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This fortification is sold as a 2'x2' Realm of Battle board from FW.
Just asking my question a couple of different ways:
When measuring to the model for shooting and charging, is the edge of the model the board or the structure on the board?
Is the 2'x2' board the "model" or is it just the bunker on it?
The board isn't considered the models base?
If someone were to somehow cut the bunker off the board and placed it as if it were a conventional fortification, would this run afoul of the rules?

You need to house rule so much to get it to function. Decide with your opponent.

I would personally measure ranges to the edges of the bunker/buildings themselves. The board wouldn't be considered the model's base.

It's a rarely used model so I would 100% recommend just spending 5 mins discussing these questions beforehand with your opponent but no doubt we'll get replies of "hur dur another example of GW's incompetence!!11!!!". 5 mins chatting with your opponent will avoid any complications.

 aka_mythos wrote:
This fortification is sold as a 2'x2' Realm of Battle board from FW.
Just asking my question a couple of different ways:
When measuring to the model for shooting and charging, is the edge of the model the board or the structure on the board?
Is the 2'x2' board the "model" or is it just the bunker on it?
The board isn't considered the models base?
If someone were to somehow cut the bunker off the board and placed it as if it were a conventional fortification, would this run afoul of the rules?

Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective.

The entire 2'x2' model is the actual model. Regardless of whether you count the flat area as a base or not, you measure to the edges of the board.

BRB Page 176 wrote:Distances in Warhammer 40,000 are measured in inches (") between the closest points of the bases of the models you’re measuring to and from. If a model does not have a base, such is the case with many vehicles, measure to and from the closest point of that model’s hull instead. You can measure distances whenever you wish.

You are not actually given permission to move models on top of it, so you technically cannot. Models can, of course, embark upon it as it has a Transport capacity. As for cutting the bunker off the base, that's as "afoul of the rules" as any other modelling for advantage, i.e. not afoul of the rules at all.

No House Rules are "needed" to use the board, it's just that due to sloppy FW writing it's not very practical to use.

BRB Page 176 wrote:Distances in Warhammer 40,000 are measured in inches (") between the closest points of the bases of the models you’re measuring to and from. If a model does not have a base, such is the case with many vehicles, measure to and from the closest point of that model’s hull instead. You can measure distances whenever you wish.

The edges of the board are not Hull.

Basically this:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
You need to house rule so much to get it to function. Decide with your opponent.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

The entire 2'x2' model is the actual model. Regardless of whether you count the flat area as a base or not, you measure to the edges of the board.

BRB Page 176 wrote:Distances in Warhammer 40,000 are measured in inches (") between the closest points of the bases of the models you’re measuring to and from. If a model does not have a base, such is the case with many vehicles, measure to and from the closest point of that model’s hull instead. You can measure distances whenever you wish.

You are not actually given permission to move models on top of it, so you technically cannot. Models can, of course, embark upon it as it has a Transport capacity. As for cutting the bunker off the base, that's as "afoul of the rules" as any other modelling for advantage, i.e. not afoul of the rules at all.

No House Rules are "needed" to use the board, it's just that due to sloppy FW writing it's not very practical to use.

Actually, it does matter if you count the flat area as a base or not. If it's a base you measure to it. If not,as it states in the rules you measure to the edge of what counts as hull. I don't see the entire board being counted as hull; if it is then other models wouldn't be able to walk on the "hull". EDIT: Also, if the board counts as base, then all shooting from the model is measured from the edge of the 2' x 2' square, not from the Redoubt itself.

You measure to the edge of what counts as the bunker...

 DeathReaper wrote:

BRB Page 176 wrote:Distances in Warhammer 40,000 are measured in inches (") between the closest points of the bases of the models you’re measuring to and from. If a model does not have a base, such is the case with many vehicles, measure to and from the closest point of that model’s hull instead. You can measure distances whenever you wish.

The edges of the board are not Hull.

No, it's a base, so you measure to the base.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 doctortom wrote:
Actually, it does matter if you count the flat area as a base or not. If it's a base you measure to it. If not,as it states in the rules you measure to the edge of what counts as hull. I don't see the entire board being counted as hull; if it is then other models wouldn't be able to walk on the "hull". EDIT: Also, if the board counts as base, then all shooting from the model is measured from the edge of the 2' x 2' square, not from the Redoubt itself.

You measure to the edge of what counts as the bunker...

That's a fair point, it doesn't have a hull, and since there is no rulebook definition you have to use the English definition. I concede the point.

The board is a base though, prove me wrong.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

BRB Page 176 wrote:Distances in Warhammer 40,000 are measured in inches (") between the closest points of the bases of the models you’re measuring to and from. If a model does not have a base, such is the case with many vehicles, measure to and from the closest point of that model’s hull instead. You can measure distances whenever you wish.

The edges of the board are not Hull.

No, it's a base, so you measure to the base.

No, it is not a base...

A base and a model are two different things.

The Redoubt is not a base and a model. it is just a model.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

BRB Page 176 wrote:Distances in Warhammer 40,000 are measured in inches (") between the closest points of the bases of the models you’re measuring to and from. If a model does not have a base, such is the case with many vehicles, measure to and from the closest point of that model’s hull instead. You can measure distances whenever you wish.

The edges of the board are not Hull.

No, it's a base, so you measure to the base.

No, it is not a base...

A base and a model are two different things.

The Redoubt is not a base and a model. it is just a model.

If the whole thing is a model, including the board, then you measure to the board because it's a part of the model. If the model is on the board as a base, you measure to the board because it's the base. Sounds to me like you, RAW, measure to the board no matter what.

 Octopoid wrote:
If the whole thing is a model, including the board, then you measure to the board because it's a part of the model. If the model is on the board as a base, you measure to the board because it's the base. Sounds to me like you, RAW, measure to the board no matter what.

You measure ranged to the hull of a model that has no base, but since neither an in-game definition nor the real world definition of hull fits...

BaconCatBug wrote:

 Octopoid wrote:
If the whole thing is a model, including the board, then you measure to the board because it's a part of the model. If the model is on the board as a base, you measure to the board because it's the base. Sounds to me like you, RAW, measure to the board no matter what.

You measure ranged to the hull of a model that has no base, but since neither an in-game definition nor the real world definition of hull fits...

...well, as mentioned earlier...

JohnnyHell wrote:You need to house rule so much to get it to function. Decide with your opponent.

There’s no point in a RAW pissing contest on a model that doesn’t function without discussion with your opppnent.

 Octopoid wrote:
If the whole thing is a model, including the board, then you measure to the board because it's a part of the model. If the model is on the board as a base, you measure to the board because it's the base. Sounds to me like you, RAW, measure to the board no matter what.

Incorrect, because you measure to the Hull of models without a base, not just any part of the model... The flat board is not and will never be considered Hull by anyone.

Oh this topic takes absurdity of certain people to whole new level Where's popcorn!

Its unclear. There is no hull or base for a piece of terrain. Discuss with your opponent pregame. HIWPI, measure to the bunker, not the tile itself.

tneva82 wrote:
Oh this topic takes absurdity of certain people to whole new level Where's popcorn!

It's the single most YMDC thread I've ever seen

RAW, sure, the whole tile is the model.

But since you'll never see it in a competitive game, just have fun with it!

 Cheexsta wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Oh this topic takes absurdity of certain people to whole new level Where's popcorn!

It's the single most YMDC thread I've ever seen

RAW, sure, the whole tile is the model.

But since you'll never see it in a competitive game, just have fun with it!

Nah, the most YMDC threads are the ones that argue over a small semantic ambiguity for double digit page numbers!

This is relatively tame so far.

 BaconCatBug wrote:


The board is a base though, prove me wrong.

From the Forge World website:

"The Realm of Battle Imperial Primus Redoubt consists of a 2' x 2' Realm of Battle tile that features a large bunker complex with multiple battlements and a double-barrelled turbo laser destructor turret. It is a fortification that can be taken by any Faction in Warhammer 40,000 and Horus Heresy games."

They say it's a 2' x 2' Realm of Battle Tile that features a large bunker complex, not a 2' x 2' tile that is[u] a large bunker complex. If you look at Realm of Battle examples on the Games Workshop site, they say they supply 2' x 2' sections that can be assembled into a gaming table, so this would be part of a gaming table barring instructions to treat it otherwise. Since it only features a large bunker and is not described as a 2' x 2' bunker, the bunker must be the feature on the board and not the entire board itself. As Realms of Battle form the gaming table, the specific realm of battle here would not be considered a base since this Realm would be assembled with others to become a gaming table. Without specific instructions, the gaming table is a surface that models are placed on and moved around during the game. As you conceeded the point that the 2' x 2' square would not allow movement onto it if the entire square is a base, then this piece would not be a Realm of Battle as described but would be a 2' x 2' bunker if the board was a base. As it's never described that way it's not a base.

Proof enough?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
Oh this topic takes absurdity of certain people to whole new level Where's popcorn!

We need a popcorn bag emoji.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stux wrote:

 Cheexsta wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Oh this topic takes absurdity of certain people to whole new level Where's popcorn!

It's the single most YMDC thread I've ever seen

RAW, sure, the whole tile is the model.

But since you'll never see it in a competitive game, just have fun with it!

Nah, the most YMDC threads are the ones that argue over a small semantic ambiguity for double digit page numbers!

This is relatively tame so far.

I've been in threads where the word "a" had to be defined for someone. That might be the most YMDC thread.