Psychic Awakening N&R - FAQs p.183.

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**Nicorex**

Hellebore wrote:
VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
the scythes thing was simply GSC infiltration of their human support staff, which is yes a weak link in their chain.

Except there is still screening of Serfs, and they also say that the Chapter's Marines were infected by the Genestealer's Kiss.

While unlikely, it is still possible.

How an AVATAR can merge with a patriarch is beyond me....

Just wondering what book you are talking about?

**pm713**

Nicorex wrote:
Hellebore wrote:
VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
the scythes thing was simply GSC infiltration of their human support staff, which is yes a weak link in their chain.

Except there is still screening of Serfs, and they also say that the Chapter's Marines were infected by the Genestealer's Kiss.

While unlikely, it is still possible.

How an AVATAR can merge with a patriarch is beyond me....

Just wondering what book you are talking about?

The second Ynnari book. I think it's Wild Rider?

**Eumerin**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Hellebore wrote:
VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
the scythes thing was simply GSC infiltration of their human support staff, which is yes a weak link in their chain.

Except there is still screening of Serfs, and they also say that the Chapter's Marines were infected by the Genestealer's Kiss.

While unlikely, it is still possible.

How an AVATAR can merge with a patriarch is beyond me....

Infect a Pheonix Lord who is sacrficed and the psychic taint infests the Avatar's form?

Phoenix Lord's don't get sacrificed.

Also, if avatars were vulnerable that way, then I expect daemons would be as well.

In any case, infecting space marines would be a dead end since they don't have kids. And samples of the chapter's geneseed regularly get sent off for screening, making it likely that they'd quickly get discovered.

**Karthicus**

If we could keep the thread on topic instead of "omg X faction needs more/less releases" to other threads that would be nice. I think the latest leak got overlooked for the most part due to all the

from the last two pages.

About Psychic Awakening Vol. 3 (BA vs Tyranids) :

_ Mephiston will get a new model. He is now a primaris.

About Psychic Awakening Vol. 2 :

_ Main focus is BT vs Chaos (CSM). SoB will be in it, but they are not the main focus of the book. Same goes for Imperial Guard.

_ Librarians, Chaplains and Techmarines "level 2" are making a comeback. Librarians and Chaplains know one more spell / litany and can cast one more spell / litany. Techmarines lvl 2 can repair a flat 3 damages instead of D3.

_ Access to those lvl 2 characters will work in the same manner as getting a Chapter Master or Ork Warphead. The stratagems to "upgrade" the characters will cost 1 CP.

_ All SM will have access to those lvl 2 characters (he doesn't know if SW, DA and BA will have access to Chaplains lvl 2 because they don't even know Litanies right now). He thinks it is only for SM and CSM will not have access to something similar but he's not sure.

_ BT cannot use IF stratagems / warlord traits / etc. PA2 will pretty much be its own supplement for BT : super-doctrine, warlord traits, relics, stratagems and their very own Litanies. He doesn't know if there will be any new model for BT (it was confirmed to him that there will be NO Primaris version or new model for Hellbrecht, Grimaldus and the Emperor's Champion).

_ Don't expect a lot of new models in general. There might be a new Chaos Sorcerer though.

We had rumors for the past couple of weeks saying BT would get some sort of love when it came to new or updated models. A possible Primaris EC? Now nothing? That would be pretty lame if BT got nothing updated/upgraded. Give us something GW! I can understand not moving the current named characters to primaris, but I thought the EC would be fitting. In fact I think the EC would make sense to have both the regular and Primaris version still be viable moving forward. Maybe they will release someone new in that case like the did for IF and IH. How about a Primaris with a hammer? I'd line up to buy that.

Edit - On further thought.... It doesn't make any sense to add BT in a box set if they aren't adding any new models, or updating anything - like say the Sword Brother unit. What would the point of a box set be at that point?

Not sure what to think about the "level 2" changes, but I would welcome some BT specific tweaks. It would make sense to load up on other things since they don't have any casting.

Not that I play Demons or CMS, but I like the list we saw for Volume 2. The short story they put up of the Commisar (last week?) for PA makes me think that this is going to be a pretty brutal round from a lore standpoint, and being within spitting distance of Terra? Let the games begin!

**Slayer-Fan123**

Not Online!!! wrote:
Fayric wrote:
Anyone complaining about marine releases are just doing the hobby wrong.
Just get a marine army on the side -they are really easy to get because they are part of most boxed sets for nice discounts

Seriously though, I thought many gamers kept a marine force on the side. Most of my friends has 2 or 3 different factions gathered over the years.

Not everyone has that ammount of cash, especially in regards to the new and improved prices (COUGH ELIMINATORS COUGH)
Secondly, in my situation i allready got marines. Just the wrong kind, with spikes, you know the ones?

I just refuse to buy Eliminators and Suppressors because of the unit design. You buy them as three man units and...that's it. Super fething lame.

**AlmightyWalrus**

No models for BT would be in line with the last two editions: all the hate by association with other Marines that do everything better than you, none of the love from having a decent niche and model releases that work with your army.

**Galas**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
No models for BT would be in line with the last two editions: all the hate by association with other Marines that do everything better than you, none of the love from having a decent niche and model releases that work with your army.

To be honest Intercessors in Assault Doctrine are very scary now in meele. And probably they'll be even better with all the meele bonuses BT will get, I'm sure.
Agressors are also good as an assault unit.

**AlmightyWalrus**

The potential is there, it'll be down to the non-Chapter Tactic boni. I just have a hard time seeing how BT Intercessors are going to compete with UM ones. The melee buffs would have to be very strong there to equal "always stationary, always shooting".

One niche they could go with is BT as the Drop Pod/Deep Strike faction. It'd fit in with the CT and be fluffy to boot.

EDIT: I guess what I fear is another edition spent existing for the sake of existing. This pisses of BT players (who get to enjoy being the worst loyalists for a third edition in a row bar possibly GK) and it pisses off everyone else too (for having a Marine faction that might as well not exist hogging a release slot). Either give us rules that aren't poop or rip off the band-aid and tell us we're no longer wanted. Stop giving us hope when it's just the first step on the road to disappointment.

**ClockworkZion**

Jacob29 wrote:
You have a full range of plastics easily available. No real core issues with your line. What can they even do for Guard that isn't just a brand new thing that they don't exactly need but would be nice?

A full line reboot. Drop the desert storm era look of the Cadians and lean more into the WWI/WWII era look that their tanks have. That or use Guilliman as an excuse to bring back the Solar Auxilia in plastic.

**Carlovonsexron**

ClockworkZion wrote: That or use Guilliman as an excuse to bring back the Solar Auxilia in plastic.

What a wonderful (if expensive) world it would be!

**ClockworkZion**

Eumerin wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Hellebore wrote:
VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
the scythes thing was simply GSC infiltration of their human support staff, which is yes a weak link in their chain.

Except there is still screening of Serfs, and they also say that the Chapter's Marines were infected by the Genestealer's Kiss.

While unlikely, it is still possible.

How an AVATAR can merge with a patriarch is beyond me....

Infect a Pheonix Lord who is sacrficed and the psychic taint infests the Avatar's form?

Phoenix Lord's don't get sacrificed.

Also, if avatars were vulnerable that way, then I expect daemons would be as well.

In any case, infecting space marines would be a dead end since they don't have kids. And samples of the chapter's geneseed regularly get sent off for screening, making it likely that they'd quickly get discovered.

Sorry, I should have said "Young King". Still, point remains, infect someone then have them do the awakening. I mean if a Keeper of Secrets can possess an Avatar, nothing is impossible.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Carlovonsexron wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote: That or use Guilliman as an excuse to bring back the Solar Auxilia in plastic.

What a wonderful (if expensive) world it would be!

It'd give the Guard a rather unique (if very 50s raygun) asthetic for sure.

I mean I'd love something like plastic Krieg, but if we can't have them, plastic spacemen would be good too.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Eumerin wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Hellebore wrote:
VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
the scythes thing was simply GSC infiltration of their human support staff, which is yes a weak link in their chain.

Except there is still screening of Serfs, and they also say that the Chapter's Marines were infected by the Genestealer's Kiss.

While unlikely, it is still possible.

How an AVATAR can merge with a patriarch is beyond me....

Infect a Pheonix Lord who is sacrficed and the psychic taint infests the Avatar's form?

Phoenix Lord's don't get sacrificed.

Also, if avatars were vulnerable that way, then I expect daemons would be as well.

In any case, infecting space marines would be a dead end since they don't have kids. And samples of the chapter's geneseed regularly get sent off for screening, making it likely that they'd quickly get discovered.

Unless Chapters go silent and stop sending off samples to be examined because they are almost destroyed and don’t have any to spare, and started actively using their now tainted Geneseed.

Which it’s revealed is exact what was happening, and is no explained as why in the previous Scythes of Emperor novels the 3rd Company Captain left the Chapter Master to die and later killed the Chief Apothecary. Because they knew the geneseed had been corrupted and kept using it.

**Karthicus**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
The potential is there, it'll be down to the non-Chapter Tactic boni. I just have a hard time seeing how BT Intercessors are going to compete with UM ones. The melee buffs would have to be very strong there to equal "always stationary, always shooting".

One niche they could go with is BT as the Drop Pod/Deep Strike faction. It'd fit in with the CT and be fluffy to boot.

EDIT: I guess what I fear is another edition spent existing for the sake of existing. This pisses of BT players (who get to enjoy being the worst loyalists for a third edition in a row bar possibly GK) and it pisses off everyone else too (for having a Marine faction that might as well not exist hogging a release slot). Either give us rules that aren't poop or rip off the band-aid and tell us we're no longer wanted. Stop giving us hope when it's just the first step on the road to disappointment.

I think so far most of the supplement work has been pretty decent so far for all the chapters we have seen. No reason to think (yet) that BT are going to get screwed.

That being said, that whole hope/disappointment bit you mentioned....

**Slayer-Fan123**

Galas wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
No models for BT would be in line with the last two editions: all the hate by association with other Marines that do everything better than you, none of the love from having a decent niche and model releases that work with your army.

To be honest Intercessors in Assault Doctrine are very scary now in meele. And probably they'll be even better with all the meele bonuses BT will get, I'm sure.
Agressors are also good as an assault unit.

Nobody is allowed to start in Assault Doctrine though. Because for reasons.

**Galas**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Galas wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
No models for BT would be in line with the last two editions: all the hate by association with other Marines that do everything better than you, none of the love from having a decent niche and model releases that work with your army.

To be honest Intercessors in Assault Doctrine are very scary now in meele. And probably they'll be even better with all the meele bonuses BT will get, I'm sure.
Agressors are also good as an assault unit.

Nobody is allowed to start in Assault Doctrine though. Because for reasons.

Yeah but a bunch of Intercessors firing -2AP bolters turn 2 and charging with 3 attacks each at -1AP in turn 3 doesn't sound bad for a 17ppm model (Or was it 16? Man the power creep...) with 2 Wounds and a sv3+.
And is not like you won't have all kind of other support units, those are just your basic troops.

**Sterling191**

Karthicus wrote:

I think so far most of the supplement work has been pretty decent so far for all the chapters we have seen. No reason to think (yet) that BT are going to get screwed.

That being said, that whole hope/disappointment bit you mentioned....

Important difference this time around however: we're not talking about a codex supplement, we're talking about a PA campaign book. While the supplements have been beefy ruleswise, PA so far has not come anywhere near that level of buffage.

**Karthicus**

Sterling191 wrote:
Karthicus wrote:

I think so far most of the supplement work has been pretty decent so far for all the chapters we have seen. No reason to think (yet) that BT are going to get screwed.

That being said, that whole hope/disappointment bit you mentioned....

Important difference this time around however: we're not talking about a codex supplement, we're talking about a PA campaign book. While the supplements have been beefy ruleswise, PA so far has not come anywhere near that level of buffage.

You might be right, but I am not sure it's apples to apples in this case. Unless I am mistaken, the leaks have mentioned that BT's part of the Vol2 books will basically be their supplement. It might be an outlier to the standard campaign book.Not that I would put money on that.

**Lord Perversor**

pm713 wrote:
Nicorex wrote:
Hellebore wrote:
VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
the scythes thing was simply GSC infiltration of their human support staff, which is yes a weak link in their chain.

Except there is still screening of Serfs, and they also say that the Chapter's Marines were infected by the Genestealer's Kiss.

While unlikely, it is still possible.

How an AVATAR can merge with a patriarch is beyond me....

Just wondering what book you are talking about?

The second Ynnari book. I think it's Wild Rider?

The first Ynnari book Ghost warrior it's the one with the history but it does make some sense when you consider the whole situation.

Spoiler to avoid reveal fluff from it

Spoiler:

**Sabotage!**

ClockworkZion wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Carlovonsexron wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote: That or use Guilliman as an excuse to bring back the Solar Auxilia in plastic.

What a wonderful (if expensive) world it would be!

It'd give the Guard a rather unique (if very 50s raygun) asthetic for sure.

I mean I'd love something like plastic Krieg, but if we can't have them, plastic spacemen would be good too.

You know, I'd be happy with any plastic Guard kit that didn't have fists bigger than the model's torso. Even if they took boring old Cadians and resculpted them to the same proportions of the command squad I'd be fine. Solar Auxilia or Death Korp would be great, but at this point I'd take just about anything to replace what is likely the worst plastic kit GW still offers (tied with possibly the plastic zombies).

**pm713**

Lord Perversor wrote:
pm713 wrote:
Nicorex wrote:
Hellebore wrote:
VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
the scythes thing was simply GSC infiltration of their human support staff, which is yes a weak link in their chain.

Except there is still screening of Serfs, and they also say that the Chapter's Marines were infected by the Genestealer's Kiss.

While unlikely, it is still possible.

How an AVATAR can merge with a patriarch is beyond me....

Just wondering what book you are talking about?

The second Ynnari book. I think it's Wild Rider?

The first Ynnari book Ghost warrior it's the one with the history but it does make some sense when you consider the whole situation.

Spoiler to avoid reveal fluff from it

Spoiler:

That one of the Oldest if not the Oldest Craftworld ever know from before the Fall has been surviving as a Genestealer cult/infectation as alternative from not having Soulstones, explains how after more than ten thousands years the Eldar psyke and belief in the migthy power of the Patriarch posing as a pseudo Khaine has turned it into a hybrid of both.

Ah my bad then. But it was still dumb. Why would they choose a Cult? How did the Cult get on board? How did any of that start? Why did a statue get infected and HOW!?

**An Actual Englishman**

I think BT will be just fine and will have the same amount of power creep as the other supplements. The French guy leaked some of the abilities for BT.

You want actual RUMOURS in this rumour thread?! How dare you

kikass wrote:Strat on a 2+ can't disengage from BT unit.
You have things like for 1CP, the turn where you land a land raider crusader you do not suffer overwatch in charge and the opponent has -1 to touch you to the cqc. Or you have a relic that gives an invaded 4+ to 3 "around the wearer for 1 round.A warlord trait that gives a bubble + 1Advance and + 1charge (so load has 8+ reroll for BT in FeP) .. yes there are some tips to reach the CqC For the characters do not bother you either, it is especially warlord traits that change, but once they are at the CqC, the target is unlikely to 'get out.

...

Also this for the relevant CSM factions;

Sorry I did not read much about CSM. I just know that the legions concerned will get 1 warlord / strat / relic trait pages each. But I have no more details. All I know is that they will not have a doctrine like SM or retouching their legion (which will not apply to vehicles like DMs ).

**Eldarain**

Bloody aggravating.

**Karthicus**

The very concept of being able to get units stuck into CQC and deny a fallback is actually really cool.

Bring on the crusade!!!!!

**An Actual Englishman**

Karthicus wrote:
The very concept of being able to get units stuck into CQC and deny a fallback is actually really cool.

Bring on the crusade!!!!!

It's incredibly strong and is an ability that should be given to more cc factions.

**ClockworkZion**

Karthicus wrote:
The very concept of being able to get units stuck into CQC and deny a fallback is actually really cool.

Bring on the crusade!!!!!

It seems to be GW's fix for melee armies since not being able to lock things into melee has been a problem for a while now.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Galas wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Galas wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
No models for BT would be in line with the last two editions: all the hate by association with other Marines that do everything better than you, none of the love from having a decent niche and model releases that work with your army.

To be honest Intercessors in Assault Doctrine are very scary now in meele. And probably they'll be even better with all the meele bonuses BT will get, I'm sure.
Agressors are also good as an assault unit.

Nobody is allowed to start in Assault Doctrine though. Because for reasons.

Yeah but a bunch of Intercessors firing -2AP bolters turn 2 and charging with 3 attacks each at -1AP in turn 3 doesn't sound bad for a 17ppm model (Or was it 16? Man the power creep...) with 2 Wounds and a sv3+.
And is not like you won't have all kind of other support units, those are just your basic troops.

Except why not just stay in the Tactical Doctrine at that point? There's just very little incentive to go all that way, especially in a IGOUGO system where games are basically decided T1

**ClockworkZion**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Galas wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Galas wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
No models for BT would be in line with the last two editions: all the hate by association with other Marines that do everything better than you, none of the love from having a decent niche and model releases that work with your army.

To be honest Intercessors in Assault Doctrine are very scary now in meele. And probably they'll be even better with all the meele bonuses BT will get, I'm sure.
Agressors are also good as an assault unit.

Nobody is allowed to start in Assault Doctrine though. Because for reasons.

Yeah but a bunch of Intercessors firing -2AP bolters turn 2 and charging with 3 attacks each at -1AP in turn 3 doesn't sound bad for a 17ppm model (Or was it 16? Man the power creep...) with 2 Wounds and a sv3+.
And is not like you won't have all kind of other support units, those are just your basic troops.

Except why not just stay in the Tactical Doctrine at that point? There's just very little incentive to go all that way, especially in a IGOUGO system where games are basically decided T1

I've yet to play a game decided on turn 1. By turn 3 perhaps, but not on turn 1.

**Galas**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Galas wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Galas wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
No models for BT would be in line with the last two editions: all the hate by association with other Marines that do everything better than you, none of the love from having a decent niche and model releases that work with your army.

To be honest Intercessors in Assault Doctrine are very scary now in meele. And probably they'll be even better with all the meele bonuses BT will get, I'm sure.
Agressors are also good as an assault unit.

Nobody is allowed to start in Assault Doctrine though. Because for reasons.

Yeah but a bunch of Intercessors firing -2AP bolters turn 2 and charging with 3 attacks each at -1AP in turn 3 doesn't sound bad for a 17ppm model (Or was it 16? Man the power creep...) with 2 Wounds and a sv3+.
And is not like you won't have all kind of other support units, those are just your basic troops.

Except why not just stay in the Tactical Doctrine at that point? There's just very little incentive to go all that way, especially in a IGOUGO system where games are basically decided T1

Because you can still shoot and then charge for nearly double the offensive capabilities (Specially with a Sargeant with a powerfist or something)? I don't know. All games are different and theres a ton of reasons for charging an unit with Intercessors. And if you are playing a meele army you want to get to assault doctrine as fast as you can.

**BrianDavion**

Ultramarines have a strat that let's them treat a single unit as being in tac doctrine even when your army is in someone else. Iron Hands have one that allows you to treat a unit as in devestator doctrine even if the rest of the army are in something else. if black templars get a strat that does the same for assault it could be a useful strat.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Over in the B&C BT thread there was mention of a BT Relic that let one unit within 6" of the bearer count as being in Assault Doctrine for the turn.

In the end a lot hinges on what the buff in that doctrine actually does though.