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Instead of what we got with the "we need a big shock" killing of Rhaegol in Ep4 they could have had him killed during the King's Landing attack. If You're going to have her go full Mad Queen like that having his death immediately precede it would at least help with how it was received by the audience.

 Eldarain wrote:
Instead of what we got with the "we need a big shock" killing of Rhaegol in Ep4 they could have had him killed during the King's Landing attack. If You're going to have her go full Mad Queen like that having his death immediately precede it would at least help with how it was received by the audience.

Yeah that would have worked.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Instead of what we got with the "we need a big shock" killing of Rhaegol in Ep4 they could have had him killed during the King's Landing attack. If You're going to have her go full Mad Queen like that having his death immediately precede it would at least help with how it was received by the audience.

Yeah that would have worked.

I think it's more the audience being dumb in general. I think people want to write a lot of stuff as bad writing because they aren't considering context.

Examples;

-Mad Queen Dany has been in the works for a long, long time. She's been held back by listening to cooler heads but she's always solved her problems with violence and that crazy has been lurking for 8 seasons....
-The death of Rhaegol. First, killing it during the attack takes away the fact that the reason Cerci feels like she has the upper hand is that she's already killed a dragon. Dany has dick all for an army left and she's got the golden company and the lannister armies and walls. One dragon seems worth the risk especially once you've killed one. Second, I was annoyed with the "boat" ambush but after looking at it outside of the accuracy of the fire Dany wouldn't be able to pick up that they'd installed balista on the boats from where she was flying. So even if she did see them she might not have thought there was danger. So I'm over people bitching about it outside of hating Euron. That's legit.
-Northmen going crazy during a sack is historically accurate. Especially if they've had to fight there way in and the defenders refused a pre-assault surrender.

I haven't actually had an issue with anything that's happened this season outside of the abrupt ending of the white walkers and not even a mention from Bran that it's all over.

Rhaegol was also clearly still messed up from Winterfell. And provided a relatively slow moving target when hit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for the Northmen going all mental?

Lannister Troops terrorised The North during Joffrey’s rein. Looting, raping, murdering, burning down farms etc. That’s plenty motivation for taking it out on King’s Landing.

He was flying the same speed as Drogon who was right next to him.

I don’t have an issue with the troops resorting to general looting and pillaging once it started. I have an issue with how Dany snapped.

So has anyone else seen the final episode "leaks"?

They are a medieval army taking a city, no more needs to be said.

I just realised Game of thrones isn't subverting old formulae it's rushing through one the oldest in the books: The Shakespear style Tragedy. They always have a high just before the final act where everything falls to pieces and the characters succumb to their oldest flaws.

 infinite_array wrote:
So has anyone else seen the final episode "leaks"?

I wish I hadn't. Most of the leaks that I read prior to this seasons release were an improvement from what we got. What I read just a few hours ago is pretty terrible, so I'm going to assume they are true. Shame.

My only question with Rhaegol being sniped out of the sky, why wasn't Jon riding him???


...ok, I understand from a script plot perspective, but if reality, wouldn't he have chose to ride him?

What a poor episode. Can't say anything that hasn't already been said before, but for a final season that started reasonably strong, I can't believe how crappy the past two episodes have been.

Sigh!

Yeah, I too found that episode to be boring and unsatisfying. Even the battle felt dull. There was no drama, no tension, nothing.
Danny's tyrant moment felt undeveloped and rushed. Her "the people fear me" line was stupid.
I mean, you are a foreigner with dragons, a barbarian horde and you set people on fire, what did you fething expect? You'd think that someone who has ruled for something like a decade with get the idea, but apparently she's still stuck on rulership 101.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Rhaegol was also clearly still messed up from Winterfell. And provided a relatively slow moving target when hit.

So then why would Danny fly him so close to the enemy fortress. That is stupid. The writers are clearly running out ideas and are just rushing through.
Rhaegal should have died during the battle, ideally after the enemy surrendered. That would have provided much better "justification" for Danny going full Nero.

 Grey Templar wrote:
He was flying the same speed as Drogon who was right next to him.

I don’t have an issue with the troops resorting to general looting and pillaging once it started. I have an issue with how Dany snapped.

I just don't understand this. I really don't. She's been headed this way since she burned the lady that put Drogo in a permanent coma. Outside of her freed slaves she's always been pretty draconian (get it) toward those who stand up to her or resist her. Also by pretty much every metric she's within her rights once the original surrender is refused to make an example. Those people in town had the ability to rebel if they didn't want Cersei. Instead they flowed to her. I just can't get onboard with the idea that Dany "snapped".

 Hulksmash wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
He was flying the same speed as Drogon who was right next to him.

I don’t have an issue with the troops resorting to general looting and pillaging once it started. I have an issue with how Dany snapped.

. Those people in town had the ability to rebel if they didn't want Cersei. Instead they flowed to her. I just can't get onboard with the idea that Dany "snapped".

Its almost as if the civilians were more afraid of Danny than Cersei, and Danny proved their fears right..
The defenders surrendered to her and were no longer willing to fight, and if she really wanted Cersei dead Danny could have made a bee-line to the Red Keep and be done with it instead of wasting her time burning civilians.
I agree with the notion that Danny had a bit of a harsh streak, but she did have some idea of restraint, and her entire shtick is that she isn't her father.

She's been kinda narcissistic from day one, plus showed no emotion when her brother was killed in front of her. Now don't get me wrong, he had it coming. But regardless of anything my siblings have done it would still hurt to see them die like that. Not sure how people are surprised at her turning like this. All of the people that had been keeping her in check have been dwindling off.

And now all the non-weebs can experience what it's like for the anime to overtake the manga.

Maybe in 2063 when whoever takes over G.R.R after he dies finishes the final book we can be happy. But considering how Wheel of Time went... (which is weird because Sandersons Comsere-verse was excellent).

 BaconCatBug wrote:
And now all the non-weebs can experience what it's like for the anime to overtake the manga.

That is...disturbingly accurate.
And now I have memories of the anime ending of Akame ga Kill. That is not good.

Oh, and another thing -
Remember how in the first season they made the point of showing how ineffective dothraki armor was against armor? Well apparently they were given power weapons, as they just ignored Lannister armor. So much for continuity.

 Hulksmash wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Instead of what we got with the "we need a big shock" killing of Rhaegol in Ep4 they could have had him killed during the King's Landing attack. If You're going to have her go full Mad Queen like that having his death immediately precede it would at least help with how it was received by the audience.

Yeah that would have worked.

I think it's more the audience being dumb in general. I think people want to write a lot of stuff as bad writing because they aren't considering context.

Examples;

-Mad Queen Dany has been in the works for a long, long time. She's been held back by listening to cooler heads but she's always solved her problems with violence and that crazy has been lurking for 8 seasons....
-The death of Rhaegol. First, killing it during the attack takes away the fact that the reason Cerci feels like she has the upper hand is that she's already killed a dragon. Dany has dick all for an army left and she's got the golden company and the lannister armies and walls. One dragon seems worth the risk especially once you've killed one. Second, I was annoyed with the "boat" ambush but after looking at it outside of the accuracy of the fire Dany wouldn't be able to pick up that they'd installed balista on the boats from where she was flying. So even if she did see them she might not have thought there was danger. So I'm over people bitching about it outside of hating Euron. That's legit.
-Northmen going crazy during a sack is historically accurate. Especially if they've had to fight there way in and the defenders refused a pre-assault surrender.

I haven't actually had an issue with anything that's happened this season outside of the abrupt ending of the white walkers and not even a mention from Bran that it's all over.

Yeah, we all are too dumb to understand whats happening. The magnificent writting of D&D fly over our heads like all those ballista bolts with Drogon and Daenerys.
All this "She was always crazy!" nonsense is that, just pure nonsense. Daenerys was an human. She had shadows and lights. But she was painted always with a honest true heart and sincere behaviour. This turn of the wheell was horribly handled. Too rushed.

Also... lets take a minute of silence for one of the worst victims of this episode:

I think the Dany goes mad has been crowbarred into this season - badly.

Yeah she can be a bit harsh but thats rulers in the (fantasy) medievil world - but if thats the way they are going - personally happy now for her to go full on dark queen and end it in that way.

To coin a phrase , let her be "beautiful and terrible as the morning and the night, Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth."

Burn all her stand against her.

Or we could have Jon and co whining and moralising for the last episode until they kill her and make the world a smaller, duller place for for them

Honestly don't get the tears about the ballistas. She divebombed the fleet and was moving rapidly. They blew their load on the first pass. Euron orders them to turn but she's able to out manoeuvre them. They would have been panicked after the first ships got demolished.The men on the walls have never fired them at a dragon before and don't have the angles.

 Gael Knight wrote:
Honestly don't get the tears about the ballistas. She divebombed the fleet and was moving rapidly. They blew their load on the first pass. Euron orders them to turn but she's able to out manoeuvre them. They would have been panicked after the first ships got demolished.The men on the walls have never fired them at a dragon before and don't have the angles.

Its because they were deadily accurate at a stupid range when first shown as well as having incredable ability to rapid reload - then the opposite.

The men in the ships on Eurons stealth/teleporting ships had never fired at a dragon either but hit first time with three shots.

 Gael Knight wrote:
Honestly don't get the tears about the ballistas. She divebombed the fleet and was moving rapidly. They blew their load on the first pass. Euron orders them to turn but she's able to out manoeuvre them. They would have been panicked after the first ships got demolished.The men on the walls have never fired them at a dragon before and don't have the angles.

The problem is that in the previous episode they were extremely accurate, reloaded fairly quickly and swiveled a lot faster.
Its as if they forgot to add lube to the scorpions or something. Its inconsistent.
It would have been neater if Cersei found out what happened during the first scorpion deployment, and had Qyburn come up with another solution. Like, I don't know, nets or chains or something that can hamper dragon mobility.

Also, RIP Qyburn. I liked him


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galas wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Instead of what we got with the "we need a big shock" killing of Rhaegol in Ep4 they could have had him killed during the King's Landing attack. If You're going to have her go full Mad Queen like that having his death immediately precede it would at least help with how it was received by the audience.

Yeah that would have worked.

I think it's more the audience being dumb in general. I think people want to write a lot of stuff as bad writing because they aren't considering context.

Examples;

-Mad Queen Dany has been in the works for a long, long time. She's been held back by listening to cooler heads but she's always solved her problems with violence and that crazy has been lurking for 8 seasons....
-The death of Rhaegol. First, killing it during the attack takes away the fact that the reason Cerci feels like she has the upper hand is that she's already killed a dragon. Dany has dick all for an army left and she's got the golden company and the lannister armies and walls. One dragon seems worth the risk especially once you've killed one. Second, I was annoyed with the "boat" ambush but after looking at it outside of the accuracy of the fire Dany wouldn't be able to pick up that they'd installed balista on the boats from where she was flying. So even if she did see them she might not have thought there was danger. So I'm over people bitching about it outside of hating Euron. That's legit.
-Northmen going crazy during a sack is historically accurate. Especially if they've had to fight there way in and the defenders refused a pre-assault surrender.

I haven't actually had an issue with anything that's happened this season outside of the abrupt ending of the white walkers and not even a mention from Bran that it's all over.

Yeah, we all are too dumb to understand whats happening. The magnificent writting of D&D fly over our heads like all those ballista bolts with Drogon and Daenerys.
All this "She was always crazy!" nonsense is that, just pure nonsense. Daenerys was an human. She had shadows and lights. But she was painted always with a honest true heart and sincere behaviour. This turn of the wheell was horribly handled. Too rushed.

Also... lets take a minute of silence for one of the worst victims of this episode:

Spoiler:

Yeah, the Golden Company got shafted hard. That battle was boring. The episode was boring. The only satisfying conclusion was Sandor's Arc, because it ended how it should have, and he got was he was ultimately looking for in the end.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha

Tell me more about the logical, machiavellian decision to make so many people hate you that your death carries basically zero consequences for the person who murdered you because no one in the realm is bothered by your demise.

This was...



Horrible. In every single way.

I couldn't have been more boring. At least the last couple episodes had good direction, even if the script was crap.

But this? Pfff.

At least we got the memes.

I loved how the first 30 minutes were Tyrion trying to explain HOW it was so CLEAR daenerys was gonna got MAD from the beginning, we just weren't smart enough.

Followed by 40 minutes of EXTREMELY MUNDANE politics is the best ending we could have hoped for.

Honestly I rather liked it. Better than the other crap from the previous three episodes.

I am going to love watching the internet for the next couple days.

I look forward to the books rationalising that conclusion.

I liked it. Even if Jon doesnt deserve Ghost. Also I'm going to assume jon has just said f the kingdoms and is staying in the true north where he is appreciated and loved.

Also the "Adventures of Arya" spin off coming.

Just finished it. Overall, it was a decent ending.

The writing was a bit spotty, there was some stupid contrived macguffins and poorly wrapped up things, the last two seasons were way too short for what they tried, and the second to last episodes of both of the last two seasons were particularly awkward and poorly written, but overall, it was ok.

Not quite as good as I'd hoped, way better than I feared, ultimately it'll do.

They didn't go Lost/Battlestar Galactica/Dexter/Mass Effect 3 on it, and that's about all I wanted.

Now I'm waiting for the Arya spinoff.

I think it wrapped things up about as good as could be expected, given the amount of time they had to work with. I think it might have been better if they'd stretched this season to 10 episodes, but overall I'm satisfied with this TV adaptation of a book series I've been a fan of since the late 90s/early 2000s.