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I don't want primaris anything. Just give me a useful legion trait, give csm chosen stats, and give my fething hellforged super heavys sane fething points costs. A fellblade doesn't equal over 2 baneblades.

Gadzilla666 wrote:
I don't want primaris anything. Just give me a useful legion trait, give csm chosen stats, and give my fething hellforged super heavys sane fething points costs. A fellblade doesn't equal over 2 baneblades.

seconded.

Cool to know that a Salamanders player who points out that they have a sub-50% win rate is just an apologist. "Anyone who does not agree with my premise is an apologist" is a pretty silly statement to make, and yet here we are.

JWBS wrote:
cuck

Take your weird fetishes out of the PG13 board mister!

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
It's called a warhound titan.

Warhound titans were not made by Cawl. If they were made by Cawl they would be betterer.
Primaris Warhound titans now!

Not Online!!! wrote:

you see, if GW would actually invest sometimes in factions with units older then you are probably then GW wouldn't need to have so many SM kits to carry them...

This cope is older than those kits though...

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Cool to know that a Salamanders player who points out that they have a sub-50% win rate is just an apologist. "Anyone who does not agree with my premise is an apologist" is a pretty silly statement to make, and yet here we are.

Is that against non-astartes factions or is that overall? If that winrate is including losses against non-Salamander astartes supplements, the Salamanders player could simply be bad at math or understanding what the statistical data actually represents.

Overall excluding mirror matches. You're still making the assumption that the only correct and acceptable answer is that all Space Marine Chapters are OP and that any other conclusion is worthy of ridicule or mockery.

It's entirely possible that the only thing holding Salamanders back is that they're bad at fighting other Marines. It's also entirely possible that this is true for a bunch of other armies. There's no reason why Salamanders players should be called apologists for this other than people who are angry at Marines in general and bad at methodology.

There is also the possibility that the numbers for Salamanders are warped because any salamanders force can count as any other chapter without changing anything.
This phenomena could be observed when DA dropped below GK in win%, despite having almost everything any other chapter had, which were sitting safe and sound above GK.

Yep, that's another possibility.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Overall excluding mirror matches. You're still making the assumption that the only correct and acceptable answer is that all Space Marine Chapters are OP and that any other conclusion is worthy of ridicule or mockery.

It's entirely possible that the only thing holding Salamanders back is that they're bad at fighting other Marines. It's also entirely possible that this is true for a bunch of other armies. There's no reason why Salamanders players should be called apologists for this other than people who are angry at Marines in general and bad at methodology.

Except that data does exist for other armies. For example, Tau do very well against marines overall (50+%) but are astronomically terrible against Eldar. (sub 40%) I haven't found any data that breaks down all the subfaction matchups, but that's entirely my point on how a sub-50% winrate for Salamanders doesn't mean much if 25% or more of the field is marines and they are bad against other astartes.

You're not wrong, but it's only ever Marines that have to take that into account. You don't see people going "oh, Nids are fine, they just get countered by the current meta". The meta is what we have to compare against; if we remove the other Astartes Chapters and leave Salamanders we're not just changing Salamanders but everyone else as well.

I think salamanders suffer from being in the last batch of supplements so not that many have played them and if you are just a marine player and not specificaly a Salamander player entering a competetive event you are probably gonna pick the over performers first so IH or IF. Left you are with the more "fluffy" or true Salamander players who care more about playing Salamanders than winning and maybe even underperform their supplement.

Salamanders, Ultra Marines and Raven Guard might all be better than the winrate show because you are more likely to have the better players play the better chapters and skew the results. The worst of the marine chapters is probably always gonna have this problem with showing slightly worse result than they would have if they were the only marine chapter available. So if its only a low(1-2) single digit below 50% against non astartes it probably is extremely well balanced. When it gets below that then it might cause concern.

 Jidmah wrote:
I want some Primaris Orks.

You're in luck! They're called "nobs" and they've been available for decades.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
"Each book will be accompanied by an epic champion". Except if you're Chaos or Black Templars, because you're only getting a generic Chaos Sorcerer.

Generic character > special character.
I wish Junith Eruita was just a generic character!

What's funny is that when Vigilus Burns came out many (including myself) chaos players were annoyed that the jump pack chaos lord was a Black Legion specific unit and not just a jump pack chaos lord.

I'm not sure what's funny about it, but I 100% agree with your sentiment.

And that not only was said Lord for Black Legion but they could've done ONE thing to make him slightly more viable (USE THE fething SPEAR IN MELEE HOLY gak) and instead decided that a Lord using a multidamage weapon in melee with no penalties is too broken against precious Calgar.

 Galas wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

I hear a Space Marine player lament something, but I can't listen. I can't bring myself to be jealous, even, of the shining pile of gifts they have received. It is their lot, as the chosen, to be granted such lavish attention and then cry for more. I will turn away lest they see my face and call for the purging of my army once more.

... what space marine players have cried for more?

A myriad of Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Wolves when the other endless flood of marine updates came out - "where is ours!" ad nauseum.

Others asking for more new Marines,

new Primaris Marines

New Marines

After all having a vast bloated range, always being added to by GW and FW is not nearly enough.

Oh give me a break! We are paying for the continued existence of all of your armies and GW as a whole. You should be gratefull GW throws a bone to you plebs once in a while. And unlike some GK players you haven't seem me complaint about Dark Angels being the worst army of the game for more than 1 year now. (Yes, GK and Tyranids have more winrate than DA)

Sighs and shakes head - for the hundreth time I am a Fething Marine player - must add to sig.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

I hear a Space Marine player lament something, but I can't listen. I can't bring myself to be jealous, even, of the shining pile of gifts they have received. It is their lot, as the chosen, to be granted such lavish attention and then cry for more. I will turn away lest they see my face and call for the purging of my army once more.

... what space marine players have cried for more?

A myriad of Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Wolves when the other endless flood of marine updates came out - "where is ours!" ad nauseum.

Others asking for more new Marines,

new Primaris Marines

New Marines

After all having a vast bloated range, always being added to by GW and FW is not nearly enough.

Oh give me a break! We are paying for the continued existence of all of your armies and GW as a whole. You should be gratefull GW throws a bone to you plebs once in a while. And unlike some GK players you haven't seem me complaint about Dark Angels being the worst army of the game for more than 1 year now. (Yes, GK and Tyranids have more winrate than DA)

Sighs and shakes head - for the hundreth time I am a Fething Marine player - must add to sig.

Maybe we should avoid letting someone yet again sidetrack this post with "HOW DARE AN ARMY WITH POWER ARMOR GET ANY UPDATES"?

Just wondering if "Saga of the Beast" could be another stab at Armageddon if they are working on a new Ghazgkull model. Traditionally he faces off against Yarrick.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

I hear a Space Marine player lament something, but I can't listen. I can't bring myself to be jealous, even, of the shining pile of gifts they have received. It is their lot, as the chosen, to be granted such lavish attention and then cry for more. I will turn away lest they see my face and call for the purging of my army once more.

... what space marine players have cried for more?

A myriad of Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Wolves when the other endless flood of marine updates came out - "where is ours!" ad nauseum.

Others asking for more new Marines,

new Primaris Marines

New Marines

After all having a vast bloated range, always being added to by GW and FW is not nearly enough.

Oh give me a break! We are paying for the continued existence of all of your armies and GW as a whole. You should be gratefull GW throws a bone to you plebs once in a while. And unlike some GK players you haven't seem me complaint about Dark Angels being the worst army of the game for more than 1 year now. (Yes, GK and Tyranids have more winrate than DA)

Sighs and shakes head - for the hundreth time I am a Fething Marine player - must add to sig.

Maybe we should avoid letting someone yet again sidetrack this post with "HOW DARE AN ARMY WITH POWER ARMOR GET ANY UPDATES"?

"Sigh" looks at my reply - wonders how people fail to read or comprehend it or that it was an response to others question.

The PA aweakening books are a bizare series of so called "campaign books" - where the story seems not to matter in any way and takes up little of hte actual book, the current one and apparently the next few are just Space Marine sub factions Suppements with some other stuff thrown in to pad it out a bit.

Couldn;t each have been three books so PA2 would have been - The Blood Angels Supplement, a Hive Fleet Supplement (YES a non Marine supplement) and the lore book. same with the first one. 1 model each for the two primary factions.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Primaris Knight. Get it going, Cawl, we need betterer more dakkaer more stronger more durabler imperial knights!!!

It's called a warhound titan. Plastic please, and then maybe it would be dropped in points to what it is actually worth.

Plastic Warhound must be in the same release window as the fabled Thunderhawk

RESET THE CLOCK!!!

 Mr Morden wrote:

"Sigh" looks at my reply - wonders how people fail to read or comprehend it or that it was an response to others question.
.

At this point it hardly matters. Just avoid the topic in N&R threads, please.

It'd be nice to have spam free N&R threads, and responding is exactly as bad as raising the topic in the first place- neither post matters at all to the rest of us..

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
You're not wrong, but it's only ever Marines that have to take that into account. You don't see people going "oh, Nids are fine, they just get countered by the current meta". The meta is what we have to compare against; if we remove the other Astartes Chapters and leave Salamanders we're not just changing Salamanders but everyone else as well.

Not only have I seen that before, I've frequently seen it from *Nids players*. A year ago, I heard many, many times, "Nids aren't bad, they're just hard-countered by IK!". Rest assured, that still exists.

In which case I'll stand corrected and happily say those people make a bad point too.

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
You're not wrong, but it's only ever Marines that have to take that into account. You don't see people going "oh, Nids are fine, they just get countered by the current meta". The meta is what we have to compare against; if we remove the other Astartes Chapters and leave Salamanders we're not just changing Salamanders but everyone else as well.

Not only have I seen that before, I've frequently seen it from *Nids players*. A year ago, I heard many, many times, "Nids aren't bad, they're just hard-countered by IK!". Rest assured, that still exists.

Well one year ago that was true. Nids were going quite decently as a faction, no longer top tier after the triple nerf on tyrants, but still snatching results here and there.

Then IK happened and we all know how nids cope with them, and how it ended.

Can we get a MOD in here to clean some of this up there's a lot of stuff in here that has nothing to do with psychic awakening,

This series has the worst collectors editions produced by GW I think ever. There is nothing at all extra in them. The few pieces of fiction are mostly available on community for free. The cover isn’t really any different. I don’t get it at all. They aren’t even trying.

honestly it'd be pretty gakky of them to produce a campaign/setting/lore book and make important details only apper in the limited edition one. that'd drive me crazy. I'd rather they limit that stuff to art etc.

BrianDavion wrote:
honestly it'd be pretty gakky of them to produce a campaign/setting/lore book and make important details only apper in the limited edition one. that'd drive me crazy. I'd rather they limit that stuff to art etc.

Agreed. Maybe some thematic dice or a purity seal placeholder would be cool, but locking extra content like lore or rules behind a paywall is lame. It feels like day 1 DLC.

 Knockagh wrote:
This series has the worst collectors editions produced by GW I think ever. There is nothing at all extra in them. The few pieces of fiction are mostly available on community for free. The cover isn’t really any different. I don’t get it at all. They aren’t even trying.

It's so that everyone can easily identify the untermensch who didn't pay more for the special edition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
honestly it'd be pretty gakky of them to produce a campaign/setting/lore book and make important details only apper in the limited edition one. that'd drive me crazy. I'd rather they limit that stuff to art etc.

See also: Xenology...

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Knockagh wrote:
This series has the worst collectors editions produced by GW I think ever. There is nothing at all extra in them. The few pieces of fiction are mostly available on community for free. The cover isn’t really any different. I don’t get it at all. They aren’t even trying.

It's so that everyone can easily identify the untermensch who didn't pay more for the special edition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
honestly it'd be pretty gakky of them to produce a campaign/setting/lore book and make important details only apper in the limited edition one. that'd drive me crazy. I'd rather they limit that stuff to art etc.

See also: Xenology...

...... U-ntermensch.
Please.

BrianDavion wrote:
honestly it'd be pretty gakky of them to produce a campaign/setting/lore book and make important details only apper in the limited edition one. that'd drive me crazy. I'd rather they limit that stuff to art etc.

Most of the PA fiction on Warhammer Community isn't really 'lore' though. It's just stories with no real impact on wider events which don't tell you anything you wouldn't already know about the setting in general. That kind of thing seems fine to keep exclusive to an optional book.