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I’m not sure they do. Are the trebuchet the only other artillery we’ve seen? Until the recent resurgence of dragons they apparently didn’t feel the need for larger weapons.

 AduroT wrote:
I’m not sure they do. Are the trebuchet the only other artillery we’ve seen? Until the recent resurgence of dragons they apparently didn’t feel the need for larger weapons.

They have castles it would be odd not to have artillery. Essos ships had them.

Thoughts:

It was a million times better than last weeks gak fest.
Ballista are plot accurate same as Night Kings spear and apparently not only do they have near infiniate range but the Kraken has blessed the Iron born with stealth ships.
Really annoyed killed another Dragon.
I liked the whole starting to fall apart of the alliance was portrayed - well done Bran and Sam - hope you are happy. Hopefully Bran will now Feth off completly.
Sansa acting as a potential queen and planning for it - seriously the only reason Jon would rule well is if he was the puppet of his advisors.
Yeah her solomn oath to her brother lasted what - an hour.
Varys is pragmatic - fair enough - why the feth is he not bothering to spy on anyone anymore. Its sad that he will now suddenly become super effective if he acts against Dany - he was very accurate on once a few people know - everyone knows
Apparently people (in universe and out) think Dany is unstable now - for no obvious reason, guess its the whole women rulers must be unstable especially if shock horror they might use violence - whereas of coruse a male rukler would be "strong". Expected a bit more of modern viewers than the medieval style people of Westros
She has been remarkably restrained about not burning Kings Landing before - if she had done it when she first arrrived - all would now be well. As usual being humanitarian backfires on her - as it usually did in the books, like saving the witch from beign raped etc.

 AduroT wrote:
I’m not sure they do. Are the trebuchet the only other artillery we’ve seen? Until the recent resurgence of dragons they apparently didn’t feel the need for larger weapons.

Except ballistae are always useful. They used quite a bit of artillery on the field irl, and not always in sieges iirc.
Warfare in Westeros is supposed to be based on medieval warfare, so its odd they wouldn't use field artillery pieces like that.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
I’m not sure they do. Are the trebuchet the only other artillery we’ve seen? Until the recent resurgence of dragons they apparently didn’t feel the need for larger weapons.

Except ballistae are always useful. They used quite a bit of artillery on the field irl, and not always in sieges.

Indeed they did - they are (like early cannon) a bit of mixed blessing being hard work to transport but they can be very effective. If the Gold Company (and presumably others) is famed for their elephants then thats another reason to have them. The Romans had reasonable mobile light balistae and repeating versions as did (IIRC) the Chinese.

The range, accuracy and speed of re-loading does make the large ones on the show look like super magical versions however.

Not sure how often they used them in the field in Medeival period however - armies did tend to meet and fight in quite proscribed ways.

Apparently they weren't as common as during the Roman era as the medieval kingdoms didn't quite have the resources or tech to build them like the romans did, but when they were deployed they were quite dangerous.

But yeah, the reload times for those anti-air ballistae are way too short. Even the crossbow had an absurdly short reload time; Jaime should have been able to deck Bron during his reload.

The GoT directors obviously are not putting much thought into siege equipment in the setting.

Logically, ballista would have existed in the setting for a long time. But clearly they don’t, otherwise the Targarian dragons wouldn’t have been so devastating since we are being shown that ballista are super effective against dragons.

It’s a logical self contradiction.

 Grey Templar wrote:
The GoT directors obviously are not putting much thought into siege equipment in the setting.

Logically, ballista would have existed in the setting for a long time. But clearly they don’t, otherwise the Targarian dragons wouldn’t have been so devastating since we are being shown that ballista are super effective against dragons.

It’s a logical self contradiction.

Spoiler from the Fire and Blood Prequel Book:



Other than the Bull Bofors Ballistae, my main gripe is that this is the third time that they've used "Surprise Iron Fleet" as a plot device to deliver Danaerys a setback. It shows a severe lack oof imagination, especially given that they could easlily have last episode, which would have alleviated my major gripe with that one.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I actually don't mind the dragon getting intercepted.
It was clearly by surprise and the dragon wasn't going that fast or engaging in evasive maneuvers, so its plausible that the ballistae operators had enough time to lead the shot and take aim.

Danny not going in and torching them is also plausible, as they had a lot of ballistae, which means that there's a chance that one of them could hit. It was a fair calculation.

What is odd though is how none of her ships had ballistae. I'm not talking about the fancy dragon killing ones that were invented by Qyburn, I'm talking bog standard variants, and I'm pretty sure those exist.

They seemed to be at anchor at that point, and the Ironfleet we're reloading their ballistae as fast as a bolt action so I'm not sure if would have mattered what the Dany ships had.

Hot garbage of an episode IMO. I appreciated the atmosphere and character moments of episode 3 even if it had some holes.
Episode 4 was just daft.
Bronn's appearance and disappearance felt like a complete afterthought. I literally won't be surprised if he suddenly reappears and shoots one of them out of nowhere as they seem to be grasping at shocking straws now.
They've swung the power balance way back in the other direction, with three bolts taking down a dragon and every flat surface in King's Landing having a ballista.
They fished the only relevant character out of the water? Have we even seen her interact with Dany in the last two episodes? Missandei and Greyworm have felt like they were in a different show since season started anyway, with virtually no interaction with other characters at all.
They could have used that sequence to show that Dany cares about ALL her subjects, not just her closest advisors. I expected the northern characters to go "Who?" when they were told that Missandei had been captured.
Eamon is just the worst character. He's what I imagine would happen if a bored billionaire paid to have a part in a TV show.

Ugh.

Anyway. They are visibly straining against the number of episodes they have remaining. It's a shame but at the same time, oh god I need this show to end.

You don't really need it to unless you have some sort of weird compulsion to do things you don't like to do. Quit watching. You aren't going to ruin the water cooler moment (those aren't even a thing anymore) or let yourself down. It's fine if you don't comment on the newest thing, that's okay. Other people will, so they got you covered. They will be just as,salty as you could be. Unless of course, your salt is the most important salt, then that salt needs to be aired.

Real men see garbage to the end. This show has been awful since at least season 5 but I will watch it to the end and point out the absurdities in its writing all along the way. In Stannis' memory.

I've enjoyed 90% of it. In different ways, of course.
I think the gaps between seasons is what has me looking forward to _some_ kind of resolution. Even if it's a freeze frame of Varys and Tyrion about to throw haymakers at each other in a ring.

 Grey Templar wrote:
The GoT directors obviously are not putting much thought into siege equipment in the setting.

Logically, ballista would have existed in the setting for a long time. But clearly they don’t, otherwise the Targarian dragons wouldn’t have been so devastating since we are being shown that ballista are super effective against dragons.

It’s a logical self contradiction.

To be fair, it might not be a question of penetration, but a question of accuracy. The ballistae back then might not have been capable of quick rotation and vertical aim, making hitting a dragon very unlikely. With the newer types you can aim much more easily.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Real men see garbage to the end. This show has been awful since at least season 5 but I will watch it to the end and point out the absurdities in its writing all along the way. In Stannis' memory.

"Real men" (and women) do what they what when they want. If you want to watch a show that's makes you angry and then report your anger to the internet, good on you., you real man you. It just seems a bit ...why?

Why, because its the manly thing to do of course.

Stannis is second-note, that's why he was a god among men. Second brothers always are.

please, tell me what in the show said anything more about stannis than "I'm a second son and I follow goofy crap because the goofy crap worked for me once". I really don't get the stannis love, is it like an internet meme or 4chan thing?

Faaaaaaaaake. You can tell because they got her name and titles correct.

The conflict between Jon and Daenerys is stupid, even by season 8 standards. It's like everyone in the world has forgot how feudalism works

Yeah, and marrying your aunt wasn't frowned upon in the middle ages. Marrying your mother, father, brother or sister was a no-no, but uncles, aunts and cousins was fair game, iirc. That's how politics worked back then.
They're making a big deal over nothing.
To quote a certain abriged series - "just feth already"

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, and marrying your aunt wasn't frowned upon in the middle ages. Marrying your mother, father, brother or sister was a no-no, but uncles, aunts and cousins was fair game, iirc. That's how politics worked back then.
They're making a big deal over nothing.
To quote a certain abriged series - "just feth already"

Actually no - thats not right - there were complicated rules about even which cousins you could marry - and marrying your brothers wife was incest if the marriage had been consumated.

You could get dispensation from the Pope but you had to ask - its not clear how this works in Westros given that the ruling family has marreid within their own family for milienia and the equivalent of the Vatican and the Pope was blown up by the Queen.

Obviously if it had been Jon there and someone he deeply cared for he would have charged the walls then and there - see his stupdiity in losing the Battle of the Bastards.

So all the Alliance needs to do now is bring the siege engines down, smash the wall mounted Battlistae from range and watch the city burn - Cersei has decalred absolute war and any medievil style population will now expect the Queen (or king) to act in that way.

You offer the city a chance to surrender (done) and then all bets are off, controlling the soldiers once they enter the city would in any case be impossible.

In reality

Sadly they will have some more crappy moralising about can they burn the city and likely get most of the army killed (likely Dany and her dragon killed so they cab join Drogo as in her vision)
Aryra will kill Cersei
Then Jon the Stupid, first of his name can rule the ruins manipulated by Varys and Sansa until he stomps off North in a sulk and the civil war begins again.

Should be some fun images to come.

 Mr Morden wrote:
and marrying your brothers wife was incest if the marriage had been consumated.

Huh, interesting. That was brought up in Hamlet, I believe. It seems they still followed the same sort of rules in the Tudor period then.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
and marrying your brothers wife was incest if the marriage had been consumated.

Huh, interesting. That was brought up in Hamlet, I believe. It seems they still followed the same sort of rules in the Tudor period then.

Famously Henry VIII married his brothers wife and decades later claimed that he had to divorce her as her first marriage had been consumated and hence was incest - she denyed it. One of the charges against her successor Anne Boylen was that she had comitted incest with her brother.

Incest has always been a cultural taboo due to the problems its causes - inbreeding is not good for the gene pool.

If Bran and Sam had kept their stupid fat mouths shut it would not be an issue as no one whould have known, the alliance would still be strong but the show seems to want that "bittersweet" ending - oh except fro Sam the authors avatar of course.

So Bran seemed to know the future and set up the Night King’s death by giving the dagger Arya used to kill him to her and such. Is it feasible he’s got some sort of three dimension chess match going with the iron throne now? Making sure Jon knows his parentage because he knows how that information will effect the future?

 AduroT wrote:
So Bran seemed to know the future and set up the Night King’s death by giving the dagger Arya used to kill him to her and such. Is it feasible he’s got some sort of three dimension chess match going with the iron throne now? Making sure Jon knows his parentage because he knows how that information will effect the future?

He claimed he could not see the future only the past......

 Mr Morden wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
So Bran seemed to know the future and set up the Night King’s death by giving the dagger Arya used to kill him to her and such. Is it feasible he’s got some sort of three dimension chess match going with the iron throne now? Making sure Jon knows his parentage because he knows how that information will effect the future?

He claimed he could not see the future only the past......

If he tells you how it ends, it doesn’t happen.

It's just wish listing to say Bran can see the future. Hey, Lord Commander Mormont of the Nights Watch could see the future. He gave Jon Long Claw and it's only because of Long Claw that they found out that White Walkers could die.

We have express information that Bran can only see the past and the present. We have never seen a single vision of him looking at the future. Nobody has speculated or claimed that he could see the future in the show. He can't see the future.

Marrying your aunt is no problem for medieval society, I do it in CK2 all the time.

Also, the worst part about this episode was Jon not even saying one or two words to Ghost. Like. I know you don't want the warg anymore but at least give it some emotional impact.

You fething stump incapable of showing any human emotion.
Really, that has to be one of the most infuriating things I have seen this series do in this last two seasons.

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
Other than the Bull Bofors Ballistae, my main gripe is that this is the third time that they've used "Surprise Iron Fleet" as a plot device to deliver Danaerys a setback. It shows a severe lack oof imagination, especially given that they could easlily have

Spoiler:

killed Rhaegon

last episode, which would have alleviated my major gripe with that one.

Agreed that it's pointless to have that character live, only to bump it off in a 'gotcha' moment the next episode. But like I said, it's painfully obvious that the showrunners are focused like a laser on creating big Moments. In between, they just handwave their way through. Moving that death gave them another Moment for that ep, whereas it would have been lost in the shuffle in the previous one. The silly parley and execution in front of the walls is another Moment example.

Maybe it's not completely the writers' fault. Maybe HBO pounded their fists on the table and demanded a Red Wedding in every episode. Seems like there are a lot of casual fans who think the show is 'about' OMG deaths and Moments. HBO probably had nothing to do with it, but they probably like 'winning' nights on social media.

I just wish I knew what happened to the good storytelling from the early seasons. They had GRRM's source material, but having a good book doesn't mean you get a great screenplay. Those guys did a pretty *awesome* job bringing ASOIAF to TV. So WTF happened? I recently pondered if GRRM was ghostwriting the scripts for those two. Which is a silly thought, but the dropoff is extreme enough to make it barely plausible.

 plastictrees wrote:
Hot garbage of an episode IMO. I appreciated the atmosphere and character moments of episode 3 even if it had some holes.
Episode 4 was just daft.
Bronn's appearance and disappearance felt like a complete afterthought. I literally won't be surprised if he suddenly reappears and shoots one of them out of nowhere as they seem to be grasping at shocking straws now.
They've swung the power balance way back in the other direction, with three bolts taking down a dragon and every flat surface in King's Landing having a ballista.
They fished the only relevant character out of the water? Have we even seen her interact with Dany in the last two episodes? Missandei and Greyworm have felt like they were in a different show since season started anyway, with virtually no interaction with other characters at all.
They could have used that sequence to show that Dany cares about ALL her subjects, not just her closest advisors. I expected the northern characters to go "Who?" when they were told that Missandei had been captured.

Either Bronn will never been seen again, or he'll popup, kill someone important, give a Muttley laugh and disappear. It's a coin flip.

Eamon is just the worst character. He's what I imagine would happen if a bored billionaire paid to have a part in a TV show.

I LOLed at this. Change Euron's name to 'Pirate Man', and he'd fit right into a Joel Schumacher Batman film. Forget about him being the hand of the writers whenever they need something to happen out of the blue -- the tone and characterization are enough to make him completely baffling. And the writers apparently think he should be a major player down the stretch of this show. Wow.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galas wrote:
Also, the worst part about this episode was Jon not even saying one or two words to Ghost. Like. I know you don't want the warg anymore but at least give it some emotional impact.

You fething stump incapable of showing any human emotion.
Really, that has to be one of the most infuriating things I have seen this series do in this last two seasons.

I don't think this is a big deal, but it is a great example of how the writers don't seem to understand the characters that they've supposedly been writing for the past 9years.

Really, this is all GRRM's fault, for not being able to finish a book in 8+ years.

I mean, I'm not sure I want him to after the last 2 books. My enjoyment of this world pretty much ends in 2 weeks.