Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Karol wrote:
Then why not just drop a bit unit of centurions turn 2, alongside a chaplain, get them buffed by bolter drill, buffed by the chaplain, buffed from the RG trait and the doctrine, and then just unload 15 hits on avarge in to any character 12" away from the centurions?

because that set up is ILLEGAL? Bolter Drill is an Imperial fists strat. it won't work with raven guard

I think its an odd trade off.

Certain armies hate snipers. A typical Chaos Soup where you are fluffing your invuls for example. Ahriman dead first turn? kind of hurts. Daemon princes dropping by the end of turn 2? Ditto.

Others, I'm not all that convinced. Warlocks, IG commanders, Tau Fireblades? Okay, yeah they die - but its 100 points killing something costing 30-40.

Its the same old problem as all snipers - sure, you get these cheap characters, but its not much more efficient in terms of points returned than just shooting regular stuff with regular stuff. With the added negative that its a bit fiddly (LOS blocking buff bots is easier than whole units) and certain armies don't care *that* much if their HQ options die.

Tyel wrote:
I think its an odd trade off.

Certain armies hate snipers. A typical Chaos Soup where you are fluffing your invuls for example. Ahriman dead first turn? kind of hurts. Daemon princes dropping by the end of turn 2? Ditto.

Others, I'm not all that convinced. Warlocks, IG commanders, Tau Fireblades? Okay, yeah they die - but its 100 points killing something costing 30-40.

Its the same old problem as all snipers - sure, you get these cheap characters, but its not much more efficient in terms of points returned than just shooting regular stuff with regular stuff. With the added negative that its a bit fiddly (LOS blocking buff bots is easier than whole units) and certain armies don't care *that* much if their HQ options die.

Also Eliminators fill the heavy support slot, so if I load up on eliminators I'm in a bit of trouble if my opponent takes a list that depends on something else.

Sure Eliminators are going to be nasty agaisnt a Hero hammer list, but someone who decides to run an armor list whose HQs are little more then a tax they'll struggle.

Chaplains can't use their Litanies on a turn they Deep Strike and I'm not sure how you're going to drop in Centurions turn 2.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Chaplains can't use their Litanies on a turn they Deep Strike and I'm not sure how you're going to drop in Centurions turn 2.

he's talking about using raven Guard stuff in conjunction with Imperial fist stuff, so at this point he's worrying about umm.. if his opponent cheats?

You leave the Chaplain on the table and deep-strike the Centurions next to them. Jump Chaplains can cover a lot of ground, and can advance and still provide the buff.

The problem is, if you play them you have to listen to emo music and I just can't do it.

BrianDavion wrote:

Karol wrote:
Then why not just drop a bit unit of centurions turn 2, alongside a chaplain, get them buffed by bolter drill, buffed by the chaplain, buffed from the RG trait and the doctrine, and then just unload 15 hits on avarge in to any character 12" away from the centurions?

because that set up is ILLEGAL? Bolter Drill is an Imperial fists strat. it won't work with raven guard

I was talking about the bolter rule all marines have with their bolters, save for DW if they use their special ammo.

Tyel wrote:
I think its an odd trade off.

Certain armies hate snipers. A typical Chaos Soup where you are fluffing your invuls for example. Ahriman dead first turn? kind of hurts. Daemon princes dropping by the end of turn 2? Ditto.

Others, I'm not all that convinced. Warlocks, IG commanders, Tau Fireblades? Okay, yeah they die - but its 100 points killing something costing 30-40.

Its the same old problem as all snipers - sure, you get these cheap characters, but its not much more efficient in terms of points returned than just shooting regular stuff with regular stuff. With the added negative that its a bit fiddly (LOS blocking buff bots is easier than whole units) and certain armies don't care *that* much if their HQ options die.

Ok but in an already overpriced codex that 55 pt model has a clutch power to cast on your 200-300 blob of wraiths/guardians... or jinx/doom that key alpha target or whatever.
Unlike some factions eldar pay a premium for all units..(bar alitoic CHE) This is apparently due to the psychic (which is never guaranteed mind you) and historical Ynnari BS. Take that ability away T1/T2? The units are simply not efficient enough on their own.

Well then maybe GW wants everyone to play alaitoc in normal games, and the rest is for people that run narrative or open games??

A lot of factions that have copies of their units or gear in other factions, can say the same. Why does a SW repulsor cost the same as a IH one, for example?

Why is a space marine hammer on on hero 45pts, and for GK it is not? etc

Karol wrote:
Well then maybe GW wants everyone to play alaitoc in normal games, and the rest is for people that run narrative or open games??

A lot of factions that have copies of their units or gear in other factions, can say the same. Why does a SW repulsor cost the same as a IH one, for example?

Why is a space marine hammer on on hero 45pts, and for GK it is not? etc

for a start a space marine captain can use a jump pack to get a lot out of a thunderhammer, grey knights don't have that option. There's a reason you never hear about GK "smash captains"

Tyel wrote:
I think its an odd trade off.

Certain armies hate snipers. A typical Chaos Soup where you are fluffing your invuls for example. Ahriman dead first turn? kind of hurts. Daemon princes dropping by the end of turn 2? Ditto.

Others, I'm not all that convinced. Warlocks, IG commanders, Tau Fireblades? Okay, yeah they die - but its 100 points killing something costing 30-40.

Its the same old problem as all snipers - sure, you get these cheap characters, but its not much more efficient in terms of points returned than just shooting regular stuff with regular stuff. With the added negative that its a bit fiddly (LOS blocking buff bots is easier than whole units) and certain armies don't care *that* much if their HQ options die.

Warlock is 55 pts, Spiritseer is 65 pts, Warlock on bike is 67 pts, farseer is 110 pts. Everyone outside of transport is easy to kill for 1 max 2 squds of eliminators. CWE army cant work without the support, its not cheap or durable or killi enough.
Bulgrins are also not scary when they don`t have +1 save, orders are what make guard army so good.
You are not killing single model for 1-2 squads, you are literally crippling opponent army capabilities.
Eliminators should just go min 45 pts per model, so atleast the marine player to be forced to spend points for doing so much.
And if none take them good radiance, the game don`t need first turn deepstriking snipers that hit targets without LOS.

Karol wrote:
But isn't that a problem only for non marine players? non marine players already had their time this edition, when they armies were good. Maybe GW decided that it is time for marines to be good, and other armies to be bad. Maybe next edition the eldar and IG are going to be good again.

I hope that's a joke...


I think Marin sums up my thoughts on the matter. I also think that if you're eliminating a phase of the game that an opposing army excels at so quickly, you ruin the game and in turn the "fun" of a game. It's like bringing an almost all flyer army against a close combat army with no fly units to attack them. You get rid of the combat phase and in turn completely shut down someone's army.

I think Eliminators are the problem unit and RG enhances that.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:

Karol wrote:
But isn't that a problem only for non marine players? non marine players already had their time this edition, when they armies were good. Maybe GW decided that it is time for marines to be good, and other armies to be bad. Maybe next edition the eldar and IG are going to be good again.

I hope that's a joke...


I think Marin sums up my thoughts on the matter. I also think that if you're eliminating a phase of the game that an opposing army excels at so quickly, you ruin the game and in turn the "fun" of a game. It's like bringing an almost all flyer army against a close combat army with no fly units to attack them. You get rid of the combat phase and in turn completely shut down someone's army.

I think Eliminators are the problem unit and RG enhances that.

JuSt BuY tRaNspOrTs....

RG are also now the new AL zerker rush,an mechanic that was removed due to beeing unfun. But it's fine for new marines to do so. e.g: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/781863.page

Marin wrote:

Tyel wrote:
I think its an odd trade off.

Certain armies hate snipers. A typical Chaos Soup where you are fluffing your invuls for example. Ahriman dead first turn? kind of hurts. Daemon princes dropping by the end of turn 2? Ditto.

Others, I'm not all that convinced. Warlocks, IG commanders, Tau Fireblades? Okay, yeah they die - but its 100 points killing something costing 30-40.

Its the same old problem as all snipers - sure, you get these cheap characters, but its not much more efficient in terms of points returned than just shooting regular stuff with regular stuff. With the added negative that its a bit fiddly (LOS blocking buff bots is easier than whole units) and certain armies don't care *that* much if their HQ options die.

Warlock is 55 pts, Spiritseer is 65 pts, Warlock on bike is 67 pts, farseer is 110 pts. Everyone outside of transport is easy to kill for 1 max 2 squds of eliminators. CWE army cant work without the support, its not cheap or durable or killi enough.
Bulgrins are also not scary when they don`t have +1 save, orders are what make guard army so good.
You are not killing single model for 1-2 squads, you are literally crippling opponent army capabilities.
Eliminators should just go min 45 pts per model, so atleast the marine player to be forced to spend points for doing so much.
And if none take them good radiance, the game don`t need first turn deepstriking snipers that hit targets without LOS.

you could just put your commanders in a transport for the first round, and kill the eliminators. it's a 3 guy squad. a unit like dark reapers should be able to kill/neutralize it reasonably easy

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:

Karol wrote:
But isn't that a problem only for non marine players? non marine players already had their time this edition, when they armies were good. Maybe GW decided that it is time for marines to be good, and other armies to be bad. Maybe next edition the eldar and IG are going to be good again.

I hope that's a joke...


I think Marin sums up my thoughts on the matter. I also think that if you're eliminating a phase of the game that an opposing army excels at so quickly, you ruin the game and in turn the "fun" of a game. It's like bringing an almost all flyer army against a close combat army with no fly units to attack them. You get rid of the combat phase and in turn completely shut down someone's army.

I think Eliminators are the problem unit and RG enhances that.

JuSt BuY tRaNspOrTs....

RG are also now the new AL zerker rush,an mechanic that was removed due to beeing unfun. But it's fine for new marines to do so. e.g: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/781863.page

I actually did face a similar problem as in the post you linked although not to the same degree as it was a fluffy game. Is something like that worth reporting to GW?

 Tyranid Horde wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:

Karol wrote:
But isn't that a problem only for non marine players? non marine players already had their time this edition, when they armies were good. Maybe GW decided that it is time for marines to be good, and other armies to be bad. Maybe next edition the eldar and IG are going to be good again.

I hope that's a joke...


I think Marin sums up my thoughts on the matter. I also think that if you're eliminating a phase of the game that an opposing army excels at so quickly, you ruin the game and in turn the "fun" of a game. It's like bringing an almost all flyer army against a close combat army with no fly units to attack them. You get rid of the combat phase and in turn completely shut down someone's army.

I think Eliminators are the problem unit and RG enhances that.

JuSt BuY tRaNspOrTs....

RG are also now the new AL zerker rush,an mechanic that was removed due to beeing unfun. But it's fine for new marines to do so. e.g: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/781863.page

I actually did face a similar problem as in the post you linked although not to the same degree as it was a fluffy game. Is something like that worth reporting to GW?

considering not even GSC the Ambush faction can do something similar, and the rest of the fellow ambushers (e.g. AL and consorts) got nerfed (why don't you see any zerkers no more ?) because it was deemed unfun?
No, it's working as intended. It's the sales hook for RG.





There are factions out there, that CAN'T allow to not buff for one turn.
It's bad design period, to be even able to use out of LOS sniping.

BrianDavion wrote:

Marin wrote:

Tyel wrote:
I think its an odd trade off.

Certain armies hate snipers. A typical Chaos Soup where you are fluffing your invuls for example. Ahriman dead first turn? kind of hurts. Daemon princes dropping by the end of turn 2? Ditto.

Others, I'm not all that convinced. Warlocks, IG commanders, Tau Fireblades? Okay, yeah they die - but its 100 points killing something costing 30-40.

Its the same old problem as all snipers - sure, you get these cheap characters, but its not much more efficient in terms of points returned than just shooting regular stuff with regular stuff. With the added negative that its a bit fiddly (LOS blocking buff bots is easier than whole units) and certain armies don't care *that* much if their HQ options die.

Warlock is 55 pts, Spiritseer is 65 pts, Warlock on bike is 67 pts, farseer is 110 pts. Everyone outside of transport is easy to kill for 1 max 2 squds of eliminators. CWE army cant work without the support, its not cheap or durable or killi enough.
Bulgrins are also not scary when they don`t have +1 save, orders are what make guard army so good.
You are not killing single model for 1-2 squads, you are literally crippling opponent army capabilities.
Eliminators should just go min 45 pts per model, so atleast the marine player to be forced to spend points for doing so much.
And if none take them good radiance, the game don`t need first turn deepstriking snipers that hit targets without LOS.

you could just put your commanders in a transport for the first round, and kill the eliminators. it's a 3 guy squad. a unit like dark reapers should be able to kill/neutralize it reasonably easy

Do you know how Eldar play? Sure you can hide them turn one but psykers can't spend time in transports not buffing and most Eldar players (myself included) take skyrunners so transports are a moot point.

Dark Reapers don't ignore LOS, only the Exarch with a Tempest Launcher does which gets 6-7 shots from 2D6. You can't kill them easily.

Not Online!!! wrote:
RG are also now the new AL zerker rush,an mechanic that was removed due to beeing unfun. But it's fine for new marines to do so. e.g: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/781863.page

OP said his opponent moved into his DZ before T1 which is impossible. It's also important to notice the difference between Infiltrators and Khorne Berzerkers, a single blob of 20 Berzerkers can put out 80 chain axe attacks and 40 chainsword attacks before you get to strike and another 40 chainaxe attacks and 40 chainsword attacks after everyone has fought, all three rounds of fighting done with +1 to wound for 1 CP with the VotLW Stratagem. You can still Warptime AL or Red Corsairs Zerkers for a 19+2d6 or 10+4d6 charge turn 1 respectively.

Grammarly thinks I'm being negative, Raven Guard are amazing and I love unicorns.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:

Karol wrote:
But isn't that a problem only for non marine players? non marine players already had their time this edition, when they armies were good. Maybe GW decided that it is time for marines to be good, and other armies to be bad. Maybe next edition the eldar and IG are going to be good again.

I hope that's a joke...


I think Marin sums up my thoughts on the matter. I also think that if you're eliminating a phase of the game that an opposing army excels at so quickly, you ruin the game and in turn the "fun" of a game. It's like bringing an almost all flyer army against a close combat army with no fly units to attack them. You get rid of the combat phase and in turn completely shut down someone's army.

I think Eliminators are the problem unit and RG enhances that.

No, I don't do jokes. When marines were bad, eldar players told everyone that their armies aren't that good, that stuff is balanced, that they aren't winning 100% events, and outside of tournaments no one is going to face the top eldar stuff, as all eldar players focus on swooping hawk use outside of events. There was also a lot of learn to play stuff, play the scenario not the opposing army being thrown around.

Now I understand that maybe eldar players aren't used to being bad or having it tough to win. I had this problem too when after being in the youngling bracket I had to move to the under 16 years old one, and suddenly got manhandled every match. But maybe GW decided that it is marine time to be good, just like before they decided that castellans should be awesome, and before that Inari etc

Also fun seems to be either a subjective or very own point of view thing. I haven't seen all players worry about the fact, how unfun it is for other players to play against their armies. In fact most seemed to have been very happy that their armies work very nice, and that they can play more then a single build most of 8th ed.

Maybe eldar players just have to wait. in a few months or next edition, eldar could be good too. And if not I doubt w40k is going to stop at 9th ed.

I alrgely disagree with Karol, and think the idea that "ohh eldar had a period of being strong, so if they suck now, good!" that kinda dditude is complete poison no matter who does it. that said if eldar are so dependant on their characters the army just doesn't work without them, that's the element of bad design, not marines having snipers.
that said I dooo kinda wonder if Karol has a point, did some players get so used to Marines being easy targets that they got complacent?

I don't think an army should be bad, because it was good. I just feel suprised that people think that some armies should never be bad or always be good. I mean from what I understand about people telling me of w40k history, there was a time, when necrons were good, when tau were extremly bad etc.

I can't get my head around the fact, that somehow eldar players are suprised that GW may have made choices, which end with their army being bad this time.

I don't know how long they will be bad, if they are really bad. I mean for all we know after SoB the next codex could be eldar or dark eldar, and put everything marine to shame.

When 8th started people thought that marines with gulliman are the most broken thing ever. And then Inari happened.

Karol wrote:
I don't think an army should be bad, because it was good. I just feel suprised that people think that some armies should never be bad or always be good. I mean from what I understand about people telling me of w40k history, there was a time, when necrons were good, when tau were extremly bad etc.

I can't get my head around the fact, that somehow eldar players are suprised that GW may have made choices, which end with their army being bad this time.

I don't know how long they will be bad, if they are really bad. I mean for all we know after SoB the next codex could be eldar or dark eldar, and put everything marine to shame.

When 8th started people thought that marines with gulliman are the most broken thing ever. And then Inari happened.

Part of your problem seems to be that you're treating all Eldar players or all SM players (or any group of players) as one unified group. They're not. What you're actually seeing with the behaviour you describe is people wanting to protect their own army or downplay the power of it (possibly because they don't want to admit their success in the game isn't entirely down to their amazing tactical skills). Plenty of Eldar players would freely admit they were broken at different times in 40k's life, just like many SM players admit the current Codex is/was broken in some ways.

Good game design would see all armies roughly equal with no clear best and worst armies. Wanting some armies to be bad because they used to be good 5+ years ago, and vice versa, is a terrible attitude to have towards the game.

BrianDavion wrote:
I alrgely disagree with Karol, and think the idea that "ohh eldar had a period of being strong, so if they suck now, good!" that kinda dditude is complete poison no matter who does it. that said if eldar are so dependant on their characters the army just doesn't work without them, that's the element of bad design, not marines having snipers.
that said I dooo kinda wonder if Karol has a point, did some players get so used to Marines being easy targets that they got complacent?

It's not just that Marines have snipers though, it's the fact they can bend bullets and hit things out of LOS, which doesn't just affect Eldar, it affects any army that have auras, orders or psychic powers, the latter of those is determined by RnG in the first place and now that you can't hide them adds an extra degree of difficulty which many armies don't experience due to not having/caring about psychic powers. Psychic focused armies have always relied on their characters to support their army, that isn't bad design.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I alrgely disagree with Karol, and think the idea that "ohh eldar had a period of being strong, so if they suck now, good!" that kinda dditude is complete poison no matter who does it. that said if eldar are so dependant on their characters the army just doesn't work without them, that's the element of bad design, not marines having snipers.
that said I dooo kinda wonder if Karol has a point, did some players get so used to Marines being easy targets that they got complacent?

It's not just that Marines have snipers though, it's the fact they can bend bullets and hit things out of LOS, which doesn't just affect Eldar, it affects any army that have auras, orders or psychic powers, the latter of those is determined by RnG in the first place and now that you can't hide them adds an extra degree of difficulty which many armies don't experience due to not having/caring about psychic powers. Psychic focused armies have always relied on their characters to support their army, that isn't bad design.

yeah, the second GW came up with snipers that ignore line of sight i had a feeling we were going in deep gak. Its just poor game design, it removes any counter play and completely neuters some strategies.

Certain armies hate snipers. A typical Chaos Soup where you are fluffing your invuls for example. Ahriman dead first turn? kind of hurts. Daemon princes dropping by the end of turn 2? Ditto.

First turn kill of Ahriman?
I guess not. The devastor doctrine will be on and then in round two the tactical doctrine,
which you need for the special rule (surgical strike) of RG.

 vict0988 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
RG are also now the new AL zerker rush,an mechanic that was removed due to beeing unfun. But it's fine for new marines to do so. e.g: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/781863.page

OP said his opponent moved into his DZ before T1 which is impossible. It's also important to notice the difference between Infiltrators and Khorne Berzerkers, a single blob of 20 Berzerkers can put out 80 chain axe attacks and 40 chainsword attacks before you get to strike and another 40 chainaxe attacks and 40 chainsword attacks after everyone has fought, all three rounds of fighting done with +1 to wound for 1 CP with the VotLW Stratagem. You can still Warptime AL or Red Corsairs Zerkers for a 19+2d6 or 10+4d6 charge turn 1 respectively.

Grammarly thinks I'm being negative, Raven Guard are amazing and I love unicorns.

Two points though, that is one squad, Not an army and secondly, requires more ressources points wise.

Additionally, the main issue is not that it isn't any more possible for AL but the fact that the reason for the removal a 50% chance of going off, was due to beeing deemed unfun to play against.

Playing both Ravenguard and Eldar I can look at this from both sides. Turn 1, you are unlikely to kill a character if you don't have LOS to it. The round is only 1 damage and does not get through invulns. Focus down a warlock? Sure, with 2 wounds, that will work but it's not guaranteed for others. Let's look at the math of 3 eliminator sqds shooting at a farseer.
9 shots hitting basically on 2s, wounding on 3s, and a 4+ invuln is 2.5 wounds. That kills a Warlock but not a farseer or spiritseer, and does not kill a warlock on a bike. That's the max number of Eliminators btw. Granted, as a ravenguard player I may also be taking a Phobos Captain with Korvidari bolts and +1 damage warlord trait. Yes, if you fail that save...you are dead.

Obviously Turn 2 it gets worse for the Ravenguard opponent when he goes into tactical and starts getting bonuses to wound (and hunting characters actively with blackout and ex tenebris).

So, Eldar response? Right off the back, 3 Night Spinners in a Spearhead with custom trait that ignores cover and probably the Salmander trait. Those eliminators will melt in one turn. Keep your characters in trasnports until Turn 2 if there is enough of a threat to eliminate them, at least until you can even the playing field. Tempest launcher will also d some nasty work for you.

There are solutions, and the solutions are extremely useful vs other opponents too.

Slipspace 781731 10612927 wrote:

Part of your problem seems to be that you're treating all Eldar players or all SM players (or any group of players) as one unified group. They're not. What you're actually seeing with the behaviour you describe is people wanting to protect their own army or downplay the power of it (possibly because they don't want to admit their success in the game isn't entirely down to their amazing tactical skills). Plenty of Eldar players would freely admit they were broken at different times in 40k's life, just like many SM players admit the current Codex is/was broken in some ways.

Good game design would see all armies roughly equal with no clear best and worst armies. Wanting some armies to be bad because they used to be good 5+ years ago, and vice versa, is a terrible attitude to have towards the game.

Why should I or anyone else care about protecting other people army? I don't see people dieing or writing letters to GW about armies they don't play being bad. Also there is something like probability. If one army was good for a few months or a year, over 30+ years of w40k. the chance of it being good again is much lower, then an army being good every edition. Why should a marine player, remember I don't play marines, care that right now eldar feel bad for eldar players. And this is true for both people that played only this edition, and those that played over multiple ones. It sounds kind of a disingenuous, when eldar players, start to claim that balanced should be a thing and armies should be on equal footing, the very moment their army starts to bottom out to the majority of armies being played. I haven't seen any huge eldar player movments to make marines great, when Inari or flyer lists were rolling over them. Why should eldar players expect that suddenly everyone is going to go, yes let us defend the fun of eldar players, they are so unused to having a weaker or even bad army.

BrianDavion wrote:

Marin wrote:

Tyel wrote:
I think its an odd trade off.

Certain armies hate snipers. A typical Chaos Soup where you are fluffing your invuls for example. Ahriman dead first turn? kind of hurts. Daemon princes dropping by the end of turn 2? Ditto.

Others, I'm not all that convinced. Warlocks, IG commanders, Tau Fireblades? Okay, yeah they die - but its 100 points killing something costing 30-40.

Its the same old problem as all snipers - sure, you get these cheap characters, but its not much more efficient in terms of points returned than just shooting regular stuff with regular stuff. With the added negative that its a bit fiddly (LOS blocking buff bots is easier than whole units) and certain armies don't care *that* much if their HQ options die.

Warlock is 55 pts, Spiritseer is 65 pts, Warlock on bike is 67 pts, farseer is 110 pts. Everyone outside of transport is easy to kill for 1 max 2 squds of eliminators. CWE army cant work without the support, its not cheap or durable or killi enough.
Bulgrins are also not scary when they don`t have +1 save, orders are what make guard army so good.
You are not killing single model for 1-2 squads, you are literally crippling opponent army capabilities.
Eliminators should just go min 45 pts per model, so atleast the marine player to be forced to spend points for doing so much.
And if none take them good radiance, the game don`t need first turn deepstriking snipers that hit targets without LOS.

you could just put your commanders in a transport for the first round, and kill the eliminators. it's a 3 guy squad. a unit like dark reapers should be able to kill/neutralize it reasonably easy

You can`t hide bikers in transports and still having 1-2 turns to win the game is to limiting and to punishing for every army.
This ability is no way worth 24 pts per model. People will adjust what they can to play against it, but currently SM players are not investing anything for that unit.
If CA adjust other armies unit prices maybe it will not be such problem, but currently it`s a problem.

No, I don't do jokes. When marines were bad, eldar players told everyone that their armies aren't that good, that stuff is balanced, that they aren't winning 100% events, and outside of tournaments no one is going to face the top eldar stuff, as all eldar players focus on swooping hawk use outside of events. There was also a lot of learn to play stuff, play the scenario not the opposing army being thrown around.

Now I understand that maybe eldar players aren't used to being bad or having it tough to win. I had this problem too when after being in the youngling bracket I had to move to the under 16 years old one, and suddenly got manhandled every match. But maybe GW decided that it is marine time to be good, just like before they decided that castellans should be awesome, and before that Inari etc

Also fun seems to be either a subjective or very own point of view thing. I haven't seen all players worry about the fact, how unfun it is for other players to play against their armies. In fact most seemed to have been very happy that their armies work very nice, and that they can play more then a single build most of 8th ed.

Maybe eldar players just have to wait. in a few months or next edition, eldar could be good too. And if not I doubt w40k is going to stop at 9th ed.

New SM WR is higher than Castellan and Ynnari. Ynnari even in their peak were never more than 5% of the super big tournaments like LVO.
I know players who complain about aeldar with 0 games played vs that faction, so i believe in the numbers and numbers shows that CWE is pretty balanced top army.
For instance in the last 6 mounts:
TS vs CWE 61.63‬ WR
Tyranid vs CWE 56.03‬ WR
Space Wolves vs CWE 44% WR

And that is including the OP fly spam list, so strong but hardly dominating with total of 52.13% WR.

CWE codex was released October 2017 in April FAQ 2018 dark reapers, spiritseer, warlock and warlock conclave received point increases.
That is before half of the codexes to be released, so i expect the some treatment for the SM.
Even GW are starting to treat SM releases as mistake, the nerfs are coming and you can be sure of that.