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 BaconCatBug wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Yet more rules bloat. GW are really trying to push it to needing 150 rules sources aren't they?

Not really. The Marine codex basically negated the need for Vigilus.

I guess all those Imperial Guard players only need the Space Marine codex now?

I was talking about for Marines. You miss read that post much like you misread the rules: intentionally to generate drama.

The point is that codex updates roll supplements into the codexes (excluding CSM since they were likely done before Vigilus and not released until after for some reason).

 techsoldaten wrote:
Yeah. So, let's remember, GW generally sticks to a pattern that repeats over the course of several years.

In late 7th edition, we got Gathering Storm, Clan Raukaan, Traitor Legions, Traitor's Hate, etc. They were all good for about a year.

Now it's 8th edition. We just got the Vigilus Books, new CSM and SM codexes, now Psychic Awakening.

This is a hint. 9th edition is on the way.

Codex Space Marines was almost blatantly an 8.5 edition book, so this is not wrong.

It is a supplement. You don't need to buy it if you don't want to.

Does this mean maybe warlock conclave might be worth a gak?

Ok, but we know when it drops it'll have things in it that when you ask " How should I set up this unit X ? " Everyone will then say " Well you need to use psychic awakening formation 134 otherwise it sucks "

So yeah, you don't need to use the supplement but everyone will be using them against you. Now, you don't need each book, as each one focuses on a couple factions. Honestly its just more bloat for the bloat throne.

It's not needed, but you'll want them to keep up with everyone else dropping them swank new rules on your head.

I'm not bitter about it, they honestly aren't very surprising at this point but saying it won't end up paying to win by little or large is wrong, it will be. Obviously a better player will have more chances vs a worse one still but it'll make a difference as they wouldn't drop a line of books with weak rules, you're paying for an edge to win.

I just hope my new super keen must have formations, rules and items are worth the cost.

 Ginjitzu wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:
I'm pissed off they couldn't have an announcement for 40k without saying they're releasing more Mehreen models first.

You shouldn't take it so personally. It's no surprise at all that Space Marines are getting new models, and will continue to do so at least until all of the new Space Marine supplements are released. It's likely that you're going to see at least one new Primaris Character for each supplement. We've already seen Kor'sarro Khan, the new Iron Hands tech marine, and now Kayvaan Shrike. Expect at least one new Primaris character each for Imperial Fists and Salamanders, and don't be surprised if Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Dark Angels start to jump on board the Primaris train after that.

It's a basically a joke at this point, during every non-marine release they've also teased marine models.
See: "Orktober" and Knights

warpedpig wrote:
Does this mean maybe warlock conclave might be worth a gak?

Dude… Don't get my hopes up!
The conclave was arguably fine at 30ppm...

I dunno, I find more value in a $50 hardback book (like both Vigilus) than a single $50 kit these days, but that's just me.

 Eonfuzz wrote:

 Ginjitzu wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:
I'm pissed off they couldn't have an announcement for 40k without saying they're releasing more Mehreen models first.

You shouldn't take it so personally. It's no surprise at all that Space Marines are getting new models, and will continue to do so at least until all of the new Space Marine supplements are released. It's likely that you're going to see at least one new Primaris Character for each supplement. We've already seen Kor'sarro Khan, the new Iron Hands tech marine, and now Kayvaan Shrike. Expect at least one new Primaris character each for Imperial Fists and Salamanders, and don't be surprised if Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Dark Angels start to jump on board the Primaris train after that.

It's a basically a joke at this point, during every non-marine release they've also teased marine models.
See: "Orktober" and Knights

Yeah, but if it's a joke, laugh at it. Don't get pissed off just because Games-Workshop produce and promote those lines that have the greatest return on their investment. Or are you pissed off because Space Marine's are so popular with the consumers in the first place? Either way, getting pissed off solves neither issue and the only thing that'll suffer is your own mental health. Just try to enjoy the stuff that was revealed that you are interested in.

 Eonfuzz wrote:

 Ginjitzu wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:
I'm pissed off they couldn't have an announcement for 40k without saying they're releasing more Mehreen models first.

You shouldn't take it so personally. It's no surprise at all that Space Marines are getting new models, and will continue to do so at least until all of the new Space Marine supplements are released. It's likely that you're going to see at least one new Primaris Character for each supplement. We've already seen Kor'sarro Khan, the new Iron Hands tech marine, and now Kayvaan Shrike. Expect at least one new Primaris character each for Imperial Fists and Salamanders, and don't be surprised if Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Dark Angels start to jump on board the Primaris train after that.

It's a basically a joke at this point, during every non-marine release they've also teased marine models.
See: "Orktober" and Knights

except that those teases you focus on weren't teases for Orktober and Knights. they where teases from various events on upcoming products down the line.

Yay, more supplements. Not.
The bloat continues.....

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Yet more rules bloat. GW are really trying to push it to needing 150 rules sources aren't they?

Just for you I hope we need double this amount

warpedpig wrote:
Does this mean maybe warlock conclave might be worth a gak?

That's a good one! Do you do graduations and birthdays?

PenitentJake wrote:
The difference between "Wow, we all have to buy new supplements" and "Wow, we're all getting new content" is in the eye of the beholder.

But we already have so much content. This is just bloat, that we'll have to buy, because it'll be powerful rules wise.

If it's like Vigilus where there's a few campaign books covering lots of armies, maybe I won't really mind. But if it's another 15-20 quid to run every army you have competitively, that'll be much more in the have to buy rather than new content camp for me.

I don't understand the hate on new supplements, yearly updates etc. Playing 3rd-7th I am pretty sure everyone was wishing that GW would actually update armies in a timely manner and provide new rules, abilities etc. to armies that had been ignored for years. There were times when I was using a 4th edition book in 5th and even 6th edition with no review of points, abilities, or anything. I would gladly pay more money and have to bring more books, rules or whatever then go back to when a codex would come out (CSM 4th or 6th) and suck, then never get any updates for years, while codex creep makes all but the most net list options completely useless in even casual games. No thank you to that, bring on the supplements.

 Ginjitzu wrote:

 buddha wrote:
It sounds like it is not one book but the series title. It appears that like the vigilus books they are campaign books that will focus on "two or more" factions. This no need to get unless you want the book for the fluff or the faction rules. Basically a way to update armies without having to do whole new dexes.

I much prefer it this way. Rewriting a codex pisses me off, because it invalidates the one I already have. Campaign supplements however, supplement my codex, giving me the choice to partake or ignore as I feel. I always prefer choice over mandate.

yeah, but if they are only going to do supplements, then it doesn't really help armies with bad core rules. An sm codex on its own is sitll very nice. With a supplement it gets better, but because there is units worth upgrading with the supplement rules. if you get 2-3 units, but there is nothing to really apply it to, or worse the unit that got "buffs" won't be taken anyway, then you're spending money on something that doesn't really work.


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 xeen wrote:
I don't understand the hate on new supplements, yearly updates etc. Playing 3rd-7th I am pretty sure everyone was wishing that GW would actually update armies in a timely manner and provide new rules, abilities etc. to armies that had been ignored for years. There were times when I was using a 4th edition book in 5th and even 6th edition with no review of points, abilities, or anything. I would gladly pay more money and have to bring more books, rules or whatever then go back to when a codex would come out (CSM 4th or 6th) and suck, then never get any updates for years, while codex creep makes all but the most net list options completely useless in even casual games. No thank you to that, bring on the supplements.

Am not sure if it works like this for everyone, but I can give my own view on it. Each year you have to buy CA, it does nothing for me army. The way it was bad, it stays bad, but I still have to order the book to play at the store. GK didn't get any supplements yet, and were skipped in Vigilus I&II, but if the books had rules that were crap and update nothing, but I would have to buy them, because they have an update statline and costs for units, I would not be happy.

From other people that play here, I know that some people at my store don't like the fact that GW does stuff like bring out a chaos codex, but then put all the good rules in a supplement. The SM codex is good alone, vigilus gives SM superior rules, to a point where it is hard to compare chaos codex stuff with vigilus armies, but you need to buy two. And both books came more or less at the same time. So maybe that is why some people dilsike it. Though this is just my store. Everyone here keeps telling me it is different from how other people play, so maybe people in other places have different reasons too.

My problem with Psychic Awakening is that it sounds like it's going to be many books based around war zones.

I hate war zones. That and all the salt when they tie up plot lines and people complain about 40K being a setting.

I hope it is not going to end up with some armies getting rules like buffs for the whole army, while others get rules that work only for specific enemy, when you fight on specific planet.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
My problem with Psychic Awakening is that it sounds like it's going to be many books based around war zones.

I hate war zones. That and all the salt when they tie up plot lines and people complain about 40K being a setting.

While I do think that things were way WAY better as a setting I don't think anyone can argue that it's really a setting anymore. Now the best we can hope for is that the new lore we get is sensible, makes sense and isn't just churned out by someone who doesn't care or try. But sadly that's not a guarantee.

Tell me most of the people griping aren't just going to wait a week and then preview all the new formations and bits on Battlescribe.

We knew GW was going to keep selling books and we knew those books would contain rules. Its not new. If they are anything like the VIgilus books, someone in your play group will buy it, you'll write down what you need to know from them or battlescribe and life will continue.

Fluff nuts like me will always buy the books, but I doubt I've opened either vigilus books three weeks after I made the purchase.

Great, with psychic awakening every faction will get new rules, so i guess tsons will get to spam 60MW per turn.

A something doesn't have to be rules. It could be a new model, or even some sort of lore story.

Karol wrote:
A something doesn't have to be rules. It could be a new model, or even some sort of lore story.

You keep going off on tangents. Just stick to their statement - Every army will get rules. Some will get models. Some, if not all, rules will be in warzones. That's all we know.

They could release another 15 books covering every intricate aspect of Orkish warfare across all possible warzones and I'd buy them all happily.

You either want more content for your faction or you don't. You don't "need" anything except the rulebook and respective codex to play. No one forced anyone to buy the v2 SM codex but I bet it flew off the shelves. No doubt these books will too. I think they're a great idea and one of the best things that GW have announced so far.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Yet more rules bloat. GW are really trying to push it to needing 150 rules sources aren't they?

Not really. The Marine codex basically negated the need for Vigilus.

I guess all those Imperial Guard players only need the Space Marine codex now?

I was talking about for Marines. You miss read that post much like you misread the rules: intentionally to generate drama.

The point is that codex updates roll supplements into the codexes (excluding CSM since they were likely done before Vigilus and not released until after for some reason).

You know... except when they purposefully strip content OUT of the Codex so that they can generate multiple day one DLCs, err.. Supplements. If GW was a video game manufacturer, the customer base would be universally losing their minds over this Marines Codex being split into ~9 books nonsense.

As to the original point, you don't have to buy anything if you don't want to... BUT, if you want to use the new models that will inevitably be released alongside these campaign books, you'll need to pony up for said books. I think GW has worked out how to charge ~$30-50 USD for really fancy datasheets every time they release a new model from now on.

Removed

GW please come out with a subscription based rule service because my god would that be great quality of life change and service.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
They could release another 15 books covering every intricate aspect of Orkish warfare across all possible warzones and I'd buy them all happily.

You either want more content for your faction or you don't. You don't "need" anything except the rulebook and respective codex to play. No one forced anyone to buy the v2 SM codex but I bet it flew off the shelves. No doubt these books will too. I think they're a great idea and one of the best things that GW have announced so far.

That only works if your faction also get's something.
And also does not include updated datasheets.
But alas gw can't do wrong.

Not Online!!! wrote:
But alas gw can't do wrong.

Wait till you see my post about Warhammer "Legends".....

Of course they can do wrong, they often do. For me though, this aint it. I want to consume content for my faction, the more content the better. I have the disposable income. Give it me GW!

that said ti doesn't follow that 1k sons will get some new super psyker In fact if I was told "make a new 1k sons unit" I'd consider making a unique deamon engine to try and fill that area out. 1K sons needs some unique heavy supprot

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I hate war zones. That and all the salt when they tie up plot lines and people complain about 40K being a setting.

Oh I'm salty as all hell about 40k having an advancing plotline, but unlike supplements there isn't as much to bitch about. They've changed the setting full of mystery and room to manuvre into yet another copy of the mcu, but there's bugger that can be done about it. At least it's potentially possible for them to switch back to releasing fewer supplements.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
No one forced anyone to buy the v2 SM codex but I bet it flew off the shelves.

Hate to break it to you but the new codex has invalidated the old codex. If you want to play at any event, not just a GW one, you have to use the new codex, the old one does not have the same rules, statlines, abilities or points. Not to mention the rules are way better for marines, so you'd be an idiot not to buy it if you want to be competitive and live in an area where people don't mind running old rules for private games. Which I fear will be the same for psychic awakening (not the invalidation but the power of the rules).