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Sunny Side Up wrote:


The emperor, if he did ever reproduce would've done so through old fashioned sex. Or perhaps/likely imbued part of himself in the Primarchs, thus being almost literally their father, in which case all Marines (including Grey Knights) could trace some genetic link/lineage to the Emperor.

[Spooky whisper] Sensei...

 AnomanderRake wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Octopoid wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
What do you mean the "first ones were mostly Loyalists from the Traitor legions"? That's not cannon at all. The GK's geneseed is from the emperor not any legion gene seed.

Citation Needed

If you read the Horus Heresy books, the first to become what would eventually become the Grey Knights were the loyalist marines from the Traitor Legions who escaped the dual massacres on Isstvan.

thats not true though, some where, but not all. of the confirmed founders of thre grey knights (we SEE their founding in buried dagger) one was an ultramarine. in fact the two most high profile traitors who joined the knights errant (Loken and Garro) ended up not being among the founders

List on Lexicanum has three from traitor Legions (one Luna Wolf, one Thousand Son, one Night Lord) and five from loyal Legions (one Blood Angel, one Ultramarine, one Space Wolf, one Raven Guard, one Dark Angel) amongst the eight original Grand Masters.

sure but my point is they weren't ALL former traitor legionares. Malcadore recruited from where he could

But where the first even used to produce new GK? In the codex it says they got titan with enough geneseed material in servitor breeder, to complet training for a whole chapter when they came out of the warp.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Octopoid wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
What do you mean the "first ones were mostly Loyalists from the Traitor legions"? That's not cannon at all. The GK's geneseed is from the emperor not any legion gene seed.

Citation Needed

If you read the Horus Heresy books, the first to become what would eventually become the Grey Knights were the loyalist marines from the Traitor Legions who escaped the dual massacres on Isstvan.

thats not true though, some where, but not all. of the confirmed founders of thre grey knights (we SEE their founding in buried dagger) one was an ultramarine. in fact the two most high profile traitors who joined the knights errant (Loken and Garro) ended up not being among the founders

List on Lexicanum has three from traitor Legions (one Luna Wolf, one Thousand Son, one Night Lord) and five from loyal Legions (one Blood Angel, one Ultramarine, one Space Wolf, one Raven Guard, one Dark Angel) amongst the eight original Grand Masters.

I refuse to acknowledge the BA participation in creating this gakshow.

Martel732 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Octopoid wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
What do you mean the "first ones were mostly Loyalists from the Traitor legions"? That's not cannon at all. The GK's geneseed is from the emperor not any legion gene seed.

Citation Needed

If you read the Horus Heresy books, the first to become what would eventually become the Grey Knights were the loyalist marines from the Traitor Legions who escaped the dual massacres on Isstvan.

thats not true though, some where, but not all. of the confirmed founders of thre grey knights (we SEE their founding in buried dagger) one was an ultramarine. in fact the two most high profile traitors who joined the knights errant (Loken and Garro) ended up not being among the founders

List on Lexicanum has three from traitor Legions (one Luna Wolf, one Thousand Son, one Night Lord) and five from loyal Legions (one Blood Angel, one Ultramarine, one Space Wolf, one Raven Guard, one Dark Angel) amongst the eight original Grand Masters.

I refuse to acknowledge the BA participation in creating this gakshow.

Hey, we had to get our stormravens from somewhere.

Martel732 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Octopoid wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
What do you mean the "first ones were mostly Loyalists from the Traitor legions"? That's not cannon at all. The GK's geneseed is from the emperor not any legion gene seed.

Citation Needed

If you read the Horus Heresy books, the first to become what would eventually become the Grey Knights were the loyalist marines from the Traitor Legions who escaped the dual massacres on Isstvan.

thats not true though, some where, but not all. of the confirmed founders of thre grey knights (we SEE their founding in buried dagger) one was an ultramarine. in fact the two most high profile traitors who joined the knights errant (Loken and Garro) ended up not being among the founders

List on Lexicanum has three from traitor Legions (one Luna Wolf, one Thousand Son, one Night Lord) and five from loyal Legions (one Blood Angel, one Ultramarine, one Space Wolf, one Raven Guard, one Dark Angel) amongst the eight original Grand Masters.

I refuse to acknowledge the BA participation in creating this gakshow.

grow up, the grey knights existed long before Matt Ward and they'll continue to exist after no matter how edgy you act

Until they get squatted. Glorious day that will be.

Martel732 wrote:
Until they get squatted. Glorious day that will be.

yeah because god forbid some people liking the army, god forbid that having anegitive impact on some people, hey what do you care right? jesus you're toxic.

They're a stupid, mary-sue faction in game overloaded with power armor. You could squat them, DA, BA, and SW and STILL have too much power armor in the game.

Martel732 wrote:
They're a stupid, mary-sue faction in game overloaded with power armor. You could squat them, DA, BA, and SW and STILL have too much power armor in the game.

dude you don't even know the hell a mary sue is, you just heard it once used and throw it away. the term Mary sue has come to fiction what nazi is to politics talk, Meanless babblre due to being iver used to infantile people wanting to bash things they dislike. And I'm tired of it, stop using that term, you don't know what it means and try and make an intelligent argument. bcause "DUR THEY'RE MARY SUES" doesn't hold any weight, at all.

Martel732 wrote:
They're a stupid, mary-sue faction in game overloaded with power armor. You could squat them, DA, BA, and SW and STILL have too much power armor in the game.

Just because you do not seen any need for something, does not mean they do not need to exist.

I think GK need a serious rethink though. Their former position as shiny übermarines with spears is usurped by the Custodes.

I think that it was a mistake to make these specialist marines like GK and DW into full armies; they would make more sense both concept and game play wise as components of a larges Inquisition faction. They could still have enough units that they could be fielded on their own in causal play.

I think it will happen eventually but the Grey Knights have no units that are shared in common with other Astartes beyond the vehicles.

I think Grey Knights would need a whole line of unique Primaris units, but I imagine that it will indeed happen one day. The army need to be re-designed i general. Custodes do what the Grey Knights did but better, and are arguable more iconic and fitting in their role as the most elite.

Why can't they just give normal primaris, give them access to GK psychic power and baby smite, with the GK points tax? GK dreads are different from normal dreads, but they don't have to have new models to have rules.

Same with most GK characters. Normal Grand Masters, Captins, brotherhood champions, Techmarines, Librarians don't have a Grey Knight version, but GW has no problems with giving them rules different from normal Marines.

That's not what Grey Knights are.

They are supposed to be cc specialists with force weapons on every guys.

No matter what happens, GK players can be happy that they have the objetively the best terminator kit that has ever existed.

 Galas wrote:
No matter what happens, GK players can be happy that they have the objetively the best terminator kit that has ever existed.

Yeah, those Rogue Trader era metal Grey Knights were really cool. I hope when they finally update the GKs we get a new wersion of those to replace the current weird abominations that do not even look like terminators.

The actual GK Terminator kit is the best terminator kit in relation to the options it gives you, the quality of those and the price. If you compare modern kits like the BA terminators or the new Chaos Terminators , those are much inferior kits just only in the quality and quantity of the actual content you are getting from them.

To call them weird abominations is an incredible exaggeration when the difference between them and the metal versions isn't that big.

Unless you are talking about THAT ugly madafaca that was the original RT GK Terminator.

Rather than primaris, I'd personally I'd prefer GK getting new kits in the same manner as Chaos Marines -- better scaled with more detail. It'd help keep them distinct from "normal" marines IMHO.

Crimson wrote:I think GK need a serious rethink though. Their former position as shiny übermarines with spears is usurped by the Custodes.

I'd like to see GK reworked around their whole Brotherhood of Psykers angle, as it is something that sets them apart from Custodes and helps them stand out amidst the myriad of choices the Imperium has when it comes to power armoured units. Without getting too much into the wishlisting rabbithole, maybe GW could give them more durability by having all the wards and protections built into their armour actually do something on the tabletop!

 Galas wrote:
The actual GK Terminator kit is the best terminator kit in relation to the options it gives you, the quality of those and the price. If you compare modern kits like the BA terminators or the new Chaos Terminators , those are much inferior kits just only in the quality and quantity of the actual content you are getting from them.

To call them weird abominations is an incredible exaggeration when the difference between them and the metal versions isn't that big.

Unless you are talking about THAT ugly madafaca that was the original RT GK Terminator.

Yes, I meant those, that's why I said 'Rogue Trader era'. Those were good. Obviously clunky sculpts by today's standards, but conceptually great. They certainly evoked the theme or mysterious, ornate, daemon hunting terminators.



The current ones (and the previous metal ones that looked the same) do not look like terminators. Apart the psychic hood they lack the part that goes over their head, giving the hunched look that make them look like terminators. People converted truescale power armour GKs out of the current plastic termies just by gluing a backpack on them, that's how little they look like terminators.

BrianDavion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
They're a stupid, mary-sue faction in game overloaded with power armor. You could squat them, DA, BA, and SW and STILL have too much power armor in the game.

dude you don't even know the hell a mary sue is, you just heard it once used and throw it away. the term Mary sue has come to fiction what nazi is to politics talk, Meanless babblre due to being iver used to infantile people wanting to bash things they dislike. And I'm tired of it, stop using that term, you don't know what it means and try and make an intelligent argument. bcause "DUR THEY'RE MARY SUES" doesn't hold any weight, at all.

Gonna need a Sensu bean for that one....

I'd prefer Titan to be destroyed, and all the GK's to get sucked into the warp to trot around after Draigo mysteriously showing up when needed.

Ohh wait thats legion of the Damned.

 Ishagu wrote:
That's not what Grey Knights are.

They are supposed to be cc specialists with force weapons on every guys.

Well then they had done something really wrong with the rules, because slow moving 1A str 4 dudes that costs 2-5times as much as other faction models, are horrible at melee. I guess they must have been good at melee in other editions. right now they do a lot better using their stormbolters, and staying away from melee with most of their stuff.

To be honest I don't know what is easier, to just add primaris with smite and psychic powers, or make GK good at melee. The only way I can think of making GK good at melee is either to give them a turn one charge with psychic powers to push their units closer, or give them jetbikes, but then they would just be different coloured custodes.


What made GK good at melee in the past, maybe that stuff could be brought back, to make GK better this or next edition?

BrianDavion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
They're a stupid, mary-sue faction in game overloaded with power armor. You could squat them, DA, BA, and SW and STILL have too much power armor in the game.

dude you don't even know the hell a mary sue is, you just heard it once used and throw it away. the term Mary sue has come to fiction what nazi is to politics talk, Meanless babblre due to being iver used to infantile people wanting to bash things they dislike. And I'm tired of it, stop using that term, you don't know what it means and try and make an intelligent argument. bcause "DUR THEY'RE MARY SUES" doesn't hold any weight, at all.

GK are so mary sue they make honor harrington look like cercei lannister. I know exactly what i mean.

Martel732 wrote:
I know exactly what i mean.

To be fair, other posters won't necessarily know what you mean if you don't substantiate your thoughts. I wouldn't disagree that some aspects of GK fluff is a bit ridiculous (I'm looking at you Kaldor Draigo! ), but warhammer lore has never exactly been a paragon of grounded realism.

 nurgle5 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I know exactly what i mean.

To be fair, other posters won't necessarily know what you mean if you don't substantiate your thoughts. I wouldn't disagree that some aspects of GK fluff is a bit ridiculous (I'm looking at you Kaldor Draigo! ), but warhammer lore has never exactly been a paragon of grounded realism.

Cough cough ANGRON LIFTING A WARHOUND Chough COUGH

 Crimson wrote:
I think GK need a serious rethink though. Their former position as shiny übermarines with spears is usurped by the Custodes.

I think that it was a mistake to make these specialist marines like GK and DW into full armies; they would make more sense both concept and game play wise as components of a larges Inquisition faction. They could still have enough units that they could be fielded on their own in causal play.

Lore wise the Custodes actually feel the Grey Knights ursurp the Custodes as the pinnacle.

Grey Knights as a faction that specializes in fighting Daemons isn't bad, but it should be expanded a bit to Chaos since Chaos incursions are the source of most Daemons incursions meaning that they can specialize to deal with the symptom as well as the problem. Basically give them the Deathwatch treatment, but make it Chaos instead of Xenos.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
They're a stupid, mary-sue faction in game overloaded with power armor. You could squat them, DA, BA, and SW and STILL have too much power armor in the game.

dude you don't even know the hell a mary sue is, you just heard it once used and throw it away. the term Mary sue has come to fiction what nazi is to politics talk, Meanless babblre due to being iver used to infantile people wanting to bash things they dislike. And I'm tired of it, stop using that term, you don't know what it means and try and make an intelligent argument. bcause "DUR THEY'RE MARY SUES" doesn't hold any weight, at all.

GK are so mary sue they make honor harrington look like cercei lannister. I know exactly what i mean.

Too bad your opinion holds less weight than a ton of lead floating in 0g....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 nurgle5 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I know exactly what i mean.

To be fair, other posters won't necessarily know what you mean if you don't substantiate your thoughts. I wouldn't disagree that some aspects of GK fluff is a bit ridiculous (I'm looking at you Kaldor Draigo! ), but warhammer lore has never exactly been a paragon of grounded realism.

Cough cough ANGRON LIFTING A WARHOUND Chough COUGH

Ferrus Manus CATCHING A LASCANNON BEAM AND CRUSHING IT WITH HIS HANDS.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
I think GK need a serious rethink though. Their former position as shiny übermarines with spears is usurped by the Custodes.

I think that it was a mistake to make these specialist marines like GK and DW into full armies; they would make more sense both concept and game play wise as components of a larges Inquisition faction. They could still have enough units that they could be fielded on their own in causal play.

Lore wise the Custodes actually feel the Grey Knights ursurp the Custodes as the pinnacle.

Grey Knights as a faction that specializes in fighting Daemons isn't bad, but it should be expanded a bit to Chaos since Chaos incursions are the source of most Daemons incursions meaning that they can specialize to deal with the symptom as well as the problem. Basically give them the Deathwatch treatment, but make it Chaos instead of Xenos.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
They're a stupid, mary-sue faction in game overloaded with power armor. You could squat them, DA, BA, and SW and STILL have too much power armor in the game.

dude you don't even know the hell a mary sue is, you just heard it once used and throw it away. the term Mary sue has come to fiction what nazi is to politics talk, Meanless babblre due to being iver used to infantile people wanting to bash things they dislike. And I'm tired of it, stop using that term, you don't know what it means and try and make an intelligent argument. bcause "DUR THEY'RE MARY SUES" doesn't hold any weight, at all.

GK are so mary sue they make honor harrington look like cercei lannister. I know exactly what i mean.

Too bad your opinion holds less weight than a ton of lead floating in 0g....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 nurgle5 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I know exactly what i mean.

To be fair, other posters won't necessarily know what you mean if you don't substantiate your thoughts. I wouldn't disagree that some aspects of GK fluff is a bit ridiculous (I'm looking at you Kaldor Draigo! ), but warhammer lore has never exactly been a paragon of grounded realism.

Cough cough ANGRON LIFTING A WARHOUND Chough COUGH

Ferrus Manus CATCHING A LASCANNON BEAM AND CRUSHING IT WITH HIS HANDS.

Marneus Calgar holding off an ENTIRE WAAAAAHHHHHH single handed. With just his swinging cod. Last part is a joke, but I thought the first part was established lore?

Calgar has pulled some BS himself between breaking an Avatar over his knee like he's friggin' Bane, to slap fighting a Hive Tyrant to death (later upgraded to the Swarmlord because the Nids didn't job hard enough as is). Sicarius pulls some BS involving time travel and Necrons in an audio drama, not to mention refueling a Jump Pack using a Crisis Suit's energy source.

Basically, the lore is full of stupid little tidbits but we give most of those a pass as being friggin' stupid instead of dwelling on it like some obsessive lore nazi.

Now I get the complaint that the 5th edition over hypes the Grey Knights, but I honestly think that's the point. The chapter fights wars no one else even remembers so it gets so far up it's own backside that it treats every single Grey Knight like some great hero that is the sole reason the Imperium hasn't fallen to Daemon infestation.

I say this, because despite how great the speed of the Grey Knights ships are said to be, the friggin' Sisters of Battle (who don't even HAVE their own ships) managed to land on a shrine world that was spat out of the warp, enter the catacombs for DAYS, recover several artefacts and LEAVE before the Grey Knights even got into the system to Exterminatus the planet.

Basically I'm saying that the whole codex is written from their ego-tripping perspective as they don't answer to anyone who would keep their ego in check, and we know that Astartes egos tend to be over inflated and easily bruised as it is.

I feel that for rules the Grey Knights need to shift to being more rules oriented to both Daemons and Chaos (since Chaos tends to involve daeamons whenever they show up anyways) and have them function as a more melee focused version of the Deathwatch in terms of playability.

Martel732 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
They're a stupid, mary-sue faction in game overloaded with power armor. You could squat them, DA, BA, and SW and STILL have too much power armor in the game.

dude you don't even know the hell a mary sue is, you just heard it once used and throw it away. the term Mary sue has come to fiction what nazi is to politics talk, Meanless babblre due to being iver used to infantile people wanting to bash things they dislike. And I'm tired of it, stop using that term, you don't know what it means and try and make an intelligent argument. bcause "DUR THEY'RE MARY SUES" doesn't hold any weight, at all.

GK are so mary sue they make honor harrington look like cercei lannister. I know exactly what i mean.

Okay then- I'll call your bluff. What part of the author's wish fulfilment is in the GK background? I'll wait.