Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Has anyone been in a local game where there was a no marine army rule? If so how did it go?

Wouldn't that just be an Eldar curbstomp

You might get the odd region where there isn't a marine player in the local club or they don't come to the event; but I don't think I've ever heard of a club banning a whole faction.

I know some might restrict forgeworld armies; or white dwarf armies and such; but a core army like marines never. The closest might be rules that limit some alliance options (eg no allied detachments etc...).

Asides marines are super popular in general and most groups will have multiple marine players so its not just excluding an army its excluding players.

That’s the point isn’t it? There’s a very large factor in the meta, and wouldn’t it be interesting if the meta were a bit different, and if you saw some novel situations?

I would rather encourage other armies than ban marines. Asides whilst it might have some influence on the meta it wouldn't likely be seen in one event; you'd need a string of them to establish a new meta.

Also most of the "meta" is just the same rough core concepts being played out so you might not see anything massively different by just removing one army block from the game.

Banning an entire faction from a tourny is stupid period. Banning one of the most popular armies that makes up a considerable portion of your player base is BEYOND stupid. seriously this has to be the dumbest idea I've ever heard of. Besides what is it you'd hope to achomplish with this? I won't make armies more varied. it won't improve the game at all (marine lists being broken is hardly a common theme in 40k.) as far as I can tell the only person who'd benifit is your local store which would end up selling more hoard armies

It is a terrible idea, block a large chunk of the player base, alienate a lot of players at the same time. I have many other armies that I could run but any tournament that would outright ban a faction regardless of the faction that was banned I would not go to that tournament.

I wouldn't have a problem with banning Marines for a single tournament, just to see what it was like. Nor would I have problem if any other army was banned, just to produce a different environment from the norm.

Probably the best way to do it would be to have a tournament themed around a campaign. You could do Eldar and Imperial Guard against Tyranids and Genestealers, for example, and organize the players into two teams. Then the players would fight out the campaign over the course of the tournament.

Pretty much every tournament for historical (ancient and medieval) games that I go to restricts armies in this fashion. Sometimes it's only armies with chariots, or only Rome and her enemies, or only armies from 1000 to 1500 AD. Usually the themes are pretty broad to allow more people to play, but they don't shy away from being extremely specific.

A thematic narrative style tourny is a bit of a differant beast. such as "War for Battletoria!" a narrative event about the guard fighting an Orc invasion that specificly demands Orks vs Guard there is a huuge differance between that and just a "yeah go away we don't like X" tourny. To be honest this entire thread is indicative of a pretty unhealthy additude among a contingent of the 40k community

 Sobekta wrote:
Has anyone been in a local game where there was a no marine army rule? If so how did it go?

I've played countless games over the years with no Marines involved. 1v1s, assorted teams, multi-player, free for alls....
They played just fine (or at least as fine as any given edition of 40k can).
Result: one player/team won each time.
Result: Everyone had fun.

As for a tourney banning Marines? No, I've never been to one with that restriction. Or even heard of it beyond jest.
I predict it'd play out as I described above - except there'd be a lot of bitching & moaning from those who's primary force is Marines....

I've played in no marines meta before. One of the best times I can remember. That said I bans on marine players would be bad unless they're on board.

Point on the board where the nasty marine army gave you a booty blasting.

Seriously, its getting tiresome with all this marine bashing. OK, we get it, marines are strong now but Christ on a bike will people just carry on? IH have been nerfed, and can we stop with the daily how to curb marine power / IH are OP! /and assorted anti marine stuff.

It's to a point now all this griping has surpassed the genuine problem (which was the IH meta changing strength) and is now a very thinly veiled attempt to get space marines back to pre 2019 Codex strength, that relied on a couple of gimmick lists.

An excellent idea for a one off event!

You could even graft some narrative to the event; all the forces involved have broadcast their pleas for assistance. Everyone is waiting for their marine allies to show up. The marine reinforcements show up first for whoever wins the event, ending the conflict in the sector for good. That winning player gets to take home a marine army box for their prize!

 Dr. Mills wrote:
Point on the board where the nasty marine army gave you a booty blasting.

Seriously, its getting tiresome with all this marine bashing. OK, we get it, marines are strong now but Christ on a bike will people just carry on? IH have been nerfed, and can we stop with the daily how to curb marine power / IH are OP! /and assorted anti marine stuff.

It's to a point now all this griping has surpassed the genuine problem (which was the IH meta changing strength) and is now a very thinly veiled attempt to get space marines back to pre 2019 Codex strength, that relied on a couple of gimmick lists.

no kidding, we get it, some people don't like Marines. but they're kinda a big part of 40k. I knbow it's popular to be edgy and complain about a setting focusing on the posterboys, be it Jedi in Star Wars or Marines in 40k, but it doens't impress anyone, it doesn't make you look like a "True fan" etc

Seems like an odd idea. Now Ogryn only tournaments, those sound like real tests of skill.

AngryAngel80 wrote:
Seems like an odd idea. Now Ogryn only tournaments, those sound like real tests of skill.

R&h wins
Period. Have you seen how many Berzerkers you can put in a squad

BrianDavion wrote:

 Dr. Mills wrote:
Point on the board where the nasty marine army gave you a booty blasting.

Seriously, its getting tiresome with all this marine bashing. OK, we get it, marines are strong now but Christ on a bike will people just carry on? IH have been nerfed, and can we stop with the daily how to curb marine power / IH are OP! /and assorted anti marine stuff.

It's to a point now all this griping has surpassed the genuine problem (which was the IH meta changing strength) and is now a very thinly veiled attempt to get space marines back to pre 2019 Codex strength, that relied on a couple of gimmick lists.

no kidding, we get it, some people don't like Marines. but they're kinda a big part of 40k. I knbow it's popular to be edgy and complain about a setting focusing on the posterboys, be it Jedi in Star Wars or Marines in 40k, but it doens't impress anyone, it doesn't make you look like a "True fan" etc

Perhaps people have genuine reason for disliking the posterboys?

 Bobthehero wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Dr. Mills wrote:
Point on the board where the nasty marine army gave you a booty blasting.

Seriously, its getting tiresome with all this marine bashing. OK, we get it, marines are strong now but Christ on a bike will people just carry on? IH have been nerfed, and can we stop with the daily how to curb marine power / IH are OP! /and assorted anti marine stuff.

It's to a point now all this griping has surpassed the genuine problem (which was the IH meta changing strength) and is now a very thinly veiled attempt to get space marines back to pre 2019 Codex strength, that relied on a couple of gimmick lists.

no kidding, we get it, some people don't like Marines. but they're kinda a big part of 40k. I knbow it's popular to be edgy and complain about a setting focusing on the posterboys, be it Jedi in Star Wars or Marines in 40k, but it doens't impress anyone, it doesn't make you look like a "True fan" etc

Perhaps people have genuine reason for disliking the posterboys?

I'd rather see people celebrate what they like instead of whine about what they dislike. but that's just me.

Got an even more interesting idea! Why not ban the shooting phase for a tournament? That is sure to shake up the meta!
.
.
.
.
.
.
No, i'm not being serious in case you need it spelled out.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Dr. Mills wrote:
Point on the board where the nasty marine army gave you a booty blasting.

Seriously, its getting tiresome with all this marine bashing. OK, we get it, marines are strong now but Christ on a bike will people just carry on? IH have been nerfed, and can we stop with the daily how to curb marine power / IH are OP! /and assorted anti marine stuff.

It's to a point now all this griping has surpassed the genuine problem (which was the IH meta changing strength) and is now a very thinly veiled attempt to get space marines back to pre 2019 Codex strength, that relied on a couple of gimmick lists.

no kidding, we get it, some people don't like Marines. but they're kinda a big part of 40k. I knbow it's popular to be edgy and complain about a setting focusing on the posterboys, be it Jedi in Star Wars or Marines in 40k, but it doens't impress anyone, it doesn't make you look like a "True fan" etc

Its nothing to do with hating a faction and everything to do with people getting sick of GW. Its almost as if GW focusing on one faction to the detriment of all others is alienating, or something. Who'd have thunk it?

You Marine fanboys are terrible too, the amount of strawmanning done in an attempt to play the victim is enough to start a farm. That doesn't help things.

You might not get it if you play them, but playing against Marines right now with any other faction is simply not a balanced game. I can see why people wouldn't want to participate in a tournament with them. It's like the index vs codex days.

Why not ban tournaments? they bring out the worst in most people.

BrianDavion wrote:
To be honest this entire thread is indicative of a pretty unhealthy additude among a contingent of the 40k community

IMO, the indignant "how very dare you!" responses to the OP (and to some other recent threads like Englishman's marine fatigue one) say far more about the unhealthy entitlement complex of some marine players. And I say that as a (primarily) marine player myself.

There's nothing wrong with people deciding to limit which armies/factions are welcome at a particular event. I do think it would be dumb for a large (i.e. regional/national) tournament to ban a faction as popular as marines, but has anybody actually suggested that? If a store wants to run a non-marine event/tournament because they think it will be an interesting change (because maybe they're tired of the top three spots going to the same faction over and over; or because they want to encourage people to start xenos armies to create some more variety in future in-store games; or even just because they have a back room full of ork and tyranid kits they want to flog), then why shouldn't they?

Note that the OP asks specifically about local games, not big tourneys.

 Duskweaver wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
To be honest this entire thread is indicative of a pretty unhealthy additude among a contingent of the 40k community

IMO, the indignant "how very dare you!" responses to the OP (and to some other recent threads like Englishman's marine fatigue one) say far more about the unhealthy entitlement complex of some marine players. And I say that as a (primarily) marine player myself.

There's nothing wrong with people deciding to limit which armies/factions are welcome at a particular event. I do think it would be dumb for a large (i.e. regional/national) tournament to ban a faction as popular as marines, but has anybody actually suggested that? If a store wants to run a non-marine event/tournament because they think it will be an interesting change (because maybe they're tired of the top three spots going to the same faction over and over; or because they want to encourage people to start xenos armies to create some more variety in future in-store games; or even just because they have a back room full of ork and tyranid kits they want to flog), then why shouldn't they?

Note that the OP asks specifically about local games, not big tourneys.

I agree. This is particularly the case in narrative tournaments which can be thematically undermined by trying to shoehorn every faction in, no matter how improbable, just because someone wants to play Catachans in a Webway war.

Marines are just another faction, I wouldn't get in tizz if I couln't play Drukhari in a Horus Heresy scenario, but the entitled screeching of some Marine players is ridiculous.

Just ban the supplements excluding the units, without those they're more or less perfectly fair. An IF player topped an event prior to the release of the supplement, they are clearly not required to compete and they just ruin the fun for everyone else.

BrianDavion wrote:
Banning an entire faction from a tourny is stupid period. Banning one of the most popular armies that makes up a considerable portion of your player base is BEYOND stupid. seriously this has to be the dumbest idea I've ever heard of. Besides what is it you'd hope to achomplish with this? I won't make armies more varied. it won't improve the game at all (marine lists being broken is hardly a common theme in 40k.) as far as I can tell the only person who'd benifit is your local store which would end up selling more hoard armies

Unfamiliar with IH win-rates? Stronger than every other army than any other army has been compared to its meta in the history of 8th, they get a love tap of a nerf and suddenly SM players are squeeling like pigs as their OP BS is getting taken away from them. If 20% of the players at a tournament ruin it for 80% those 20% should be banned. Whether that's by drinking beer, unsportsmanlike conduct or bringing an OP army.

When FW was OP it was nerfed because it was pay-to-win, when the best counter for Marines are either mirror-match or another kind of Marines that's just as bad.

 Sobekta wrote:
Has anyone been in a local game where there was a no marine army rule? If so how did it go?

Wew lad

Space marines have been powerful for what, a whole 2 months and people are already acting like it's the end of the world.

I think some of the indignation is coming from the fact that the OP is talking about excluding an army, whilst in reality armies are people, players. Not everyone runs more than one army and even if they have multiple armies they might not have enough points for a 2K (that being the average) tournament list. So excluding a whole army is also excluding those players.

Marines is considered daft because its very popular; however Tyranid or Eldar or any other race being excluded would also generate some ire.

A story driven campaign might work, but I'd wager any faction exclusion would only be happenstance based on the playerbase (ergo there is no army X because no one plays army X).

 Overread wrote:
I think some of the indignation is coming from the fact that the OP is talking about excluding an army, whilst in reality armies are people, players. Not everyone runs more than one army and even if they have multiple armies they might not have enough points for a 2K (that being the average) tournament list. So excluding a whole army is also excluding those players.

Given the phrasing in the initial post, it isn't one army. There are multiple "marine" factions these days. It'd mean excluding:

- Codex: Space Marines (and supplements)
- Codex: Blood Angels
- Codex: Dark Angels
- Codex: Space Wolves
- Codex: Deathwatch
- Codex: Grey Knights
- Codex: Chaos Space Marines
- Codex: Death Guard
- Codex: Thousand Sons

That's a hell of an exclusion list.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I think some of the indignation is coming from the fact that the OP is talking about excluding an army, whilst in reality armies are people, players. Not everyone runs more than one army and even if they have multiple armies they might not have enough points for a 2K (that being the average) tournament list. So excluding a whole army is also excluding those players.

Given the phrasing in the initial post, it isn't one army. There are multiple "marine" factions these days. It'd mean excluding:

- Codex: Space Marines (and supplements)
- Codex: Blood Angels
- Codex: Dark Angels
- Codex: Space Wolves
- Codex: Deathwatch
- Codex: Grey Knights
- Codex: Chaos Space Marines
- Codex: Death Guard
- Codex: Thousand Sons

That's a hell of an exclusion list.

which By the way, based off a poll done on dakka-dakka awhile back amounts for.. close to 50% of the player base.

I oppose, strongly, banning an entire army from a tourny, but banning Marines is just ludercris.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vict0988 wrote:
Just ban the supplements excluding the units, without those they're more or less perfectly fair. An IF player topped an event prior to the release of the supplement, they are clearly not required to compete and they just ruin the fun for everyone else.

BrianDavion wrote:
Banning an entire faction from a tourny is stupid period. Banning one of the most popular armies that makes up a considerable portion of your player base is BEYOND stupid. seriously this has to be the dumbest idea I've ever heard of. Besides what is it you'd hope to achomplish with this? I won't make armies more varied. it won't improve the game at all (marine lists being broken is hardly a common theme in 40k.) as far as I can tell the only person who'd benifit is your local store which would end up selling more hoard armies

Unfamiliar with IH win-rates? Stronger than every other army than any other army has been compared to its meta in the history of 8th, they get a love tap of a nerf and suddenly SM players are squeeling like pigs as their OP BS is getting taken away from them. If 20% of the players at a tournament ruin it for 80% those 20% should be banned. Whether that's by drinking beer, unsportsmanlike conduct or bringing an OP army.

When FW was OP it was nerfed because it was pay-to-win, when the best counter for Marines are either mirror-match or another kind of Marines that's just as bad.

Iron Hands? thats the supplement that GW just nerfed right? I 100% agree Iron Hands was entirely too strong, and GW nerfed it. it's now good, but I suspect not obscenely so.

and for the record I opposed banning eldar from tournies back when Eldar where OP. banning individual units? sure! no problem there. banning supplements in a tourny? I'm down with that. but banning tim';s blood raven assault marine army because you have a issue with iron hands being OP is just lunacy.

I wish mods did more in this forum to discourage troll threads and just end them when they get off track.

Although I'm sure this thread is just fine and will be very friendly, useful, and productive. And yes I'm aware of the iron of my post.

I haven't played in one, but I have seen one at my store. 18 armies. all eldar, IG+castellan, orcs ad mecha+castellan, a single knight list and a single chaos soup. Seemed to have worked fine. No idea how it would work in big western stores with their 100+ people playing.