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It's just a few. Craftworlds get 22 different traits, Drukhari probably have more too.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I was really looking forward to these but now i'm not. Overall it doesnt help what it needs to help and keeps the Kabal venom spam top meta.

The Kabal ones just make Venoms and Flyers strong (they already are strong now), Venoms with +3" movement and +1D, Flyers as wych with +1 wound, and no one is taking the coven b.c coven is unplayable with PoF.
Kabal already has +3" movement, that SHOULD have been for the Wyches (it would make Hellions and Reavers more playable), the +1 invul SHOULD be able to take with another trait b.c its a terrible trait alone (or it should just have been +1 to all invuls always if it was stand alone).


Why does Kabal get +3" movement? They already have that, give the +3" to Wych fly units would have been amazing, Reavers/Hellions with +3" base, meaning a drug on Hellions for +5" movement, that is something i would have done, no Kabal, they already have flawed skull. Give us something "Different".
Over all these are bad IMO, it doesnt help the weak units and just makes the strong units stay strong, it doesnt help the units in the correct ways either.


Coven outside of FW doesnt get a Ravager with its Keyword nor the Flyers (and i dont trust FW right now, i'm ignoring the Reaper/Tantalus b.c Legends), if the new obsessions and keywords helps coven with Raider+Grots, like +3" movement and disembarked after moving +charge, then yes i will give up PoF, but they made no attempt to change play styles or help out units so far.

I really hope these new obsessions can be used for each other and not as a subfaction wall.

FWIW, many of the Space Marine traits are like this as well: You get half of one of the "canonical chapter" traits as one of your flexi-traits. I would expect this as a theme going forward. I know they referenced CWE having the ability to take the current Ulthwe trait as one of the flexi-traits as well, which makes sense to me.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I was really looking forward to these but now i'm not. Overall it doesnt help what it needs to help and keeps the Kabal venom spam top meta.

The Kabal ones just make Venoms and Flyers strong (they already are strong now), Venoms with +3" movement and +1D, Flyers as wych with +1 wound, and no one is taking the coven b.c coven is unplayable with PoF.
Kabal already has +3" movement, that SHOULD have been for the Wyches (it would make Hellions and Reavers more playable), the +1 invul SHOULD be able to take with another trait b.c its a terrible trait alone (or it should just have been +1 to all invuls always if it was stand alone).


Why does Kabal get +3" movement? They already have that, give the +3" to Wych fly units would have been amazing, Reavers/Hellions with +3" base, meaning a drug on Hellions for +5" movement, that is something i would have done, no Kabal, they already have flawed skull. Give us something "Different".
Over all these are bad IMO, it doesnt help the weak units and just makes the strong units stay strong, it doesnt help the units in the correct ways either.


Coven outside of FW doesnt get a Ravager with its Keyword nor the Flyers (and i dont trust FW right now, i'm ignoring the Reaper/Tantalus b.c Legends), if the new obsessions and keywords helps coven with Raider+Grots, like +3" movement and disembarked after moving +charge, then yes i will give up PoF, but they made no attempt to change play styles or help out units so far.

I really hope these new obsessions can be used for each other and not as a subfaction wall.

FWIW, many of the Space Marine traits are like this as well: You get half of one of the "canonical chapter" traits as one of your flexi-traits. I would expect this as a theme going forward. I know they referenced CWE having the ability to take the current Ulthwe trait as one of the flexi-traits as well, which makes sense to me.

But thats not what DE needs to make the less playable units more playable, i understand that pattern, but if it wasnt working already redoing it witht he same thing isnt going to work again. A few minor changes and we could have had more playable units.

 Shadenuat wrote:
It's just a few. Craftworlds get 22 different traits, Drukhari probably have more too.

Obviously. It's hardly a "customizable" kabal if you have a choice of two traits out of a list of... two!

I'm hoping we still have the +6'' range option. As an Obsidian Rose player, I've come to rely on it a lot. I would have a hard time getting used to 18'' blasters and 12'' shredders.

Honestly I liked the look of the box. I collect Eldar, among others, but not "dark Eldar". This would have been a gateway moment.

But then I saw the price.

I had got two of the RoChaos box, double Karanak! But I won´t be getting this box. Sadly, If Banshees come in at over 25 quid a box (for 5) I won´t be getting more of them either. The decision to go to 5 Dire Avengers in a box turned me off Eldar originally. Thin old models should not have cost so much per figure.

Personally I feel that GW have missed an opportunity to get more people into Eldar Soup in this box. Price notwithstanding the two vehicle models for Craftworlders were a turnoff. The price though, is the absolute killer.

I doubt this will sell out like Shadowspear.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Marin wrote:


The some price is on spikerbits, 180 euros for the box is insane.

It has a codex in it, so...maybe?

It doesn't have the campaign book so you have to buy that separately increasing your total spending for all of this.

Laffin wrote:
Honestly I liked the look of the box. I collect Eldar, among others, but not "dark Eldar". This would have been a gateway moment.

But then I saw the price.

I had got two of the RoChaos box, double Karanak! But I won´t be getting this box. Sadly, If Banshees come in at over 25 quid a box (for 5) I won´t be getting more of them either. The decision to go to 5 Dire Avengers in a box turned me off Eldar originally. Thin old models should not have cost so much per figure.

Personally I feel that GW have missed an opportunity to get more people into Eldar Soup in this box. Price notwithstanding the two vehicle models for Craftworlders were a turnoff. The price though, is the absolute killer.

I doubt this will sell out like Shadowspear.

I found someone playing DE in my local group that wants to split the box. We were planing on getting two.. If its indeed 140 this may well change i need to speak with the dude once it goes on pre orders. I hope we can get a hefty discount... Thats a f$€"n outrage compared to shadowdpear which was all new kits.

Rules wise, unless you are playing verry narrative the aspect cw trait for extra damage on 6's in cc is very weak sauce and should realy maybe be a strategem. Thats because CC is just weak sauce in general. I just dont see building an army around it. Potentialy with the new power and court of the young king you could add 5 to charge rolls? Its solid but once your charge is done your stuff is dead meat once whatever left falls back and your t3 dudes get shot up by their chaff... so seems like a wierd thing to invest your army trait in..

Rerolling ones to wound on Wraiths though is interesting. I can see that working nice with some ds wraiths. With doom being a thing youd just doom whatever you are concentrating fire anyway. Also as said yo wound most stuff on 2's so unless you are attacking t8(which you would have doomed anyway) it seems of very little benefit.

Yes yes i havent seen all of the rules... obviously. before the "wyou havent seen all the rules" comments drop consider this:
They usualy preview the best rules so im just not expecting there being anything better than current alitoic.

The box sales price if true leave a sour taste...

The craftworld rules though seem a bit underwhelming but with 22 im.holding off making a judgement. Im hoping it will breathe some fresh air into the eldar army.

I think the shuri weapon traits strong. I hope they do something for spinners weapons. Would have been nice if the shuri weapon trait extended to spinners to build some spinner spider armies. But as such with the 12" caveat the trait lends itself to guardian bombs+doom making that an even more prevailent choice which is already played to death combination.

 Eldarsif wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Marin wrote:


The some price is on spikerbits, 180 euros for the box is insane.

It has a codex in it, so...maybe?

It doesn't have the campaign book so you have to buy that separately increasing your total spending for all of this.

Blood of the Phoneix does come with a 40 page campaign book. The separate release "Phoenix Rising" is a 80 page book with additional content. I'm assuming its an expanded version of Blood of the Phoenix.

no blood of the pheonix will be completely differnt. still 40 pages is pretty beefy. by comparison shadowspear and tooth and claw where 22 pages. So there will proably be some decent new lore in the box

A lot of people are talking about the models in the box being poor choices, and that is totally fair- you can't start an army without troops, so it's not a starter, and the models aren't the most competitive in the list. Fair.

But it's a campaign box; the models in it are chosen for the role they play in the story. I get that everyone wanted a competitive battle box, or that something for the new player to the faction would have been more useful. But this box was never going to be that, and neither are any of the other boxes coming for PA. Some will be more competitive than this, some probably less; some will be better for new players and some less so.

But ALL of the models will be a part of the ongoing story. That is what a campaign box is designed for.

Personally, I love the idea, and I'd like to buy this and the book to go with it. But Sisters are just around the corner, and I'm not sure I can afford both. The book, I think is a no brainer- it will bring me a ton of new reading and list hammer to play with, and I can integrate some of the material into our existing campaign.

The box though... I'll wait to see how it clocks in at my FLGS, and if I think I can swing it, I will. With new models in it, the box will continue to be available for a while.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I was really looking forward to these but now i'm not. Overall it doesnt help what it needs to help and keeps the Kabal venom spam top meta.

The Kabal ones just make Venoms and Flyers strong (they already are strong now), Venoms with +3" movement and +1D, Flyers as wych with +1 wound, and no one is taking the coven b.c coven is unplayable with PoF.
Kabal already has +3" movement, that SHOULD have been for the Wyches (it would make Hellions and Reavers more playable), the +1 invul SHOULD be able to take with another trait b.c its a terrible trait alone (or it should just have been +1 to all invuls always if it was stand alone).


Why does Kabal get +3" movement? They already have that, give the +3" to Wych fly units would have been amazing, Reavers/Hellions with +3" base, meaning a drug on Hellions for +5" movement, that is something i would have done, no Kabal, they already have flawed skull. Give us something "Different".
Over all these are bad IMO, it doesnt help the weak units and just makes the strong units stay strong, it doesnt help the units in the correct ways either.


Coven outside of FW doesnt get a Ravager with its Keyword nor the Flyers (and i dont trust FW right now, i'm ignoring the Reaper/Tantalus b.c Legends), if the new obsessions and keywords helps coven with Raider+Grots, like +3" movement and disembarked after moving +charge, then yes i will give up PoF, but they made no attempt to change play styles or help out units so far.

I really hope these new obsessions can be used for each other and not as a subfaction wall.

This is pretty much a fraction of the traits. These will be combined with others to make the full trait.

Apple fox wrote:
That is going to be a crazy price in Aud, Or they will work out to give us a bit of a discount ?

My FLGS has hinted at $290 AUD which is consistent with the likes of Shadowspear etc..

PenitentJake wrote:
A lot of people are talking about the models in the box being poor choices, and that is totally fair- you can't start an army without troops, so it's not a starter, and the models aren't the most competitive in the list. Fair.

But it's a campaign box; the models in it are chosen for the role they play in the story. I get that everyone wanted a competitive battle box, or that something for the new player to the faction would have been more useful. But this box was never going to be that, and neither are any of the other boxes coming for PA. Some will be more competitive than this, some probably less; some will be better for new players and some less so.

But ALL of the models will be a part of the ongoing story. That is what a campaign box is designed for.

Personally, I love the idea, and I'd like to buy this and the book to go with it. But Sisters are just around the corner, and I'm not sure I can afford both. The book, I think is a no brainer- it will bring me a ton of new reading and list hammer to play with, and I can integrate some of the material into our existing campaign.

The box though... I'll wait to see how it clocks in at my FLGS, and if I think I can swing it, I will. With new models in it, the box will continue to be available for a while.

Most people expected to get full 10 man squad of banshees/incubi, but personally i was going to get the book on decent price.
Wake the death was half the price, shadowspear was 35 pounds cheaper with all the new models and dark imperium was like 95 pounds.
There is no justification of that price, i think GW are losing their mind because of their recent success.

Marin wrote:

There is no justification of that price, i think GW are losing their mind because of their recent success.

Well...if the rumored prices are true (I'll use Canadian dollars, so $280 CAD), the value of the contents - using the old finecast model prices at that for Jain/Banshee/Incubi/Drazhar, plus a $30 book is $405 CAD. Now you can be sure that Jain/Draz will sell for 50 CAD at retail (not 30 CAD), so closer to $445 CAD. So the contents are costed at 63% retail of all the separate stuff, and I haven't counted the dice or cards yet.

And yes, this assumes that the new plastic Banshees/Incubi are 50 CAD for 5 (price for finecast, though you get 6 banshees at that price), and I think we'll be lucky if they're 40 CAD for 5. So you could ball-part the value a bit lower, maybe, but the collection is still going to be at least 30% off buying them separate. Has anyone priced it out in USD or GBP?

 NurglesR0T wrote:

Apple fox wrote:
That is going to be a crazy price in Aud, Or they will work out to give us a bit of a discount ?

My FLGS has hinted at $290 AUD which is consistent with the likes of Shadowspear etc..

Crazy price >.< Think i may just ignore it. Seems classic we giving you a great deal on mostly nothing you want.

Maybe if they put better units in there, and priced it as an actual starter.

Well, I've heard that the price in Euro is 180, not 130 as expected in the first place.

 John Prins wrote:

Marin wrote:

There is no justification of that price, i think GW are losing their mind because of their recent success.

Well...if the rumored prices are true (I'll use Canadian dollars, so $280 CAD), the value of the contents - using the old finecast model prices at that for Jain/Banshee/Incubi/Drazhar, plus a $30 book is $405 CAD. Now you can be sure that Jain/Draz will sell for 50 CAD at retail (not 30 CAD), so closer to $445 CAD. So the contents are costed at 63% retail of all the separate stuff, and I haven't counted the dice or cards yet.

And yes, this assumes that the new plastic Banshees/Incubi are 50 CAD for 5 (price for finecast, though you get 6 banshees at that price), and I think we'll be lucky if they're 40 CAD for 5. So you could ball-part the value a bit lower, maybe, but the collection is still going to be at least 30% off buying them separate. Has anyone priced it out in USD or GBP?

Jain Zar 25 Draznar 25
Banshees 25 Incubi 25
Falcon 32.5 Venom 20
Vyper 20 Scourges 17.5
Hellions 17.5

102.5 105

Assuming new characters will increase with 10 pounds, the some as the new primaris heroes.
Banshees and Incubi are counted the some, because you are getting one less model and they are already priced the some range as marines.

Sum 207.5 pounds. So -32% discount, but ofcourse you get alot of models you maybe don`t want.
For instance only the marine part of the shadow spear coast the some as the full box.

30 Eliminators (3 models)
30 Infiltrators - maybe more because you were getting 10 in the box.
20 Captain in Phobos armor
20 Librarian in Phobos armor
20 Lieutenant in Phobos
30 Suppressors - still not sold as a kit (3 models)

So i stand corrected you get models only for the SM side equal to 150 pounds, assuming the CSM coast is relatively the some - 300 pounds of models.
It`s 65% discount for a bunch of new models, only the SM side have 19 new models and FULL eldar box have only 12.

I`m starting to think GW started to hate aeldar players.

They didn't start to hate eldar players, I don't think GW hate any of the players. I think they are just crazy with the greed and really this makes me start to sweat the sisters release which I'm holding out for.

Sorry to see it happen Eldar players, my love goes out to you. I really don't like the new model hostage taking GW seems so found of and with the box cost, I doubt they'll even be that great of a discount pieced out as I'm sure they will know what models everyone wants.

Edit: I hope the PA book comes out great at least.

AngryAngel80 wrote:
They didn't start to hate eldar players, I don't think GW hate any of the players. I think they are just crazy with the greed and really this makes me start to sweat the sisters release which I'm holding out for.

Sorry to see it happen Eldar players, my love goes out to you. I really don't like the new model hostage taking GW seems so found of and with the box cost, I doubt they'll even be that great of a discount pieced out as I'm sure they will know what models everyone wants.

Edit: I hope the PA book comes out great at least.

New model hostage format? GW's been making models unique to their stuff for a long time now. 4th edition had some terrain that was unique to it. 5th edition had a number of Ork units unique. 6th edition had the CSM chosen and a few Cultist sculpts. Dark Imperium has a number of HQs.

One just hopes the Banshee's have more in common with Space Marine Infiltrators then Space Marine supressors.

You are right in your calculations Marin, there is an image (of GW to suppliers announcing the prices of Blood of the Phoenix) and they claim the discount is a 30% over normal stand alone price of kits.

 Lord Perversor wrote:

Spoiler:

Marin wrote:

 John Prins wrote:

Marin wrote:

There is no justification of that price, i think GW are losing their mind because of their recent success.

Well...if the rumored prices are true (I'll use Canadian dollars, so $280 CAD), the value of the contents - using the old finecast model prices at that for Jain/Banshee/Incubi/Drazhar, plus a $30 book is $405 CAD. Now you can be sure that Jain/Draz will sell for 50 CAD at retail (not 30 CAD), so closer to $445 CAD. So the contents are costed at 63% retail of all the separate stuff, and I haven't counted the dice or cards yet.

And yes, this assumes that the new plastic Banshees/Incubi are 50 CAD for 5 (price for finecast, though you get 6 banshees at that price), and I think we'll be lucky if they're 40 CAD for 5. So you could ball-part the value a bit lower, maybe, but the collection is still going to be at least 30% off buying them separate. Has anyone priced it out in USD or GBP?

Jain Zar 25 Draznar 25
Banshees 25 Incubi 25
Falcon 32.5 Venom 20
Vyper 20 Scourges 17.5
Hellions 17.5

102.5 105

Assuming new characters will increase with 10 pounds, the some as the new primaris heroes.
Banshees and Incubi are counted the some, because you are getting one less model and they are already priced the some range as marines.

Sum 207.5 pounds. So -32% discount, but ofcourse you get alot of models you maybe don`t want.
For instance only the marine part of the shadow spear coast the some as the full box.

30 Eliminators (3 models)
30 Infiltrators - maybe more because you were getting 10 in the box.
20 Captain in Phobos armor
20 Librarian in Phobos armor
20 Lieutenant in Phobos
30 Suppressors - still not sold as a kit (3 models)

So i stand corrected you get models only for the SM side equal to 150 pounds, assuming the CSM coast is relatively the some - 300 pounds of models.
It`s 65% discount for a bunch of new models, only the SM side have 19 new models and FULL eldar box have only 12.

I`m starting to think GW started to hate aeldar players.

You are right in your calculations Marin, there is an image (of GW to suppliers announcing the prices of Blood of the Phoenix) and they claim the discount is a 30% over normal stand alone price of kits.

Seems true.
The boxset is 180 € while the value of the content is about 270 € (without the written stuff).

PenitentJake wrote:
A lot of people are talking about the models in the box being poor choices, and that is totally fair- you can't start an army without troops, so it's not a starter, and the models aren't the most competitive in the list. Fair.

But it's a campaign box; the models in it are chosen for the role they play in the story. I get that everyone wanted a competitive battle box, or that something for the new player to the faction would have been more useful. But this box was never going to be that, and neither are any of the other boxes coming for PA. Some will be more competitive than this, some probably less; some will be better for new players and some less so.

But ALL of the models will be a part of the ongoing story. That is what a campaign box is designed for.

This is a very romantic notion, but the fluff/campaigns are designed in order to support the minitatures in the box, not the other way around.

Well you see, when I see Falcons and Vypers, I get romantic. I remember that time, in a campaign long ago, when I fell in love with a group of rascally scourges. Then, we wined, dined and shared that thing called, the love train. That was before, the hellions arrived, brutes to the man, and we ran, we ran so far away, had to get away. That was when we hoped a ride with a passing vyper, and eventually a kindly falcon gave us a lift into town.

Those were the days I tell ya, you never have friends like that again, like the ones when you were young. So snatch up that box today ya'll ! The cost feels high, but those memories, they're worth twice the price.

 BertBert wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:
A lot of people are talking about the models in the box being poor choices, and that is totally fair- you can't start an army without troops, so it's not a starter, and the models aren't the most competitive in the list. Fair.

But it's a campaign box; the models in it are chosen for the role they play in the story. I get that everyone wanted a competitive battle box, or that something for the new player to the faction would have been more useful. But this box was never going to be that, and neither are any of the other boxes coming for PA. Some will be more competitive than this, some probably less; some will be better for new players and some less so.

But ALL of the models will be a part of the ongoing story. That is what a campaign box is designed for.

This is a very romantic notion, but the fluff/campaigns are designed in order to support the minitatures in the box, not the other way around.

Yep, basically they're trying to build a box set that will sell at a discount but with models that have had a price increase in recent months and with no clear idea who they are trying to sell it to. On the Drukhari side of things there's no troops making it a bad starter, Hellions are amazing models but amongst the worst units in the game so at this point every Drukhari player out there has a few collecting dust on a shelf whilst Scourge are a good unit but every Drukhari player has loads of them already for use in game and because they make excellent conversion fodder (I have 40 Scourge at the moment, I can't even make use of that many). The Venom's the only thing that people may want more of but even then, I've got 6 already, I don't need a 7th.

Craftwowrlds are even worse. Really long time Craftworld players will already have enough Vypers and Falcons for a lifetime, but both units no longer have a useful role in the army (too many other things can do the same more efficiently) and thats it. No troops, no nothing other than the new plastics.

I'm guessing this boxset will be a failure and struggle to sell because nobody at GW thought carefully enough about who they are trying to sell it to.

Dunno how they justify a 33% price increase compared to shadowspear with this model selection.
I'm not very optimistic for the success of this box and it's too bad since it seems a decent amount of people would have bought the new miniatures if they could.

dhallnet wrote:
Dunno how they justify a 33% price increase compared to shadowspear with this model selection.
I'm not very optimistic for the success of this box and it's too bad since it seems a decent amount of people would have bought the new miniatures if they could.

Indeed, I would be in the boat if the price were 130€.

With a 10% discount you get Free Falcon, Vyper, Hellions, Scourges compare to normal Retail, its 33% (without discount) its $130USD cheaper than retail (Falcon 55, Vyper 35, Hellion 30, Scourge 30, totaling 150, with the 23 off for the 10% thats $153USD of free models).

So really you are only paying for the 4 unit units and the venom, everything else is free.

Take that information how you want, just i am a numbers person, so i need to see all the numbers before i buy.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
With a 10% discount you get Free Falcon, Vyper, Hellions, Scourges compare to normal Retail, its 33% (without discount) its $130USD cheaper than retail (Falcon 55, Vyper 35, Hellion 30, Scourge 30, totaling 150, with the 23 off for the 10% thats $153USD of free models).

So really you are only paying for the 4 unit units and the venom, everything else is free.

Take that information how you want, just i am a numbers person, so i need to see all the numbers before i buy.

Or you can get 2x banshees/incubi and jain zar/draznar for half of the price to get the full squad and skip on the two units you don`t need.
Scourges, Venoms and Hellions are sold by retailers super cheap, you save 70 pounds for units you want/need.

I think anyone that doesnt factor in discount from 3rd party retailers and the second hand market is not realy honestly representing the value of the box.

You can buy those bnos for more than 33% if you look hard enough. I got a bnos scourges for converting for £12... ya know ? On paper gw prices it sure looks like a good deal.

The reality is once you factor in the 3rd party retailers and their 20% discount and the knock on effect on the second hand market its not a good deal at all. For example the wraith models are everywhere on ebay nos
Due to them being in apoc and start collecting boxes they are saturated on the second hand market. Why pay £32.50 for a WL if you can get it for £20 or less by doing one quick ebay search.

However you dress it its a hefty tax on 2 new kits for your faction be that DE or CWE. It just is.

dhallnet wrote:
Dunno how they justify a 33% price increase compared to shadowspear with this model selection.
I'm not very optimistic for the success of this box and it's too bad since it seems a decent amount of people would have bought the new miniatures if they could.

The combination of a "leftovers" box and the price is what truly kills it. At 230 USD, I would expect to have 10 banshees and 10 incubi instead of 5 of each. And for whats actually in the box, I'd expect to pay ~180 USD rather than 230.

They chose to squeeze the customers from both ends by trying to clear inventory and also charging a premium for it. I don't see how this thing is gonna sell either