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You thought Iron Hands were the "bad boyz" of vanilla astartes? Well, think again.

10 sternguards with flamers deal 30 mortal wounds with their combiflamers.

SmashCaptain with T7 (or even 8) 3++ S16 thunderhammer with 12 (!!!) Damage or -1 to wound against him.

Invincible agressors with 24 autohits flamers PER MODEL with optional +3 to wound.

So far so good, eh? What else did you notice in the new codex?

All im seeing is a whole lot of "melee and 8" range", which can be dunked on by a hard screen and a gunline.

They're strong, but IH were broken.

Oh, i forgot to mention: 4+ mortal wounds from flamers is an ARMY WIDE BONUS


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vaklor4 wrote:
All im seeing is a whole lot of "melee and 8" range", which can be dunked on by a hard screen and a gunline.

They're strong, but IH were broken.

Use "black dragons" successors with +3 range tactics + droppods.

Or footslog, since you are invincible thanks to their "self sacrifice" stratagem.

EricDominus wrote:
Oh, i forgot to mention: 4+ mortal wounds from flamers is an ARMY WIDE BONUS


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vaklor4 wrote:
All im seeing is a whole lot of "melee and 8" range", which can be dunked on by a hard screen and a gunline.

They're strong, but IH were broken.

Use "black dragons" successors with +3 range tactics + droppods.

Or footslog, since you are invincible thanks to their "self sacrifice" stratagem.

True but still only on flamers and meltas

If Salamanders are better with flamers than the new Sisters, I'm going to riot.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
If Salamanders are better with flamers than the new Sisters, I'm going to riot.

Well, IH "WERE" better at repairing their vehicles than ADEPTUS MECHANICUS THEMSELVES, so.... you can start in advance.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
If Salamanders are better with flamers than the new Sisters, I'm going to riot.

Seems inevitable, honestly.

Were does the 12 damage come from?

Spoletta wrote:
Were does the 12 damage come from?

Relic hammer that on a 6 becomes 6 damage + stratagem that on the same six doubles the damage dealt. 6*2=12

...which is slightly different from DAMAGE 12 THUNDERHAMMER ZOMG!

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
...which is slightly different from DAMAGE 12 THUNDERHAMMER ZOMG!

Not to mention all the other units, spells, stratagems, transports, etc to pull combos off.

Christ can we just wait before we freak out? Like one fething day?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
...which is slightly different from DAMAGE 12 THUNDERHAMMER ZOMG!

Not to mention all the other units, spells, stratagems, transports, etc to pull combos off.

Christ can we just wait before we freak out? Like one fething day?

Which units, spells, transports?

When did smashcaptains need all that?

At max you can take a librarian with "Might of Heroes" but everything else smashcaptain deals on his own.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
...which is slightly different from DAMAGE 12 THUNDERHAMMER ZOMG!

A slightly "different" one, yes. But, this hammer has Str 16, so it wounds everything on 2+. And each 2-5 will be flat 3 damage. And since its AP-4... well, i think you get what i mean.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
If Salamanders are better with flamers than the new Sisters, I'm going to riot.

Seems inevitable, honestly.

I’d like to see differently good myself, but starting from the same base weapon with only so many ways to boost it, I also suspect that Salamanders are going to burninate better than Sisters.

When you look at Salamanders from a design space, they are marines who like fire, and sideline in slightly better quality gear. So nearly all of their tricks and boosts are going to relate to that, to help establish them in their space.

Sisters also like to burn things, but have the third leg in the holy trinity with the bolter. So their weapon based boosts have to cover one more type. Plus they have the whole faith, zeal, purge the witch/heretic/mutant/etc thing that their codex is going to need to enhance. If we assume that every codex has roughly the same amount of traits/relics/stats to work with, Sisters is going to have fewer to dedicate to lighting things on fire or reducing them to slag.

Not to say that Sisters won’t be able to light things up, and do it well. They will probably pay less to get them on the table, so can spam more. The zeal aspect can probably be leveraged into getting them into range quicker. I suspect (or at least hope) that while the Salamanders might burn better the Sisters will burn more, quicker, and longer. They should be able to put more on the table, hopefully use tricks to push up the table, and have the numbers to take casualties and still keep the fire burning.

But we’ll find out in a month?

Hey! A new thing! Special issue wargear: 6" AoE 6+++ for everyone.

EricDominus wrote:
Hey! A new thing! Special issue wargear: 6" AoE 6+++ for everyone.

Wait a bubble for FNP?
Colour me intrigued.

EricDominus wrote:


A slightly "different" one, yes. But, this hammer has Str 16, so it wounds everything on 2+. And each 2-5 will be flat 3 damage. And since its AP-4... well, i think you get what i mean.

Which takes a warlord trait and relic and what else? How are you getting him to combat reliably?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

EricDominus wrote:


A slightly "different" one, yes. But, this hammer has Str 16, so it wounds everything on 2+. And each 2-5 will be flat 3 damage. And since its AP-4... well, i think you get what i mean.

Which takes a warlord trait and relic and what else? How are you getting him to combat reliably?

In order to get the crazy high strength, high damage TH you need a relic, a warlord trait and a strat. For getting him into combat just put him on a bike.

Well, thats no small cost and snipers are a thing and you need the other strat for double damage, right. And if you want more than 1 relic another CP.

Take a captain.

Make him your warlord.

Give him WT for +2 str.

Give him a jump pack, thunder hammer and storm shield.

Give him the relic hammer.

Spend one CP to give a second wt (+2 T for example)

Whenever he successfully charges - spend 1 CP for +1 str and double damage stratagem.


Its 5 attack with str 14 AP-4 3damage, 12 damage on a 6.

To unleash maximum cheese- slap him with “Might of Heroes”. This will up his str to 16 (wound knights on 2+), make him attack 6 times and will make him T7/3++.

You do all realize that part of what makes a Smashcaptain good is the reliable Deep Strike charge, right? He'd not be Black Templars, so he won't have rerolls to charge, and he won't be Blood Angels, so he won't have 3D6 charge distance.

Further, even with Might of Heroes, the Stratagem, the Relic and all the bells and whistles you're doing 20.5 wounds to a Knight on average. That's good, but not something that other Smash Captains couldn't already do. You can pop Honour the Chapter for a truly comical 41 wounds on average to a Knight, but that's wasting a tonne of resources on overkill.

For comparison, a Black Templars Smash Captain does 13 wounds without Honour the Chapter, so while you have an edge in damage, you're also spending extra points on a Librarian and having to have both the Librarian and Captain in position to charge the Knight, whereas the Black Templars one can just drop in and reliably get the charge. I don't have the maths for the Blood Angels guy, but he's better. Without a Librarian a Salamanders Smashcaptain only does 17 wounds to a Knight on average before Honour the Chapter, so you're ahead by four damage at the cost of reduced deployment flexibility.

Tempest in a teacup.

Salamanders have become all about positioning. If you can control the board, you will immolate your opponents pretty fething hard. I play salamanders exclusively and was doing well before the supplement. Now? Now I'm scared of being TFG in any non-competitive setting.

Like sure IH was pretty brainless for what you had to do compared to this, but if you can move properly the damage output is going to be insane.

As for the captain, you guys are getting it all wrong. With salamanders its not about straight damage, its about threat. Time to bring out the terminator armor. Give him the -1 to wound relic. Give him either the Imperium's Sword and + 2 toughness. Then have a chappy meet him in the drop zone with canticles of hate (the rest of your army is going to be nearby anyways) have a Librarian nearby to cast fire-shield and drakeskin (sometimes not needed).

You now have a T7 2+/3++ Ignoring Ap1, -1 to hit and wound smash captain with a +2 to charge rolls. Rerolling and Str10/6 attacks on the charge.

For 2 CP spent at the beginning of the game.

Sure some resources are spent on the support characters, but you should be taking those anyways and they will get value out of assisting other units as well.

And then you get to kill 10 Guardsmen. Whoopee.

Overdone comboes are overdone for a reason.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
And then you get to kill 10 Guardsmen. Whoopee.

Overdone comboes are overdone for a reason.

The captain doesn't just run into the guardsmen and disappear, your trying to overload threat and make it so he HAS to deal with that model, because he will have an inefficient time of doing so. That model can easily threaten tanks, and if you possess any board control he can't just run away as it will just put him right next to other threats. Turn 2 is when all your threats are going to come out, making those threats durable and forcing your opponent to make difficult decisions is going to only benefit you. Board space isn't infinite and choking out gunlines is a pretty viable way to win.

Although lets say that your right, and there is absolutely no way that the captain will be doing significant damage over the next two turns if I deepstrike him now. Fine, I can either Force my opponent to shoot at him with the strategem and protect all my other infantry. Or I could just keep him in DS for another turn while I use any aggregate fire for screen clearing and just get rid of the guardsmen. Then use the two character support elements for other parts of my army.

Lets also keep in mind that this is one match-up. There are several others that don't have efficient screening mechanisms nor effective ways to kill such a unit. Consider that same model getting stuck in amongst Ravagers, venoms, knights, etc., and the only efficient option is for them is to literally abandon the position which can win games in it's own right.

Vilehydra wrote:Salamanders have become all about positioning. If you can control the board, you will immolate your opponents pretty fething hard. I play salamanders exclusively and was doing well before the supplement. Now? Now I'm scared of being TFG in any non-competitive setting.

Like sure IH was pretty brainless for what you had to do compared to this, but if you can move properly the damage output is going to be insane.

As for the captain, you guys are getting it all wrong. With salamanders its not about straight damage, its about threat. Time to bring out the terminator armor. Give him the -1 to wound relic. Give him either the Imperium's Sword and + 2 toughness. Then have a chappy meet him in the drop zone with canticles of hate (the rest of your army is going to be nearby anyways) have a Librarian nearby to cast fire-shield and drakeskin (sometimes not needed).

You now have a T7 2+/3++ Ignoring Ap1, -1 to hit and wound smash captain with a +2 to charge rolls. Rerolling and Str10/6 attacks on the charge.

For 2 CP spent at the beginning of the game.

Sure some resources are spent on the support characters, but you should be taking those anyways and they will get value out of assisting other units as well.

Same here, with Salamanders you really need to have more threats than your opponent has shooting. Positioning and how you use those units are far more important when you need to be in medium range. as opposed to a distraction carnifex, you have a distraction army. I think Terminators are an excellent unit to benefit from the supplement. now I feel like my flame Aggressors are actually worth a damn(borderline OP).

Racerguy180 wrote:
Same here, with Salamanders you really need to have more threats than your opponent has shooting. Positioning and how you use those units are far more important when you need to be in medium range. as opposed to a distraction carnifex, you have a distraction army. I think Terminators are an excellent unit to benefit from the supplement. now I feel like my flame Aggressors are actually worth a damn(borderline OP).

Yeah - the first thing I'm going to do when the books arrive is running 10 hammer and shield terminators , and hide a ton of marines behind that wall. fully buffed they should be able to tank for quite a bit, preventing any shots at the guys behind them.

right, add the flame shield pyromancy & spend the cp for sacrificial wounds and you have a pretty mean area of denial. it feels right. There is a ton of stuff that we use already, and now it really benefits us.
I think all forms of Termies & gravis are now actually thematic & effective for the 18th.
I do wish you could put flamestorms on Inceptors, even tho that would step on the toes of Seraphim.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
If Salamanders are better with flamers than the new Sisters, I'm going to riot.

I fear you will have to riot. Space Marines will have better bolters, better flamers, better close combat and better vehicles.

I'm pretty sure Immolators & Exorcists are better than the Marine equiv.

I would kill to have my Helios do the damage that my buddy's Exorcist put out.

EricDominus wrote:
Oh, i forgot to mention: 4+ mortal wounds from flamers is an ARMY WIDE BONUS

No, it is not. It's a 1CP Stratagem that affects ONE model in your entire army, and doesn't even benefit from the +1 To Wound bonus from the Tactical Doctrine.

Salamanders? Strong using their fluff friendly weapons?

And this is bad, why?