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Battlefront does have a bad supply issue. I've been trying to get some Australian M113's for 3 months now. It's the same if you try to order direct from them.

There is no shame in ordering from Amazon, but I still personally throw some money at the FLGS every now and again. It's where I play, so I do what I reasonably can to support them.

When possible, I also will make an effort to buy direct from the manufacturer and cut-out the middle man expense for all of us.

As a small-business owner and author, I have an irrational hatred of Amazon and their business practices. So, I feel better just getting it straight from the company/creator instead of Amazon.

I haven't been a regular at my 'FLGS' (which was a GW) since something like 2014, where the most regular thing I bought was probably paints. Even then, I didn't have much of any money of my own and eschewed buying directly from GW. I still rarely if ever buy directly from GW, and only do some when it's a direct only figure and I can't find it on eBay.

I play exclusively at home now. There's some hobby shops in Glasgow but honestly considering the cost of visiting them is around the same as postage would be for most of the stuff I'm buying, I rarely, if ever, buy from them.

Also; as others have said, Battlefront has bad supply issues (it used to be a notorious topic on /tg/s /fow /general where half the complaints weren't about (the very sorry) state of Battlefronts games but the horrid stock issues.

I come from an age where FLGS only sold games, all gaming was done at home (or a friend’s). I have a hard time parting with money to play at a game store because of this.

I mix my shopping between online purchases and local. Impulse buys come from the FLGS, but generally anything $100 or over gets bought online because of the discounts. Lately, however, the FLGS has been using a loyalty program that results in a discount on the next purchase, and it’s been good enough that it has been slowly swinging me back to buying at the FLGS for larger purchases.

Overall, my advice is if you use the local store for gaming, support it with purchases there (and if online discounts are making you reluctant to buy locally, respectfully discuss it with the store - they may come up with a good compromise). If you game at home or a club, shop where you get the best deal.

I shop mostly at my local LGS’s because I want people in my area to have and keep their jobs. As much as it sucks to pay more, I work in retail and understand the problem with online shopping and discounts that a physical store is unable to match.
Online discounts result from massive inventory purchases. And instead of having a knowledgeable staff member helping anyone, it’s cheaper to hire a couple dudes to pick orders from a warehouse.

I’d rather support local businesses, because without them I simply wouldn’t have a job. The only time I order gaming stuff from Amazon (in Canada it’s at the same price or more expensive) is when it’s significantly discounted or I can’t find it locally.
I feel the LGS vs online deep discounting is more a problem in the US than elsewhere. When my postal carrier makes $60 an hour, I know why shipping is so expensive up here.

I think it’s up to the individual to decide how to spend their dollars. But remember that if everyone buys online, there won’t be many local places to visit or shop at. Eventually.

Similar myself, I buy things from the store I game at to ensure the store stays there. Doesn't hurt that I also like all the employees.

I buy at the LGS when I can, but they don’t/no longer carry my games (DZC/DFC).

Unless I want to pick up 40K/AOS I’m unlikely to be able to buy any models there

 Togusa wrote:
I'm beginning my foray into Team Yankee, and both of my local FLGS said they would be happy to help feed my new obsession, however I was cautioned that (according to them) Battlefont has issues with shipping and getting things in on reasonable time scales. Out of curiosity I ended up on Amazon searching for model kits today and I am shocked at the difference in prices as compared to FLGS. In most cases, I found 40K, AoS, TY, and other game kits for as much as 30% less than what the FLGS or even the company stores charge. I mean, how can I continue to advocate for support of the FLGS and still purchase from these online sellers?

The cost of my TY force is almost 35% LESS if I buy it all on Amazon, with free shipping thanks to my prime subscription. It's enough of a difference that it would allow me to buy far more than I had originally planned for in the beginning. Of course, many will say without supporting the FLGS, we wouldn't have a spot to game, and that is true. But at what point does the benefit of saving outweigh the benefit of the FLGS community?

You have to support your FLGS, or it loses business and you lose the store, but on the same token, FLGS's need to step up and fight.

You CAN get it cheaper online, so your FLGS had better figure out how to bring you value and compete, or they go under. It really is that simple.

I hear that same tired BS all the time, and these gamestore owners want to BS you about how they have to screw you as a customer over, and then extoll the evil of online shopping.... Hey, guess what, Your bills aren't my problem. You run a store, you want me to buy, don't charge me 3 times as much, just because you are local... That's an insult. You'd better come up with a way to make a sale, or get out of business... OR I go somewhere else.

Yeah, Amazon is great, you can get anything you want, Prime, and all that crap, but at the end of the day, realize that they will run your local scene out of business if your store goes under. FLGS's like to think they dictate to you as a customer, but in the end, they are community stores, they live and die on their customers good will, when that good will dries up, they find that another store down the street is eating their lunch, and they are left holding the bag.

Buy something, hell even just cokes and Pizza, or dice or something. Gamers are good like that, but if you get a major purchase for a better price, take it. These game companies just need to start meeting us halfway, or they can go out of business as well.... 180.00 for a game for a high schooler is a MAJOR purchase. Don't come into the room crucifying him if he brings it into the store and wants to paly it. That's not your job as a FLGS worker. If anything, you want to support that customer, and figure out how to get them and you a deal, either buy from wholesalers, off line, or Fee bey, etc... if you come across some deals.

Any Hustler can always make a dime out of an opportunity.

Without the store we have no influx of new blood, since GW is completely against paying to advertise and depend on us grognards to do it for them. Without the influx of new blood, sales drop to where it could potentially endanger the existence of the product. I play older editions and have no real "skin" in the game as far as modern games go, but I still see the value of the company's continued existence.


I don't want to have to shop for alternative models just yet.

We buy at a FLGS, at online discount prices.
We don't need the FLGS, but we'd rather give the money to someone who lives in the same area and is actually a real person - to us at least.
On the other hand, if I can get simple and clean 20% off online (you can't really get much more around here without becoming GW reseller, due to complications as a business, VAT, etc.), I expect to buy things at that price, from whoever I choose to do business with.

Business owners who think they can get away with charging more will not get our custom, those who understand the modern world will thank us for picking them as our source of discounted stuff, because they know it helps them reach better scale and it costs them nothing, and that we, as customers, actually have a choice.


Of course, if we're talking the individual gamer, with limited expenses (500/year maybe?), who comes in on a random day wanting model XYZ... this becomes a lot harder.
Last few orders we made for customers were typically things no store has on shelves (10 Eldar Flyers ???), so there's that too, it's not like FLGS or any type of store has any kind of inventory compared to the internet, so going there with a precise shopping list doesn't work.


I think that the FLGS as a place to play is kind of not the best compromise, it takes up lots of space for them, doesn't really make huge money... it would be simpler with gaming clubs.
Last gaming clubs I went to were really really cheap, had a lot more space and terrain, but some (or all?) are suffering from player base renewal issues. At least the FLGS kind of guarantees you meet new people now and then.


The only smart business move I can see in game stores would be Magic only.
Get rid of all the low volume low profit stuff, including 40K and such, and it would just be Magic tables everywhere.
Because let's face it, Magic is actually carrying all these FLGS and the only solid profit center they have, so why bother with board games and miniature games.

It would be the Magic reference, Magic themed dungeon, very slightly discounted blisters, the room would be filled with tables of the appropriate size for a Magic tournament, and it would lead organized MTG events in the area.

That's a profitable FLGS in 2019, and unfortunately for some (maybe us too?), it doesn't have any kind of miniatures game in there.



Maybe the real problem is that wargamers aren't exactly easy to serve profitably, as evidenced by all the shops that only carry miniatures as a side-earner.

I went into a flgs recently when I went to see my dad, the citadel products had a 30ish percent discount (I was thinking great) till I got to the checkout, the guy charged me to use my card so the discount went down the drain.

There were youngers playing magic and pokemon, some lady on a working on a laptop. There were no miniatures being used, no comics being bought .

I wonder how long it will be open for

 Rybrook wrote:
I went into a flgs recently when I went to see my dad, the citadel products had a 30ish percent discount (I was thinking great) till I got to the checkout, the guy charged me to use my card so the discount went down the drain.

They charged you 30% to pay by card?
I've seen small fees of a few £ for payment by card, though these days that's mostly only for credit cards and, again, its only a small fee on the charge.

I think the issue is more that many games stores don't push wargames as much as card games because the profits are easier and greater on cards. It might also just be that then wasn't a "gaming hour" for wargames; which typically take more hours and tend to pick up a lot more on a game night for them as opposed to walk-in but it depends on the store and the population around them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Just Tony wrote:
Without the store we have no influx of new blood, since GW is completely against paying to advertise and depend on us grognards to do it for them. Without the influx of new blood, sales drop to where it could potentially endanger the existence of the product. I play older editions and have no real "skin" in the game as far as modern games go, but I still see the value of the company's continued existence.


I don't want to have to shop for alternative models just yet.

I don't know if its GW refusing or also the far more expensive nature of things like TV advertisements and other methods. Plus any advertising campaign only works if its maintained, one run of TV ads might only have a small effect before its forgotten, so it turns into something that has to be maintained long term to draw in a reliable return on investment. I suspect that starts to seriously eat into long term investment potential for new moulds for models.

Asides at present it seems that GW is focusing on cheaper ways to recruit- things like school support programs and the Duke of Edinburgh award scheme in the UK are great ways to outreach to new generations whilst making smaller investments. They also likely result in more long term repeat customers.

 Easy E wrote:
Does the FLGS provide you "Value"?

If it does, buy there.



[Rant]

I am a small business and entrepreneur. The deck is stacked against small businesses in the retail environment. Here is why. Once I accidentally got a bill for a large retail competitor of mine. They bought the same stuff as me, but got 20% off everything because of economies of scale. They buy bigger orders at once.

So essentially the volume of small businesses orders subsidizes the larger stores orders, and people expect Mom and Pop shops to somehow compete against this AND be cheaper than large, chain retailers? Ridiculous. No wonder retail and main street business is dying.

I could go on all day, but whatever.... no one cares......

[/end Rant]

Agreed, this is the new battlefront for what sometimes seems to be referred to as patriots
who are simply champions of local business contra big-money outsourcing and importing
which benefits only the number-pushing bean counters in big cities at the expense of everyone else,
on both sides of the supply and consumption chain.

I am a 'patriot' that way, too, regardless of nation of residence.
Sustainable business ethics... I am a fan.


As for buying GW stuff,
there is a GW store in a nearby town.
I have never been able to hang out in a GW store ... just once before, actually.
Not that it is so special, but it is a dedicated game shop, and I haven't had that within 3 hours of me in almost 15 years.

So, I go there to look at stuff, remember that I have no time and should be back at work,
end up buying paint that I don't really need on the plan that I will come in and paint on the painting days there
as ... well, I should have GW paints, right?

And, I am giving the store 100 euros a month for gift certificates in anticipation of the Sisters release.
Once that stuff is available, I expect to have saved enough with these to just get what I want,
on the hopes that I can actually take a couple of weeks vacation next year...
and relax, experiment with the cheap airbrush I got and just enjoy the hobby again.

In this time, if I want company, someone to talk to who shares the hobby, then there is the GW store.
So, I feel like I want to spend my money there, not that I have much to spend but...

 Rybrook wrote:
I went into a flgs recently when I went to see my dad, the citadel products had a 30ish percent discount (I was thinking great) till I got to the checkout, the guy charged me to use my card so the discount went down the drain.

What? you pay 30% to pay with card? I pay none

tneva82 wrote:

 Rybrook wrote:
I went into a flgs recently when I went to see my dad, the citadel products had a 30ish percent discount (I was thinking great) till I got to the checkout, the guy charged me to use my card so the discount went down the drain.

What? you pay 30% to pay with card? I pay none

Sounds like a cash only deal.

Purchase wherever you can find the cheapest prices. Simple.

I have no store loyalty. I will purchase from wherever I can get the cheapest price unless stock levels are insufficient.

 jeff white wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Rybrook wrote:
I went into a flgs recently when I went to see my dad, the citadel products had a 30ish percent discount (I was thinking great) till I got to the checkout, the guy charged me to use my card so the discount went down the drain.

What? you pay 30% to pay with card? I pay none

Sounds like a cash only deal.

Yeah technically a cash only deal, the bloke had a PayPal card reader so was probably taking the fee so he doesn't get charged for withdrawals

 Rybrook wrote:

 jeff white wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Rybrook wrote:
I went into a flgs recently when I went to see my dad, the citadel products had a 30ish percent discount (I was thinking great) till I got to the checkout, the guy charged me to use my card so the discount went down the drain.

What? you pay 30% to pay with card? I pay none

Sounds like a cash only deal.

Yeah technically a cash only deal, the bloke had a PayPal card reader so was probably taking the fee so he doesn't get charged for withdrawals

Sounds like they need to get better at business. That's the kind of amateur-hour stuff that is a problem any time someone tries to turn their hobby into their business, IME. I think you're right to question how long they'll be around with practices like that!

well any store that charges 30% for using card will go down in quick order.

tneva82 wrote:
well any store that charges 30% for using card will go down in quick order.

Unless they are right next to a cash point. Heck in the UK banks have been talking about reducing the number of cash machines in many areas, this is after they've closed a lot of bank branches (which means those cashpoints have already vanished). So getting at actual money is getting less practical and many more people pay for most things on card.

 Rybrook wrote:
I went into a flgs recently when I went to see my dad, the citadel products had a 30ish percent discount (I was thinking great) till I got to the checkout, the guy charged me to use my card so the discount went down the drain.

There were youngers playing magic and pokemon, some lady on a working on a laptop. There were no miniatures being used, no comics being bought .

I wonder how long it will be open for

Charging a surcharge for using a card is illegal in the UK, and has been for a while now.

Pay Where You Play for me.

Me? I play at home these days, or at the club. And even then only rarely.

No guilt for stuff like BSF, AT and Necromunda, as they're not stocked by my local GW (I believe very few do? Unsure).

But I do still buy stuff there. Manager is my former Boss, so nice to be nice. But not regularly. I just enjoy a discount.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rybrook wrote:

 jeff white wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Rybrook wrote:
I went into a flgs recently when I went to see my dad, the citadel products had a 30ish percent discount (I was thinking great) till I got to the checkout, the guy charged me to use my card so the discount went down the drain.

What? you pay 30% to pay with card? I pay none

Sounds like a cash only deal.

Yeah technically a cash only deal, the bloke had a PayPal card reader so was probably taking the fee so he doesn't get charged for withdrawals

Hey.......whoa their Pedro.

Couple of years back, law change meant retailers in the UK (and the EU, I think) aren't allowed to pass on card handling fees to consumers.

They can set a minimum spend, such as 'sorry, no cards under £20' - but they can't say, for instance '£19 for your Goodies, and £1 for paying by card'.

It was more like £17 or so and in all I paid £21 something, I wont be going back there, it's a 320mile trip and was a one off when I went to see my dad.

If it was GW then I probably would have paid for postage because under £40

Still not allowed. At all.

Report them to trading standards.

On top of online sales; FLGS have to deal with the big box stores like Walmart.

I have literally seen a teenager (high school age) get mad and argue with a game store owner that the Yugi oh cards packs at Walmart was cheaper and he needs to match their prices.
The owner said he wasn't going to change his prices and if he wasn't stopping the guy from leaving to buy from some where else.
Then the kid got really mad, said Walmart was to far for him to ride his bike and his mom wouldn't take him.

 Kriswall wrote:
Depends on your personal situation. I play almost exclusively with people I met at an FLGS. Take away the FLGS and you take away everyone I game with. I buy almost everything at said FLGS to do my part to keep it there. I consider the extra ~10-30% a "fee" to cover the many, many hours I've spent gaming in the store.

I've known a few people who play almost exclusively at home with friends they've known for years before they started gaming. Those guys buy mostly from online sources. They don't gain any added value from an FLGS.

I guess it comes down to how much you value all the extra stuff you get from an FLGS. I value the playing space and community very highly.

This first reply post sums up my personal view very well!

I really value my local store / community, and don't play at home, so focus my purchases there.

But for folks who play almost exclusively at home, it obviously makes a lot of sense to order online. Just depends on the person and situation!

 Genoside07 wrote:
On top of online sales; FLGS have to deal with the big box stores like Walmart.

I have literally seen a teenager (high school age) get mad and argue with a game store owner that the Yugi oh cards packs at Walmart was cheaper and he needs to match their prices.
The owner said he wasn't going to change his prices and if he wasn't stopping the guy from leaving to buy from some where else.
Then the kid got really mad, said Walmart was to far for him to ride his bike and his mom wouldn't take him.

Our walmart stopped selling all cards and game cards due to theft issues. It's gotten so bad, they have a checker at the door to scan each receipt as you leave. To make it even worse, I only ever see blacks, Hispanics or Indians getting scanned, they usually just wave me through no questions asked. It's more than a little uncomfortable.

Ask 'em why on their Facebook page - that'll get you an answer quickly, I'd think.

These games shops with gaming tables (apart from GW) are a mythical thing to me; the only one I've ever seen "locally" was in Lanark - at the other end of a frankly terrifying drive down country lanes in the dark and torrential rain. For the last twenty years, my gaming has been at a club, which removes all these moral dilemmas. I buy models from wherever I want, then I cough up two quid and play for five hours once a week. There's a place in a converted snooker hall in Stirling that seems to be doing pretty well; rather than a games shop with tables, it's a gaming venue with a shop attached. The selection's been slowly growing over the years, and they host national-level events for Magic, X-Wing, Kings of War, Middle Earth SBG and whatever else someone wants to run. I'd go there weekly if it were a little closer.

If it weren't for those venues, I think I'd have packed in tabletop gaming ages ago; if my only choice was a local shop, I think I'd consider higher prices worth paying in exchange for a venue. Or table fees, which removes the guilt of buying my toys elsewhere.

I support my FLGS because without it the community is dead in the water.

Price-points are an important consideration for me, but they are not THE consideration.