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I'm pretty sure after some thought that he definitely went and lived as a hero from the 40's on in an alternate timeline created by his appearance in the past, and then as an old man he used his suit and remaining Pym particles to return back to where he left, bringing along his trusty shield to give to Falcon.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I'm pretty sure after some thought that he definitely went and lived as a hero from the 40's on in an alternate timeline created by his appearance in the past, and then as an old man he used his suit and remaining Pym particles to return back to where he left, bringing along his trusty shield to give to Falcon.

Then he should have came back via the main time machine, not by the shore where it's heavily implied that he stayed in the same timeline until he got old. Plus, how did he get back then without the machine? It's not like his transponder is linked with any other time machine.

That's also way too much of a jump from what was shown on film. Objectively speaking.

But also, it's completely fine. It's completely ok for you to go with that's how it happened. Death of the Author is a thing and if it helps you enjoy the movie more and Steve's arc, go for it.

 Grimskul wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I'm pretty sure after some thought that he definitely went and lived as a hero from the 40's on in an alternate timeline created by his appearance in the past, and then as an old man he used his suit and remaining Pym particles to return back to where he left, bringing along his trusty shield to give to Falcon.

Then he should have came back via the main time machine, not by the shore where it's heavily implied that he stayed in the same timeline until he got old. Plus, how did he get back then without the machine? It's not like his transponder is linked with any other time machine.

Who knows? Maybe he got the other Stark and/or Banner to aid him? Or even easier- Hank himself?

I'm just saying it seems to be the easiest way to mesh his travelling through the two timelines cleanly, with no mess. There's definitely tons of story that could be told about what happened after he left that pad, with about 47 different good explanations how he is there by the lake.

Sounds like we need a no prize here

If we REALLY need a pointless complex explanation here:

We're following timeline 219743. Cap 219743 went back and created timeline 219744 at the end of which, he gave the shield to Sam 219744. Luckily, Cap 219742 had also gone back, creating timeline 219743 at the end of which he gave the shield to Sam 219743.

 Grimskul wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I'm pretty sure after some thought that he definitely went and lived as a hero from the 40's on in an alternate timeline created by his appearance in the past, and then as an old man he used his suit and remaining Pym particles to return back to where he left, bringing along his trusty shield to give to Falcon.

Then he should have came back via the main time machine, not by the shore where it's heavily implied that he stayed in the same timeline until he got old. Plus, how did he get back then without the machine? It's not like his transponder is linked with any other time machine.

The machine doesn't seem strictly necessary. They jump directly from past New York to Camp Nostalgia without one. (Or, admittedly, a scene could have been cut).

But really, arriving 50' from the arrival pad (which is now portable and significantly miniaturized) for a dramatic reveal isn't that much of a stretch. It's a better story moment and still doesn't break any of the established rules. Given that it allows for interplanetary, dimensional and time travel simultaneously, with different people going to different destinations (and can be jury-rigged as the basis for a gateway that can encompass an entire battleship/carrier of ridiculous size), I'm willing to spot it a dozen or so yards.

 LunarSol wrote:
If we REALLY need a pointless complex explanation here:

We're following timeline 219743. Cap 219743 went back and created timeline 219744 at the end of which, he gave the shield to Sam 219744. Luckily, Cap 219742 had also gone back, creating timeline 219743 at the end of which he gave the shield to Sam 219743.

I think my brain just melted. But in a good way

-

So does anyone else think that the chill Hulk is modelled on that famous American lifecoach guy from Shallow Hal? (Tony Robbins) I couldn't put my finger on it at the time but it just clicked!

Just saw it on Sat. Was about what I expected. The problem with a flick like this is that any suspense thats built with the multiple points of near victory/defeat is immediately dispelled when you realize X/Y/Z character hasnt shown up yet

Visually very impressive, but the story was basically contrived macguffins over and over.

Does anybody remember seeing how Capt. got his shield back after throwing it at past Capt. On the bridge?

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
Does anybody remember seeing how Capt. got his shield back after throwing it at past Capt. On the bridge?

It fell down the tower to about where they landed. So he picked it up.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Just saw it on Sat. Was about what I expected. The problem with a flick like this is that any suspense thats built with the multiple points of near victory/defeat is immediately dispelled when you realize X/Y/Z character hasnt shown up yet

Visually very impressive, but the story was basically contrived macguffins over and over.

Yeah, I saw it yesterday. It was fun, but about what I expected. The Cap arc didn't make strict sense, but I'm not sure that their approach to time travel did anyway. And hey, it's time travel. In an MCU film. I can easily let it go.

But I remain disappointed that the Captain America we got in the MCU was ultimately a man unable to move on from the past. I've been a fan of the comics character since I was a kid, and that character is a man with roots in the past who both reflects on and continually adapts to the present. To be fair though, we're not talking about hundreds of issues of comics, but a few films worth of time. Winter Soldier is still my fave MCU film, and it's mostly a pretty great Cap film. But Civil War was really more of an Iron Man film...the character arc belonged to Tony, not Steve. I could have used another genuine Cap film to develop him more, but that's probably just me. *shrug*

Anyway, back on topic, Endgame felt 20 minutes too long to me. There was tons to do and cover, so it had to be a long one. Still, it was almost a little slow in spots, which is something it shares with the original Avengers film.

I thought it was nice to see Jon Favreau get one of the last 'goodbye' shots at the cabin. RDJ is the #1 reason why the MCU worked, but IMO #2 is probably Favreau, even ahead of Feige. Favreau's Iron Man gave Feige the blueprints -- story, tone, and look -- for the rest of the MCU, and he doesn't get enough credit for that IMO.

Just saw the movie this evening. I thought it was awesome! I'm still digesting it right now so I don't have much as far as specific thoughts, but I can definitely say that they ended this phase of the MCU with a very nice bang.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R47UM8ShioY

I read somewhere an interesting idea that might be practical from a real world standpoint.

Armin Zola was able to preserve his conscious mind, and he was both not as smart as Tony and using WW2 era tech.

So while accepting RDJ is probably done as Iron Man, do we think we might see him in future as an AI voice a la Jarvis/Friday and the occasional hologram?

Seems eminently doable in-Universe and would likely need a much smaller physical and time commitment for the actor.

Alright, no more arguing about if old Cap should have been sitting on that bench. Instead we can argue about why they don’t just repeat their earlier time travel failure on Cap to make him young again.

 AduroT wrote:
Alright, no more arguing about if old Cap should have been sitting on that bench. Instead we can argue about why they don’t just repeat their earlier time travel failure on Cap to make him young again.

Probably because he doesn't want to. He lived a good life.

IIRC Peggy died around the time of Avengers 2, so Steve is returning after living a good life and as a widower, so there's that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AduroT wrote:

Spoiler:

I cry foul. No way Steve had a beard in 1963.


(Also he was iced during the Kennedy administration so the Kennedy assassination means as much to him as the Taft assassination does to me)

I think that's kind of the joke. Steve would know all that stuff works out sort of okay in the end, so while everyone else in panicking he's just going on with life.

If you want to go dark:

Peggy: Oh god the Twin Towers!
Cap: Don't worry. We get them. *drinks a smoothie*

 Azreal13 wrote:
I read somewhere an interesting idea that might be practical from a real world standpoint.

Armin Zola was able to preserve his conscious mind, and he was both not as smart as Tony and using WW2 era tech.

So while accepting RDJ is probably done as Iron Man, do we think we might see him in future as an AI voice a la Jarvis/Friday and the occasional hologram?

Seems eminently doable in-Universe and would likely need a much smaller physical and time commitment for the actor.

I hope not. That doesn't seem rarratively satisfying. The Avengers series (specifically Assemble, Age of Ultron, Infinity War and Endgame, but also the Iron Man and captain America trilogies) are Steve and Tony's stories, and it's good to see them both end. Have someone else take up the disguises, but leave the characters alone, please.

I Did really enjoy snarky AI Tony from the beginning of Riri’s run, but the MCU hasn’t really done much of anything to set up a similar circumstance, and it would require RDJ to keep doing it, and iirc doesn’t he want to be done? Like, they’re aging out, it’s why they’ve gotten be replaced.

 LordofHats wrote:
I think that's kind of the joke. Steve would know all that stuff works out sort of okay in the end, so while everyone else in panicking he's just going on with life.

If you want to go dark:

Peggy: Oh god the Twin Towers!
Cap: Don't worry. We get them. *drinks a smoothie*

There's something deeply uncomfortable about "Captain America" not preventing 9/11

 Gael Knight wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
I think that's kind of the joke. Steve would know all that stuff works out sort of okay in the end, so while everyone else in panicking he's just going on with life.

If you want to go dark:

Peggy: Oh god the Twin Towers!
Cap: Don't worry. We get them. *drinks a smoothie*

There's something deeply uncomfortable about "Captain America" not preventing 9/11

I think around the time that happened they covered it in one of the comics. Cap's guilt about not being able to prevent it or something. I only heard about it though, as I don't read comic books much.

Just got back from watching

Really impressive - lots of lovely character moments and dialogue, writers worked veyr hard on this one. The cast bill must have been pretty astronomical!

Great work in giving so many people short but signifcant moments.

Lots of heart in this film and always good to have that magical contrast between humour and darker scenes / emotion.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 Gael Knight wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
I think that's kind of the joke. Steve would know all that stuff works out sort of okay in the end, so while everyone else in panicking he's just going on with life.

If you want to go dark:

Peggy: Oh god the Twin Towers!
Cap: Don't worry. We get them. *drinks a smoothie*

There's something deeply uncomfortable about "Captain America" not preventing 9/11

I think around the time that happened they covered it in one of the comics. Cap's guilt about not being able to prevent it or something. I only heard about it though, as I don't read comic books much.

Right, most comics pulled a 'everybody was away' bit. (Alongside a fair amount of debate whether or not it would be tasteless to just have superheroes stop it in various comic universes)

But this would be Cap aware it was coming because of time shenanigans (alternate universe or not), and dismissing it with a shrug and a smoothie is *way* out of character, even if he is 'laying low' and somehow successfully hiding from SHIELD while married to someone who'd get a lot scrutiny 24/7. And its one of dozens of incidents where he'd have to actively discard his character and morals to have an anonymous 'happily ever after.'

Voss wrote:
But this would be Cap aware it was coming because of time shenanigans (alternate universe or not), and dismissing it with a shrug and a smoothie is *way* out of character, even if he is 'laying low' and somehow successfully hiding from SHIELD while married to someone who'd get a lot scrutiny 24/7. And its one of dozens of incidents where he'd have to actively discard his character and morals to have an anonymous 'happily ever after.'

I still think that's kind of the joke XD

Of course for all we know on Earth-Steve he started making calls in the 60s and averted the Kennedy Assassination and Vietnam War. So by the time 2001 rolled around the world was so different there was no attack to avert.

Or basically if he messed with history on Earth-Steve there's no chance the Sept 11 attacks would have been on the same day/time if they happened at all. There were lots of things to avert first so that Earth would look very different. Maybe better, maybe not, but certainly different.

Or just spawning off alternate realities.

The Loki TV show might provide answers for how that would work. Of course, it's also possible Steve morally decided that he had no right to alter the course of history. We've all seen the Butterfly Effect, right