Psychic Awakening N&R - FAQs p.183.

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**the_scotsman**

Spoiler:

Karthicus wrote:
An Actual Englishman wrote:
Karthicus wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
eh, whatever. Sure. Black Templars, a single subfaction within Codex: Space Marines, should probably get more rules content in PA than Codex: Drukhari. Give 'em the seven-layer dip chapter tactics, the special stratagems, their own relics, feth it, why not templaromancy psychic powers! How 'bout a special dreadnought with a sword, dreadnoughts haven't got swords yet.

Thanks for proving my point. How about you actually contribute something useful to the thread? We don't even have the BT content released yet and you are throwing a temper tantrum.

Surely you see his point though right?

A subfaction of a faction (BT) get MORE love and rules than an entire faction in DE or CWE. That is insanity and it makes no sense.

No one begrudges BT good, fluffy rules. What we begrudge is these subfactions getting MORE than entire Xenos factions. As Walrus said - my Speed Freeks/Evil Sunz should have exactly the same rule depth as these new Marine subfactions. They're nowhere near currently and though people keep saying "be patient" and "it's coming", nothing and I mean nothing suggests this. Quite the opposite, given the piss poor stuff Eldar got in Phoenix Rising.

GW need to take a good, hard look at their priorities or they risk ostracising a massive portion of their playerbase and they risk losing players (and therefore money).

I do see the point, but the reason I took issue is the way it was redirected as snarky comments toward BT players. I don't recall (and in fairness I don't read Dakka all the time) anyone giving Orks that level of snark when we had Orktober last year. The general community feel was "hey cool. Good for the Orks.", and frankly I think that should be the attitude when factions - like say BT - get some love when they haven't really had much attention in 5 editions.

Rail on GW with "wtf? X faction needs help!" and I don't think you will get much flack. Hell, I bet you will have plenty of people join in. Turning it into "how dare other players be happy they are getting attention! They dont need it, I do! They should check their privilege that they are X faction, and get out of the way of what I want!" is going to receive some push back, and makes things get toxic real quick.

In a perfect world, we would see ALL factions get the depth of rules they need. Maybe I am less Jaded than some of you because I have only been playing 40k for a couple of years, but from what I see in 8th edition it seems that GW has stepped up their game in terms of released and balance updates. We get Chapter Approved Q4 every year, and two large scale FAQ's each year - but this last one felt very small. I think that's progress compared to what I have been told 40k players have been given in years past.

I know that you are unhappy to some degree with where Orks currently are, but aren't they in a better place than before Orktober last year? There was improvement, yes? Hell, Spikey Bits just posted a link showing that Orks took 3rd in some tournament recently. Might be an outlier, but they aren't hot garbage it seems.

TLDR - Yes, understand the point, but being unhappy with what your chosen faction does or doesn't have should not be license to dump on players of other factions.

I apologize for the tone. I read a post about "if you want a xenos army, go build it out of greenstuff" a few pages back, and it got me annoyed. If marines get an extra-special supplement treatment where they get special doctrines, unique stratagems, WL traits and relics and everybody else just gets pick your own chapter tactics, then BT's more than deserve to get their fancy piece of that pie as well. My irritation is more directed at that particular design paradigm (which if rumors and current books are to be believed, is in fact what we are getting) than with any BT players or fans.

**Mr Morden**

Karthicus wrote:
An Actual Englishman wrote:
Karthicus wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
eh, whatever. Sure. Black Templars, a single subfaction within Codex: Space Marines, should probably get more rules content in PA than Codex: Drukhari. Give 'em the seven-layer dip chapter tactics, the special stratagems, their own relics, feth it, why not templaromancy psychic powers! How 'bout a special dreadnought with a sword, dreadnoughts haven't got swords yet.

Thanks for proving my point. How about you actually contribute something useful to the thread? We don't even have the BT content released yet and you are throwing a temper tantrum.

Surely you see his point though right?

A subfaction of a faction (BT) get MORE love and rules than an entire faction in DE or CWE. That is insanity and it makes no sense.

No one begrudges BT good, fluffy rules. What we begrudge is these subfactions getting MORE than entire Xenos factions. As Walrus said - my Speed Freeks/Evil Sunz should have exactly the same rule depth as these new Marine subfactions. They're nowhere near currently and though people keep saying "be patient" and "it's coming", nothing and I mean nothing suggests this. Quite the opposite, given the piss poor stuff Eldar got in Phoenix Rising.

GW need to take a good, hard look at their priorities or they risk ostracising a massive portion of their playerbase and they risk losing players (and therefore money).

I do see the point, but the reason I took issue is the way it was redirected as snarky comments toward BT players. I don't recall (and in fairness I don't read Dakka all the time) anyone giving Orks that level of snark when we had Orktober last year. The general community feel was "hey cool. Good for the Orks.", and frankly I think that should be the attitude when factions - like say BT - get some love when they haven't really had much attention in 5 editions.

Rail on GW with "wtf? X faction needs help!" and I don't think you will get much flack. Hell, I bet you will have plenty of people join in. Turning it into "how dare other players be happy they are getting attention! They dont need it, I do! They should check their privilege that they are X faction, and get out of the way of what I want!" is going to receive some push back, and makes things get toxic real quick.

In a perfect world, we would see ALL factions get the depth of rules they need. Maybe I am less Jaded than some of you because I have only been playing 40k for a couple of years, but from what I see in 8th edition it seems that GW has stepped up their game in terms of released and balance updates. We get Chapter Approved Q4 every year, and two large scale FAQ's each year - but this last one felt very small. I think that's progress compared to what I have been told 40k players have been given in years past.

I know that you are unhappy to some degree with where Orks currently are, but aren't they in a better place than before Orktober last year? There was improvement, yes? Hell, Spikey Bits just posted a link showing that Orks took 3rd in some tournament recently. Might be an outlier, but they aren't hot garbage it seems.

TLDR - Yes, understand the point, but being unhappy with what your chosen faction does or doesn't have should not be license to dump on players of other factions.

Really Orktober?? bad choice - given that we saw guess how much Marine focus in that period.

I would like to see a BT supplement as I am lore person - but I think we marine players should do what many marines cosntantly tell OTHER people - wait a bit - let other Full Factions get some stuff. Just for one Week would be nice.

**Karthicus**

Scotsman - No harm, no foul. I am sure being told to make some green stuff would irritate me as well. The two Eldar players that I game with seem to be fairly happy with where they are at a faction, but that being a small sample size I am trying to figure out what the issues are. I can say that both of them picked up the box that just came out as well. They were both stoked about it. I did a double take at the price, and am NOT looking forward to the idea of paying $230 for a BT box.

Morden - Why is that a bad example? It was a month dedicated to the Orks. I don't recall a bunch of SM releases during that time. Feel free to enlighten me.

To suggest that non-SM factions haven't gotten at least a single week of time in the spotlight is absurd.

**Mr Morden**

Karthicus wrote:

To suggest that non-SM factions haven't gotten at least a single week of time in the spotlight is absurd.

Not what I said - they are ALWAYS overshaddowed by Marines showcases, models, supplements, releases etc etc - always

**AlmightyWalrus**

I've spent three editions being told how lucky I am that BT got rolled into Codex Space Marines because it means I can play with all the stuff that I didn't give two hoots about. "Be patient, just let other people get some stuff!" is half of what I've been told for ten years, while the other half is "look at all this stuff you're getting (that does you no good), stop being so entitled!". And that's when people don't want my army just deleted outright so that they can have more of whatever their own pet project is.

**Mr Morden**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I've spent three editions being told how lucky I am that BT got rolled into Codex Space Marines because it means I can play with all the stuff that I didn't give two hoots about. "Be patient, just let other people get some stuff!" is half of what I've been told for ten years, while the other half is "look at all this stuff you're getting (that does you no good), stop being so entitled!". And that's when people don't want my army just deleted outright so that they can have more of whatever their own pet project is.

I collect Black Templars.

True or false - Black Templars as a sub-sub-Faction of the Imperium have their own Relic, Characters (with models), unique units etc? yes they don't get the vast amount of stuff that the Wolves and the Angels get but thats more than many subfactions. Hell its more than the entire Sisters of Silence Faction gets and they, like the bT have thousands of elite warriors.

Oh and of course our BT got the Marine boosts - none of them any use?

Oh and the super special Drop Pod rules that no-one else is allowed to have anything similar.

You might not want or like the huge number of recent models that are no available but just for a moment consider all those Full factions that have not been given anything.....that you are telling should just wait because you want yet more Marine stuff.

**rhavien**

Umm. As I've seen three new unread pages in this thread I was excited for a short amount of time before realising that I'll only see more whining from anyone. Gimme some leaks and please discuss somewhere else.

**An Actual Englishman**

Dudeface wrote:
An Actual Englishman wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I get the argument, but you're drawing those conclusions too soon.
This has already happened, we've seen these numbers from events since the SM codex dropped. Other factions have quickly all but disappeared from the top 4s at events.

True I mean orks in 2nd and 4th at midtcon, a tourney won by renegade knights, 2 gsc top places, orks 3rd at glass hammer open. There are more marines but tell me other factions can't beat them.

I didn't say other factions can't beat them. And are you seriously going to go down the statistical analysis route? Really? If you had looked at the data at all you must know that it doesn't reflect well on your argument.

Here's a statement from Panda who compiles the top 4 every week, this statement is from this week;

Panda wrote:Panda's Weekend Rundown 10.19-10.20
40k Event Results

Space Marines drop from 67% of all top 4’s down to 55%; IH drop down to 40% [/u][b]from 50%.

Yay.

Wow look at all that balance. They were only 67% of ALL TOP 4s?! So balanced. Now they're just 55%?! One faction. Accounting for 55% of ALL TOP 4 RESULTS. Awesome.

How many Ork lists did we have in the top 4 last week, I hear you cry? They must be up there, right?! 1. 1 Ork list.

How many SM lists did we have last week in the top 4 last week? Surely it's not too many because *balance*! 12! 12 SM lists out of 20 total lists at 5 events.

AND THIS IS AN IMPROVEMENT ON PREVIOUS WEEKS.

Karthicus wrote:
Source for previously mentioned tournament - https://spikeybits.com/2019/10/this-weeks-top-3-homebrew-40k-army-lists-for-the-meta.html

1 - IF
2 - GSC
3 - Orks

See above, you think one event with an Ork player finishing third somehow excuses the utter Marine dominance? I don't think so.

Karthicus wrote:
Morden - Why is that a bad example? It was a month dedicated to the Orks. I don't recall a bunch of SM releases during that time. Feel free to enlighten me.

I'll try to be gentle. This so called "month dedicated to Orks" had 0 Ork releases and a boxed set with, guess what, a NeW pRImarIS LEUitenaNT and a new Wraithseer in something called WRATH OF THE DEAD. It also had a new Kill Team set for Tau and SW I believe. Are you enlightened now?

**JohnnyHell**

Oh good Gork (or was it Mork?), Orktober and the time for whining about it was a year ago. Let it go, man. Let it go.

**CthuluIsSpy**

It was such a disappointment though.
I mean, a Month "dedicated" to Orks, and there were non-Ork articles and 6 buggies that aren't even that good? What about all those kits in finecast that needs updating? Orktober should have been the buggies + plastic Tankbustas + plastic Kommandos + Deffkopters + plastic Weirdboy + Big Mek kit that can be either built with KFF or SAG + Plastic Warboss in Mega Armor kit.

**An Actual Englishman**

JohnnyHell wrote:
Oh good Gork (or was it Mork?), Orktober and the time for whining about it was a year ago. Let it go, man. Let it go.

You say this as if I'm the one that brought it up.

I'm over it. It doesn't mean I'm going to pretend that it was the best time to be an Ork player and that we had a ton of releases as was claimed.

**Mr Morden**

JohnnyHell wrote:
Oh good Gork (or was it Mork?), Orktober and the time for whining about it was a year ago. Let it go, man. Let it go.

Soo the Marine player who was the one who brought it up as an example of why marines need more stuff was in the right - got it.

**Dudeface**

An Actual Englishman wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
An Actual Englishman wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I get the argument, but you're drawing those conclusions too soon.
This has already happened, we've seen these numbers from events since the SM codex dropped. Other factions have quickly all but disappeared from the top 4s at events.

True I mean orks in 2nd and 4th at midtcon, a tourney won by renegade knights, 2 gsc top places, orks 3rd at glass hammer open. There are more marines but tell me other factions can't beat them.

I didn't say other factions can't beat them. And are you seriously going to go down the statistical analysis route? Really? If you had looked at the data at all you must know that it doesn't reflect well on your argument.

Here's a statement from Panda who compiles the top 4 every week, this statement is from this week;

Panda wrote:Panda's Weekend Rundown 10.19-10.20
40k Event Results

Space Marines drop from 67% of all top 4’s down to 55%; IH drop down to 40% [/u][b]from 50%.

Yay.

Wow look at all that balance. They were only 67% of ALL TOP 4s?! So balanced. Now they're just 55%?! One faction. Accounting for 55% of ALL TOP 4 RESULTS. Awesome.

How many Ork lists did we have in the top 4 last week, I hear you cry? They must be up there, right?! 1. 1 Ork list.

How many SM lists did we have last week in the top 4 last week? Surely it's not too many because *balance*! 12! 12 SM lists out of 20 total lists at 5 events.

AND THIS IS AN IMPROVEMENT ON PREVIOUS WEEKS.

Karthicus wrote:
Source for previously mentioned tournament - https://spikeybits.com/2019/10/this-weeks-top-3-homebrew-40k-army-lists-for-the-meta.html

1 - IF
2 - GSC
3 - Orks

See above, you think one event with an Ork player finishing third somehow excuses the utter Marine dominance? I don't think so.

Karthicus wrote:
Morden - Why is that a bad example? It was a month dedicated to the Orks. I don't recall a bunch of SM releases during that time. Feel free to enlighten me.

I'll try to be gentle. This so called "month dedicated to Orks" had 0 Ork releases and a boxed set with, guess what, a NeW pRImarIS LEUitenaNT and a new Wraithseer in something called WRATH OF THE DEAD. It also had a new Kill Team set for Tau and SW I believe. Are you enlightened now?

September onwards marines have a 56.5% faction win rate. Drukhari are 55%, thousand sons 54% hell harlequins are 53%.

So yes, marines are on top by a tiny margin. Let's top it off, they've been top dogs what, a whole 3 months max? All this hatred and hostility because someone that isn't you, is winning tournaments you're not at, with a faction you don't play.

We get it, you dont like marines, arguing on here won't help that. Just let the thread be about the goddamn release and its contents rather than bickering with anyone who doesn't agree with your perspective.

Please let this be the end of the discussion on what factions do or do not deserve or who needs the smallest violin.

**Darsath**

I don't mind the Space Marine double feature as the next Psychic Awakening, even after it following another Space Marine launch wave, if it results in other factions finally getting the spotlight. No trying to wedge in a Space Marine launch with the Tau release in Psychic Awakening or anything of the sort to try to redirect attention away from who should be getting some much deserved attention.

**An Actual Englishman**

Dudeface wrote:
September onwards marines have a 56.5% faction win rate. Drukhari are 55%, thousand sons 54% hell harlequins are 53%.

So? Those factions aren't broken because they AREN'T THE MAJORITY OF TOP 4s AT EVENTS.

So yes, marines are on top by a tiny margin.

No, they're not. The margin is massive.

Let's top it off, they've been top dogs what, a whole 3 months max? All this hatred and hostility because someone that isn't you, is winning tournaments you're not at, with a faction you don't play.

I don't have any hatred or hostility, the reason I'm irritated with regards to their results is because they are/were broken. When a singular codex accounts for 55% of all top 4s across all large tournaments across the world there is a problem. I would be saying the exact same thing if the faction in question was mine (Orks).

We get it, you dont like marines, arguing on here won't help that. Just let the thread be about the goddamn release and its contents rather than bickering with anyone who doesn't agree with your perspective.

Please let this be the end of the discussion on what factions do or do not deserve or who needs the smallest violin.

I actually quite like marines, they're superhuman badasses in suits of armour that makes them a walking tank. That's awesome. The thing I dislike about marines is GW's obsession with them. Again, I'd say the same thing if this were the case for any other faction in the game.

As to the current topic, the reason we're discussing marine releases and rules is because I provided rumours around the contents of the next PA volume. People have expressed disappointment at the focus on marines. Others have said it's justified because BT get very little and deserve a buff. I think it's still vaguely on topic but if you disagree and have nothing to add (apart from telling me not to participate), feel free to leave.

**Dudeface**

Good advice at last, I think this site isn't for me anymore.

**ClockworkZion**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
I wish Imperial Fists has a "Count as Devastator Doctrine" strat. It would help immensely.

Black Templars being able to grab units and make them stay in CC is really cool and thematic. I hope there is more stuff like that for other units (Blood Angels and Word Bearers would make sense to have something like that).

There is a strat in C:SM that lets us back up a doctrine, so you could go Devastator > Tactical > Devastator in a game.

**Burnage**

Dudeface wrote:
September onwards marines have a 56.5% faction win rate. Drukhari are 55%, thousand sons 54% hell harlequins are 53%.

So yes, marines are on top by a tiny margin. Let's top it off, they've been top dogs what, a whole 3 months max? All this hatred and hostility because someone that isn't you, is winning tournaments you're not at, with a faction you don't play.

We get it, you dont like marines, arguing on here won't help that. Just let the thread be about the goddamn release and its contents rather than bickering with anyone who doesn't agree with your perspective.

Please let this be the end of the discussion on what factions do or do not deserve or who needs the smallest violin.

I'd argue that the mono-faction win rate gives a better indication as to the overall strength of a Codex... and since September the Marines have been both the most played mono faction (understandable, since they're the only Codex with a Combat Doctrine equivalent) and also the highest win rate by far at 57% (barring 3 plucky Thousand Sons players who apparently did very well).

Harlequins, on the other hand, are way down at a 37% win rate. Slotting Skyweavers into other lists? Great. Actually running a Harlequins army? Decidedly not great.

**tneva82**

An Actual Englishman wrote:

I'll try to be gentle. This so called "month dedicated to Orks" had 0 Ork releases and a boxed set with, guess what, a NeW pRImarIS LEUitenaNT and a new Wraithseer in something called WRATH OF THE DEAD. It also had a new Kill Team set for Tau and SW I believe. Are you enlightened now?

And ~6 new kits and codex. All releases were just crammed into two weeks.

**Karthicus**

Mr Morden wrote:
Karthicus wrote:

To suggest that non-SM factions haven't gotten at least a single week of time in the spotlight is absurd.

Not what I said - they are ALWAYS overshaddowed by Marines showcases, models, supplements, releases etc etc - always

Keeping in line with the example.... What was Orktober "overshadowed" by? Enlighten me.

Edit - Adding from what AAE said...

I'll try to be gentle. This so called "month dedicated to Orks" had 0 Ork releases and a boxed set with, guess what, a NeW pRImarIS LEUitenaNT and a new Wraithseer in something called WRATH OF THE DEAD. It also had a new Kill Team set for Tau and SW I believe. Are you enlightened now?

Perhaps dedicated was the wrong word to use, but that was the main focus for that month. I went back and looked over the community posts, and Orks dominated the news. Isn't that also when your last Codex dropped? Regardless, from some of the responses here, it seems this was a really bad example to use as Morden said. My bad.

**ClockworkZion**

terry wrote:
Don't forget, guard still has metal and finecast models, like the primaris psyker, crusaders, dead cults etc.

Death Cults and Crusaders are Ministorum units so will likely see updates with the Sisters. The Primaris Psyker and Crusaders got a plastic update in BSF, so the digital sculpts exist to do blister packs with too.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Csm won't get anything.
Remember we are allready 2.0 (1.1 really)
And show up in competitive (as codex alphaslaaneshobliterterminator with a bit off purge) so we are fine and Dandy.

Nah. 1.5 maybe, but not 2.0.

**An Actual Englishman**

tneva82 wrote:
An Actual Englishman wrote:

I'll try to be gentle. This so called "month dedicated to Orks" had 0 Ork releases and a boxed set with, guess what, a NeW pRImarIS LEUitenaNT and a new Wraithseer in something called WRATH OF THE DEAD. It also had a new Kill Team set for Tau and SW I believe. Are you enlightened now?

And ~6 new kits and codex. All releases were just crammed into two weeks.

They were available in November.

Pre-orders were last week of October.

**ClockworkZion**

An Actual Englishman wrote:

Wow look at all that balance. They were only 67% of ALL TOP 4s?! So balanced. Now they're just 55%?! One faction. Accounting for 55% of ALL TOP 4 RESULTS. Awesome.

If the Marines were 67% of all tournament armies entered (or more) then it's actually fine and healthy. If they're less than that then we have an issue.

You can't just look at that number without comparing it to the overall tournament turnout after all.

**ERJAK**

Removed - BrookM

**the_scotsman**

ClockworkZion wrote:
terry wrote:
Don't forget, guard still has metal and finecast models, like the primaris psyker, crusaders, dead cults etc.

Death Cults and Crusaders are Ministorum units so will likely see updates with the Sisters. The Primaris Psyker and Crusaders got a plastic update in BSF, so the digital sculpts exist to do blister packs with too.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Csm won't get anything.
Remember we are allready 2.0 (1.1 really)
And show up in competitive (as codex alphaslaaneshobliterterminator with a bit off purge) so we are fine and Dandy.

Nah. 1.5 maybe, but not 2.0.

There is also a plastic DCA in Rogue Trader. If GW just...designed rules like they used to, and allowed players to use the existing models or convert them as they like to some new weapon options, the only Inquisition/Ministorium model that would need an update in plastic now (not counting arcos and penitents, which have been previewed) are:

-the actual inquisitors.
-Jokaero.
-daemonhost.

We've got amazing acolyte sculpts in the form of the various human sculpts from Rogue Trader, Necromunda, BSF and its expansions. More variation and customizability than you could ever possibly want, especially if they released 40k rules for all the weapon options that they have sculpts for in necromunda, not even having to violate the sacred No Model No Rules

We've got plastic DCA, plastic crusaders, plastic primaris psykers, and plastic ministorum priests covered.

Can you imagine how freakin sweet an Inquisition/Imperial Agents codex would be with the following unit lineup?

Spoiler:

Nothing in that list would require breaking No Model No Rules, the vast majority of it would be plastic, it would bring every rando plastic kit they've released for Specialist Games into full 40k in a way that would be fun, customizable and fluffy, and it would have a more filled-out roster than a lot of full model books.

**Not Online!!!**

ClockworkZion wrote:
terry wrote:
Don't forget, guard still has metal and finecast models, like the primaris psyker, crusaders, dead cults etc.

Death Cults and Crusaders are Ministorum units so will likely see updates with the Sisters. The Primaris Psyker and Crusaders got a plastic update in BSF, so the digital sculpts exist to do blister packs with too.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Csm won't get anything.
Remember we are allready 2.0 (1.1 really)
And show up in competitive (as codex alphaslaaneshobliterterminator with a bit off purge) so we are fine and Dandy.

Nah. 1.5 maybe, but not 2.0.

For what do you assume the () stands?

**ClockworkZion**

Not Online!!! wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
terry wrote:
Don't forget, guard still has metal and finecast models, like the primaris psyker, crusaders, dead cults etc.

Death Cults and Crusaders are Ministorum units so will likely see updates with the Sisters. The Primaris Psyker and Crusaders got a plastic update in BSF, so the digital sculpts exist to do blister packs with too.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Csm won't get anything.
Remember we are allready 2.0 (1.1 really)
And show up in competitive (as codex alphaslaaneshobliterterminator with a bit off purge) so we are fine and Dandy.

Nah. 1.5 maybe, but not 2.0.

For what do you assume the () stands?

Point was that C:SM looks like the true start of the 2.0 line. The CSM update was just to roll Vigilus in so they could eventually retire the book.

**An Actual Englishman**

ClockworkZion wrote:
An Actual Englishman wrote:

Wow look at all that balance. They were only 67% of ALL TOP 4s?! So balanced. Now they're just 55%?! One faction. Accounting for 55% of ALL TOP 4 RESULTS. Awesome.

If the Marines were 67% of all tournament armies entered (or more) then it's actually fine and healthy. If they're less than that then we have an issue.

You can't just look at that number without comparing it to the overall tournament turnout after all.

You don't think it's a problem if 67% of competitive players all decide at the same time to switch to one faction? You don't think there's a reason they might be doing that (if that were the case)?

Really?

They weren't, by the way.

Removed - BrookM

**bullyboy**

I don't understand the Ork issue at all. You got a Speed Freaks box plus several new vehicles, all which look cool as hell. Quit moaning.

**ClockworkZion**

An Actual Englishman wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
An Actual Englishman wrote:

Wow look at all that balance. They were only 67% of ALL TOP 4s?! So balanced. Now they're just 55%?! One faction. Accounting for 55% of ALL TOP 4 RESULTS. Awesome.

If the Marines were 67% of all tournament armies entered (or more) then it's actually fine and healthy. If they're less than that then we have an issue.

You can't just look at that number without comparing it to the overall tournament turnout after all.

You don't think it's a problem if 67% of competitive players all decide at the same time to switch to one faction? You don't think there's a reason they might be doing that (if that were the case)?

Really?

They weren't, by the way.

Considering more than 67% of the player base owns a Marine army that was likely collecting dust before this update? Not really. And tournaments ALWAYS chase the latest update. I can't think of a codex update that hasn't seen a spike of players, especially when that codex is a Marine based one and anyone's off-brand successor chapter can run it since it was painted specifically to let it hop books as often as possible.