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Scabeiathrax's (FW Forces of Chaos Index) datasheet says he selects his powers from the Chaos Daemons index.

This book was obviously written before a proper Chaos Daemons codex existed, but now that one does is it addressed in a FAQ somewhere that he can pick powers from the codex?

Is he still locked in to the index powers?

I've scoured the FAQs and the internet and can't see any indication that this is addressed.

It's Forgeworld, so this is not surprising.

RAW you still need to use the Index powers. Whether your group will let you use the Codex is up to them.

I think that any reasonable opponent would be fine with you using the updated psychic powers. If you are facing an unreasonable opponent then I don't see anything in the FAQ that would override the original wording.

The rules for a lot of the Forge World stuff are a bit jank, so you are stuck with what you get.

There is no FW FAQ which allows you to use codex psychic powers, so you must use index psychic powers. Same is true for GW index units. The flowchart on the last page of the BRB doesnt give you permission to use codex psychic powers.

 p5freak wrote:
There is no FW FAQ which allows you to use codex psychic powers, so you must use index psychic powers. Same is true for GW index units. The flowchart on the last page of the BRB doesnt give you permission to use codex psychic powers.

This is the full and correct answer. The rules don't give you permission to use the Codex powers, so you cannot.

The latest rules for psychic power disciplines are in the Codexes, so you use latest rules.

This topic has come up time and time again and the same folk keep trying to prevent people using their toys. Make of it what you will.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The latest rules for psychic power disciplines are in the Codexes, so you use latest rules.

This topic has come up time and time again and the same folk keep trying to prevent people using their toys. Make of it what you will.

This if you read your codex it specifically state that variations on Models / Psykers in [insert faction] take powers from their codex and/or supplement. The index rules are superseded.

ThatMG wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The latest rules for psychic power disciplines are in the Codexes, so you use latest rules.

This topic has come up time and time again and the same folk keep trying to prevent people using their toys. Make of it what you will.

This if you read your codex it specifically state that variations on Models / Psykers in [insert faction] take powers from their codex. The index rules are superseded.

[Citation Needed] please. The index rules have not been changed and the index rules literally tell you what page to generate your powers from.

What discipline a psyker generates their powers is listed on their datasheet.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

ThatMG wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The latest rules for psychic power disciplines are in the Codexes, so you use latest rules.

This topic has come up time and time again and the same folk keep trying to prevent people using their toys. Make of it what you will.

This if you read your codex it specifically state that variations on Models / Psykers in [insert faction] take powers from their codex. The index rules are superseded.

[Citation Needed] please. The index rules have not been changed and the index rules literally tell you what page to generate your powers from.

p.g. 186 new SM Dex

"before the battle, generate psychic powers for <chapter> Psyker model's that know powers from the Librarius discipline using the table below. (random or choice.)"

Obscuration is for Phobos that didn't exist in index so wee...

P.g. 78 Ultramarine Dex.

"Librarian models in Ultramarines Detachments can know all of their psychic powers from the Indomitus discipline instead of the Librarius Or Obscuration disciplines" "Same generation for Indomitus."

People who try to push the index is raw, are making an interpretation mistake.

The is no RAW argument that you must/are forced take from the rule written in the index.

In addition the way the above the actual codex rules overwrite the basic index versions anyway in how "powers are generated".
As rather the supposed raw is trying to push these powers are part of a models "datasheet" or wargear thus the raw argument would be correct however these powers are not wargear etc. The operations in the codex define how you play with "psykers" and their function in the most up to date rules. This doesn't care where the datasheet source comes from so long as you belong to the factions have the right keywords or name.

The Librarius Dicipline in the codex is not the same one in the Index.

Please, quote the rule on the Librarian on Bike from the index verbatim.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
The Librarius Dicipline in the codex is not the same one in the Index.

Please, quote the rule on the Librarian on Bike from the index verbatim.

It doesn't matter as it is defunct, the method of generating powers is clearly written in the codex. You referencing out of date rules that reference an out of date page, the "index version of the Librarius Dicipline".

If you are suggesting semantics that the raw is that Librarius Dicipline (Index) is not the same as Librarius Dicipline (Codex.)

Then by the basic extension of building an army with most up to date rules. Codex by definition will always raw define how space marine psykers work.
regardless what the index says. The librarian on the bike does not have a codex datasheet however the method of allocating powers is done before the battle following codex rules. Not datasheet rules.

ThatMG wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
The Librarius Dicipline in the codex is not the same one in the Index.

Please, quote the rule on the Librarian on Bike from the index verbatim.

It doesn't matter as it is defunct, the method of generating powers is clearly written in the codex. You referencing out of date rules that reference an out of date page, the "index version of the Librarius Dicipline".

If you are suggesting semantics that the raw is that Librarius Dicipline (Index) is not the same as Librarius Dicipline (Codex.)

Then by the basic extension of building an army with most up to date rules. Codex by definition will always raw define how space marine psykers work.
regardless what the index says. The librarian on the bike does not have a codex datasheet however the method of allocating powers is done before the battle following codex rules. Not datasheet rules.

Again, please quote the Psyker rule for Librarian on Bike from Index: Imperium 1 verbatim.

ThatMG wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
The Librarius Dicipline in the codex is not the same one in the Index.

Please, quote the rule on the Librarian on Bike from the index verbatim.

It doesn't matter as it is defunct, the method of generating powers is clearly written in the codex. You referencing out of date rules that reference an out of date page, the "index version of the Librarius Dicipline".

If you are suggesting semantics that the raw is that Librarius Dicipline (Index) is not the same as Librarius Dicipline (Codex.)

Then by the basic extension of building an army with most up to date rules. Codex by definition will always raw define how space marine psykers work.
regardless what the index says. The librarian on the bike does not have a codex datasheet however the method of allocating powers is done before the battle following codex rules. Not datasheet rules.

No. The flowchart on the last page of the BRB FAQ gives you specific instructions how to use index units. FAQs override codex rules.

Q: Can an Index unit be equipped with a weapon from a codex
weapons list (i.e. a Chaos Lord on Bike being equipped with a
thunder hammer not previously available to them)?
A: No.

Think of index units as "old school", they dont know the new stuff.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
The Librarius Dicipline in the codex is not the same one in the Index.

Please, quote the rule on the Librarian on Bike from the index verbatim.

Irrelevant. The SM codex gives instructions (that were quoted above that Psykers that have the Librarius discipline use the table in the Codex. Librarian on a bike is a psyker, so getting psyker powers it would follow the instructions in the codex about pskers and use the Librarius discipline there as the statement in the Codex overrides what it says in the index.

 doctortom wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
The Librarius Dicipline in the codex is not the same one in the Index.

Please, quote the rule on the Librarian on Bike from the index verbatim.

Irrelevant. The SM codex gives instructions (that were quoted above that Psykers that have the Librarius discipline use the table in the Codex. Librarian on a bike is a psyker, so getting psyker powers it would follow the instructions in the codex about pskers and use the Librarius discipline there as the statement in the Codex overrides what it says in the index.

Except the Librarius Discipline in the codex is not the same as the Librarius Discipline in the Index. The Librarian on Bike only has access to the Index Librarius Discipline. The same way that a Plasma Gun for Space Marines is not the same as a Plasma Gun for Imperial Guardsmen (different points costs).

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
The Librarius Dicipline in the codex is not the same one in the Index.

Please, quote the rule on the Librarian on Bike from the index verbatim.

Irrelevant. The SM codex gives instructions (that were quoted above that Psykers that have the Librarius discipline use the table in the Codex. Librarian on a bike is a psyker, so getting psyker powers it would follow the instructions in the codex about pskers and use the Librarius discipline there as the statement in the Codex overrides what it says in the index.

Except the Librarius Discipline in the codex is not the same as the Librarius Discipline in the Index. The Librarian on Bike only has access to the Index Librarius Discipline. The same way that a Plasma Gun for Space Marines is not the same as a Plasma Gun for Imperial Guardsmen (different points costs).

Again, that's irrelevant. It has the same name, so the instructions are telling you to use the one in the Codex for psyker models.

House rule it, if you don't like it. But RAW is index powers for index units.

Codex: Chaos Daemons has this blurb re Psychic Powers;

"Before the battle, generate the psychic powers for PSYKERS that can use powers from the Tzeentch, Nurgle or Slaanesh discipline using the table below."

Emphasis in original.

Scabiethrax is a PSYKER who "knows the Smite psychic power and two psychic powers from the Nurgle Discipline".

Scabiethrax can use Codex powers. All Index Daemon units can. End of.

 p5freak wrote:
House rule it, if you don't like it. But RAW is index powers for index units.

Except raw, you do not read datasheets for you psychic powers, because the game system psychic powers are generated "before battle" following codex rules since their release.

E.g. Step 1 during army creation

-SM Codex my army
-SPEZ Marines faction
-My Spez marines librarian generate powers dictated from codex space marines "before the battle".
-It does not matter what the Index rules say, as the codex generation of powers is not optional, it is a mechanic that just happens before battle, an operation you must follow...just by having that unit/model in your army.

*Simply put, Index rules where a stop gap between editions, that had powers stated on a datasheet level, post v2 codex and current rules have psychic powers generated at a mechanic time window that superspeed any individual data sheet.*

The FAQ you quoted against me was talking about wargear. Psychic powers are not wargear.

You are literally inventing HIWPI as RAW. When you demand that the datasheet overrides codex mechanic about "generating psychic powers" rule.

You use the codex powers.

For sure codex powers man. Again, don’t listen to these nay sayers

 p5freak wrote:
House rule it, if you don't like it. But RAW is index powers for index units.

No it isn’t. As everyone in the thread has ably demonstrated.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
House rule it, if you don't like it. But RAW is index powers for index units.

No it isn’t. As everyone in the thread has ably demonstrated.

You demonstrated nothing. You havent provided any rule citation to back up your claims. The flowchart is RAW what index units have access to. I also have provided a FAQ that index units dont get to access codex wargear. Its only logical that this applies to psychic powers as well.

The codex tells you how to assign psychic powers to the psykers of the faction in question. You need to follow the rules in the codex. Do you also think that Index characters cannot take codex warlord traits?

 p5freak wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
House rule it, if you don't like it. But RAW is index powers for index units.

No it isn’t. As everyone in the thread has ably demonstrated.

You demonstrated nothing. You havent provided any rule citation to back up your claims. The flowchart is RAW what index units have access to. I also have provided a FAQ that index units dont get to access codex wargear. Its only logical that this applies to psychic powers as well.

Logical? As so it’s your interpretation... you are arguing RAI not RAW as you have provided proof for war gear but not powers. In essence you have provided nothing... so RAW citation needed otherwise I don’t see why you’re still here

 Crimson wrote:
The codex tells you how to assign psychic powers to the psykers of the faction in question. You need to follow the rules in the codex. Do you also think that Index characters cannot take codex warlord traits?

Irrelevant. FAQs (flowchart) overrides codex rules. And yes, no codex warlord trait for index units.

 p5freak wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
The codex tells you how to assign psychic powers to the psykers of the faction in question. You need to follow the rules in the codex. Do you also think that Index characters cannot take codex warlord traits?

Irrelevant. FAQs (flowchart) overrides codex rules. And yes, no codex warlord trait for index units.

Wrong, citation needed for wording stating to ignore the most up to date rules please.

While I think it is stupid and it is not how I would play it, RAW they only get Index powers.

1.The Flowchart states if there is no codex entry use the index rules.
2.The index entry for Libby on bike specifies the powers on pg10 of the index.
3.There is an FAQ stating that index units cannot use codex options in wargear. (not pysker powers but a very similar situation)

These together mean, to me, that you use the Index Powers.

Now I feel this is stupid and my group wouldn't do this, if I was in an organised event and someone was doing this I would check with the TO, but wouldn't be put out if it was allowed.

Dadavester wrote:
While I think it is stupid and it is not how I would play it, RAW they only get Index powers.

1.The Flowchart states if there is no codex entry use the index rules.
2.The index entry for Libby on bike specifies the powers on pg10 of the index.
3.There is an FAQ stating that index units cannot use codex options in wargear. (not pysker powers but a very similar situation)

These together mean, to me, that you use the Index Powers.

Now I feel this is stupid and my group wouldn't do this, if I was in an organised event and someone was doing this I would check with the TO, but wouldn't be put out if it was allowed.

Finally someone who understands!

You're always free to make up house rules or ignore the RaW, but it doesn't change what the RaW is.

Scabiethrax is a weird, weird, weird looking Librarian on a Bike.

I guess we're just conveniently ignoring that shkle is a DAEMON, and that the rules re Codex powers if you're a DAEMON have been posted and very, very clearly tell you to generate powers from the Nurgle discipline in the Codex.

Oh, also that Psychic Powers aren't Wargear.

This is why everyone hates YMDC.