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GaroRobe wrote:
I just realized they left the Librarian model out of the Space marine start collecting. I get that he's on a separate sprue, but that's still annoying.

Same goes for the Vanguard Captain. Only the Lieutenant is included, because he's on the same sprues as the rest.

 Redemption wrote:

GaroRobe wrote:
I just realized they left the Librarian model out of the Space marine start collecting. I get that he's on a separate sprue, but that's still annoying.

Same goes for the Vanguard Captain. Only the Lieutenant is included, because he's on the same sprues as the rest.

Do any Start Collect sets come with multiple HQ? Seem to makes sense to leave those out of the set for that reason alone

-

As a BA player who just bought the Phobos Librarian the Vanguard box is a perfect fit for me. Might even buy 2 of them since I never got to buy shadowspear. The second LT I could just convert to a Captain or trade off. The BA box on the other hand isnt tempting at all. Even a third Vanguard box is more interesting. Even if both were ~ 100 euros the vanguard box would look more tempting...

 Galef wrote:

 Redemption wrote:

GaroRobe wrote:
I just realized they left the Librarian model out of the Space marine start collecting. I get that he's on a separate sprue, but that's still annoying.

Same goes for the Vanguard Captain. Only the Lieutenant is included, because he's on the same sprues as the rest.

Do any Start Collect sets come with multiple HQ? Seem to makes sense to leave those out of the set for that reason alone

-

Three that come to mind are the Necron one (CCB and Overlord on foot), the T'au one if one (or more) of the Crisis suits is built as an XV8 Commander, the Astra Militarum one if the Leman is used as a Tank Commander.

WhiteDog wrote:
I'm tempted to start a drukhari army, but I'm not sure it's a good box to start. What do you guys think ?

Looks decent to me and a good starting point for a Drukhari army. You'll initially want to build towards a Kabalite force with this set as the starter so another Archon and more transports would be in order. The Reavers, saddly, are not a good unit so even if you wanted to work towards a Wych Cult you still probably wont get much out of them. Covens are excellent and Talos are a must have if you go that way but from this box will be something to use later once you've got Wracks and Haemonculi to go with them.

 Aenar wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 Redemption wrote:

GaroRobe wrote:
I just realized they left the Librarian model out of the Space marine start collecting. I get that he's on a separate sprue, but that's still annoying.

Same goes for the Vanguard Captain. Only the Lieutenant is included, because he's on the same sprues as the rest.

Do any Start Collect sets come with multiple HQ? Seem to makes sense to leave those out of the set for that reason alone

-

Three that come to mind are the Necron one (CCB and Overlord on foot), the T'au one if one (or more) of the Crisis suits is built as an XV8 Commander, the Astra Militarum one if the Leman is used as a Tank Commander.

The Militarum Tempestus one, too. You can build a Lord Commissar and a Tempestor Prime.

WhiteDog wrote:
I'm tempted to start a drukhari army, but I'm not sure it's a good box to start. What do you guys think ?

It's a good place to start. The units are all solid (except maybe the jetbikes, which are good but not great), but it's an organizational mess because Drukhari are split into three mini-codexes. If you buy another couple Venoms (cheap on eBay currently) and another Archon or Drazhar you'll have a Kabal battalion, and the plane is really good to add to it. The reaver jet bikes and Talos aren't usable unless you buy HQs and more units to make Wych and Covern detachments, but the start collecting is good for wych support at least.

 Apple Peel wrote:

 Aenar wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 Redemption wrote:

GaroRobe wrote:
I just realized they left the Librarian model out of the Space marine start collecting. I get that he's on a separate sprue, but that's still annoying.

Same goes for the Vanguard Captain. Only the Lieutenant is included, because he's on the same sprues as the rest.

Do any Start Collect sets come with multiple HQ? Seem to makes sense to leave those out of the set for that reason alone

-

Three that come to mind are the Necron one (CCB and Overlord on foot), the T'au one if one (or more) of the Crisis suits is built as an XV8 Commander, the Astra Militarum one if the Leman is used as a Tank Commander.

The Militarum Tempestus one, too. You can build a Lord Commissar and a Tempestor Prime.

There\s notable pattern here though. All mentioned characters can be build as non-character model as well. Necron, tau, IG, tempestus...Marine ones from shadowspear don't build non-character unit out of them. So not really comparable

Age of sigmar sets do.
The starter set start collectings have all their heroes (but they're on the same sprue...so)

The Duardin one has a cogsmith and a warden king.
Fyreslayer has a couple but only due to the magmadroth set.

Klickor wrote:
As a BA player who just bought the Phobos Librarian the Vanguard box is a perfect fit for me. Might even buy 2 of them since I never got to buy shadowspear. The second LT I could just convert to a Captain or trade off. The BA box on the other hand isnt tempting at all. Even a third Vanguard box is more interesting. Even if both were ~ 100 euros the vanguard box would look more tempting...

I plan on getting two and using the 2nd Lieutenant as a way of creating a different looking sergeant for the infiltrators units. Maybe trying to split the 2nd unit in to 2x 5man squads instead of a second 10 man squad.

 Redemption wrote:

GaroRobe wrote:
I just realized they left the Librarian model out of the Space marine start collecting. I get that he's on a separate sprue, but that's still annoying.

Same goes for the Vanguard Captain. Only the Lieutenant is included, because he's on the same sprues as the rest.

Skeletor dude is on separate sprue, like VL and VC, yet he was included despite CSM half being much better deal than Vanguard already...

craggy wrote:
well, there's the new Shadowspear, and Space Wolves Primaris SC boxes, and if they're not any use, any of the Dark Imperium stuff, or buying the ETB kits separately would probably give a decent amount of Primaris if you're looking to save money. Considering what would probably be in a SC set is all already easily available at a discount maybe they've focussed more on giving us other stuff in those? Hell, see if you can nab some of the Conquest magazines for cheap on ebay. The generic Primaris probably go pretty cheap.

Shadowspear is vanguard, though, not primaris. Yes, technically they are subset of primaris, but it's like telling someone who wants to collect oldmarines and waits for SC with tactical squad that box with two assault squads is, like, totally the same thing. Add to that frakking up vanguard with both mediocre rules (especially their officers...) and denying them both HQ models from spear and you get pretty garbage, unappealing box. I'd maybe say to anyone considering getting it to go for it, but only on really big discount and certainly not for full SC price.

As for SC wolfwolves, most of the "discount" is eaten up by upgrade sprues (that are useless for not-wolfwolves players) and the fact their lieutenant has wargear doubly illegal for literally any other SM chapter, making it one of the worst values of the entire SC line unless you intend to use it as SW-only box. I have no idea why GW had to gak it up so much, if it was BA or DA SC you could at least make use of their lieutenants and most of the upgrades even for generic marines, SW, not so much...

And yeah, I pretty much gave up on SC ever coming out and I'm currently waiting for Conquest to come to my (or neighboring) country, but still, it would be nice to see something come with full intercessor/reiver kits at a discount, for ease of conversions if anything.

 Irbis wrote:


As for SC wolfwolves, most of the "discount" is eaten up by upgrade sprues (that are useless for not-wolfwolves players) and the fact their lieutenant has wargear doubly illegal for literally any other SM chapter, making it one of the worst values of the entire SC line unless you intend to use it as SW-only box. I have no idea why GW had to gak it up so much, if it was BA or DA SC you could at least make use of their lieutenants and most of the upgrades even for generic marines, SW, not so much...

A product called 'Start Collecting Space Wolves' and you're criticising it for not being much use or value unless you 'intend to use it as a SW only box'?

"I have no idea why GW had to (why are you swearing) it up so much."

In this case, and UK players will remember the Ronseal ads, this product does EXACTLY what is says on the tin, to wit, providing Space Wolves.

Obviously, this product is not for you. On a plus side, someone who wants Space Wolves won't be disappointed because you bought the last one. Save your pennies because next year could see Battleforce Space Marines released.

Personally I'm narked because the Dark Elves box won't allow me to increase the size of my Leman Russ platoon.

Thanks for the answers Imateria and Atlatl Jones. I'll check the codex in detail before making a decision.

 Irbis wrote:

 Redemption wrote:

GaroRobe wrote:
I just realized they left the Librarian model out of the Space marine start collecting. I get that he's on a separate sprue, but that's still annoying.

Same goes for the Vanguard Captain. Only the Lieutenant is included, because he's on the same sprues as the rest.

Skeletor dude is on separate sprue, like VL and VC, yet he was included despite CSM half being much better deal than Vanguard already...

craggy wrote:
well, there's the new Shadowspear, and Space Wolves Primaris SC boxes, and if they're not any use, any of the Dark Imperium stuff, or buying the ETB kits separately would probably give a decent amount of Primaris if you're looking to save money. Considering what would probably be in a SC set is all already easily available at a discount maybe they've focussed more on giving us other stuff in those? Hell, see if you can nab some of the Conquest magazines for cheap on ebay. The generic Primaris probably go pretty cheap.

Shadowspear is vanguard, though, not primaris. Yes, technically they are subset of primaris, but it's like telling someone who wants to collect oldmarines and waits for SC with tactical squad that box with two assault squads is, like, totally the same thing. Add to that frakking up vanguard with both mediocre rules (especially their officers...) and denying them both HQ models from spear and you get pretty garbage, unappealing box. I'd maybe say to anyone considering getting it to go for it, but only on really big discount and certainly not for full SC price.

As for SC wolfwolves, most of the "discount" is eaten up by upgrade sprues (that are useless for not-wolfwolves players) and the fact their lieutenant has wargear doubly illegal for literally any other SM chapter, making it one of the worst values of the entire SC line unless you intend to use it as SW-only box. I have no idea why GW had to gak it up so much, if it was BA or DA SC you could at least make use of their lieutenants and most of the upgrades even for generic marines, SW, not so much...

And yeah, I pretty much gave up on SC ever coming out and I'm currently waiting for Conquest to come to my (or neighboring) country, but still, it would be nice to see something come with full intercessor/reiver kits at a discount, for ease of conversions if anything.

I totally agree about the SC start collecting. It is really lackluster if you compare it to the CSM part of shadowspear. If the box had the actual kit of the eliminator and the incursor/infiltrator it would a different discussion tho.

Wow, people are in a twist because the start collecting boxes aren't the bees knees?

I was worried this was going to happen, that the Start Collecting for CSM and SM would be just the shadowspear stuff. At the very least, there are models that you can only get in those kits (suppressors, lt, the helix adept on one side, and pretty much everything bar the chaos marines on the other).

Ah well. I guess we'll see what happens in the next year.

WhiteDog wrote:

I totally agree about the SC start collecting. It is really lackluster if you compare it to the CSM part of shadowspear. If the box had the actual kit of the eliminator and the incursor/infiltrator it would a different discussion tho.

And if it had "the actual kit" of the Eliminator or the Phobos specialists?

There wouldn't be the Phobos Lieutenant with carbine+grav chute or the Helix-Adept or any Suppressors outside of Shadowspear.
Because the sprues literally don't allow for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

drbored wrote:
Wow, people are in a twist because the start collecting boxes aren't the bees knees?

I was worried this was going to happen, that the Start Collecting for CSM and SM would be just the shadowspear stuff. At the very least, there are models that you can only get in those kits (suppressors, lt, the helix adept on one side, and pretty much everything bar the chaos marines on the other).

Ah well. I guess we'll see what happens in the next year.

Frankly, GW kind of shot themselves in the foot with the original Start Collecting sets. The intention was to have "jumping off" points for people, hence the Formations and Warscroll Battalions allowing for someone to circumvent the required "1 HQ 2 Troops" purchases of the past...

But the Great Deal wasn't limited to new players. It became a way for existing players to get stuff cheap instead.

We all know that Kanluwen. It doesn't change the fact that there is a huge inequality between those two boxes as they are now (point wise and model wise).

 Kanluwen wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:

I totally agree about the SC start collecting. It is really lackluster if you compare it to the CSM part of shadowspear. If the box had the actual kit of the eliminator and the incursor/infiltrator it would a different discussion tho.

And if it had "the actual kit" of the Eliminator or the Phobos specialists?

There wouldn't be the Phobos Lieutenant with carbine+grav chute or the Helix-Adept or any Suppressors outside of Shadowspear.
Because the sprues literally don't allow for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

drbored wrote:
Wow, people are in a twist because the start collecting boxes aren't the bees knees?

I was worried this was going to happen, that the Start Collecting for CSM and SM would be just the shadowspear stuff. At the very least, there are models that you can only get in those kits (suppressors, lt, the helix adept on one side, and pretty much everything bar the chaos marines on the other).

Ah well. I guess we'll see what happens in the next year.

Frankly, GW kind of shot themselves in the foot with the original Start Collecting sets. The intention was to have "jumping off" points for people, hence the Formations and Warscroll Battalions allowing for someone to circumvent the required "1 HQ 2 Troops" purchases of the past...

But the Great Deal wasn't limited to new players. It became a way for existing players to get stuff cheap instead.

Only with GW would that be a problem. Their materials cost is literally a couple dollars per box, combine that with made up conversion rates and GW is make several thousand percent return on investment while also being able to bundle underperforming kits together with strong perfomers and increase sales volumes at the same time.

Oh, and that's not even counting instances where bundling underperforming kits together can create enough value that it becomes a strong performer in its own right (look at fyreslayers with the magmadroth box. No one could afford to build a fyreslayers army before that. Now that box is a top seller at still enormous margins.)

That GW thinks they're not making enough money on these at 85-95$ is someone in corporate seeing their share value going up for the past few quarters and thinking 'I bet if we gouged them even harder I could retire to Cabo in my 30s.'

tneva82 wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:

 Aenar wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 Redemption wrote:

GaroRobe wrote:
I just realized they left the Librarian model out of the Space marine start collecting. I get that he's on a separate sprue, but that's still annoying.

Same goes for the Vanguard Captain. Only the Lieutenant is included, because he's on the same sprues as the rest.

Do any Start Collect sets come with multiple HQ? Seem to makes sense to leave those out of the set for that reason alone

-

Three that come to mind are the Necron one (CCB and Overlord on foot), the T'au one if one (or more) of the Crisis suits is built as an XV8 Commander, the Astra Militarum one if the Leman is used as a Tank Commander.

The Militarum Tempestus one, too. You can build a Lord Commissar and a Tempestor Prime.

There\s notable pattern here though. All mentioned characters can be build as non-character model as well. Necron, tau, IG, tempestus...Marine ones from shadowspear don't build non-character unit out of them. So not really comparable

Hah! I just realized you could build a Lord Commissar and two Tempestor Primes with their command squads! That’s three!

Sorry I couldnt see if its been posted, but does anyone have the price n pounds for the new Necromunda floor tiles? Thanks

 Inquisitor Kallus wrote:
Sorry I couldnt see if its been posted, but does anyone have the price n pounds for the new Necromunda floor tiles? Thanks

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/781764.page#10609983

$65 is £40 in GW exchange rates

In other news the list must be fake it totally missed the coffee cup

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Black-Library-Bamboo-Coffee-Cup-2019

the marine SC box is hoenstly not that bad, it's 1 HQ, 1 troop choice, 1 fast attack, and 1 heavy support. that's a patrol detachment. no it's not the full multipart kit, but for someone looking to just start space Marines it's not bad at all

 DaveC wrote:

 Inquisitor Kallus wrote:
Sorry I couldnt see if its been posted, but does anyone have the price n pounds for the new Necromunda floor tiles? Thanks

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/781764.page#10609983

$65 is £40 in GW exchange rates

In other news the list must be fake it totally missed the coffee cup

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Black-Library-Bamboo-Coffee-Cup-2019

Thankyou my good man. That seems fairly reasonable price wise

WhiteDog wrote:
We all know that Kanluwen. It doesn't change the fact that there is a huge inequality between those two boxes as they are now (point wise and model wise).

And money wise? How differing the value in money is? SC's are never balanced with points and model count wise anyway. They aren't intended as armies vs each other. What matters is a) what's the discount % b) how useful the units themselves are. If it's complete junk it's not much worth. I doubt many would buy box of 3 stompas even if it was 50% discounted!

tneva82 wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:
We all know that Kanluwen. It doesn't change the fact that there is a huge inequality between those two boxes as they are now (point wise and model wise).

And money wise? How differing the value in money is? SC's are never balanced with points and model count wise anyway. They aren't intended as armies vs each other. What matters is a) what's the discount % b) how useful the units themselves are. If it's complete junk it's not much worth. I doubt many would buy box of 3 stompas even if it was 50% discounted!

It would be nice if GW added a sprue or two to the stompa kit to give it alternate head and weapon options. I'd buy one or two more if they did that, even if the rules are bad.

Loads more pre order goodies are up for sale, they pretty much match the list so the $290 for the Necromunda is looking scarily accurate

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/New-Exclusive?N=1477570038+3206404541&Nr=AND%28sku.siteId%3AUS_gw%2Cproduct.locale%3Aen_US_gw%29&Nrs=collection%28%29%2Frecord%5Bproduct.startDate+%3C%3D+1572696480000+and+product.endDate+%3E%3D+1572696480000%5D&_requestid=8772955&view=all



WD Apocrypha
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/White-Dwarf-Apocrypha-2019?fbclid=IwAR0IvliaSMm0uCO8WY5gcxhaQEM38GFBTK94FFtPplvvWSLdKveTO-t95n8&utm_campaign=40KWhiteDwarfApocryphaNov2&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_content=40KWhiteDwarfApocryphaNov2

No surprise they haven't sold out of the Advent Calendars. I logged on at 10am while in the gym this morning thinking "if this is under £60 I'm having it, and I don't want to miss out!" Turns out it's £90 and it's still available now despite being limited to 1364 units. I'm guessing many people did exactly as I did and thought Feth that at £90.

Eh its actually cheaper than I thought it would be based on what GW tends to charge for artwork. It's a specialist thing and its likely also hampered a bit in sales because you don't know exactly what art you are getting. I've have shown off more of the art in a big spread showing each month with perhaps one or two special surprise ones.

Still at only 1364 I'm sure it will sell out

I wonder what the Champions of Dreadfane is. I enjoy both of those Warbands in Underworlds, so I would love to see more for them.

 Scottywan82 wrote:
I wonder what the Champions of Dreadfane is. I enjoy both of those Warbands in Underworlds, so I would love to see more for them.

It's just the 2 Warbands from Dreadfane - Ironsoul's Condemnors and Lady Harrow's Mournflight packed together for general release as the full Dreadfane box set is only available in the US, Germany and Canada

 DaveC wrote:

 Scottywan82 wrote:
I wonder what the Champions of Dreadfane is. I enjoy both of those Warbands in Underworlds, so I would love to see more for them.

It's just the 2 Warbands from Dreadfane - Ironsoul's Condemnors and Lady Harrow's Mournflight packed together for general release as the full Dreadfane box set is only available in the US, Germany and Canada

Interesting. I wonder if it has new general cards, since Dreadfane only had the faction specific decks. If not, I am surprised this would be cheaper than just buying Dreadfane.