is it foolish to hope that other armies will follow this new marine codex structure?

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**Kanluwen**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
The "Kroot Merc Codex" was literally just "Convert this".

If only this was a hobby that encouraged conversions and kitbashing. /s
I don't see the problem with that.

Because, frankly, pretending that "The Kroot Merc Codex" was anything more than it was?
It's ridiculous.

It was a Chapter Approved list that was done at a time when you could bits order individual things such as Gargoyle Wings, Eviscerators, and other items.

It won't work now unless there's a full kit and people seem to forget that even when it was at the height of its popularity, it wasn't exactly a common thing to see.

**Mr Morden**

Breton wrote:
Ishagu wrote:
I personally think it would be great, but I doubt other factions have the popularity to pull it off.

It works with Marines because the range and variety is also massive. It *could* work with Guard and Orks.

It works with Marines, and could work with Guard, Orks, and Chaos Space Marines because they have the depth for it. CSM get more hampered than most doing this though, and probably need a Black Legion Rule to be able to mix and match more than the Salamanders and Iron Hands do.

The real problem isn't the rules. Its the fluff. How many pages on the history, motivations, and uniqueness of Hive Fleet Gorgon do you think there are? How many different ways can you write a story about how the Nids like to eat stuff? It's one thing to borrow stories from our own history to flesh out Guard and Space Marines as various historical cultures - or stereotypes of those cultures - in a sci-fi setting. White Scars are Mongols, Ultramarines are Romans, The sons of Dorn pull a lot from the Crusades and Renaissance - scholar warriors who study engineering, sapping etc see: Sigismund the Holy Roman Emperor. There are similar sometimes even more obvious parallels for the Guard regiments. I would assume there are also some for the Orks. Necrons are fairly obviously Egyptian, especially now that we've gotten rid of Fantasy Tomb Kings, but it's going to be difficult to expect the player base to know enough to differentiate between Dynasties. Tau Septs being Cold War Soviet governments like Cuba, China, and the USSR has a better shot than that. Some of these upper level factions just don't have the variety to support multiple codex supplements.

I do really think that authors creating non Marine supplements can equal the amount of time and effort put into writting say the Space Wolf Codex's. Adding the word Wolf to every sentance is not hard.

The Guard regiments in the lore are far far more diverse than the Marine Chapters as are the Craftworlds. As is the Tau Empire - but we don;t get to see this as Marines.......

**Grimtuff**

Kanluwen wrote:
The "Kroot Merc Codex" was literally just "Convert this".

So? So was LATD, Cursed Founding, Feral Orks and several others. What's your point?

**Kanluwen**

Lost and the Damned was in Codex: Eye of Terror...and later saw new life as "Renegades and Heretics" from FW.

If you can't see the difference, that's on you.

**Grimtuff**

Kanluwen wrote:
Lost and the Damned was in Codex: Eye of Terror...and later saw new life as "Renegades and Heretics" from FW.

1- Not the same list. At all.
2- LATD was also just a "convert this" list with ZERO official models.

No legs to stand on there mateybobs.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Not Online!!! wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
The "Kroot Merc Codex" was literally just "Convert this".

If only this was a hobby that encouraged conversions and kitbashing. /s
I don't see the problem with that.

It isn't anymore.
Atleast not agter chapterhouse.
And certainly not if you go to offical gw stores

Now that's just sad

Especially if you play orks, which was the army that was pretty much designed for conversions. How else are you going to get that ramshackle, customized look?

**Not Online!!!**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
The "Kroot Merc Codex" was literally just "Convert this".

If only this was a hobby that encouraged conversions and kitbashing. /s
I don't see the problem with that.

It isn't anymore.
Atleast not after chapterhouse.
And certainly not if you go to offical gw stores

Now that's just sad
Especially if you play orks, which was the army that was pretty much designed for conversions. How else are you going to get that ramshackle, customized look?

You see. Atleast your army will survive.
My main one "just" got squatted.
La vié est duré sans confiture.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Well, my main army is Necrons which is like the red headed step child of the xenos factions.
Orks at least got some new units recently. Having the fine cast miniatures redone into plastic would have been nice too, and the fact I can't use my Big Mek annoys the hell out of me, but at least they got something.
Necrons haven't received anything significant from GW since 5th ed.

**Not Online!!!**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Well, my main army is Necrons which is like the red headed step child of the xenos factions.
Orks at least got some new units recently. Having the fine cast miniatures redone into plastic would have been nice too, and the fact I can't use my Big Mek annoys the hell out of me, but at least they got something.
Necrons haven't received anything significant from GW since 5th ed.

Bah, still better then the conscriptable aspect line

Heck they could've been voting the whole time

But fair it ain't and the less said about sob's the better.

**Jidmah**

Just making the Speed Freaks (including trukk boyz) viable and maybe buff the stompa to the levels of a galant would do more for Orks than releasing even more stuff.

The one thing we never have been lacking was new kits. We got our planes as one of the first armies, 7th brought new artillery, flash gits, MANz, wazbomm, nauts and three Meks (SAG, MA, mini) and now 8th brought five new buggies, a new "biker warboss" and the mek shop.

New kits might be nice, but I for one am still struggling to catch up with what they already have released

**the_scotsman**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
The "Kroot Merc Codex" was literally just "Convert this".

If only this was a hobby that encouraged conversions and kitbashing. /s
I don't see the problem with that.

It isn't anymore.
Atleast not agter chapterhouse.
And certainly not if you go to offical gw stores

Now that's just sad
Especially if you play orks, which was the army that was pretty much designed for conversions. How else are you going to get that ramshackle, customized look?

Why, by purchasing your choice of Bespoke Ramshackle TM Ork Vehicles! Do you want to feel more Unique tm? Why not just buy a Dakkawazzle Snagglewaggler, the newest Bespoke Ork Product from Games Workshop PLC? It's got a tri-kustom snazzsquigger and three triple shoota-blastas! All of them do! There's only one way to build the kit, with this ork in this pose here, and the driver in a pose like this, and a gretchin hanging off the thing here! If you buy two, they look totally identical! Why is that a problem?

**Not Online!!!**

the_scotsman wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
The "Kroot Merc Codex" was literally just "Convert this".

If only this was a hobby that encouraged conversions and kitbashing. /s
I don't see the problem with that.

It isn't anymore.
Atleast not agter chapterhouse.
And certainly not if you go to offical gw stores

Now that's just sad
Especially if you play orks, which was the army that was pretty much designed for conversions. How else are you going to get that ramshackle, customized look?

Why, by purchasing your choice of Bespoke Ramshackle TM Ork Vehicles! Do you want to feel more Unique tm? Why not just buy a Dakkawazzle Snagglewaggler, the newest Bespoke Ork Product from Games Workshop PLC? It's got a tri-kustom snazzsquigger and three triple shoota-blastas! All of them do! There's only one way to build the kit, with this ork in this pose here, and the driver in a pose like this, and a gretchin hanging off the thing here! If you buy two, they look totally identical! Why is that a problem?

gw corporation and associated gw stores will not accept 3rd Parties parts used on models. Any and all non conform unit will not be tolerated so long it is not to 95% gw manufactured.

**captain collius**

Quasistellar wrote:
fraser1191 wrote:
I can see specific ones getting a supplement. Farsight enclaves comes to mind. I can't see every single faction getting one that'd be a bit much. But marines are definitely a test to see how it works, as well as most likely to find out how big of a base these other chapters have for model sculpts

I've always been interested in Tau, but the way they play right now is repulsive to me. All these super cool mech/battlesuits and they. . . stand back and shoot. They need to take a page from their anime inspiration and get some proper melee battlesuits, at least for Farsight Enclaves.

Umm Soo take away the only weakness of the race and how they fight.

As I understand it for drinks and chaos it works like this.

Chaos demons: khorne and slaanesh aren't super viable, model line is in a good place that said plastic beasts would be nice.
CSM: book needed a couple of kits could use plasticizing.
Eldar: just plasticize the line (scorpions/banshees fire dragons/reapers swooping hawks/spiders would work throw in updated autarch multi kit and Shining spear upgrade sprue.
DE: just some models
Orks: Viable but aging rapidly new kits and a book?
Necrons: updated rules maybe but seem okay.
Tau: just fine

**Marin**

I guess the speculations 2019 will be chaos and imperium year were correct.
The next year will probably see some aeldar releases.
I hope necrons will get some love, they can use it, some thing for nids.
Orcs just need buff of the new buggies, very cool models and i think most orc players will be mostly happy.

About SM marine popularity, in my local shops there are a tons of SM models collecting dust, GW force shops to pay and keep alot of them and most other factions models are purchased on regular basis. There is reason GW release the new broken rules, they want to sell this models since they overproduced them. Every packet have SM, sadly they overbuffed them before i start to build my SM purchased, i don`t want to be the person who bring the new broken hotness.

**Gene St. Ealer**

bullyboy wrote:
Don't forget, to have a supplement they also need to create new models to go along with it.

Guard are ripe for it with so many regiments not represented in plastic plus a character to go with it.

Eldar are another faction that could go with it, leading with Biel Tan and Aspects, Alaitoc with Rangers and character. Others not to much unfortunately. Iyanden is my army but what new plastic do we need? They'd have to create something new like a wraithlord character, and update Yriel.

Don't know much about Orks, but not sure how popular separate factions are to warrant books.

Tau, Necrons Drukhari and nids definitely don't need it.

Why is this a no-go? Marines get this sort of gak all the time. Special wraiths for Iyanden to represent the surge of life energy absorbed by the infinity circuit. Unique Nid bioforms to represent the adaptations made due to different hive fleets fighting in different areas. 4th Sphere Expansion Tau, with new units who fight differently due to all the trials and tribulations they've gone through. How is this any different than what GW does with Marines, and why would it be verboten for Xenos?

**Jidmah**

Goff have more clan-specific models than Imperial Fists

**evil_kiwi_60**

I wouldn't hold your breath on sharing the golden boys special rules. In 6th and 7th edition SM were pretty much the only faction to get extra rules for their paint scheme.

**AnomanderRake**

Very, very foolish. People have been whining about "why are there four Space Marine Codexes and only one for anyone else?" for...it's got to be going on twenty years, now, and GW has shown no sign of doing anything about it yet.

**BrianDavion**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Necrons haven't received anything significant from GW since 5th ed.

tesseract vault and cryptic

**ccs**

the_scotsman wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
The "Kroot Merc Codex" was literally just "Convert this".

If only this was a hobby that encouraged conversions and kitbashing. /s
I don't see the problem with that.

It isn't anymore.
Atleast not agter chapterhouse.
And certainly not if you go to offical gw stores

Now that's just sad
Especially if you play orks, which was the army that was pretty much designed for conversions. How else are you going to get that ramshackle, customized look?

Why, by purchasing your choice of Bespoke Ramshackle TM Ork Vehicles! Do you want to feel more Unique tm? Why not just buy a Dakkawazzle Snagglewaggler, the newest Bespoke Ork Product from Games Workshop PLC? It's got a tri-kustom snazzsquigger and three triple shoota-blastas! All of them do! There's only one way to build the kit, with this ork in this pose here, and the driver in a pose like this, and a gretchin hanging off the thing here! If you buy two, they look totally identical! Why is that a problem?

This is only a problem if you're lazy - or incompetent with an exacto knife, some glue, & a heap-o-100%GW-bitz....

**Eonfuzz**

People saying "theres not enough lore for non meharoin 2 get gud supl3mants" have to understand that these supplements... serve as a way to expand and extend the lore.

Do I want to read how the Maynarkh Necrons are manipulating time itself to erase the existence of pesky mortals? Hell yeah!
Do I want to read about Ghazkhul and his Goffs slowly morphing into prime orks as their WAAAAGH! begins to rampage through the cosmos? Hell yeah!

It's all about effort in, sales out. And frankly I'm over the bizarre circlejerk where certain people think the Xenos races are somehow less interesting than humans on drugs.

**Isengard**

To some extent they already went in this direction. Since they went over to allowing mix'n'match armies with cross-codex forces they have needed to change. Clearly that structure was extremely helpful to the Imperium. By combining dexes you had the ability to build a force that addressed the weaknesses of the individual forces by patching in others. Play GK and have limited long range firepower? Bring in an IG artillery group, etc.

I know that they were looking to do the same thing for other factions. That is why they broke down Eldar into Harlequins, Craftworlds and started to break down the absolute divide between 'good' and 'bad' Eldar with the Ynnari, etc. They wanted to allow the Eldar a similar set-up. I am certain there is an exodite book being developed somewhere.

I spoke to several of the writers about this at an open event years back now and they confirmed this - i.e. they wanted to break down the factions more to allow mix'n'match between sub-factions.

The new marine dex is a more refined version of this and would work for other factions well, main book with some books branching off. I would absolutely expect to see something similar for other factions.

**Jidmah**

Eonfuzz wrote:
People saying "theres not enough lore for non meharoin 2 get gud supl3mants" have to understand that these supplements... serve as a way to expand and extend the lore.

Do I want to read how the Maynarkh Necrons are manipulating time itself to erase the existence of pesky mortals? Hell yeah!
Do I want to read about Ghazkhul and his Goffs slowly morphing into prime orks as their WAAAAGH! begins to rampage through the cosmos? Hell yeah!

It's all about effort in, sales out. And frankly I'm over the bizarre circlejerk where certain people think the Xenos races are somehow less interesting than humans on drugs.

I would love to see the Great Waaagh! supplement done right. Bigger and badder nobz and MANz, Leftennunts warbosses, Thrakka leading any clan, Council of da Waaagh! and some other ideas that weren't just "buy more models for a useless bonus".

**Not Online!!!**

It would be nice if first all armies get up to scratch.
before we start supplementing.

But GW anyways allready has started supplementing even before SoB.

Which basically means not all armies will get propperly up to scratch. And god forbid if you have an FW list.

wake me when 9th rolls around, maybee there will be for once something done about that.

**BrianDavion**

IMHO if they do Orks stuff rather then Clan supplements, I'd like to see an Ork freebooterz and a feral Orks codex.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:
It would be nice if first all armies get up to scratch.
before we start supplementing.

But GW anyways allready has started supplementing even before SoB.

Which basically means not all armies will get propperly up to scratch. And god forbid if you have an FW list.
wake me when 9th rolls around, maybee there will be for once something done about that.

other then sisters of battle every army has a codex. and sisters is coming, presumably they have multiple teams who can work on a codex, and I expect sisters will benifit from lessons learned on space marines.

**Not Online!!!**

BrianDavion wrote:
IMHO if they do Orks stuff rather then Clan supplements, I'd like to see an Ork freebooterz and a feral Orks codex.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:
It would be nice if first all armies get up to scratch.
before we start supplementing.

But GW anyways allready has started supplementing even before SoB.

Which basically means not all armies will get propperly up to scratch. And god forbid if you have an FW list.
wake me when 9th rolls around, maybee there will be for once something done about that.

other then sisters of battle every army has a codex. and sisters is coming, presumably they have multiple teams who can work on a codex, and I expect sisters will benifit from lessons learned on space marines.

Marked for better understanding.

**Eldarsif**

Isengard wrote:
To some extent they already went in this direction. Since they went over to allowing mix'n'match armies with cross-codex forces they have needed to change. Clearly that structure was extremely helpful to the Imperium. By combining dexes you had the ability to build a force that addressed the weaknesses of the individual forces by patching in others. Play GK and have limited long range firepower? Bring in an IG artillery group, etc.

I know that they were looking to do the same thing for other factions. That is why they broke down Eldar into Harlequins, Craftworlds and started to break down the absolute divide between 'good' and 'bad' Eldar with the Ynnari, etc. They wanted to allow the Eldar a similar set-up. I am certain there is an exodite book being developed somewhere.

I spoke to several of the writers about this at an open event years back now and they confirmed this - i.e. they wanted to break down the factions more to allow mix'n'match between sub-factions.

The new marine dex is a more refined version of this and would work for other factions well, main book with some books branching off. I would absolutely expect to see something similar for other factions.

I think you are right. I just wonder what can be done for Necrons. Orks can get Grots as a standalone force, Tau can have Kroot and Vespid, but Necrons seem to stand somewhat alone unless there is a lore change. Although it would be funny if Necrons and Ad Mech became buddies.

**balmong7**

BrianDavion wrote:

other then sisters of battle every army has a codex. and sisters is coming, presumably they have multiple teams who can work on a codex, and I expect sisters will benifit from lessons learned on space marines.

Multiple teams working on codices isn't a good thing. We have previously established that GW writers don't speak to each other during development. I give it a 99% chance that the sisters book is a 1.0 codex released in the middle of the 2.0 world. So we are going to get months of GW being like "Why don't you like this codex that was clearly written and sent to the printers before the 2.0 power creep?"

**Not Online!!!**

balmong7 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:

other then sisters of battle every army has a codex. and sisters is coming, presumably they have multiple teams who can work on a codex, and I expect sisters will benifit from lessons learned on space marines.

Multiple teams working on codices isn't a good thing. We have previously established that GW writers don't speak to each other during development. I give it a 99% chance that the sisters book is a 1.0 codex released in the middle of the 2.0 world. So we are going to get months of GW being like "Why don't you like this codex that was clearly written and sent to the printers before the 2.0 power creep?"

CSM 2.0 Situation compared to C:SM 2.0 right there.

**CthuluIsSpy**

BrianDavion wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Necrons haven't received anything significant from GW since 5th ed.

tesseract vault and cryptic

I do not consider a plastic character (that's not even really new. The gear is new, but that's it) that was exclusive to a box set for several months and an ugly LoW and expensive choice to be significant.
Significant would be something like 3+ brand new units that are not LoWs.