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 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Hanskrampf wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
What is the go-to place to get WA in the EU now?

Lots of German stores carry their range.
To name two:
https://www.fantasywelt.de/Wargames-Atlantic
https://www.miniaturicum.de/Wargames-Atlantic

Thanks! Every time I see German prices I am reminded that there's nothing unique about GW's faux exchange rate.

Spanish have a more interesting exchange rate than germans:
https://banduawargames.com/en/2724-wargames-atlantic
It has been a long time since USD and Euros were 1:1

Grognard command/heavy weapons and eisenkern have reached our fulfillment warehouse and preorders are being prepped for shipment

Spoiler:

large zoomable version here https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0078/4764/1186/files/All_Conquistador_Parts-ok.jpg?v=1611929907


The parts are back from file prep and with the exception of one body that isn't shown here this is everything:

Now there is a good chance (100% chance actually!) that not all of this will fit on a full frame (especially when this is unique parts and not the total part count). We'll most likely pair back some of this to allow it to fit.

Sorry but we will NOT be having open hands for pikes as they just don't look very good and we want to provide a complete product (not require you to buy separate rods to make pikes).

Let us know what you think below and we will be working on a layout for tooling next. Aztecs are in sculpting.

Yeah that looks fantastic. For me it's basically a heavy specialist box for Ghost Archipelago. Hoping crossbows and muskets both survive the sprue space cull.

i'd certainly like both even if it means fewer of each.

I like the drum but feel it's probably one to cut as having multiples is not much use

There is a poll about weapon choices up on the facebook group - wargames atlantic legion.

As the membership of the group grows wargames atlantic have run a randomized freebie every thousand members or so.

Hopefully they drop the marching Pike poses. Super boring.

 Gallahad wrote:
Hopefully they drop the marching Pike poses. Super boring.

I agree.

....

Unless...


Hmm...


Perhaps if I glue it at the right angle...

But where would I find enough Three Stooges heads?

I'm somewhat torn, because it kinda depends on if you're buying a lot to build an army, or buying one box to make a skirmish warband for something. Being able to make a whole army of them with pikes would be pretty sweet. But being able to make a warband of individuals all armed differently would also be cool, but marching pike arms would be pretty useless there.

Being that the conquistadores were veterans of the famed Spanish tercios, you'd expect about a third of them to be pike-armed, if in a large formation. A single pikeman on his own is easy prey for anyone with a weapon better suited for close work. I'd expect more sword & buckler men myself, since that was the part of the tercios that broke the feared pike blocks of 16th century European warfare. Also, it is a more practical weapon mix for exploring an unknown land looking for cities of gold.

Wargames Atlantic is likely trying to keep this a general-purpose kit, so both skirmish and mass battles are covered. However, like others in this thread, I'm interested in the skirmish side, not mass battles. {And if I wanted to fight big 16th century land battles, 15mm or smaller would be superior, because you'll need MASS.}

Either way, I don't think you need to be able to make every model with any one option, so they can have space for more variety by not trying to do that.

Leveled pike is a useless pose for miniatures. Pikemen operate in huge blocks, you can only move the figures when the pike is being held in an upright position. Try placing your regiment in base contact with the enemy if they have 2 inches of pike protruding in front of them...
You could use this for skirmish games, but pikes are complete nonsense for one on one combat. They only work en masse.
Diorama: leveled
Wargaming: upright
Best: both options to please everybody

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Either way, I don't think you need to be able to make every model with any one option, so they can have space for more variety by not trying to do that.

*Nod* Agreed. Although some other manufacturers of historicals do something like that. Hand weapons for all figures in the kit, but only half can be crossbow armed. Fireforge and the Perry Brothers do this. Different target market though.

I've found the leveled pikes to be a non-issue in rank and flank games in 28mm since you can just agree that your miniatures are in contact without the bases physically touching.

They also have the bonus of looking good for skirmish games.

And I'm no expert, but these look more like spears anyways, which are certainly useful for skirmish games.


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I feel like by attempting to be ok for everything they will end up not being good for any purpose of they try to fit all those weapon options on there.

Do a close combat box, and if it sells well, follow up with a ranged box.

Is not the point of a pike to stop enemy units from making contact with your unit. Unless they're other pikemen.

Don't get the fuss here anyways.
WA is doing eveything right. Those pikes are very short, almost like spears. By having leveled and upwards pikes, you can create a nice block of pikemen.
For those who dislike the upright pike and don't know about historical combat: those blocks were quite deep and about half the ranks in the back held their pike straight up, even when fighting. It is not a marching pose. Historians still argue if it was to deflect arrows (doesn't work on bullets) or to not waste space.

All good with this set and while seperate set's would be nice, I don't think WA can financially do such a thing right now. Its cheaper to have all in one content.

 Garfield666 wrote:
Don't get the fuss here anyways.
WA is doing eveything right. Those pikes are very short, almost like spears. By having leveled and upwards pikes, you can create a nice block of pikemen.
For those who dislike the upright pike and don't know about historical combat: those blocks were quite deep and about half the ranks in the back held their pike straight up, even when fighting. It is not a marching pose. Historians still argue if it was to deflect arrows (doesn't work on bullets) or to not waste space.

Seems like the easiest way to hold an enormous stick without bonking your buddies on the head when you probably can't quite properly see who to stab with it anyway. Plus it'd make it easier to turn around and flop the pike down towards any nasty surprise.

The other thing to bear in mind with a pike is that it's very heavy and unwieldy. Straight up is pretty easy to carry. Any deviation from vertical, though, and it's hard to control where it goes, and just hard work to do anything. Actual weight might not be all that much but even on one of the shorter pikes, 3-4m long, most of that weight is very far away from both your hands.

I'm no expert but I'm guessing there wasn't a lot of pike action going on in mesoamerican jungles.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'm no expert but I'm guessing there wasn't a lot of pike action going on in mesoamerican jungles.

They're probably handy for making tents and bridges, though.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'm no expert but I'm guessing there wasn't a lot of pike action going on in mesoamerican jungles.

You know is a mistake to think that all of center and south America is like brasil.

 Galas wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'm no expert but I'm guessing there wasn't a lot of pike action going on in mesoamerican jungles.

You know is a mistake to think that all of center and south America is like brasil.

Indeed, the pike was less frequently used than in Europe but it was most certainly present, albeit used differently: while in Europe pikemen units almost always used very close formations to create units very resistant against cavalry, that was not an issue in America, so they were mostly relegated to using when conquering the aztec pyramids and against Pánfílo de Narváez's cuban troops when he was marked as traitor.

They didn't use many guns either, or even horses (Cortes only had 13 handgunners and 16 cavalrymen, for example).


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Rosebuddy wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'm no expert but I'm guessing there wasn't a lot of pike action going on in mesoamerican jungles.

They're probably handy for making tents and bridges, though.

I... would't really think so.

As to the actual sprue... well, I'd say I certainly see way too many arquebuses, not even one arquebus support (so they can't even use them, at least properly), seems like an adequate amount of crossbows, too many pikes, particularly in comparison with the number of halberds and entirely too few swords and shields. At the absolute least, half of the minis should be able to be assembled as rodeleros, because that's the single most usual equipment.

As a general thing, more like this



And less like this, even though he's got the morrion (which in itself was not that usual) and it actuall has the support:

So what you’re saying is they didn’t hold their pikes straight up in the Americas?

Honestly they should really just make a mini sprue for the ranged weapon + zweihander options.

I really do think they risk ending up with 1-2 pike, a single sword and shield combo, 1-2 halberds, and 2-3 ranged weapons. It would be a box that wouldn't fit any purpose well.

They may also consider poses with swappable pike and halberd heads.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
So what you’re saying is they didn’t hold their pikes straight up in the Americas?

They were used much more ad hoc, as a general thing, and when you couldn't use a regular spear, sword or ranged weapon. Simply put, a lot were more small scale actions than anything else. Plus, they were a hard counter for things that were in Europe, and didn't translate well to the americas.

They did work pretty great at actual battles on actual flat terrain, or in city fighting, interestingly enough.


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 Gallahad wrote:
Honestly they should really just make a mini sprue for the ranged weapon + zweihander options.

I really do think they risk ending up with 1-2 pike, a single sword and shield combo, 1-2 halberds, and 2-3 ranged weapons. It would be a box that wouldn't fit any purpose well.

They may also consider poses with swappable pike and halberd heads.

As I edited above, too much of some things, way too litle of most else.

I would have thought they’d have enough experience in the market to know by now whether they should target skirmish gamers or rank-and-flank gamers.

@Albertorious, I had never considered their use in city fighting. Thanks.

Yeah, I could personally do entirely without the arquebuses if I had to pick one thing to go without.

I totally agree they need more sword and shield and slightly longer swords (entirely rule of cool.)

As Albertorious has already mentioned, the forthcoming conquistadores should be mostly sword and buckler men. In the wikipedia article below, they write, "in 1520, over 1000 of his 1300 men were so equipped, and in 1521 he had 700 rodeleros, but only 118 arquebusiers and crossbowmen."

Rodeleros

On another note, today I assembled three WGA Halflings. While I have no objection to the Roman legionary helmets, I do find them amusing on Halflings, as they are the most unlikely imperialists. Presumably the halflings find it a practical design, and so copied it. My slinger is wearing one. My archer and crossbowman (a part from a Mordheim kit) wear kettle helmets. I'd hoped to turn the archer into a female halfling, but the Anvil Industries heads were poor fits, so no go. Mary Thyme will look a bit mannish when fielded. OTOH, don't twit her about it; she can fire a longbow twice per turn AND still do called shots. Her brother Harry Thyme uses a crossbow. The Thyme twins will be my expert marks-halflings when I start another Five Leagues from the Borderlands campaign.

I'll chime in with agreement for close combat weapons predominantly. Maybe 1 or 2 ranged weapons per sprue?

Ideally keep it all close and personal, then do a command set like the Grognards with some flashy bits, drums, and guns.

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
As Albertorious has already mentioned, the forthcoming conquistadores should be mostly sword and buckler men. In the wikipedia article below, they write, "in 1520, over 1000 of his 1300 men were so equipped, and in 1521 he had 700 rodeleros, but only 118 arquebusiers and crossbowmen."

One thing, though, is that a spanish "rodela" is not exactly a buckler, in the sense that over here we differentiate between "rodela" (relatively small, arming shield, about 50 to 60 cm wide, not gripped in the fist but strapped to the forearm) and the "broquel" (your usual, fist-gripped buckler, basically a loan word to specifically refer to those). Kind of the same way over here a rapier is split between the "ropera" (which is where the term comes, actually, and means "dress sword") and the "estoque" (which is what people mean by rapier, funnily enough).

As a general thing, a rodela is more a metal round shield than a buckler, metal and usually curved on the inside.