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The fact that it's a special character and not a "Khan on a Bike" generic is very much a disappointment, but that has everything to do with local meta for me. We pretty much all agree to not play the special characters since so many of them break game balance over their knee like so much Batman.

The Newman wrote:
The fact that it's a special character and not a "Khan on a Bike" generic is very much a disappointment, but that has everything to do with local meta for me. We pretty much all agree to not play the special characters since so many of them break game balance over their knee like so much Batman.

you don't need special charachters though to break balance.
Infact most of them are fine in most cases.
Just like most units don't break game balance.

The Newman wrote:
The fact that it's a special character and not a "Khan on a Bike" generic is very much a disappointment, but that has everything to do with local meta for me. We pretty much all agree to not play the special characters since so many of them break game balance over their knee like so much Batman.

No special characters is a really bad rule to adopt. Many armies require special characters to function.

 Xenomancers wrote:

The Newman wrote:
The fact that it's a special character and not a "Khan on a Bike" generic is very much a disappointment, but that has everything to do with local meta for me. We pretty much all agree to not play the special characters since so many of them break game balance over their knee like so much Batman.

No special characters is a really bad rule to adopt. Many armies require special characters to function.

Agreed that smacks of trying to screw over factions in favour of those with vast numbers of options.........

 Xenomancers wrote:

The Newman wrote:
The fact that it's a special character and not a "Khan on a Bike" generic is very much a disappointment, but that has everything to do with local meta for me. We pretty much all agree to not play the special characters since so many of them break game balance over their knee like so much Batman.

No special characters is a really bad rule to adopt. Many armies require special characters to function.

Name three.

(That's a legitimate question, nobody around here seems to care.)

The Newman wrote:
The fact that it's a special character and not a "Khan on a Bike" generic is very much a disappointment, but that has everything to do with local meta for me. We pretty much all agree to not play the special characters since so many of them break game balance over their knee like so much Batman.

But a castellan or knight spam is ok?

The Newman wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

The Newman wrote:
The fact that it's a special character and not a "Khan on a Bike" generic is very much a disappointment, but that has everything to do with local meta for me. We pretty much all agree to not play the special characters since so many of them break game balance over their knee like so much Batman.

No special characters is a really bad rule to adopt. Many armies require special characters to function.

Name three.

(That's a legitimate question, nobody around here seems to care.)

Well for example you literally can't play Ynnari without a special character.

Armies like Ultramarines are particularly bad options without their special characters. (you basically play without a chapter tactic for the ability to use good special characters).

Mono Custodes - no Trajen? Why?

Do you allow units like the Solitaire?

Heck in many cases special characters are a lot worse than the generic HQ's like with Orks and dark eldar.

Didn't see this posted:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/09/09/space-marines-preview-sons-of-ferrus-manusgw-homepage-post-3/

Can we take a moment to appreicate that strategem is the most Iron Hands thing ever?

SUCCESS! NOW DO IT AGAIN EXACTLY THE SAME AS BEFORE!

But we already took that hill, my lord...

DO IT AGAIN!

The Newman wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

The Newman wrote:
The fact that it's a special character and not a "Khan on a Bike" generic is very much a disappointment, but that has everything to do with local meta for me. We pretty much all agree to not play the special characters since so many of them break game balance over their knee like so much Batman.

No special characters is a really bad rule to adopt. Many armies require special characters to function.

Name three.

(That's a legitimate question, nobody around here seems to care.)

Ynari
Ultramarines
Sisters

 Daedalus81 wrote:

The Newman wrote:
The fact that it's a special character and not a "Khan on a Bike" generic is very much a disappointment, but that has everything to do with local meta for me. We pretty much all agree to not play the special characters since so many of them break game balance over their knee like so much Batman.

But a castellan or knight spam is ok?

Yes, and perfectly healthy for the game.
Just like the removal of templates.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

The Newman wrote:
The fact that it's a special character and not a "Khan on a Bike" generic is very much a disappointment, but that has everything to do with local meta for me. We pretty much all agree to not play the special characters since so many of them break game balance over their knee like so much Batman.

But a castellan or knight spam is ok?

We have only one player locally who even owns Knights and he doesn't bring them unless someone asks because "I want to play a game, not club seals."

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Didn't see this posted:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/09/09/space-marines-preview-sons-of-ferrus-manusgw-homepage-post-3/

Can we take a moment to appreicate that strategem is the most Iron Hands thing ever?

SUCCESS! NOW DO IT AGAIN EXACTLY THE SAME AS BEFORE!

But we already took that hill, my lord...

DO IT AGAIN!

OMG...Ignore penalties for heavies...on turn 1...in the best doctrine...and if that isn't enough - you also get to reroll 1's to hit for free....Can I just slap these rule writers now? Iron Hands bias is just silly.

This is so much better than sions of guilliman it's hilarious.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Didn't see this posted:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/09/09/space-marines-preview-sons-of-ferrus-manusgw-homepage-post-3/

Can we take a moment to appreicate that strategem is the most Iron Hands thing ever?

SUCCESS! NOW DO IT AGAIN EXACTLY THE SAME AS BEFORE!

But we already took that hill, my lord...

DO IT AGAIN!

OMG...Ignore penalties for heavies...on turn 1...in the best doctrine...and if that isn't enough - you also get to reroll 1's to hit for free....Can I just slap these rule writers now? Iron Hands bias is just silly.

This is so much better than sions of guilliman it's hilarious.

Are we really going to do this all over again every codex? (pls no)

The "Im the Captain now" jokes are gonna get out of hand quickly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Are we really going to do this all over again every codex? (pls no)

Of fething course we are.

This is the real beast.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Didn't see this posted:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/09/09/space-marines-preview-sons-of-ferrus-manusgw-homepage-post-3/

Can we take a moment to appreicate that strategem is the most Iron Hands thing ever?

SUCCESS! NOW DO IT AGAIN EXACTLY THE SAME AS BEFORE!

But we already took that hill, my lord...

DO IT AGAIN!

OMG...Ignore penalties for heavies...on turn 1...in the best doctrine...and if that isn't enough - you also get to reroll 1's to hit for free....Can I just slap these rule writers now? Iron Hands bias is just silly.

This is so much better than sions of guilliman it's hilarious.

Are we really going to do this all over again every codex? (pls no)

Well I know this isn't what you mean but literally every codex is going to be better than the last so yes. We will be doing this every codex. This is codex 8.5 - a spitting image of 7.5 releases. All the way to 9th eddition.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
This is the real beast.

*points at that Dreadnought over there*

Wow - that is a fair relic. I wonder how it stacks with the stratagem to half damage.

Wow these look good. If you don't have LOS blocking terrain on the table and IH go first, you might as well just pick up your army. And IH drop pod Dev squads on turn one will be super deadly. I agree with some of the posters above that many times the community over reacts to power levels with "the sky is falling" comments before anyone has played a game, but I think you are going to see a TON of IH armies now, even competitively.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
This is the real beast.

Yep... Repulsor Executioner with 2+ rerollable to hit takes 1 less damage 6+++ doesn't degrade until 4W incoming


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Wow - that is a fair relic. I wonder how it stacks with the stratagem to half damage.

That's an... interesting case. Probably will be FAQ'ed to not stack to prevent overly crazy shenanigans.

Man they're really going all in on the bloat now.

I find it annoying that I am going to shell out 30$ for 10 pages of content that I want...

But from the teaser IH dreads may just be a game changer. -1 damage to a couple of Levis, yes please!

 Kanluwen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
And with silliness at its finest, the literal two items to round out the generic book's release got left out.

they'll come out with imperial fists and salamanders in a month.

Yeah, cause Imperial Fists and Salamanders are totally known for utilizing stealthier units...

Never mind that Raven Guard literally got mentioned as fielding all Phobos Companies.

it's all aprt of the generic space marines release. understand characters aside we are NOT going to get new models with the supplements aside from what GW's already previewed

I think either you're misunderstanding my comment or you just typed a thing to type a thing.

The first Supplement we saw released? You'd be right--it was Tigurius, Khan, dice for both Ultramarines and White Scars, datacards, supplements, and the main codex. There was no generic models.
This release, however, has seen two of the remaining four generic releases: the Reiver Lieutenant and Eliminators set.

So we literally have to wait for another release slot just to get the Infiltrator/Incursor kit and the Impulsor.

Nope. First supplements released the invictor war suit, phobos captain, and Phobos Librarian.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Man they're really going all in on the bloat now.

it makes them cash for near 0 effort so why not

 Xenomancers wrote:
Absolutely a requirement. I play with basically my entire force in a 6" reroll bubble. Not difficult at all to protect a few executioners that you will be standing next to trying to repair anyways.

It is really disappointing this bubble is an iron hands special character. It's actually dumb. It makes already mandatory iron hands more mandatory.

Oh the irony!

It is utterly hilarious that a person would lack self awareness to this degree.

People were saying the exact same thing about Guilliman, and you were defending that idiotic chapter specific, special character based bubble build to the death!

 Xenomancers wrote:
OMG...Ignore penalties for heavies...on turn 1...in the best doctrine...and if that isn't enough - you also get to reroll 1's to hit for free....Can I just slap these rule writers now? Iron Hands bias is just silly.

This is so much better than sions of guilliman it's hilarious.

I actually think I disagree. Handing out "effectively didn't move" to two critical things turn one and everything turn two is arguably better than "no move-and-shoot penalties for heavies" turn one, because the one impacts Aggressors and Executioners and all the Rapid Fire weapons while the other doesn't and also because +1 Ap is a lot more valuable on all the Ap - basic weapons than it is on most of the Heavy weapons.

They both kick "D+1 on melee attacks on the third turn" into a roadside ditch and then throw gasoline on the wreckage though.

The Newman wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
OMG...Ignore penalties for heavies...on turn 1...in the best doctrine...and if that isn't enough - you also get to reroll 1's to hit for free....Can I just slap these rule writers now? Iron Hands bias is just silly.

This is so much better than sions of guilliman it's hilarious.

I actually think I disagree. Handing out "effectively didn't move" to two critical things turn one and everything turn two is arguably better than "no move-and-shoot penalties for heavies" turn one, because the one impacts Aggressors and Executioners and all the Rapid Fire weapons while the other doesn't and also because +1 Ap is a lot more valuable on all the Ap - basic weapons than it is on most of the Heavy weapons.

They both kick "D+1 on melee attacks on the third turn" into a roadside ditch and then throw gasoline on the wreckage though.

What do you mean turn 1 only it's every turn that devistator doctrine is active they get that bonus, that's slightly more bang for buck than just counting as stationary while your buffing your rapid fire weapons. Iron Hands will be the premier shooting marine's untill imperial fists or they are the best shooting marine's which is goinf to put them as probably the best way to play marine's given how the assualt vrs shooting debate always goes.

Wow that is an extremely good bonus for Iron Hands. Free re-roll 1s to all heavies and IGNORING -1 to hit for moving is incredible. I already liked eliminators and suppressors, and this just made them even better. The Ironstone is extremely good for vehicles as well. 3x redemptors might be a staple unit for Iron Hand lists.

Don't worry. I like this crazy train. By the time they get around to GK it will be something truly jaw dropping like:

All Psykic tests succeed on a 1 if there is a Palladin withing 6". All Strike squads now get an extra 12 attacks with their thunder hammers if the models are painted. When your warlord is Kaldor Draigo, all GK within 72" become GMDKs.

Seriously. This is getting silly. The first things were kinda wow, then they released stuff that was borderline meta breaking, now we have this. And still a couple more codexes after this!

Honestly i think that ultramarines are stronger than IH, at least until now.

The devastator doctrine is nice, but the strongest doctrine for marines is the tactical one. Who cares if a lascannon gets an extra -1 AP, it's the additional -1 on bolter weapons which is truly scary.