where they can be those people. They still have mentors. Antman, Wasp, Dr. Strange, Hawkeye proper, Smart Hulk, to point the way and give some mentorship. But there is more room for Peter Parker to do something more than pine for Tonys affection.
This isn't self indulgence for self indulgences sake. This is a logical path that gets to send them off with a trip down memory lane and pave a new path forward.
It was self indulgent in that:
Spoiler:
They used time travel the way they did for the sake of doing fan service callbacks. Time travel opens up huge gaping plot holes that ruin the film's writing for me.
1) It's established in Endgame that at least Dr. Strange is capable of opening a portal from Titan to Earth. We don't know how great that distance is or what the exact requirements for opening a portal is, but we know that the distance is very damn far. Let's make one assumption here, other named wizards are as proficient with portals as he is.
2) It is also established that the person who acquires the Soul Stone is not the only who can use it. Hawkeye is the one who brings it back, but both Hulk and Tony use the the 6 gem gauntlet.
3) There is no real limit to the Pym Particles available. They can a) go steal more from the past (as they did in the movie) or b) figure out how to make more.
The combination of these three factors means that they can essentially travel an infinite amount of times to any point in the space time continuum nearly instantly thanks to portals. They also do not need to sacrifice anyone to acquire the Soul Stone. They also have freaking Ant Man who is expected by no one meaning that they can access most places undetected.
Take the Soul Stone from Thanos while he is passed out Vormir and return it there.
Take the Reality Stone from the Collector.
Take the Power Stone from the planet Quill was on or from the Nova Corps.
Take the Tesseract from the Shield vault.
Take the Mind Stone from the tower anytime after Avengers/before AOU.
Ideally, go deal directly with Strange for the Time Stone and convince that one to help you portal around if the other wizards are sucky.
Snap your fingers, bring everyone back, take the Stones back, roll credits.
Or put in another way Natasha and Tony died due to lazy writing.
This is the problem with Time Travel stories. There is no suspense. You just get to reset and reset over and over again until you win.
The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
2019/04/28 23:17:29
Subject: Re:Avengers: Endgame -- spoilers so beware
What's the fix then to the Thanos paradox? Thanos from the past is killed
in his future/MCU present/EArth 616 (or whatever the designation is). Does
that mean that despite their best intentions to return the Infinity Stones to
the past, do they create a branch universe where Thanos never happens?
And now that present MCU doesn't have Infinity Stones does that open
up the universe to more...cosmic threats?
Or does killing past Thanos repair all that? It happened, but it didn't happen,
so Infinity stones exist, Thanos does not? (I think that would be the paradox
though).
DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++ Get your own Dakka Code!
"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude
2019/04/28 23:24:15
Subject: Re:Avengers: Endgame -- spoilers so beware
malfred wrote: Question. I haven't followed Marvel in a while.
Spoiler:
What's the fix then to the Thanos paradox? Thanos from the past is killed
in his future/MCU present/EArth 616 (or whatever the designation is). Does
that mean that despite their best intentions to return the Infinity Stones to
the past, do they create a branch universe where Thanos never happens?
And now that present MCU doesn't have Infinity Stones does that open
up the universe to more...cosmic threats?
Or does killing past Thanos repair all that? It happened, but it didn't happen,
so Infinity stones exist, Thanos does not? (I think that would be the paradox
though).
Spoiler:
Banner pretty much says "There is no changinging the Future because once you go to the past, you future is you past"
What he is saying is essentially what has happened has not changed.
But honestly, dont overthink it, Time travel has this reputation for being bad for stories, but really only bad after the fact when people can look at it more critical and nitpick
5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
2019/04/28 23:31:45
Subject: Re:Avengers: Endgame -- spoilers so beware
malfred wrote: Question. I haven't followed Marvel in a while.
Spoiler:
What's the fix then to the Thanos paradox? Thanos from the past is killed
in his future/MCU present/EArth 616 (or whatever the designation is). Does
that mean that despite their best intentions to return the Infinity Stones to
the past, do they create a branch universe where Thanos never happens?
And now that present MCU doesn't have Infinity Stones does that open
up the universe to more...cosmic threats?
Or does killing past Thanos repair all that? It happened, but it didn't happen,
so Infinity stones exist, Thanos does not? (I think that would be the paradox
though).
Spoiler:
Basically, there is now a time line where Thanos and the black order stopped existing in 2014. AND there is a time line where The Infinity stones no longer exist currently (they were broken down into their base atoms, but something like that is likely to reform at some point). I would say the introduction to time travel means Kang The Conqueror is now on the table for future movies.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2019/04/28 23:50:59
Subject: Re:Avengers: Endgame -- spoilers so beware
So just came back having watched it and I must say its an unbridled.... meh, there is so much wrong with this film other than the run time, I actually got bored watching it, the bits I did like were how little captain marvel was in it and the lady avengers part was good, makes me want to see paltrow take up the iron man mantle, they turned thanos into a run of the mill bad guy which I kind of get given that its supposed to be him earlier in his life, still did not like it though, the plot holes created by this film are vast too.... just... meh
Did I blink and miss Phil Coulson? Besides having his own show for 4 (soon 5) seasons he is the one who brought the Avengers together in the first place. I thought it might be the TV vs movies issue but he was in Capt Marvel...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/29 02:26:35
My favourite moment was Captain Marvel's return. Her, "Hey Peter Parker, what you got for me?", exchange with Peter Parker as she picked up the Infinity Gauntlet baton amused me no end.
I didn't have any major issues with the all girl line up that followed, but let's be honest, she didn't need it.... unless she was a bit tired after having taken down Thanos's cruiser on her tod
EDIT - Oh and Future Nebula and Past Nebula sharing the same wi-fi was a genius plot device
On the lineup comment:
Spoiler:
One thing that has kind of nagged at me is that it never felt like the Guardians got a team moment in the fight and I kind of feel like that scene might have played better with Quill making the charge and his friends providing backup. I'm mildly curious if the spat they were having reduced their overall role in the fight, honestly. But yeah, that scene as is was cool and begging to be a poster or wallpaper and only really weird because Carol in no way needed the backup.
Did I blink and miss Phil Coulson? Besides having his own show for 4 (soon 5) seasons he is the one who brought the Avengers together in the first place. I thought it might be the TV vs movies issue but he was in Capt Marvel...
There is no paradox. You cannot change the future by altering the past. Bruce flat out states that. Then the Ancient One further clarifies by telling Bruce that removing the stones from their respective time creates splintered realities, all of which are fixed by returning the stones to where they come from. At the end Steve goes back to 'clip all the branches', avoiding the chance of alternate timelines by returning the stones.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/04/29 02:31:54
Did I blink and miss Phil Coulson? Besides having his own show for 4 (soon 5) seasons he is the one who brought the Avengers together in the first place. I thought it might be the TV vs movies issue but he was in Capt Marvel...
There is no paradox. You cannot change the future by altering the past. Bruce flat out states that. Then the Ancient One further clarifies by telling Bruce that removing the stones from their respective time creates splintered realities, all of which are fixed by returning the stones to where they come from. At the end Steve goes back to 'clip all the branches', avoiding the chance of alternate timelines by returning the stones.
Re: the stones
Spoiler:
Do you think that's enough for Steve to do that? I mean,
I guess it has to be if the plot says so, but could they use it
to offshoot new alternate reality films? Or is that just crazy
regular comic book talk?
DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++ Get your own Dakka Code!
"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude
They used time travel the way they did for the sake of doing fan service callbacks. Time travel opens up huge gaping plot holes that ruin the film's writing for me.
1) It's established in Endgame that at least Dr. Strange is capable of opening a portal from Titan to Earth. We don't know how great that distance is or what the exact requirements for opening a portal is, but we know that the distance is very damn far. Let's make one assumption here, other named wizards are as proficient with portals as he is.
Okay. I agree with this. I don't see how this is a plot hole. The Avengers don't know other wizards and clearly they make a habit of keeping them and their world off the radar of everyone else.
Spoiler:
2) It is also established that the person who acquires the Soul Stone is not the only who can use it. Hawkeye is the one who brings it back, but both Hulk and Tony use the the 6 gem gauntlet.
Again, I agree but it's also not a plot hole. It's just a thing that has always been. Acquiring the soul stone is an issue. Once it's out there it's out there and nobody ever says otherwise.
Spoiler:
3) There is no real limit to the Pym Particles available. They can a) go steal more from the past (as they did in the movie) or b) figure out how to make more.
"Figure out how to make more" is silly. It's Hank Pyms life work. The number of people who know how to produce Pym Particles in a form that would be stable and usable is Hank Hope and Janet. All 3 are gone. Hanks protoge takes years, maybe a decade, working with Hank to piece together an UNSTABLE version for himself that kind of drives him mad when he uses them. Nobody there could just "make more".
The reason they can't just go take more in their initial plan is 1) disrupting as little as possible and 2) adding extra complication to a plan thats already hanging by a thread. They did what they did as a last ditch effort.
[spoiler]
The combination of these three factors means that they can essentially travel an infinite amount of times to any point in the space time continuum nearly instantly thanks to portals. They also do not need to sacrifice anyone to acquire the Soul Stone. They also have freaking Ant Man who is expected by no one meaning that they can access most places undetected.
Take the Soul Stone from Thanos while he is passed out Vormir and return it there.
They would need to go to some time before Thanos went to Vormir, find a wizard and convince them to help. Get them to teleport them. The rules of the sling ring portals established in Dr. Strange is that they need to picture where they want to go. The more clear the picture the more likely they are to succeed. I.E. they need a wizard who has been to Vormir to send them to Vormir. Then, after finding this person that does not exist they need to know the moment when Thanos was passed out there. Since he was alone, nobody knows that. So... more good fething luck.
Spoiler:
Take the Reality Stone from the Collector.
The idea being that the collector would have no defenses? Thor at least has the advantage of walking into his home and knowing down to the room it was in. They go after the collector they have no idea where exactly he was keeping it and it turns into a search/heist/battle to get it. No. Taking it from the recovering Jane Foster is the safer bet. See needing a Wizard who can teleport them to Nowhere.
Spoiler:
Take the Power Stone from the planet Quill was on or from the Nova Corps.
They did the first, they would have to convince or fight the Nova Corps for the other. See needing a wizard who can teleport them to Xandar or Morag.
Spoiler:
Take the Tesseract from the Shield vault.
Now, being a earth, it is significantly MORE likely to succeed reaching a shield base with a sling ring. At least they can appear outside and then go room they can see to room they can see. That being said, again, they would have to fight their way through it all.
Spoiler:
Take the Mind Stone from the tower anytime after Avengers/before AOU.
It wasn't in the tower. It was in Project Pegasus with Strucker under Hydra control. And they only KNOW it was there when they attacked at the beginning of AoU. They don't know WHEN it arrived there or anywhere it was in between the 2.
Spoiler:
Ideally, go deal directly with Strange for the Time Stone and convince that one to help you portal around if the other wizards are sucky.
It COULD work except it splits up the team even more. Having more people to back each other up is better then going alone. Thats why it was such an advantage to go to the battle of NY and try to grab 3 stones at once. See how thin the thread the plan was hanging on was. Nobody making this plan knew where Pym was until Tony remembers his fathers Journals mentioning the tesseract and working with Pym.
Spoiler:
Snap your fingers, bring everyone back, take the Stones back, roll credits.
Or put in another way Natasha and Tony died due to lazy writing.
This is the problem with Time Travel stories. There is no suspense. You just get to reset and reset over and over again until you win.
They didn't get to reset. Any Natasha they try to recover would be a time displaced one who did not experience all the events between when they picked her up and when she died. Tony dies because it's the only way. Dr. Strange shows tony his 1 finger, saying "In only one version do we win" just as tony is thinking of making the sacrifice play. Tony had to die. If he didn't the universe would have been unmade.
Do you think that's enough for Steve to do that? I mean,
I guess it has to be if the plot says so, but could they use it
to offshoot new alternate reality films? Or is that just crazy
regular comic book talk?
Spoiler:
There is a series that is going to be on Disney Plus that is What If? I imagine that whole series is going to be alternate reality stories.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/04/29 02:54:32
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++ Get your own Dakka Code!
"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude
malfred wrote: Disney plus almost gets me for that. Almost.
Well 70.00 a year. Animated What If with the first episode announced to be What If Peggy Carter took the super soldier serum? and getting almost every actor back for the voices (i imagine hugo weaving is out for red skull but just about everyone else is back). Winder Solder and the Falcon live action series. Scarlett Witch and the Vision live action series. Loki live action series. Starwars: The Mandalorian. Plus the massive catalog of Disney, Mavel, SW, and Fox properties just about all of that on release day.
I... honestly can't figure out why anyone would choose any other streaming service over Disney Plus at that price point.
I just hope the interface is not Hulu's complete gak one.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/29 03:13:50
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
One Disney+ rreleases im gonna keep that and Netflix(For the original movies and shows) and drop Hulu.
They said every single movie disney has produced will be there.
Hell we may get Song of The South
5000pts 
6000pts 
3000pts
