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Oh really? Let's say I'm running an Iron Hands or Ultramarines army.

I don't see any movement shenanigans that can get my Librarian to cast null zone on a target 30" away on turn 1.

This is a unique use of an Impulsor. Also in general it's a nice profile with OK Dakka for the cost.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
That's not as good though, is it? It's not 29+D6" effect on turn 1

There's already tons of movement shenanigans that cost very little CP, and heck there's even Warlord traits too. Why would you spend 100 points on something with that little use that can go to maybe a TFC, when the CP are a good resource to use instead?

what If I'm building a Ultima founding chapter?

what if I just want to run a mech heavy list because those are fun and don't particularly have the points to run a half dozen repulsors?

 Ishagu wrote:
Oh really? Let's say I'm running an Iron Hands or Ultramarines army.

I don't see any movement shenanigans that can get my Librarian to cast null zone on a target 30" away on turn 1.

This is a unique use of an Impulsor. Also in general it's a nice profile with OK Dakka for the cost.

Ultramarines have the Rapid Deployment Strat. Makes it a lot easier to get closer along with two other units. Neato, isn't it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
That's not as good though, is it? It's not 29+D6" effect on turn 1

There's already tons of movement shenanigans that cost very little CP, and heck there's even Warlord traits too. Why would you spend 100 points on something with that little use that can go to maybe a TFC, when the CP are a good resource to use instead?

what If I'm building a Ultima founding chapter?

what if I just want to run a mech heavy list because those are fun and don't particularly have the points to run a half dozen repulsors?

You going out of your way to not include Jump Pack HQs has no bearing on this conversation, sorry.

Jump pack doesn't get me as far, isn't a Primaris option. My only point is that the Impulsor has solid and unique uses in various armies.

You literally said it's a 0/10 useless unit.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
Oh really? Let's say I'm running an Iron Hands or Ultramarines army.

I don't see any movement shenanigans that can get my Librarian to cast null zone on a target 30" away on turn 1.

This is a unique use of an Impulsor. Also in general it's a nice profile with OK Dakka for the cost.

Ultramarines have the Rapid Deployment Strat. Makes it a lot easier to get closer along with two other units. Neato, isn't it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
That's not as good though, is it? It's not 29+D6" effect on turn 1

There's already tons of movement shenanigans that cost very little CP, and heck there's even Warlord traits too. Why would you spend 100 points on something with that little use that can go to maybe a TFC, when the CP are a good resource to use instead?

what If I'm building a Ultima founding chapter?

what if I just want to run a mech heavy list because those are fun and don't particularly have the points to run a half dozen repulsors?

You going out of your way to not include Jump Pack HQs has no bearing on this conversation, sorry.

no it has bearing dude, you don't get to tell people how to play their army, fact is 40k isn't about monobuilds etc. it's about giving you choice and intreasting ways to play. not everyone wants to sue the same 3 or 4 optimized units. you asked what use this could have, it's been answered.

Personally I think it is OP. It's too cheap for what it is and the ability to give it a 4+ invulnerable is just silly.

What's even sillier is that it can't carry normal marines. I get why a Rhino can't carry Primaris - they're too tall, but the opposite does not apply to the Impulsor

The whole primaris can't ride in old marine vehicles and old marines can't ride in primaris vehicles didn't make sense and still makes no sense.

Plenty of head room in a drop pod, yet primaris can't ride. What about a land raider ? Custodes can ride in them, much bigger than primaris yet primaris can't get in. Terminators can get in, still larger than primaris.

You have to do some rather large mental gymnastics to explain why they can't inter mix at least most of the transports in the old marine arsenal. I'd see regular primaris squeezing 5 in a rhino and maybe a razorback being too small for them, that's about it. No such issues with land raiders and absolutely zero reason why old marines can't get into primaris transports.

AngryAngel80 781393 10601094 wrote:
Plenty of head room in a drop pod, yet primaris can't ride. What about a land raider ? Custodes can ride in them, much bigger than primaris yet primaris can't get in. Terminators can get in, still larger than primaris.

.

well of course, a holy machine spirit driven artefact of a better age can not accept inside such a heretical abomination as the primaris.It makes perfect sense that it doesn't let them inside.

It's not a lore reason, it's a tabletop design reason. My guess is that they plan on one day separating the two ranges.

Yeah, a table top money grabbing reason. It has no sense reason aside from forcing you to buy overly expensive primaris transports if you want to move primaris. I mean, they could let old marines in but gotta incentive those new primaris models.

I get this is the sweet and cuddly new GW I'm talking about but aside from just assuming they have some grandiose grand plan, I don't think its any deeper than the dollar bills ya'll. I mean, if they could take rhinos for some primaris squads, I'd be taking them for sure.

Actually they'd make more money if it was the other way.

There are Primaris only players who aren't buying the old vehicles because they aren't compatible, and visa versa.

I voted for "Not OP".

It's a very nice transport (4++, FLY, 14" movement) albeit with a limited transport capacity. I don't think it is undercosted too.

I just find the Rhino to be vastly too expensive when you compare it to the Impulsor (and other similar transports) :/

 Ishagu wrote:
Actually they'd make more money if it was the other way.

There are Primaris only players who aren't buying the old vehicles because they aren't compatible, and visa versa.

I really don't think we are doing the same math. They want to sell new stuff to current players. Sure, they could miss out on new players buying into old transports. However, how many cheap rhinos could you find ? Tons, same for land raiders I don't think the new influx of primaris only players really out number all the old timers who have maybe dozens of these marine transports already, or the cheap and numerous availability of these old transports after decades in circulation. I had a longer response typed out but honestly, if you don't see it, I'll just have to content myself in my conspiracy theory, with many others I'm sure.

You cannot prove that limiting transports to certain units leads to more sales.

It has prevented me, personally, from buying a Spartan and a Land Raider Excelsior because it can't be used with Primaris.

There are multiple people who are not buying Primaris Repulsors because they can't transport their existing collections.

This is anecdotal, but you cannot say anything categorically. It's much more likely that GW will eventually separate the two ranges so this point becomes moot.

 Ishagu wrote:
You cannot prove that limiting transports to certain units leads to more sales.

It has prevented me, personally, from buying a Spartan and a Land Raider Excelsior because it can't be used with Primaris.

There are multiple people who are not buying Primaris Repulsors because they can't transport their existing collections.

This is anecdotal, but you cannot say anything categorically. It's much more likely that GW will eventually separate the two ranges so this point becomes moot.

you can't prove it but GW has made some odd decisions in the past, I can see them thinking that.

I can see them not thinking at all.

What we are tapdancing around the topic is that the troop transport is useful for many things but is not really "ideal".

It would be GREAT for delivering melee troops but it's rules preclude that and other units just deep-strike in.

The vehicle looks like a shoe-in as an open-top shooting platform but is not.

It is very good to get units to a location quickly but most SM units have a fair bit of reach and again the ones with serious short range dakka cannot ride in the thing.

Yes, the vehicle will help a great deal with the Primaris issue of their characters being less mobile (no jump-pack or bike).

It is a vast improvement for those fielding only Primaris like I am for my Ultramarines but my "Squat-marine" Black Templar have what appears to be much better equipment: Attack-bikes for some nice mobile dakka, Rhinos for transport and to shove in the face of hordes, then there is the "smash-captain" who does not need some futuristic pickup-truck to get where he needs to go (and then wait since he cannot jump out and melee).

It looks pretty strong to me, i think people are underestimating it a lot.
Fast flying Transport that can drop units on the fly, with invulnerable save, -2 to charge and the abillity to hit the backline with mortal wounds.
For 107 pts you can give him some anti infantry shooting with the stubber and frag grenade launcher.
It gives alot of utility and there will be very little games you wont get value from it.
I will rate it very very good, maybe OP only IH.

Marin wrote:
It looks pretty strong to me, i think people are underestimating it a lot.
Fast flying Transport that can drop units on the fly, with invulnerable save, -2 to charge and the abillity to hit the backline with mortal wounds.
For 107 pts you can give him some anti infantry shooting with the stubber and frag grenade launcher.
It gives alot of utility and there will be very little games you wont get value from it.
I will rate it very very good, maybe OP only IH.

I was looking at it as a way to round-out the shooting since it would carry only 6 models.
The SM rules makes the two storm bolters pretty nasty at 12" (8 shots are good to see), I do not think the frag launchers can measure-up to that.
Some cheap stubbers help to add to the dakka.
A vehicle that is not readily assaulted (unless the unit can fly) has it's uses as a blocker.

There are other units competing for the same points cost the Invictor is at ~126pts, so an Impulsor with as close to a similar loadout is ~85pts which looks promising, a Redemptor dreadnaught base cost is 140 pts.

 Talizvar wrote:

Marin wrote:
It looks pretty strong to me, i think people are underestimating it a lot.
Fast flying Transport that can drop units on the fly, with invulnerable save, -2 to charge and the abillity to hit the backline with mortal wounds.
For 107 pts you can give him some anti infantry shooting with the stubber and frag grenade launcher.
It gives alot of utility and there will be very little games you wont get value from it.
I will rate it very very good, maybe OP only IH.

I was looking at it as a way to round-out the shooting since it would carry only 6 models.
The SM rules makes the two storm bolters pretty nasty at 12" (8 shots are good to see), I do not think the frag launchers can measure-up to that.
Some cheap stubbers help to add to the dakka.
A vehicle that is not readily assaulted (unless the unit can fly) has it's uses as a blocker.

There are other units competing for the same points cost the Invictor is at ~126pts, so an Impulsor with as close to a similar loadout is ~85pts which looks promising, a Redemptor dreadnaught base cost is 140 pts.

Imagine tha you are playing vs other space marines for instance reaven guard or the opponent have alot of LOS shooting and you need to hide your own Exterminators or some hero you are scared of losing. You put them in this thing and in your turn you can move it in the needed location and drop your key unit/units without losing turns. Dropping slow moving HQs on the right spots where your units will benefit on the auras alot more.
You can use it to block assault armies path and it cant get wrapped, so the opponent will need to remove it.
In non CA formats it can help you get +1 to initiative roll.
In ITC you have cheap engineer unit that is -2 to charge and tough enough to not be removed by LOS fire.
You can find alot of use for this thing.
In CA format you have a way to drop cheap infantry squad on objective and score some cards on the fly, in the some turn you drawn the card.

I keep seeing people say that there's no reason to get close with primaris units. What about veteran intercessors. The sgt gets 5 thunder hammer attacks.

cmspano wrote:
I keep seeing people say that there's no reason to get close with primaris units. What about veteran intercessors. The sgt gets 5 thunder hammer attacks.

Because we are in our own imaginary world, where our units always have LOS, are in range, none is threatening to remove them from the table and assault don't exist .

AngryAngel80 wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
Actually they'd make more money if it was the other way.

There are Primaris only players who aren't buying the old vehicles because they aren't compatible, and visa versa.

I really don't think we are doing the same math. They want to sell new stuff to current players. Sure, they could miss out on new players buying into old transports. However, how many cheap rhinos could you find ? Tons, same for land raiders I don't think the new influx of primaris only players really out number all the old timers who have maybe dozens of these marine transports already, or the cheap and numerous availability of these old transports after decades in circulation. I had a longer response typed out but honestly, if you don't see it, I'll just have to content myself in my conspiracy theory, with many others I'm sure.

I'm with Ishagu on this. With the Matched Play restriction on Drop Pods removed, GW would sell TONS of Drop Pods if they could hold even just 5 PRIMARIS models.
They only reason for this not being a thing is because GW wants us to buy their over priced Impulsor instead

-

Marin wrote:

cmspano wrote:
I keep seeing people say that there's no reason to get close with primaris units. What about veteran intercessors. The sgt gets 5 thunder hammer attacks.

Because we are in our own imaginary world, where our units always have LOS, are in range, none is threatening to remove them from the table and assault don't exist .

Not to mention the strat for auto rifle intercessors to auto hit within 12". Not a bad one if you need some extra oomph to clear a screen for some charging units. Or to open up a character to being shot by something else.

 Galef wrote:
I'm with Ishagu on this. With the Matched Play restriction on Drop Pods removed, GW would sell TONS of Drop Pods if they could hold even just 5 PRIMARIS models.
They only reason for this not being a thing is because GW wants us to buy their over priced Impulsor instead

-

who knows, a dude at my store is so crazy with all the nerfs in changes to marines this edition that he claims, GW made 8th unfun to play with regular marines, just to soft squat them over time. If people stop playing with units or even armies, removing them from the game would, according to him, is easier to do, when no one plays the armies or units. But then again he also think that GW hates dwarf players, because the people at the store not being able to grown proper beards.

Karol wrote:

 Galef wrote:
I'm with Ishagu on this. With the Matched Play restriction on Drop Pods removed, GW would sell TONS of Drop Pods if they could hold even just 5 PRIMARIS models.
They only reason for this not being a thing is because GW wants us to buy their over priced Impulsor instead

-

who knows, a dude at my store is so crazy with all the nerfs in changes to marines this edition that he claims, GW made 8th unfun to play with regular marines, just to soft squat them over time. If people stop playing with units or even armies, removing them from the game would, according to him, is easier to do, when no one plays the armies or units. But then again he also think that GW hates dwarf players, because the people at the store not being able to grown proper beards.

So drop pods - the only thing with turn 1 deepstrike - and only for old marines...is a nerf. And there is absolutely nothing good to put in them?

You know what would really soft-squat old marines? Allowing Primaris into drop pods.

Good grief, people.

As I said, he is crazy, he bought a BA army with money he got for working all summer in germany, only for GW to nerf it like a week or so after he bought it. Now am not the most sane of people, so you can imagine what it means if I call him crazy. He is the son of the shop owners friend, so they don't kick him out. If I did stuff like he did, I would have a black pass instantly.

I mean, it's not THAT crazy of a concept for GW to be slowly making oldmarines unappealing so that EVENTUALLY they can phase them out with the justification that "they aren't selling well"

The issue I see with people on either "side" of this debate is that people claiming oldmarines aren't being phased out thinks it's a "case-closed" just because GW throws the occasional bone towards an oldmarine unit, while at the same time, people claiming oldmarines are getting mothballed keep crying out "see, see, GW only care about Primaris" every time a new Primaris kit is released.

It isn't going to be that black and white. Personally, I absolutely think oldmarines are going to get phased out. But I don't think it's happening anytime soon. Probably by 10th edition at the earliest, but it is going to happen since it just makes sense.

-

I assume that the reason why the Primaris cannot use drop pods is that there will eventually be a new type of a drop pod for them.

 Galef wrote:
I mean, it's not THAT crazy of a concept for GW to be slowly making oldmarines unappealing so that EVENTUALLY they can phase them out with the justification that "they aren't selling well"

The issue I see with people on either "side" of this debate is that people claiming oldmarines aren't being phased out thinks it's a "case-closed" just because GW throws the occasional bone towards an oldmarine unit, while at the same time, people claiming oldmarines are getting mothballed keep crying out "see, see, GW only care about Primaris" every time a new Primaris kit is released.

It isn't going to be that black and white. Personally, I absolutely think oldmarines are going to get phased out. But I don't think it's happening anytime soon. Probably by 10th edition at the earliest, but it is going to happen since it just makes sense.

-

Marines have a lot of good kits. Many of them recent.

This is a list of NEW bones for ONLY old marines:

Point cut to Tacs, Dread, Hunter, base Land Raider, WW, Stormtalon, Land Speeders, Grav guns, Grav cannons, MM, Dread CCWs
Drop pods deepstrike
Double tap TFC & WW
Grav cannon wound and damage
5+ mortal wound from each JP model
+1 to hit / +1 to wound for Hunters/Stalkers
+1 to hit for terminators
3++/4++ for bikes and speeders
scout bike mines

And the NEW bones for ONLY Primaris

rocket pods to D2
+1W to grav
3 shots to auto bolt
D2 to stalker bolt
unmod 6s to hit auto wound in fight phase
target characters with intercessors
double double tap bolt rifles
repulsor D3 MW missile
autohit with auto bolt rifles

That's just the Astartes book and all I care to look at right now. I'm sure I've missed a bunch. There's plenty to be had for old marines and people are nuts if they think primaris outshine them in every way.