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Psychocouac wrote:
Hello guys,

Some news from Kikasstou on the french warhammer forum:

For Black Templars:

They'll be in the Psychic Awakening Tome 2 against Chaos. You'll have all the rules to play them and with some extra: enhanced doctrine, BT litany table, new warlord traits, relics and stratagems. No primaris Hellbrecht or Grimaldus but some rule change.



- For 1 CP the turn when you disembark from your crusader LR: no overwatch and -1 to hit in close combat.

- New relic: 4++ within 3" for 1 round.

- New warlord trait: +1 advance and charge.

- New Stratagem: on 2+, you can't disengage from close combat.

I don't suppose there's been any information on rules in the first book (the Eldar vs DE one)?

Psychocouac wrote:
Update:

Tome 1 : Asuryani vs. Drukhari (october 2019)

Tome 2 : Chaos vs BT (end of november)

Tome 3 : Blood Angels vs. Tyranides (before 2020)

Tome 4 : SW vs Ork (somewhere after)

Called it.

*cries in Necron*

*Condescending pats to the ancient enemy*
There-there. At least you won't be used as punching bags for Marines.

I think all the marines being first might make sense. With the marine codex, it may be a way to give all the other flavours (there are a lot of flavours) their extra rules to keep up with vanilla Marines early without needing to do a whole codex for them.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I think all the marines being first might make sense. With the marine codex, it may be a way to give all the other flavours (there are a lot of flavours) their extra rules to keep up with vanilla Marines early without needing to do a whole codex for them.

Yeah, I'm sure there's a bit of motivation to get all the marines unified. The question is... will these Psychic awakening factions also get updated codexes at the same time? I'm thinking not...

drbored wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I think all the marines being first might make sense. With the marine codex, it may be a way to give all the other flavours (there are a lot of flavours) their extra rules to keep up with vanilla Marines early without needing to do a whole codex for them.

Yeah, I'm sure there's a bit of motivation to get all the marines unified. The question is... will these Psychic awakening factions also get updated codexes at the same time? I'm thinking not...

From what the French dude has been saying then yes, because he said the Eldar are getting a bunch of new rules, relics, traits, etc for the Craftworlds. But we’ll have to see if it all comes true.

pm713 wrote:
Yup. Demons appeared and killed them because only they get to kill the Blood Angels. You know that sounds like super bad fanfic now I read that back.

Voss wrote:
Yep. The BA's Greater Daemon adversary jumped up and down on the entire hive fleet (somehow... despite the daemon arriving on one moon, and the tyranids were on both moons and Baal itself, and in space), made a giant rune of their skulls to mock the BA and... peaced out. Effectively saving the chapter and all its surviving successors at the cost of one moon.

That's what I thought.

So... why are we back to BA vs 'Nids. Are they just retconning the end of that campaign for them?

Just seemed like a great way to set up the eventual return of Angron + perhaps a World Eater book in the future (with redone 'Zerkers, new 'Zerker Termies, and a few other odds and ends).

One thing that seems odd about these rumors is the "X vs Y" element. I could certainly see it in some cases but at the same time it seems unlikely, there's no reason for example blood angels vs Tyranids couldn't be "blood angels and guard vs tyranids" with a big rules dump for blood angels and tyranids with guard in the mix as well.

I could see this release schedule working,

taking a guess based on this schedule..

Chaos Vs Black Templar will give us expanded rules for another chaos legion (see what Black Legion got in vigilus ablaze) it's possiable that we won't see any new minis for this. although GW still needs to release the master of posession in a clam pack. This would be the ideal window for that.
Blood Angels Vs Tyranids IMHO the timing for this seems... off however GW typically releases some sort of "Value pack" in december, could be they're gonna experiment with a christmas boxed set?

SW vs Orks. we've been eharing this'll be a bxoed set, my guess is it'll be a primaris force lead by a primarisified rangar agaisnt a whole new range of Orks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


So... why are we back to BA vs 'Nids. Are they just retconning the end of that campaign for them?

I imagine we'll find out that well the main tendril aimed at Baal was destroyed there are still a number of splinterfleets in the general vacinity and the angels have been cleaning them up

BrianDavion wrote:
Chaos Vs Black Templar will give us expanded rules for another chaos legion (see what Black Legion got in vigilus ablaze) it's possiable that we won't see any new minis for this. although GW still needs to release the master of posession in a clam pack. This would be the ideal window for that.

Khorne-willing they'll give us plastic multi-part Oblits, Venom Crawlers and Greater Possessed, but probably yeah, Master of Possession.

BrianDavion wrote:
Blood Angels Vs Tyranids IMHO the timing for this seems... off however GW typically releases some sort of "Value pack" in december, could be they're gonna experiment with a christmas boxed set?

"Campaign Packs" themed for Psychic Awakening for X-Mas? Do an Eldar one, a DEldar one, Chaos, Woofs, Orks, Tyranids, etc. That could work, but it's a lot of boxes and nothing AoS, which wouldn't make sense.

BrianDavion wrote:
I imagine we'll find out that well the main tendril aimed at Baal was destroyed there are still a number of splinterfleets in the general vacinity and the angels have been cleaning them up

Which would be a bit of a cop-out IMO. A great threat to Baal, so big that Dante recalled all successors to fight (even the one they all thought had turned to Chaos), most of them were nearly wiped out, with some desperate stands leading to the deaths of multiple Chapter Masters until the sudden intervention of Chaos saved them all... but nah, 'Nids are back. LOL!

That would be lazy.

Plus I want World Eaters...

 Shadenuat wrote:
*Condescending pats to the ancient enemy*
There-there. At least you won't be used as punching bags for Marines.

Well no quarantee we won't. But maybe we are used as punching bags for ad mech instead. Either way punching bags for some imperium

IanVanCheese wrote:
*cries in Necron*

01000011 01110010 01111001 01101001 01101110 01100111
Translate from Binary

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I imagine we'll find out that well the main tendril aimed at Baal was destroyed there are still a number of splinterfleets in the general vacinity and the angels have been cleaning them up

Which would be a bit of a cop-out IMO. A great threat to Baal, so big that Dante recalled all successors to fight (even the one they all thought had turned to Chaos), most of them were nearly wiped out, with some desperate stands leading to the deaths of multiple Chapter Masters until the sudden intervention of Chaos saved them all... but nah, 'Nids are back. LOL!

That would be lazy.

Am I the only one who thought that the involvement of Khorne at all was incredibly lazy?

Everyone: Ohh gak dawg BA are really on the ropes here! And from a Xeno faction no less!
GW: A filthy xeno dare lay his filthy claws on my mArINES?! Khorne - get in there and fix this mess, the Xenos aren’t a real threat, not in this story.

Plus I want World Eaters...

I think this is the truth of it.

If I see any more chaos releases this quickly I’m going to vomit as the realisation that we are simply playing 30k with 40k rules kicks in.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Am I the only one who thought that the involvement of Khorne at all was incredibly lazy?

Everyone: Ohh gak dawg BA are really on the ropes here! And from a Xeno faction no less!
GW: A filthy xeno dare lay his filthy claws on my mArINES?! Khorne - get in there and fix this mess, the Xenos aren’t a real threat, not in this story.

You're not all all wrong to think that. It was lazy. But then retconning it or going "But the 'Nids weren't really defeated!" is even lazier.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
If I see any more chaos releases this quickly I’m going to vomit as the realisation that we are simply playing 30k with 40k rules kicks in.

That's an exaggeration if ever I saw one. 'Chaos' in 30K are basically carbon copies of non-Chaos Marines. At least in 40k they are different all the way through (outside of the obvious similarities of still being Marines).

And what's wrong with wanting an update to an ancient Berzerker kit, and an expansion of the World Eater line akin to the expansions 1KSons and DG got?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You're not all all wrong to think that. It was lazy. But then retconning it or going "But the 'Nids weren't really defeated!" is even lazier.

Maybe like, equally as lazy? Really if this is their intention they should have just held BA on the ropes until this campaign I think, unless Khorne are going to play a big part.

That's an exaggeration if ever I saw one. 'Chaos' in 30K are basically carbon copies of non-Chaos Marines. At least in 40k they are different all the way through (outside of the obvious similarities of still being Marines).

Yea I guess my point is that 40k already feels like 'Mariners vs Spikey Mariners' with the number of releases they get, and the fact that the lore in moves forward when the two are involved.

And what's wrong with wanting an update to an ancient Berzerker kit, and an expansion of the World Eater line akin to the expansions 1KSons and DG got?

Nothing wrong with wanting old kits updated. I'd argue that the specialist legions don't need their own codex books or expansion models but that's another conversation in and of itself.

I think the reason I dislike the constant 'we want WE/EC' from certain people in the community (not necessarily you and not necessarily this forum by the way, this isn't aimed at you personally) is because CSM have literally just come off the back of a massive release. Its time for another faction to have a go in the sun. Some factions have had nothing since 8th dropped in terms of new models. They should be the priority for me, before CSM, EC, WE or SM.

tneva82 wrote:
Unlikely they will go to bin. 8th ed codexes will be fairly sure to work in 9th ed

I thought that at End Times. Look what happened there.

Calculate number of total resets. 40k has had 2 total resets. 3 and 8th. 4,5,6 and 7 codexes worked. Fb had just 1 total reset(6th) plus death of entire game

Total reset invalidating previous codexes is very rare. It took 2 decades or so between the 2 for 40k. No reason to think they do same 2 editions in the row.

Honestly if Berserker Marines do get updates I want them to get the option to use a couple of Eviscerators in the squad.

Cone on GW. You maybe heard my suggestions when we had the new Chapter Tactics revealed. Hear me on this one.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Honestly if Berserker Marines do get updates I want them to get the option to use a couple of Eviscerators in the squad.

Nah it'll be some double-handed chainaxe called a "Bloodchain Skullslayer" or something, and each squad can get 2 of them but there will only be 1 in the box. And the box will have 8 models rather than 10 and somehow still cost more than the 10-man 1KSons box.

So, while I’m pleasantly surprised and happy about the proposed timescale of the releases, I’m a little bored of the contents/matchups if I’m honest.

If we get a book a month/every 6 weeks then we’ll soon be back “up to date” with everything.

Matchups… Personally I’d have taken a break from the “age old” matchups and allowed it to expand the lore a bit more. For example, I’d have gone –
Asuryani v Drukhari, still kinda makes sense as things have been building to an edge between them and the Ynnari.
BT v T’au. A Crusader Host “stumbling” into the area of space now occupied by the lost T’au expansion fleet would have been so much more interesting than, “oh, Chaos”.
Blood Angels v Daemons. A little predictable, but, one that makes narrative sense as a “next step”. Khorne can now have his fight and second chance to turn the BA to Chaos whilst they are cut off from the main Imperium. Who knows, maybe the new Primaris Marines have more of a potential to be swayed/have a more extreme reaction to the Red Thirst.
Necrons v Nids. We know there are Necrons nearby to Baal, this could be the secondary battle, off the back of the BA victory. Nids will still be in the surrounding areas, but they wouldn’t just be sat there waiting for the BA to chase them down.
SW v Admech. Heretical, but we all know/expect another schism on Mars to happen in the near future. The “Executioners” could be sent in and herald the creation of the Dark Mech.
Custodes v GSC. Cause a bit of an issue on Terra beyond, “A mini eye of terror opened underneath the palace, but, it’s ok nothing happens”.
DA v Chaos. Rise of the Fallen, Return of the Lion, Revenge against Tzeentch.
Grey Knights v Thousand Sons. Psychic Might vs Psychic Might for once, on a relatively “even” level. Balancing the two factions against each other, but with different focuses.

Unfortunately, this then leaves DW v Orks and D. Guard v Guard. Not the most inspiring of matchups or ideas but needs must.

Now, I can’t see any of the above actually happening, as GW won’t move away from the “Classic” rivalries, even at the expensive of creativity.

If it is 1v1 all the way through, then we’re looking at 10 books and a “completion” date of July 2020 at the earliest. Likely pushing September/October.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Honestly if Berserker Marines do get updates I want them to get the option to use a couple of Eviscerators in the squad.

Nah it'll be some double-handed chainaxe called a "Bloodchain Skullslayer" or something, and each squad can get 2 of them but there will only be 1 in the box. And the box will have 8 models rather than 10 and somehow still cost more than the 10-man 1KSons box.

Probably but the option would be one of those things that just makes a lot of sense.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I think all the marines being first might make sense. With the marine codex, it may be a way to give all the other flavours (there are a lot of flavours) their extra rules to keep up with vanilla Marines early without needing to do a whole codex for them.

There is a lot of flavour indeed. Would be so much easier to make marines keep up with each other if we folded them all into a single codex!

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I think all the marines being first might make sense. With the marine codex, it may be a way to give all the other flavours (there are a lot of flavours) their extra rules to keep up with vanilla Marines early without needing to do a whole codex for them.

There is a lot of flavour indeed. Would be so much easier to make marines keep up with each other if we folded them all into a single codex!

Careful now, you're gonna get the whole "Muh Defwing and Furidreads" defenders in this thread!

I think the reason I dislike the constant 'we want WE/EC' from certain people in the community (not necessarily you and not necessarily this forum by the way, this isn't aimed at you personally) is because CSM have literally just come off the back of a massive release.

To be fair, Chaos players are still waiting for the release of the stuff from Shadowspear :

1) Obliterators (fingers crossed for a double kit allowing us to build either Obliterators or Mutilators).
2) Master of Possession.
3) Greater Possessed.
4) Venomcrawler.

I think this is mostly what Chaos is going to get during Psychic Awakening. Perhaps also a new Chaos Sorcerer because we have a rumour engine that looks like the old backpack from an old Chaos Sorcerer.

I don't expect any new major release for Chaos ala Vigilus.

BrianDavion wrote:

Blood Angels Vs Tyranids IMHO the timing for this seems... off however GW typically releases some sort of "Value pack" in december, could be they're gonna experiment with a christmas boxed set?

SW vs Orks. we've been eharing this'll be a bxoed set, my guess is it'll be a primaris force lead by a primarisified rangar agaisnt a whole new range of Orks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


So... why are we back to BA vs 'Nids. Are they just retconning the end of that campaign for them?

I imagine we'll find out that well the main tendril aimed at Baal was destroyed there are still a number of splinterfleets in the general vacinity and the angels have been cleaning them up

A clean up operation doesn't really warrant a campaign expansion - I think its more of a grudge match - either a Primaris Dante campaigns against the NIds or the Hive Mind goes after the Blood Angels again [haven't GW set up the fluff that the Hive Mind has a grudge against the BA -which is ridiculous]. Probably more like Dante discovers some new NId plot to foil..

If they release a value box for Nids and Eldar at Christmas my wallet might cry..

I think its easy to see how they might do this rate of release- a book and 2 kits/2 characters fits around other releases. They advance the story quickly over the next year for all the factions setting up for the next stage of 40k [more of a soft reset like they did for AoS 2].

Any Bangle v Nids matchup at this point will feel stale as hell. We all know Marines can't lose in these campaign books so this'll be the second Campaign book, and third major narrative event, featuring the Bangles where they beat the Nids. Even by 40k's 'Xenos always lose the event' standards that's just becoming ridiculous. Also I find a lot of the fluff around Nids and Marines ridiculous. We've got a Broodlord feeling fear against Gabriel Seth, Tigurius can read the Hive Mind's mind and now it has a literal personal beef against Dante. It really diminishes the Hive Mind that it seems more like some moody teen now rather than a vast, unknowable, unflappable alien intelligence that does not even perceive individual organisms as entities in their own right.

Then again Orks v Space Wolves is no different. They had Sanctus Reach already which was just Orks losing to Wolves and getting le classical 'but Chaos was the real foe all along' upstaged moment, so yet another supplement about the Orks losing to the Wolves is just tedious.

But I guess that's sorta the problem. Any of the matchups with the Marines is gonna feel tedious since basically every time the Marines are matched up with anyone they always win. I think the story fluff that comes with every single starter box featuring Marines since the game began ends in a Marine victory.

Kinda why I hope we get more matchups of just non-Marines against each other, like this Deldar and Craftworlds one. When Marines aren't involved you finally can actually be surprised at the outcome instead of being able to just say "marines win" and 9/10 times know you'll be right. Then again I'm still not ruling out Phoenix Rising literally just ending with a couple of Marines barging in and stomping Jain Zar and Drazhar flat with contemptuous ease.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I think all the marines being first might make sense. With the marine codex, it may be a way to give all the other flavours (there are a lot of flavours) their extra rules to keep up with vanilla Marines early without needing to do a whole codex for them.

It's almost as if you could have brought those special snowflake chapters in line (GK Excluded, they desperately need a ground up rewrite) with a slightly more expansive PDF rules update.

1) Give them access to the new strats from marine V2
2) give them CTs on all models
3) Give them Angels of Death
4) Give them the rules updates to various units (Chaplains, Demolishers, Gravy Armor)

You'd be done. BA, SW, DW, DA would all pretty much be at where they need to be barring points updates in CA.

The one special chapter that has deeper issues (Not having a second psychic discipline for the small unit-level guys, their special weapon list being crap, their force weapons being super samey, not having all the new primaris bandaids) is the one they're deciding not to update. Lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SkullzInfinity wrote:


But I guess that's sorta the problem. Any of the matchups with the Marines is gonna feel tedious since basically every time the Marines are matched up with anyone they always win. I think the story fluff that comes with every single starter box featuring Marines since the game began ends in a Marine victory.

In a sane game, you'd end all those stories with "And how did the battle turn out? You'll have to find out by playing...WARHAMMER 40,000!" and not

"whatever sad sack got saddled with the not-marines, here's some cool fluff of all your gak getting bodied. Enjoy the game, loser."

tneva82 wrote:
Unlikely they will go to bin. 8th ed codexes will be fairly sure to work in 9th ed

I've been playing long enough to look forward to the reset. 8th was the most streamlined and enjoyable when played out of the indexes. The sheer bloat and creep of all the books has dragged the game down.

Well you are out of luck. Reset isn't coming for years. More like over decade you can expect one. Maybe 13th edition

SkullzInfinity wrote:
Any Bangle v Nids matchup at this point will feel stale as hell. We all know Marines can't lose in these campaign books so this'll be the second Campaign book, and third major narrative event, featuring the Bangles where they beat the Nids. Even by 40k's 'Xenos always lose the event' standards that's just becoming ridiculous. Also I find a lot of the fluff around Nids and Marines ridiculous. We've got a Broodlord feeling fear against Gabriel Seth, Tigurius can read the Hive Mind's mind and now it has a literal personal beef against Dante. It really diminishes the Hive Mind that it seems more like some moody teen now rather than a vast, unknowable, unflappable alien intelligence that does not even perceive individual organisms as entities in their own right.

Then again Orks v Space Wolves is no different. They had Sanctus Reach already which was just Orks losing to Wolves and getting le classical 'but Chaos was the real foe all along' upstaged moment, so yet another supplement about the Orks losing to the Wolves is just tedious.

But I guess that's sorta the problem. Any of the matchups with the Marines is gonna feel tedious since basically every time the Marines are matched up with anyone they always win. I think the story fluff that comes with every single starter box featuring Marines since the game began ends in a Marine victory.

Kinda why I hope we get more matchups of just non-Marines against each other, like this Deldar and Craftworlds one. When Marines aren't involved you finally can actually be surprised at the outcome instead of being able to just say "marines win" and 9/10 times know you'll be right. Then again I'm still not ruling out Phoenix Rising literally just ending with a couple of Marines barging in and stomping Jain Zar and Drazhar flat with contemptuous ease.

This hits the nail right on the head. More conflicts that aren't Imperium vs X. Bonus points if you use lesser known subfactions. Let the EC do Slaaneshi things to Eldar. What happens when the Tau's naivety to let anyone join the Greater Good comes into conflict with Nurgle's loving embrace for ALL his followers? Some details on the Octarius War would show what both factions look like going full strength without needing Deus Ex Machina to save the loser. Harlequins are supposed to fight anything that is a threat to the Eldar's existence so why not show them fighting their ancient enemy the Necrons? Even the lesser known Imperials would be nice. What happens if the Genestealers infest a Forgeworld? Khorne doesn't care where the blood flows? The sisters will put that to the test with every single one of their actions glorifying the Emperor and most of their flame weapons not causing bloody wounds.

But no, we need to read more about how Rulesbloat Aquilaman and friends are saving the Imperium yet again through the power of Space Marines.

 DominayTrix wrote:

SkullzInfinity wrote:
Any Bangle v Nids matchup at this point will feel stale as hell. We all know Marines can't lose in these campaign books so this'll be the second Campaign book, and third major narrative event, featuring the Bangles where they beat the Nids. Even by 40k's 'Xenos always lose the event' standards that's just becoming ridiculous. Also I find a lot of the fluff around Nids and Marines ridiculous. We've got a Broodlord feeling fear against Gabriel Seth, Tigurius can read the Hive Mind's mind and now it has a literal personal beef against Dante. It really diminishes the Hive Mind that it seems more like some moody teen now rather than a vast, unknowable, unflappable alien intelligence that does not even perceive individual organisms as entities in their own right.

Then again Orks v Space Wolves is no different. They had Sanctus Reach already which was just Orks losing to Wolves and getting le classical 'but Chaos was the real foe all along' upstaged moment, so yet another supplement about the Orks losing to the Wolves is just tedious.

But I guess that's sorta the problem. Any of the matchups with the Marines is gonna feel tedious since basically every time the Marines are matched up with anyone they always win. I think the story fluff that comes with every single starter box featuring Marines since the game began ends in a Marine victory.

Kinda why I hope we get more matchups of just non-Marines against each other, like this Deldar and Craftworlds one. When Marines aren't involved you finally can actually be surprised at the outcome instead of being able to just say "marines win" and 9/10 times know you'll be right. Then again I'm still not ruling out Phoenix Rising literally just ending with a couple of Marines barging in and stomping Jain Zar and Drazhar flat with contemptuous ease.

This hits the nail right on the head. More conflicts that aren't Imperium vs X. Bonus points if you use lesser known subfactions. Let the EC do Slaaneshi things to Eldar. What happens when the Tau's naivety to let anyone join the Greater Good comes into conflict with Nurgle's loving embrace for ALL his followers? Some details on the Octarius War would show what both factions look like going full strength without needing Deus Ex Machina to save the loser. Harlequins are supposed to fight anything that is a threat to the Eldar's existence so why not show them fighting their ancient enemy the Necrons? Even the lesser known Imperials would be nice. What happens if the Genestealers infest a Forgeworld? Khorne doesn't care where the blood flows? The sisters will put that to the test with every single one of their actions glorifying the Emperor and most of their flame weapons not causing bloody wounds.

But no, we need to read more about how Rulesbloat Aquilaman and friends are saving the Imperium yet again through the power of Space Marines

Indeed. This is where I'm at also.

I mean we all know where we are with what happened to Calgar. The fact that he survived Abby just shows that GW will never kill off a Marine hero. They won't even allow them to lose.

I'm not being funny, but Ragnar should be no match for Ghazzy. Ghaz is our Primarch level character. Ragnar is not Primarch level. But we all know that if SW vs Orks is to be believed, Ghazzy will again be mugged off.

Why not have Ghaz kill Ragnar in cold blood, like he should, only for Russ to lose his gak and howl in on a space snowboard to give Ghaz a good kicking. Now that would be cool.

Actual repercussions. Actual permanent death of heroic marines. Then give them a Primarch as an appeasement.