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Not Online!!! wrote: And how would you nerf them /buff them and not make them too similar which would ultimately defeat the whole purpose of traits?
I care a lot less about them being distinct than I do about them being balanced with each other. Though all the suggestions I made were distinct.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/30 15:31:30
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
bullyboy wrote: I did the math for you guys. 9 eliminators does not kill a warlock on jetbike Turn 1. Therfore you have 1 turn to utilize Reapers and Nightspinners to take out the snipers. The sky is not falling.
I think you have to do the math again. With Sergent they kill warlock on bike without any problems.
3x Spinners kills max 3 eliminators per turn(because -1 to hit cover) and that is with the most anti marine combo expert crafters+ masterful shoots.
Masterful shoots remove bonus to save and not the -1 to hit. Without this it`s even worst 1-2 models, with autarch you can get a 1 extra model.
I watched games where for 1 turn 9 eliminators killed Shadowseer, for 2 turn 2 units killed Calgar.
I lost Farseer from 1 unit for 1 turn, because i failed 2 saves and with the rerolls and mortal wounds its almost impossible for this guys to miss something.
This damage should never coast 72 pts.
Because dice can always happen, and its much harder to get average 4++ than to hit on 2 and reroll 1.
If you start putting more LOS shooting or other treats, now they have Impulsion who can safely hide SMBS units.
OK, 3 units of Eliminators (216pts) shooting at a warlock jetseer guided by their sgt. Only 6 shots (sgt can't shoot), hit on 2's, wound on 2s, save on 4+ is still only 2.08 wounds on average. A warlock jetseer has 3 wounds. so again, my maths is fine, you are over reacting.
I told you your math is wrong.
9 shoots(using the sergeant to shoot) 7.5 hits with BS2, wound on 3 reroll 1 to wound, 5.833 wounds, damage 2.917 and that is without someone giving them reroll on hit or just having salamander successor trait.
So you're conveniently putting a Lt close by all 3 units for reroll wounds of 1? So 300pts barely killed (still less than 3 wounds) a 67pt warlock....good job!!! Lol.
You can kill single unit for 1-2 turns and get alot of value. If i can remove the captain for 1-2 turns, do you think i`ll not be happy to spend 300 pts doing that ?
Units that are not suicide to do that and have to be removed or do even more damage ?
You are so over reacting, it's not even funny. If you need to protect your characters, invest in weapons to kill Eliminators. It's kinda how this game works, you know?
Marin wrote: You can kill single unit for 1-2 turns and get alot of value. If i can remove the captain for 1-2 turns, do you think i`ll not be happy to spend 300 pts doing that ?
Units that are not suicide to do that and have to be removed or do even more damage ?
You are so over reacting, it's not even funny. If you need to protect your characters, invest in weapons to kill Eliminators. It's kinda how this game works, you know?
But it's totally unreasonable for a marine player that invested 300 points in snipers and an Lt to almost reliably kill one of the weakest characters in the game, resilience wise. Just like 2 quadlas predators shouldn't be able to reliably kill one trukk. /s
Is there anything keeping you from taking more than one Warlock so that you don't autolose as soon as one dies other than not wanting to sacrifice points on redundancy in other matchups?
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Is there anything keeping you from taking more than one Warlock so that you don't autolose as soon as one dies other than not wanting to sacrifice points on redundancy in other matchups?
You could take another warlock with the same power as redundancy but then if one doesn't die you have wasted 55-67 points on a model that has a 9" mini-smite.
For those saying "300pts to kill a 67pt character wah", the army functions on psychic buffs to help the overall army. If that is removed in a turn of shooting in the early game it's a massive swing on top of the RnG of the Psychic phase anyway. Mathhammer is great but when something is able to cripple an army so easily that's poor game design.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/10/30 15:58:47
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Is there anything keeping you from taking more than one Warlock so that you don't autolose as soon as one dies other than not wanting to sacrifice points on redundancy in other matchups?
You could take another warlock with the same power as redundancy but then if one doesn't die you have wasted 55-67 points on a model that has a 9" mini-smite.
For those saying "300pts to kill a 67pt character wah", the army functions on psychic buffs to help the overall army. If that is removed in a turn of shooting in the early game it's a massive swing on top of the RnG of the Psychic phase anyway. Mathhammer is great but when something is able to cripple an army so easily that's poor game design.
Noone is arguing that it isn't, but the issue isnt Eliminators. It's the Eldar design. Because Vindicare will feth them up even more,so do other snipers. Snipers feth up characters, that's their role. If they're not allowed to kill something THAT weak in one turn, they won't be able to do anything worthwhile. If you invest that many points in a role, it has to be able to fulfill that role.
To be fair in the end. Casting protect and quicken on a unit 10 inches from my psyker and I can't deny cause your warlock is 25"s from ym psyker it is broken too. So I really don't mind it having a counter of some kind.
You guys aren't even mentioning the most busted combo of putting an ancient banner with your eliminators and sniping characters in your opponents turn . I did this once in a friendly game a dude almost rage quit...Decided to sit them down for a bit. The last thing I expected was for eliminators was to get buffed...twice!
Also no one is mentioning the most obvious thing...Put your psyker in a serpent - jump out - kill all eliminators. It is true that the RG super doctrine makes them pretty unfair.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/30 16:15:21
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Is there anything keeping you from taking more than one Warlock so that you don't autolose as soon as one dies other than not wanting to sacrifice points on redundancy in other matchups?
You could take another warlock with the same power as redundancy but then if one doesn't die you have wasted 55-67 points on a model that has a 9" mini-smite.
For those saying "300pts to kill a 67pt character wah", the army functions on psychic buffs to help the overall army. If that is removed in a turn of shooting in the early game it's a massive swing on top of the RnG of the Psychic phase anyway. Mathhammer is great but when something is able to cripple an army so easily that's poor game design.
Noone is arguing that it isn't, but the issue isnt Eliminators. It's the Eldar design. Because Vindicare will feth them up even more,so do other snipers. Snipers feth up characters, that's their role. If they're not allowed to kill something THAT weak in one turn, they won't be able to do anything worthwhile. If you invest that many points in a role, it has to be able to fulfill that role.
No it's still Eliminators, snipers should never be able to target things out of LOS. You can play around a vindicare should anyone actually run them.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Is there anything keeping you from taking more than one Warlock so that you don't autolose as soon as one dies other than not wanting to sacrifice points on redundancy in other matchups?
You could take another warlock with the same power as redundancy but then if one doesn't die you have wasted 55-67 points on a model that has a 9" mini-smite.
For those saying "300pts to kill a 67pt character wah", the army functions on psychic buffs to help the overall army. If that is removed in a turn of shooting in the early game it's a massive swing on top of the RnG of the Psychic phase anyway. Mathhammer is great but when something is able to cripple an army so easily that's poor game design.
Noone is arguing that it isn't, but the issue isnt Eliminators. It's the Eldar design. Because Vindicare will feth them up even more,so do other snipers. Snipers feth up characters, that's their role. If they're not allowed to kill something THAT weak in one turn, they won't be able to do anything worthwhile. If you invest that many points in a role, it has to be able to fulfill that role.
No it's still Eliminators, snipers should never be able to target things out of LOS. You can play around a vindicare should anyone actually run them.
You can - bring more than one.
9 Eliminators with a Lt are barely able to kill one. So you bring two. That's still HALF of what the marine paid.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Is there anything keeping you from taking more than one Warlock so that you don't autolose as soon as one dies other than not wanting to sacrifice points on redundancy in other matchups?
You could take another warlock with the same power as redundancy but then if one doesn't die you have wasted 55-67 points on a model that has a 9" mini-smite.
For those saying "300pts to kill a 67pt character wah", the army functions on psychic buffs to help the overall army. If that is removed in a turn of shooting in the early game it's a massive swing on top of the RnG of the Psychic phase anyway. Mathhammer is great but when something is able to cripple an army so easily that's poor game design.
Noone is arguing that it isn't, but the issue isnt Eliminators. It's the Eldar design. Because Vindicare will feth them up even more,so do other snipers. Snipers feth up characters, that's their role. If they're not allowed to kill something THAT weak in one turn, they won't be able to do anything worthwhile. If you invest that many points in a role, it has to be able to fulfill that role.
No it's still Eliminators, snipers should never be able to target things out of LOS. You can play around a vindicare should anyone actually run them.
To be fair - you will have trouble hiding from eliminators anyways because they infiltrate.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Eliminators really just need to lose the bonus to hit and wound so we can take them as larger groups. Them and Suppressors are opening a door to max unit size in a box for three models and we should be fighting that.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Xenomancers wrote: To be fair in the end. Casting protect and quicken on a unit 10 inches from my psyker and I can't deny cause your warlock is 25"s from ym psyker it is broken too. So I really don't mind it having a counter of some kind.
You guys aren't even mentioning the most busted combo of putting an ancient banner with your eliminators and sniping characters in your opponents turn . I did this once in a friendly game a dude almost rage quit...Decided to sit them down for a bit. The last thing I expected was for eliminators was to get buffed...twice!
Also no one is mentioning the most obvious thing...Put your psyker in a serpent - jump out - kill all eliminators. It is true that the RG super doctrine makes them pretty unfair.
Didn't you know that there's only a handful of transports worth taking?
"I don't want a solution I want to be mad" - Dakkdakka
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Eliminators really just need to lose the bonus to hit and wound so we can take them as larger groups. Them and Suppressors are opening a door to max unit size in a box for three models and we should be fighting that.
I'm not so certain. Some specialized units really deserve to be limited since force multipliers only get better when you open it up.
Xenomancers wrote: To be fair in the end. Casting protect and quicken on a unit 10 inches from my psyker and I can't deny cause your warlock is 25"s from ym psyker it is broken too. So I really don't mind it having a counter of some kind.
You guys aren't even mentioning the most busted combo of putting an ancient banner with your eliminators and sniping characters in your opponents turn . I did this once in a friendly game a dude almost rage quit...Decided to sit them down for a bit. The last thing I expected was for eliminators was to get buffed...twice!
Also no one is mentioning the most obvious thing...Put your psyker in a serpent - jump out - kill all eliminators. It is true that the RG super doctrine makes them pretty unfair.
Didn't you know that there's only a handful of transports worth taking?
"I don't want a solution I want to be mad" - Dakkdakka
I think hes got a real grievance - losing your characters can lose you the game easily and not all armies have good snipers. So that is not super fair. Each army needs to have strength and weakness though. It's shocking to see marines have any kind of strength and all the sudden they are the best at everything. (My intercessors are out assaulting harlequins for crying out loud). It really is simple though. Just include a transport in your list and bring the right tools for killing snipers. It's not like a wave serpent is easy to kill ether.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
"just bring an handicap pts wise and you are fine"
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Eliminators really just need to lose the bonus to hit and wound so we can take them as larger groups. Them and Suppressors are opening a door to max unit size in a box for three models and we should be fighting that.
I'm not so certain. Some specialized units really deserve to be limited since force multipliers only get better when you open it up.
The squad size limitation is unreasonable for eliminators though being phobos...they have spells in phobos tree that would be good if you could use them on anything but 3 man squads.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Is there anything keeping you from taking more than one Warlock so that you don't autolose as soon as one dies other than not wanting to sacrifice points on redundancy in other matchups?
Yea, it`s called points, since you need something to actually use that buff and aeldar units are not cheap or good without the support.
And since Eliminators are things i`ll probably not run any warlocks since they are death in the moment they show on the map.
Can`t over invest in things just to get rid of 72 pts unit, there alot of hard hitting SM units that will just rip you apart.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Is there anything keeping you from taking more than one Warlock so that you don't autolose as soon as one dies other than not wanting to sacrifice points on redundancy in other matchups?
You could take another warlock with the same power as redundancy but then if one doesn't die you have wasted 55-67 points on a model that has a 9" mini-smite.
For those saying "300pts to kill a 67pt character wah", the army functions on psychic buffs to help the overall army. If that is removed in a turn of shooting in the early game it's a massive swing on top of the RnG of the Psychic phase anyway. Mathhammer is great but when something is able to cripple an army so easily that's poor game design.
Noone is arguing that it isn't, but the issue isnt Eliminators. It's the Eldar design. Because Vindicare will feth them up even more,so do other snipers. Snipers feth up characters, that's their role. If they're not allowed to kill something THAT weak in one turn, they won't be able to do anything worthwhile. If you invest that many points in a role, it has to be able to fulfill that role.
No it's still Eliminators, snipers should never be able to target things out of LOS. You can play around a vindicare should anyone actually run them.
You can - bring more than one.
9 Eliminators with a Lt are barely able to kill one. So you bring two. That's still HALF of what the marine paid.
I`ll gladly pay 3x points to remove that captain with the rerolls, doing it from save distance without counter play. Since that units will continio to shoot, do damage, take points they are not becoming useless when you kill 2-3 characters.
You ask for me to play premium to probably cast, 1-2 spells that are require just to play the game.
Xenomancers wrote: To be fair in the end. Casting protect and quicken on a unit 10 inches from my psyker and I can't deny cause your warlock is 25"s from ym psyker it is broken too. So I really don't mind it having a counter of some kind.
You guys aren't even mentioning the most busted combo of putting an ancient banner with your eliminators and sniping characters in your opponents turn . I did this once in a friendly game a dude almost rage quit...Decided to sit them down for a bit. The last thing I expected was for eliminators was to get buffed...twice!
Also no one is mentioning the most obvious thing...Put your psyker in a serpent - jump out - kill all eliminators. It is true that the RG super doctrine makes them pretty unfair.
Didn't you know that there's only a handful of transports worth taking?
"I don't want a solution I want to be mad" - Dakkdakka
I think hes got a real grievance - losing your characters can lose you the game easily and not all armies have good snipers. So that is not super fair. Each army needs to have strength and weakness though. It's shocking to see marines have any kind of strength and all the sudden they are the best at everything. (My intercessors are out assaulting harlequins for crying out loud). It really is simple though. Just include a transport in your list and bring the right tools for killing snipers. It's not like a wave serpent is easy to kill ether.
Yeah it's true it is an actual grievance about Eldar needing plenty of support but the ways to keep them alive exist. To top it off I'd call this a local meta problem as opposed to a global meta problem. Like people have said eliminators have been in the game for a bit and going to S5 didn't matter against T3 targets
Yeah intercessors are really good. It feels like they can generally commit to to most of the fight. Melee is huge now (thank god), the +1A on the charge is something I believe everyone should have though. Let marines keep their +1A on heroic intervention and when charged. But give everyone +1A on the charge again like before
Xenomancers wrote: To be fair in the end. Casting protect and quicken on a unit 10 inches from my psyker and I can't deny cause your warlock is 25"s from ym psyker it is broken too. So I really don't mind it having a counter of some kind.
You guys aren't even mentioning the most busted combo of putting an ancient banner with your eliminators and sniping characters in your opponents turn . I did this once in a friendly game a dude almost rage quit...Decided to sit them down for a bit. The last thing I expected was for eliminators was to get buffed...twice!
Also no one is mentioning the most obvious thing...Put your psyker in a serpent - jump out - kill all eliminators. It is true that the RG super doctrine makes them pretty unfair.
Didn't you know that there's only a handful of transports worth taking?
"I don't want a solution I want to be mad" - Dakkdakka
I think hes got a real grievance - losing your characters can lose you the game easily and not all armies have good snipers. So that is not super fair. Each army needs to have strength and weakness though. It's shocking to see marines have any kind of strength and all the sudden they are the best at everything. (My intercessors are out assaulting harlequins for crying out loud). It really is simple though. Just include a transport in your list and bring the right tools for killing snipers. It's not like a wave serpent is easy to kill ether.
Yeah it's true it is an actual grievance about Eldar needing plenty of support but the ways to keep them alive exist. To top it off I'd call this a local meta problem as opposed to a global meta problem. Like people have said eliminators have been in the game for a bit and going to S5 didn't matter against T3 targets
Yeah intercessors are really good. It feels like they can generally commit to to most of the fight. Melee is huge now (thank god), the +1A on the charge is something I believe everyone should have though. Let marines keep their +1A on heroic intervention and when charged. But give everyone +1A on the charge again like before
Yes, +1 Attack on the charge should be an universal rule to incentivate taking risks for taking charges
Xenomancers wrote: To be fair in the end. Casting protect and quicken on a unit 10 inches from my psyker and I can't deny cause your warlock is 25"s from ym psyker it is broken too. So I really don't mind it having a counter of some kind.
You guys aren't even mentioning the most busted combo of putting an ancient banner with your eliminators and sniping characters in your opponents turn . I did this once in a friendly game a dude almost rage quit...Decided to sit them down for a bit. The last thing I expected was for eliminators was to get buffed...twice!
Also no one is mentioning the most obvious thing...Put your psyker in a serpent - jump out - kill all eliminators. It is true that the RG super doctrine makes them pretty unfair.
Didn't you know that there's only a handful of transports worth taking?
"I don't want a solution I want to be mad" - Dakkdakka
I think hes got a real grievance - losing your characters can lose you the game easily and not all armies have good snipers. So that is not super fair. Each army needs to have strength and weakness though. It's shocking to see marines have any kind of strength and all the sudden they are the best at everything. (My intercessors are out assaulting harlequins for crying out loud). It really is simple though. Just include a transport in your list and bring the right tools for killing snipers. It's not like a wave serpent is easy to kill ether.
Yeah it's true it is an actual grievance about Eldar needing plenty of support but the ways to keep them alive exist. To top it off I'd call this a local meta problem as opposed to a global meta problem. Like people have said eliminators have been in the game for a bit and going to S5 didn't matter against T3 targets
Yeah intercessors are really good. It feels like they can generally commit to to most of the fight. Melee is huge now (thank god), the +1A on the charge is something I believe everyone should have though. Let marines keep their +1A on heroic intervention and when charged. But give everyone +1A on the charge again like before
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Is there anything keeping you from taking more than one Warlock so that you don't autolose as soon as one dies other than not wanting to sacrifice points on redundancy in other matchups?
You could take another warlock with the same power as redundancy but then if one doesn't die you have wasted 55-67 points on a model that has a 9" mini-smite.
For those saying "300pts to kill a 67pt character wah", the army functions on psychic buffs to help the overall army. If that is removed in a turn of shooting in the early game it's a massive swing on top of the RnG of the Psychic phase anyway. Mathhammer is great but when something is able to cripple an army so easily that's poor game design.
Noone is arguing that it isn't, but the issue isnt Eliminators. It's the Eldar design. Because Vindicare will feth them up even more,so do other snipers. Snipers feth up characters, that's their role. If they're not allowed to kill something THAT weak in one turn, they won't be able to do anything worthwhile. If you invest that many points in a role, it has to be able to fulfill that role.
No it's still Eliminators, snipers should never be able to target things out of LOS. You can play around a vindicare should anyone actually run them.
You can - bring more than one.
9 Eliminators with a Lt are barely able to kill one. So you bring two. That's still HALF of what the marine paid.
I`ll gladly pay 3x points to remove that captain with the rerolls, doing it from save distance without counter play. Since that units will continio to shoot, do damage, take points they are not becoming useless when you kill 2-3 characters.
You ask for me to play premium to probably cast, 1-2 spells that are require just to play the game.
I'm sorry but if your army needs 1-2 spells cast each turn to not suck, then the problem is not "OMG! OP Space Marines" your problem is YOUR ARMY IS POORLY DESIGNED.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
BrianDavion wrote: I'm sorry but if your army needs 1-2 spells cast each turn to not suck, then the problem is not "OMG! OP Space Marines" your problem is YOUR ARMY IS POORLY DESIGNED.
Just in case you play Daemons, CSM, TS, DG, Asuryani, Ynnari, Harlequin, Orks, GSC, Tyranids, or GK, you should all know, your armies are horribly designed and you should feel bad for making such a poor choice.
BD has a solution though, git gud, stop playing bad armies nubs.
Thanks BD, that's some insightful commentary there.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/30 20:20:35
"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."
Xenomancers wrote: To be fair in the end. Casting protect and quicken on a unit 10 inches from my psyker and I can't deny cause your warlock is 25"s from ym psyker it is broken too. So I really don't mind it having a counter of some kind.
You guys aren't even mentioning the most busted combo of putting an ancient banner with your eliminators and sniping characters in your opponents turn . I did this once in a friendly game a dude almost rage quit...Decided to sit them down for a bit. The last thing I expected was for eliminators was to get buffed...twice!
Also no one is mentioning the most obvious thing...Put your psyker in a serpent - jump out - kill all eliminators. It is true that the RG super doctrine makes them pretty unfair.
Didn't you know that there's only a handful of transports worth taking?
"I don't want a solution I want to be mad" - Dakkdakka
I think hes got a real grievance - losing your characters can lose you the game easily and not all armies have good snipers. So that is not super fair. Each army needs to have strength and weakness though. It's shocking to see marines have any kind of strength and all the sudden they are the best at everything. (My intercessors are out assaulting harlequins for crying out loud). It really is simple though. Just include a transport in your list and bring the right tools for killing snipers. It's not like a wave serpent is easy to kill ether.
Yeah it's true it is an actual grievance about Eldar needing plenty of support but the ways to keep them alive exist. To top it off I'd call this a local meta problem as opposed to a global meta problem. Like people have said eliminators have been in the game for a bit and going to S5 didn't matter against T3 targets
Yeah intercessors are really good. It feels like they can generally commit to to most of the fight. Melee is huge now (thank god), the +1A on the charge is something I believe everyone should have though. Let marines keep their +1A on heroic intervention and when charged. But give everyone +1A on the charge again like before
T5 matters vs characters on bike.
Alright sure. Have you considered foot slogging to save points and get in transports, and maybe crimson hunters or other fast units to get to these guys? If it's a local meta that's your problem then adapt. If you know people are 100% going to take eliminators, plan for them.
I'm sure that the folks in the eldar tactics thread would be more helpful than myself.
BrianDavion wrote: I'm sorry but if your army needs 1-2 spells cast each turn to not suck, then the problem is not "OMG! OP Space Marines" your problem is YOUR ARMY IS POORLY DESIGNED.
Just in case you play Daemons, CSM, TS, DG, Asuryani, Ynnari, Harlequin, Orks, GSC, Tyranids, or GK, you should all know, your armies are horribly designed and you should feel bad for making such a poor choice.
BD has a solution though, git gud, stop playing bad armies nubs.
Thanks BD, that's some insightful commentary there.
Cults, Orks, Harlequins, and Death Guard are not that reliant on their psyker powers. Neither is GK, which is terrible to begin with.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Cults, Orks, Harlequins, and Death Guard are not that reliant on their psyker powers. Neither is GK, which is terrible to begin with.
Yes, and what would a Dakka board be without a little pedantry, thank you sir.
Also, I'm being mildly hypocritical since I don't think TS was well designed either, however, even with a good design, TS is going to be reliant on psychic powers.
Optimally, so would GK. Tyranids have always relied on psychic powers for certain aspects of their army, as have Chaos, Daemons, and Asuryani.
"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."
I think it's more an issue with squishy hq's being more vulnerable to snipers. Most armies are reliant on hq's as force multipliers so if they are more easily sniped it's hard to maintain your efficiency.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Cults, Orks, Harlequins, and Death Guard are not that reliant on their psyker powers. Neither is GK, which is terrible to begin with.
Yes, and what would a Dakka board be without a little pedantry, thank you sir.
Also, I'm being mildly hypocritical since I don't think TS was well designed either, however, even with a good design, TS is going to be reliant on psychic powers.
Optimally, so would GK. Tyranids have always relied on psychic powers for certain aspects of their army, as have Chaos, Daemons, and Asuryani.
This is why GK should have had Bespoke Powers (kinda like how they used to work) and then completely rework the Sanctic power table. Rubric Marines should focus on Aspiring Sorcerers buffing their squad in one of three ways (which I came up with rules for) instead of just being boring Smite batteries.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
BrianDavion wrote: I'm sorry but if your army needs 1-2 spells cast each turn to not suck, then the problem is not "OMG! OP Space Marines" your problem is YOUR ARMY IS POORLY DESIGNED.
Just in case you play Daemons, CSM, TS, DG, Asuryani, Ynnari, Harlequin, Orks, GSC, Tyranids, or GK, you should all know, your armies are horribly designed and you should feel bad for making such a poor choice.
BD has a solution though, git gud, stop playing bad armies nubs.
Thanks BD, that's some insightful commentary there.
I'm not saying "git good" I'm saying "if an army is so utterly dependant on psykic characters casting 1 or two spells each turn, then the army is proably poorly designed. (or specificly intended to have the weakness)
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Cults, Orks, Harlequins, and Death Guard are not that reliant on their psyker powers. Neither is GK, which is terrible to begin with.
Yes, and what would a Dakka board be without a little pedantry, thank you sir.
Also, I'm being mildly hypocritical since I don't think TS was well designed either, however, even with a good design, TS is going to be reliant on psychic powers.
Optimally, so would GK. Tyranids have always relied on psychic powers for certain aspects of their army, as have Chaos, Daemons, and Asuryani.
in fairness I was responding to someone who was refering to eldar psyker characters. GK and TS have "psyker squads"
and I stand by my stance, if your entire army is incapable of functioning without a specific HQ or character present, then your army is poorly designed. losing effectiveness? sure an army should lsoe effectiveness if you lose a HQ but if your army is dependant on your taking a 2-3 wound character... the proablem isn't with another codex.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/30 23:39:35
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
. I did this once in a friendly game a dude almost rage quit...Decided to sit them down for a bit. The last thing I expected was for eliminators was to get buffed...twice!
