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 H wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
Yeah. I think Tyranids would be a great plot point for a campaign. The problem is the writers. Think of the Tyranids like the Joker, "some men just want to watch the world burn". In this case its the galaxy. A foe with no motivation other than pure, total destruction.

I would tend to think of the Tyranid as Hobbesian "State of Nature" nightmares. That is, the terrifying state of "naturalistic" intentionality, bent on sole survival. I wouldn't, personally, give the Hive Mind a sociopathic bent, because, well, I wouldn't really care to either anthropomorphic something so "alien" but also, not dilute the naturalistic biological "evolutionary" horror of it. But that is me personally. I don't see Tyraids as "destruction" rather, another force of "differential" Order, one of less of a less human seeming "intentionality" and more of brute, evolutionary, biological determinism. That is, "survival of the fittest," taken it a nightmarish, brutal, extreme.

In that sense, well, they would be, to me, distinctly at odds with every other faction and I'd be OK with that. Then again, I am not a Tyranid player though.

The problem with this is that we already know through various stories that the Hive Mind is perfectly sentient and HAS attempted to communicate on occasions, both in a Black Library short story where a hive ship directly spoke to a librarian psychically and by using Zoats as infiltrating alien diplomats. There's also the fact that Tigurius has touched the Hive Mind and experienced a sliver of the malign intellect that drives the fleets.

Cronch wrote:
The ultimate problem with tyranids is that they cannot win. As in, if the writers acknowledge their victories, they will also have to acknowledge the fact that they cannot be stopped at that point with conventional means, because every time they win, they essentially regenerate their numbers and grow more troops, while every other faction loses troops, and cannot replace those losses as quickly.

So instead we have the tyranids be punching bags, which robs them, or any xenos, of any menace.

I think that is true to a point. However, clever writing and simply placing logistical realities on them, can mean that, say, Tyranids are horrific, fightening, terrifying, but not unstoppable.

Unfortunately, the sort of "rule of cool" laws that invade the general narrative, for various reasons, but mostly (to me) for marketing purposes, means that in the fluff everyone is unstoppable. Which means there is no logic of victory for anyone. Everyone is both an irresistible force and an immovable object, all at the same time. I don't think it must be like that, but it likely is the "easy button" way of uniting lore and marketing intentions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Platuan4th wrote:
The problem with this is that we already know through various stories that the Hive Mind is perfectly sentient and HAS attempted to communicate on occasions, both in a Black Library short story where a hive ship directly spoke to a librarian psychically and by using Zoats as infiltrating alien diplomats. There's also the fact that Tigurius has touched the Hive Mind and experienced a sliver of the malign intellect that drives the fleets.

Well, I do realize that my personal interpretation will be incompatible with already established lore to some degree.

But it wasn't really my aim to say that the Hive Mind has no actual intentionality, in the sense of not being able to communicate, or reason, but I do think it is a little silly to apply "malice" to it. Is a lion's stance malicious with respect to a gazelle? Well, actually, yeah, maybe it is, to the gazelle. Actually, I think it's better to ask, is a lion's stance malicious with respect to a hyena? There again, actually, I think yes, from the hyena's standpoint. From the lion's own standpoint, it is perfectly reasonable to not consider either the gazelle or the hyena as a "peer."

But I don't think malicious stance equals a sociopathic stance, per se. The Hive Mind could simply see hatred as the direct and simple path toward it's aim of being the sole fittest living thing left at the end (of everything). Being empathetic is only advantageous when once can expect it to be reciprocated. Considering the 40k universe, I think the Hive Mind is wise to not expect that at all, instead taking the stance that it is far "safer" if everything simple is One (a part of the Hive Mind).

 H wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
Yeah. I think Tyranids would be a great plot point for a campaign. The problem is the writers. Think of the Tyranids like the Joker, "some men just want to watch the world burn". In this case its the galaxy. A foe with no motivation other than pure, total destruction.

I would tend to think of the Tyranid as Hobbesian "State of Nature" nightmares. That is, the terrifying state of "naturalistic" intentionality, bent on sole survival. I wouldn't, personally, give the Hive Mind a sociopathic bent, because, well, I wouldn't really care to either anthropomorphic something so "alien" but also, not dilute the naturalistic biological "evolutionary" horror of it. But that is me personally. I don't see Tyraids as "destruction" rather, another force of "differential" Order, one of less of a less human seeming "intentionality" and more of brute, evolutionary, biological determinism. That is, "survival of the fittest," taken it a nightmarish, brutal, extreme.
.

It isn't 'survival of the fittest' at all. There is no longevity, breeding, or passing on of genes (genestealers as an ill-fitting aside). A tyranid organism is purpose built with no propagation or real expectation of survival (the fleshborer beetles for example, have an active lifespan of seconds). An organism that worked fine for millennia can be tossed out in an instant when no longer needed, and recycled into something new- the long term survival of the new or old organism doesn't matter at all. Neither does the 'fittness' of an organism. If it dies, the hive fleet can just produce new ones.

The hive fleet build tools fit to purpose, and that's to eat more. Its rather actively impractical, since farming has far more prospects for long term survival than eating literally everything and shooting all the survivors across the void between galaxies. Produce more biomass or gamble that there will be food at the other end of thousands of years (assuming you survive the journey at all). Its rather stupid, actually. If the tyranids were someone's idea of a biological terraforming weapon gone amuck (ie, at the end they produce stable planets of a certain type, but they ate their creators and turn planets into breeding nests to spread), they'd be far less silly.

There actually was an Epic campaign called Shadowsword, a whole book where the Raven Guard company operating on a mission was ensnared by an Eldar trap and wiped out to a man.

Voss wrote:
It isn't 'survival of the fittest' at all. There is no longevity, breeding, or passing on of genes (genestealers as an ill-fitting aside). A tyranid organism is purpose built with no propagation or real expectation of survival (the fleshborer beetles for example, have an active lifespan of seconds). An organism that worked fine for millennia can be tossed out in an instant when no longer needed, and recycled into something new- the long term survival of the new or old organism doesn't matter at all. Neither does the 'fittness' of an organism. If it dies, the hive fleet can just produce new ones.

Hmm, well, yes, but that is if we take each Tyraid "form" as a reproductive unit. Which, while I don't know all that much about Tyranid biology, I don't think they are. Instead, Tyraids are, to me, almost haploid, in the sense that the Hive Mind is the genetic "unit" itself, each Tyranid form being only a particular functional part. Those parts exist solely for "function" and not reproduction. In the end, the function of any and all forms is simply the continued survival and propagation of the entire Tyranid Hive Mind, not maintenance of any "individual form." Granted, this is some "fuzzy" biology, but we are in a sci-fi universe, filled with "fuzzy" physics and so on, so I don't think it would be terrible.

Voss wrote:
The hive fleet build tools fit to purpose, and that's to eat more. Its rather actively impractical, since farming has far more prospects for long term survival than eating literally everything and shooting all the survivors across the void between galaxies. Produce more biomass or gamble that there will be food at the other end of thousands of years (assuming you survive the journey at all). Its rather stupid, actually. If the tyranids were someone's idea of a biological terraforming weapon gone amuck (ie, at the end they produce stable planets of a certain type, but they ate their creators and turn planets into breeding nests to spread), they'd be far less silly.

Well, I do agree, but notions of farming at not only at odds with the entire thematic setting on 40k, that survival is predicated on violence. We simply must concede something, or else we have no place to start. I do think there is likely numerous ways to make Tyranids (and every other Xeno race) far less silly, but I think there is almost no chance it would be done, especially now, with the moralistic flattening the setting seems to be undergoing.

SInce 40k is an "eternal war" setting, I don't think it needs to be the case that anyone needs to finally win, just have losses and wins eventually form stalemates of sorts.

Farming is more practical for long term survival, but at present we don't really know the Tyranids real purpose. Thus far their operations have focused around powerful Hive Fleets striking deep into the Galaxy, consuming worlds in a quick manner of harvesting all bio and much mineral mass and then moving on.

They've also shown tactical awareness as some hive fleets fighting demon forces have had other fleets consume and predigest worlds, leaving them behind to be fed on by the demonic fighting fleet (since demons don't leave behind biomass when killed). It's also been used to try and get around Imperial methods of burning worlds in advance to try and starve a hive fleet out.

We've also seen them starting to construct a single planetary sized structure, for what purpose we've no idea. Furthermore its the only time we've seen them properly entrench themselves.



Tyranids are an enigma and we've no real understanding of them nor their motivations. In many ways I hope we never do, its nice to see facets of their thinking and approach, but I think they'd be weaker if we got a full on breakdown of them.

Also when talking and thinking of the Hive Mind its important to note that the Imperial reports might be wrong. One Imperial might speak to the Hive Mind, but they've no real way to verify if what they spoke to was the Mind itself; or a simple element of it. It might even have been a single organism pretending; or presenting itself as such. A Norn Queen likely could achieve it with ease.




Interesting to note though that whilst they are the most alien of all the xenos factions, they are also somewhat human too. Extreme consumption of raw resources before moving into the next site is a classic trait of human activity when left unchecked and without strict forethought and structure. At least on Earth today humans are one of the old/few species that revolves around the concept of total resource extraction.

 Overread wrote:
Farming is more practical for long term survival, but at present we don't really know the Tyranids real purpose. Thus far their operations have focused around powerful Hive Fleets striking deep into the Galaxy, consuming worlds in a quick manner of harvesting all bio and much mineral mass and then moving on.

They've also shown tactical awareness as some hive fleets fighting demon forces have had other fleets consume and predigest worlds, leaving them behind to be fed on by the demonic fighting fleet (since demons don't leave behind biomass when killed). It's also been used to try and get around Imperial methods of burning worlds in advance to try and starve a hive fleet out.

We've also seen them starting to construct a single planetary sized structure, for what purpose we've no idea. Furthermore its the only time we've seen them properly entrench themselves.



Tyranids are an enigma and we've no real understanding of them nor their motivations. In many ways I hope we never do, its nice to see facets of their thinking and approach, but I think they'd be weaker if we got a full on breakdown of them.

Also when talking and thinking of the Hive Mind its important to note that the Imperial reports might be wrong. One Imperial might speak to the Hive Mind, but they've no real way to verify if what they spoke to was the Mind itself; or a simple element of it. It might even have been a single organism pretending; or presenting itself as such. A Norn Queen likely could achieve it with ease.




Interesting to note though that whilst they are the most alien of all the xenos factions, they are also somewhat human too. Extreme consumption of raw resources before moving into the next site is a classic trait of human activity when left unchecked and without strict forethought and structure. At least on Earth today humans are one of the old/few species that revolves around the concept of total resource extraction.

Can't remember. Was there fluff about the Old Ones creating the younger races including the Tyranids to fight the entities in the Warp?

 Overread wrote:
Farming is more practical for long term survival, but at present we don't really know the Tyranids real purpose. Thus far their operations have focused around powerful Hive Fleets striking deep into the Galaxy, consuming worlds in a quick manner of harvesting all bio and much mineral mass and then moving on.

They've also shown tactical awareness as some hive fleets fighting demon forces have had other fleets consume and predigest worlds, leaving them behind to be fed on by the demonic fighting fleet (since demons don't leave behind biomass when killed). It's also been used to try and get around Imperial methods of burning worlds in advance to try and starve a hive fleet out.

We've also seen them starting to construct a single planetary sized structure, for what purpose we've no idea. Furthermore its the only time we've seen them properly entrench themselves.



Tyranids are an enigma and we've no real understanding of them nor their motivations. In many ways I hope we never do, its nice to see facets of their thinking and approach, but I think they'd be weaker if we got a full on breakdown of them.

Also when talking and thinking of the Hive Mind its important to note that the Imperial reports might be wrong. One Imperial might speak to the Hive Mind, but they've no real way to verify if what they spoke to was the Mind itself; or a simple element of it. It might even have been a single organism pretending; or presenting itself as such. A Norn Queen likely could achieve it with ease.




Interesting to note though that whilst they are the most alien of all the xenos factions, they are also somewhat human too. Extreme consumption of raw resources before moving into the next site is a classic trait of human activity when left unchecked and without strict forethought and structure. At least on Earth today humans are one of the old/few species that revolves around the concept of total resource extraction.

I like the vagueness of not knowing everything about them. The have a lot of parallels to Yuzhaan Vong in the Star Wars EU. Pure biological, a living planet, seemingly endless resources( which turns out to not be the case.)

The biggest thing to limit/attack Tyranid logistics would be to sever/weaken the hive mind powers. This would limit the fighting effectiveness and thus put some sort of "limit" on the amount of resources they could "process/recycle". Having a bunch of strong Pyskers (emperor, tiggy, Eldar, ork will, etc...) severely "sever or dampen" the connection could be that victory but still allow for eternal war.

SkullzInfinity wrote:
Personally I think it's crap that Marines and Spikey Marines between them have like 8 super characters no-one else can touch. I'd like every Xenos faction to get at least one Special Character comparable to a Primarch as well, see no reason for only the Marines to literally hoard every single strongest character in the entire setting for them and them alone.

Damn right, give me a Ghazghkull just as strong as Primarch. Buff that pathetic loser Swarmlord who's constantly dying to everyone he fights too. Avatar of Khaine as well but, at this stage, I think hoping for the Avi of Khainey to do anything but die is pointless.

Bets that Phoenix Rising sees an Avatar of Khaine wake up, trip, and die in seconds?

It's a "can he die" issue. Having Bjorn The Washing Machine kill Magnus or a random intercessor marine gun down an Avatar of Khaine is fine to GW because those characters are available to die in order to show how cool somebody is.

Yeah, if the hive mind's goal was just survival of the species, you'd think they would have come up with the idea of agriculture by now. Then again, the latest codex does mention that hive fleet that it just sitting there guarding a world, so maybe they finally discovered the idea and created an agri-world to start farming.

Then again, they may not care, even though their strategy seems self-defeating. I mean, does any animal or insect care about exhausting it's resources? And especially for Tyranids, they don't actually need enough resources to keep any of the lesser creatures alive. They are all expendable. The worker bees can all die off, they only kneed the queen bees to survive the winter.

Perhaps they are intentionally trying to devour as much as possible not to get a greater amount of material, but the greatest variety in order to create stronger organisms. Or maybe they are just driven by pure insatiable irrational animistic hunger. Like most things in 40k, it's probably best left vague.

 H wrote:

Well, I do agree, but notions of farming at not only at odds with the entire thematic setting on 40k, that survival is predicated on violence. We simply must concede something, or else we have no place to start.
.

It isn't at odds at all. They'd be traveling from system to system and effectively forcibly terraforming planets into Death Worlds (by human standards). Food and nests for Tyranids, dangerous to deadly to everyone else. And at the end of each nesting cycle they'd push out excess tyranid creatures to new worlds. Still a major threat, but one that's internally consistent and appropriate to a purely biological species.

 Popsghostly wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Farming is more practical for long term survival, but at present we don't really know the Tyranids real purpose. Thus far their operations have focused around powerful Hive Fleets striking deep into the Galaxy, consuming worlds in a quick manner of harvesting all bio and much mineral mass and then moving on.

They've also shown tactical awareness as some hive fleets fighting demon forces have had other fleets consume and predigest worlds, leaving them behind to be fed on by the demonic fighting fleet (since demons don't leave behind biomass when killed). It's also been used to try and get around Imperial methods of burning worlds in advance to try and starve a hive fleet out.

We've also seen them starting to construct a single planetary sized structure, for what purpose we've no idea. Furthermore its the only time we've seen them properly entrench themselves.



Tyranids are an enigma and we've no real understanding of them nor their motivations. In many ways I hope we never do, its nice to see facets of their thinking and approach, but I think they'd be weaker if we got a full on breakdown of them.

Also when talking and thinking of the Hive Mind its important to note that the Imperial reports might be wrong. One Imperial might speak to the Hive Mind, but they've no real way to verify if what they spoke to was the Mind itself; or a simple element of it. It might even have been a single organism pretending; or presenting itself as such. A Norn Queen likely could achieve it with ease.




Interesting to note though that whilst they are the most alien of all the xenos factions, they are also somewhat human too. Extreme consumption of raw resources before moving into the next site is a classic trait of human activity when left unchecked and without strict forethought and structure. At least on Earth today humans are one of the old/few species that revolves around the concept of total resource extraction.

Can't remember. Was there fluff about the Old Ones creating the younger races including the Tyranids to fight the entities in the Warp?

No. Tyranids were not included.
What makes the Tyranids so interesting is that they were not created by the Old Ones and are from another galaxy. Same reason why Necrons and C'tan are interesting. If they retconned it and said "lol nope, Old Ones made everything", well, that would be disappointing, imo.

Voss wrote:
It isn't at odds at all. They'd be traveling from system to system and effectively forcibly terraforming planets into Death Worlds (by human standards). Food and nests for Tyranids, dangerous to deadly to everyone else. And at the end of each nesting cycle they'd push out excess tyranid creatures to new worlds. Still a major threat, but one that's internally consistent and appropriate to a purely biological species.

Well, I think that is fair. But it depends on how the Hive Mind construes the nature of competition. In our biological paradigm, in fact, the only one we know of, it makes sense that lions don't want to exterminate gazelles. Since, if they did, what would they eat? Sure, something else, until there is nothing else they could eat. Then eat each other. Which is a losing game, if the aim is to have as many lions alive as possible. You'd get the "best" lion at the end, but that would be the last lion, since it would have nothing to eat. Of course, it could adapt to eat plants then start this anew, but it's the same losing paradigm.

However, I'd imagine a slightly more nuanced paradigm. Rather, the Hive Mind doesn't just want to be "the fittest" life form in an array of lifeforms, it is actually attempting to bring all biodiversity under itself. That is, make All Things (all living things) parts of the One Thing (the Hive Mind). In this way, the Hive Mind is always the "fittest thing" since it is all things. There is no competition outside it's own biodiversity. No exotic living threats. More importantly no conscious directed threats. The only consciousness is the Hive Mind. In a way, the Hive Mind would be a sort of union between a sort of Hegelian notion of Absolute Spirit and the God of Intelligent Design.

In this sense, the galaxy or wherever the Tyranids came from is already as "biodiverse" as it can be, that is, the whole thing is populated by Tyranid Hive Mind entities. At that point, since there would be nothing living to have to compete with besides itself, it can find it "equilibrium state" of, say, photosynthetic Tyranid forms and those that would eat them keeping the system homeostatic.

It's only once the Hive Mind realized there was a new set of external threats that it sends out fleets, fleets that are in "war mode" to eliminate threats with maximal efficiency (that is, with no other purpose). Until the point where the external (i.e. consciousness outside the Hive Mind) existential threat is low, at which point, it is safe for the Hive Mind to open those places to it's own internal form of competition (i.e. full biodiversity, which means photosynthetic, etc. Tyranid forms).

Of course, I just made all of this up on the spot. I'd think that competent writers, those with actual skills and talents (i.e. not me), could likely do even better. Or, should do better. I'm not saying my paradigm is perfect, by any stretch of the imagination, but I do think it has a better conceptual framework at hand than what we usually get.

Mods, please. Pages of OT discussion about Ghazghkull and the Tyranid hivemind - does this have anything to do with Psychic Awakening N&R?

This thread is difficult to read.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
No. Tyranids were not included.
What makes the Tyranids so interesting is that they were not created by the Old Ones and are from another galaxy. Same reason why Necrons and C'tan are interesting. If they retconned it and said "lol nope, Old Ones made everything", well, that would be disappointing, imo.

Agree 100%. Tyranids representing the 'Other', the cosmic horror from outside, the 'Here There Be Monsters' on the map is much more compelling conceptually than Darth Vader built C-3PO.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 DivineVisitor wrote:


Personally I'm happy with everything not being equal, it makes things boring. The Greater Daemons, Avatar of Khaine, Ctan they are on Primarch level imo.

The Beast would be Primarch level, Ghaz is Chapter Master level or slightly above.

Nids shouldn't really have anything quite on that level until we start talking about beasties bigger than Hive Tyrants and Carnifexes as they are essentially mass produced bio materials and we're talking about characters fused with the power of God's or at least a portion of that God's power. It's no slight to not be on their level.

If there is to be inequality, it should be completely against the Imperium. That's kinda the whole point of the 40k setting - humanity is well and truly fethed.

Either way - it's not about what happens in the black library collection (because we know that any named marine will beat anything else), it's about their relevance in the faction. The "main" character of the faction should absolutely be Primarch level, if not in terms of fighting ability then in terms of tactical prowess and accolades.

Take the Swarmlord. This monstrosity is supposed to be the pinnacle of designed evolution and contains all the knowledge of an entity that is potentially older than anything else in existence. If it fights with something and loses, it comes back with all the memories of its past loss and integrates those memories into its tactics. It constantly learns and constantly adapts. It does not stop until it has killed everything it needs to kill, then it is reborn wherever the hive mind needs it to do the same thing again. This thing, in all honesty, should be far superior to any Primarch. It lost to bloody Marneus "number 2, gauntlets of chumptramar" Calgar of all things. A man born to be number 2. Beat an entity that has existed for presumably millennia in a constant state of bloodshed and battle, that cannot be killed permanently and learns from every loss. How does this make sense?

How pathetic would the Swarmlord be if it fought against Guilliman? Would it even be a fight? How about Primarchs that are greater fighters than Guilliman? There's enough of them. Frankly it'd be embarrassing, one can assume. Perhaps so embarrassing that the Hive Mind would recoil in shock and implode upon itself, thus killing all of the Tyranid Swarms instands

Now I'm not a Nid player, I have no vested interest in this, but doesn't it seem a bit freaking stupid that the pinnacle of all the Tyranids are about, the creature that epitomises the entire faction, is beaten by a bloody number 2 chump?! Well it does to me.

The same should be true of any character that fulfils this role for their faction, we know each has one - Ghazzy for Orks, Eldrad for Eldar, Vect for DE, Farsight for Tau, Cawl for Admech, Yarrick for IG etc etc

Just my thoughts anyways.

While i agree Swarmlord should smash Calgar i believe there should be a limit to how powerful it can actually become, boost one attribute and it can have a negative effect on another, sure it can adapt etc but i still see Godly Beings such as the C'tan, Avatar of Khaine, Greater Daemons and Primarchs being a league above what is essentially a supped up Hive Tyrant no matter how much it adapts or learns. Still there is no shame in that, we're talking about it being 2nd only to beings that are literally infused with supernatural Godly power. When it comes up against anything else it should reign supreme.

 TedNugent wrote:
Mods, please. Pages of OT discussion about Ghazghkull and the Tyranid hivemind - does this have anything to do with Psychic Awakening N&R?

This thread is difficult to read.

No but it's OT discussion or half a week of nothing.

Kinda par the course for threads on dakka.

I heard there was. Slaaneshi symbol at the end of the Psychoc Awakening Twitch stream earlier.

To what does that refer? Emp Kids? Something about Eldar?

Cronch wrote:
The ultimate problem with tyranids is that they cannot win. As in, if the writers acknowledge their victories, they will also have to acknowledge the fact that they cannot be stopped at that point with conventional means, because every time they win, they essentially regenerate their numbers and grow more troops, while every other faction loses troops, and cannot replace those losses as quickly.

So instead we have the tyranids be punching bags, which robs them, or any xenos, of any menace.

But that isn't really true. You can literally just take something like Gryphonne IV, make a book out of it, detail it, and that's more than good enough. 40k always works on the logic of almost no victory, no matter how big, translating to anything coming down. Iyanden can lose literally 90% of their population and literally go on in the Fluff almost exactly as they always have. The Tyranid can have a book about them winning just as much as anyone else. You just need to pick a particular important point, give them an enemy against who them triumphing gives Tyranid players a chance to for once feel satisfaction and as if they are cool guys who can win against tough opponents sometimes, and presto you're done.

Also I don't see why the Swarmlord should be weaker than 'godly beings'. Warp Gods are literally just massive psychic collectives in this. The Hive Mind is already so strong it blocks out the Warp. No reason a massive psychic entity like that isn't just as comparable to a 'godly being' as Gork or Mork or the Emperor.

But, to stick with Phoenix Rising: I wonder when we'll see the release date drop. It's this month apparently so I'd expect we should pretty soon know when it's actually coming out.

 Manchu wrote:
I heard there was. Slaaneshi symbol at the end of the Psychoc Awakening Twitch stream earlier.

To what does that refer? Emp Kids? Something about Eldar?

It was the not so much the end of Psychic Awakening as the beginning of their Four Warlords coverage starting with the Emperors Children player who drew that on screen

Cronch wrote:
The ultimate problem with tyranids is that they cannot win. As in, if the writers acknowledge their victories, they will also have to acknowledge the fact that they cannot be stopped at that point with conventional means, because every time they win, they essentially regenerate their numbers and grow more troops, while every other faction loses troops, and cannot replace those losses as quickly.

So instead we have the tyranids be punching bags, which robs them, or any xenos, of any menace.

The tyranids are one of the most frustrating plot points of 40k.

Necrons seem unstoppable but there are a finite number of them and they sleep for most of the time.
Orks can be beat, but it's hard to put them down completely.
Chaos cults can be destroyed (or at worst, exterminatus'd)

Tyranids are a never-ending plague that is slowly consuming the entire galaxy one hundred planets at a time. If something drastic doesn't change, then the Tyranids WILL win.

The main thing that I think will keep that from happening is Chaos realizing "Crap, if everything is eaten by the tyranids, then there wont be any more emotions to feed us" and joining the fight against the Tyranids, but that won't happen because Chaos is too busy fighting against everything else and seems content to ignore the Tyranids completely.

chaos isn't ignoring 'nids though, chaos and 'nids do fight. although I think a real intreasting story would be a world that defends against tyranids along side space marine saviors. only to be wiped out by an inqusitor when it's revealed said chaos marines where the Iron Warriors or something

There was just a story in White Dwarf about some guardsmen defending against a tyranid invasion...

No worries there - they are the galaxy's true saviors - loyal and loving it for over 10K years!!!

drbored wrote:

Cronch wrote:
The ultimate problem with tyranids is that they cannot win. As in, if the writers acknowledge their victories, they will also have to acknowledge the fact that they cannot be stopped at that point with conventional means, because every time they win, they essentially regenerate their numbers and grow more troops, while every other faction loses troops, and cannot replace those losses as quickly.

So instead we have the tyranids be punching bags, which robs them, or any xenos, of any menace.

The tyranids are one of the most frustrating plot points of 40k.

Necrons seem unstoppable but there are a finite number of them and they sleep for most of the time.
Orks can be beat, but it's hard to put them down completely.
Chaos cults can be destroyed (or at worst, exterminatus'd)

Tyranids are a never-ending plague that is slowly consuming the entire galaxy one hundred planets at a time. If something drastic doesn't change, then the Tyranids WILL win.

The main thing that I think will keep that from happening is Chaos realizing "Crap, if everything is eaten by the tyranids, then there wont be any more emotions to feed us" and joining the fight against the Tyranids, but that won't happen because Chaos is too busy fighting against everything else and seems content to ignore the Tyranids completely.

I wouldn't say they ignore Tyranids completely. There is that fluff piece about the carnage of a Tyranid attack being bloody enough to open a rift for Khorne Daemons to rush out and be WTF confused. Then the daemons and tyranids threw down in an epic fight. Seriously though, both Necron and Daemons are perfect for fighting Tyranids. No matter what they don't leave any biomass behind.

 cuda1179 wrote:

drbored wrote:

Cronch wrote:
The ultimate problem with tyranids is that they cannot win. As in, if the writers acknowledge their victories, they will also have to acknowledge the fact that they cannot be stopped at that point with conventional means, because every time they win, they essentially regenerate their numbers and grow more troops, while every other faction loses troops, and cannot replace those losses as quickly.

So instead we have the tyranids be punching bags, which robs them, or any xenos, of any menace.

The tyranids are one of the most frustrating plot points of 40k.

Necrons seem unstoppable but there are a finite number of them and they sleep for most of the time.
Orks can be beat, but it's hard to put them down completely.
Chaos cults can be destroyed (or at worst, exterminatus'd)

Tyranids are a never-ending plague that is slowly consuming the entire galaxy one hundred planets at a time. If something drastic doesn't change, then the Tyranids WILL win.

The main thing that I think will keep that from happening is Chaos realizing "Crap, if everything is eaten by the tyranids, then there wont be any more emotions to feed us" and joining the fight against the Tyranids, but that won't happen because Chaos is too busy fighting against everything else and seems content to ignore the Tyranids completely.

I wouldn't say they ignore Tyranids completely. There is that fluff piece about the carnage of a Tyranid attack being bloody enough to open a rift for Khorne Daemons to rush out and be WTF confused. Then the daemons and tyranids threw down in an epic fight. Seriously though, both Necron and Daemons are perfect for fighting Tyranids. No matter what they don't leave any biomass behind.

Demons are pretty bad against Nids as they're weakened massively by the Warp Shadow and they don't get any energy from emotions either.

pm713 wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
Mods, please. Pages of OT discussion about Ghazghkull and the Tyranid hivemind - does this have anything to do with Psychic Awakening N&R?

This thread is difficult to read.

No but it's OT discussion or half a week of nothing.

I'll take the half a week of nothing, thanks. There's a designated place for OT discussion; this is the designated space for News and Rumors. I expect to find News and/or Rumors here, not rambling postings about alien punching bags.

It might be hard to find to be fair, but the reason people are talking about Nids, Chaos and Orks is because there are RUMOURS about the next PA books and all are included.

Honestly if they did a Space Marines vs Orks box I might actually consider doing a Ork Army, I think I've got Orks from ABR on sprue in my closet.