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So I'm a returning CSM player, and I just noticed that my old codex is not longer legal. While mildly annoying Im excited for the expanded ruleset, Im unsure of what to buy, the GW website says I can buy either the 2.0 codex or just Vigilus Ablaze if I have the orginal 8th ed codex (which I do).
Is it worth it to buy just Vigilus? Or will my old codex be a lot of effort to update to the new rules?

Definitely get the 2.0 codex. Vigilus Ablaze does not have the rules for the new models that came with shadowspear like the new obliterators or the venomcrawler.

But you can download the updated units in a free pdf.
I think if you already have the 8th Edition codex Vigilus is a better pick for the story and the campaign. Also the updated Codex doesn't have the Vigilus detachments.

that said IF you play Black Legion, you'll also want vigilius ablaze.

BrianDavion wrote:
that said IF you play Black Legion, you'll also want vigilius ablaze.

Lucky for me, I don't, (Fallen Angels since before they had unit outside of Cypher, ran with Alpha Legion traits) so it looks like 2.0 might be the way to go, thanks.

It really kind of sucks you even have to have such a discussion on the matter. I seriously dislike needing multiple books for one army I'd rather 1 more expensive but comprehensive book, than a few moderate priced ones to feel like I have all the bits and bobs for my armies.

Yeah, that means I dislike the supplements and I do. I just miss the days we had one more solid book is all. Though I get the books must flow to put GW into their ball pit made of cash.

 thepowerfulwill wrote:
Lucky for me, I don't, (Fallen Angels since before they had unit outside of Cypher, ran with Alpha Legion traits) so it looks like 2.0 might be the way to go, thanks.

Hold on, though. Vigilus Ablaze also gives you a specialist detachment that makes Fallen playable as Fallen rather than counts-as. Plus some other useful specialist detachments that can make any CSM army better.

Everything in Codex CSM 2.0 is either also in VA or can be downloaded for free. VA however has things that you cannot get any other way (legally, anyway).

Nobody who already owns Codex CSM 1.0 should buy the 2.0 version. VA is just a better buy, period.

AngryAngel80 wrote:
It really kind of sucks you even have to have such a discussion on the matter. I seriously dislike needing multiple books for one army I'd rather 1 more expensive but comprehensive book, than a few moderate priced ones to feel like I have all the bits and bobs for my armies.

Yeah, that means I dislike the supplements and I do. I just miss the days we had one more solid book is all. Though I get the books must flow to put GW into their ball pit made of cash.

in fairness if they put out the info in the suplements in a single book codex space marines would have had another 19-20 pages of dataslates alone. figure a page of text for each unit and suddenly you've potentially added 40 odd pages. and that's before additional relics etc are factored in.

I'm of the opinion the space marine supplements owe their genisis to GW trying to tackle the problem of "codex space marines has gotten too big, how can we trim it down" generally GW seems loathe to squat things. (not that I blame them. people get cranky when the expensive model they bought 6 months ago they're told they can't use) so I suspect they hit upon the idea to put the characters in supplements. of course this meant that they needed additional material to pad them out.

BrianDavion wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:
It really kind of sucks you even have to have such a discussion on the matter. I seriously dislike needing multiple books for one army I'd rather 1 more expensive but comprehensive book, than a few moderate priced ones to feel like I have all the bits and bobs for my armies.

Yeah, that means I dislike the supplements and I do. I just miss the days we had one more solid book is all. Though I get the books must flow to put GW into their ball pit made of cash.

in fairness if they put out the info in the suplements in a single book codex space marines would have had another 19-20 pages of dataslates alone. figure a page of text for each unit and suddenly you've potentially added 40 odd pages. and that's before additional relics etc are factored in.

I'm of the opinion the space marine supplements owe their genisis to GW trying to tackle the problem of "codex space marines has gotten too big, how can we trim it down" generally GW seems loathe to squat things. (not that I blame them. people get cranky when the expensive model they bought 6 months ago they're told they can't use) so I suspect they hit upon the idea to put the characters in supplements. of course this meant that they needed additional material to pad them out.

And that would've been an issue?
Oh noes i get 19-20 specific trait bound units?

No if anything , gw split the dex up in a quasi "effort" to trim down, in essence though they just want to sell more books.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Duskweaver wrote:

 thepowerfulwill wrote:
Lucky for me, I don't, (Fallen Angels since before they had unit outside of Cypher, ran with Alpha Legion traits) so it looks like 2.0 might be the way to go, thanks.

Hold on, though. Vigilus Ablaze also gives you a specialist detachment that makes Fallen playable as Fallen rather than counts-as. Plus some other useful specialist detachments that can make any CSM army better.

Everything in Codex CSM 2.0 is either also in VA or can be downloaded for free. VA however has things that you cannot get any other way (legally, anyway).

Nobody who already owns Codex CSM 1.0 should buy the 2.0 version. VA is just a better buy, period.

Yeah, you need the Shadowspear daemonkin booklet though, because GW "updated" (nerfed) Obliterators and the missing units are there, and whilest most of them are meh at best, they are atleast a bit interesting.

Not Online!!! wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:
It really kind of sucks you even have to have such a discussion on the matter. I seriously dislike needing multiple books for one army I'd rather 1 more expensive but comprehensive book, than a few moderate priced ones to feel like I have all the bits and bobs for my armies.

Yeah, that means I dislike the supplements and I do. I just miss the days we had one more solid book is all. Though I get the books must flow to put GW into their ball pit made of cash.

in fairness if they put out the info in the suplements in a single book codex space marines would have had another 19-20 pages of dataslates alone. figure a page of text for each unit and suddenly you've potentially added 40 odd pages. and that's before additional relics etc are factored in.

I'm of the opinion the space marine supplements owe their genisis to GW trying to tackle the problem of "codex space marines has gotten too big, how can we trim it down" generally GW seems loathe to squat things. (not that I blame them. people get cranky when the expensive model they bought 6 months ago they're told they can't use) so I suspect they hit upon the idea to put the characters in supplements. of course this meant that they needed additional material to pad them out.

And that would've been an issue?
Oh noes i get 19-20 specific trait bound units?

No if anything , gw split the dex up in a quasi "effort" to trim down, in essence though they just want to sell more books.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Duskweaver wrote:

 thepowerfulwill wrote:
Lucky for me, I don't, (Fallen Angels since before they had unit outside of Cypher, ran with Alpha Legion traits) so it looks like 2.0 might be the way to go, thanks.

Hold on, though. Vigilus Ablaze also gives you a specialist detachment that makes Fallen playable as Fallen rather than counts-as. Plus some other useful specialist detachments that can make any CSM army better.

Everything in Codex CSM 2.0 is either also in VA or can be downloaded for free. VA however has things that you cannot get any other way (legally, anyway).

Nobody who already owns Codex CSM 1.0 should buy the 2.0 version. VA is just a better buy, period.

Yeah, you need the Shadowspear daemonkin booklet though, because GW "updated" (nerfed) Obliterators and the missing units are there, and whilest most of them are meh at best, they are atleast a bit interesting.

They're all in the free official pdf though, so I'd repeat what duskweaver said, if you have Codex 1.0, buy Vigilus, not 2.0.

Not with points though

Also not with warlord traits.

BrianDavion wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:
It really kind of sucks you even have to have such a discussion on the matter. I seriously dislike needing multiple books for one army I'd rather 1 more expensive but comprehensive book, than a few moderate priced ones to feel like I have all the bits and bobs for my armies.

Yeah, that means I dislike the supplements and I do. I just miss the days we had one more solid book is all. Though I get the books must flow to put GW into their ball pit made of cash.

in fairness if they put out the info in the suplements in a single book codex space marines would have had another 19-20 pages of dataslates alone. figure a page of text for each unit and suddenly you've potentially added 40 odd pages. and that's before additional relics etc are factored in.

I'm of the opinion the space marine supplements owe their genisis to GW trying to tackle the problem of "codex space marines has gotten too big, how can we trim it down" generally GW seems loathe to squat things. (not that I blame them. people get cranky when the expensive model they bought 6 months ago they're told they can't use) so I suspect they hit upon the idea to put the characters in supplements. of course this meant that they needed additional material to pad them out.

You really believe that ? I really don't think they gave a damn about how big codex space marine was getting. I can't speak for everyone but I would have loved to have all the information in one book as opposed to over many, even if it cost more. I think this was a clear matter of breaking it up to charge you more anyways and make it so if you want to have all the books you're being charged a ton rather than just a bit more.

I just don't get how GW can keep up with it when its so easy for people to pirate the books and more and more people are doing that. It's the same thing for the ever growing costs of the models. As 3D printing grows in support, how long do they think people will pay these prices rather than just get a box than print off the copies ? Comes a point their bloat in greed will bite them in the butt. As well I'd say book size wouldn't be an issue with the electronic formats.

BrianDavion 781823 10611108 wrote:
in fairness if they put out the info in the suplements in a single book codex space marines would have had another 19-20 pages of dataslates alone. figure a page of text for each unit and suddenly you've potentially added 40 odd pages. and that's before additional relics etc are factored in.

I'm of the opinion the space marine supplements owe their genisis to GW trying to tackle the problem of "codex space marines has gotten too big, how can we trim it down" generally GW seems loathe to squat things. (not that I blame them. people get cranky when the expensive model they bought 6 months ago they're told they can't use) so I suspect they hit upon the idea to put the characters in supplements. of course this meant that they needed additional material to pad them out.

Well they could cut on the useless pages of model pictures one can see on their site or even box cover art. There is like 30 free pages there. Same thing with copy paste art. New stuff is welcome, but how many times does on have to read in a GK codex about the creation of GK. That is 3 books with copy paste stuff, and other codex are probably the same.

And supplements are even worse, the books cost like books for school for 3-4 pages of rules, unless your an ultramarine. Only thing worse is the CA, where you pay a full rulebook price for 2 pages of rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AngryAngel80 781823 10611134 wrote:
I really don't think they gave a damn about how big codex space marine was getting. I can't speak for everyone but I would have loved to have all the information in one book as opposed to over many, even if it cost more. I think this was a clear matter of breaking it up to charge you more anyways and make it so if you want to have all the books you're being charged a ton rather than just a bit more.

I think that if GW could sell the rules for each unit separate, they would do it. Their rules set look more and more to me like mobile games, with seson passes, unlocking better grind options, more energy and generaly paying real money for quality of life stuff, that should be in the base game.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Not with points though
Also not with warlord traits.

OK, so also pick up the Daemonkin minidex on Ebay for... a whole £1.88 with free postage. Still no reason to buy the 2.0 codex.

Karol wrote:

BrianDavion 781823 10611108 wrote:
in fairness if they put out the info in the suplements in a single book codex space marines would have had another 19-20 pages of dataslates alone. figure a page of text for each unit and suddenly you've potentially added 40 odd pages. and that's before additional relics etc are factored in.

I'm of the opinion the space marine supplements owe their genisis to GW trying to tackle the problem of "codex space marines has gotten too big, how can we trim it down" generally GW seems loathe to squat things. (not that I blame them. people get cranky when the expensive model they bought 6 months ago they're told they can't use) so I suspect they hit upon the idea to put the characters in supplements. of course this meant that they needed additional material to pad them out.

Well they could cut on the useless pages of model pictures one can see on their site or even box cover art. There is like 30 free pages there. Same thing with copy paste art. New stuff is welcome, but how many times does on have to read in a GK codex about the creation of GK. That is 3 books with copy paste stuff, and other codex are probably the same.

yeah who gives a damn about new players coming to the game right Karol? they should just hunt down a codex from 4 editions ago at a used bookstore!

I am a new player, and I had to download the old books, to at least see how GK looked in the past. But GW could put the lore on their community site. It is not like those are gigantic novels. And the unit descriptions from codex could be on their site next to the unit price and what is in the box.

No hunting of old book is required. But of course, this would mean they would sell people 1 less book, and give stuff for free. A nightmare scenario for a company.

Giving anything for free with GW has to be about the same as waking up in a cold sweat from a night terror, don't worry, it was just a dream GW, we know you wouldn't give anything for free.

At this point maybe I should just run them as basic loyalist marines. Jeez...

But in all seriousness, if I'm playing with points costs, not power points, does vigilus have those or will I have to print out more?

 thepowerfulwill wrote:
At this point maybe I should just run them as basic loyalist marines. Jeez...

But in all seriousness, if I'm playing with points costs, not power points, does vigilus have those or will I have to print out more?

Vigilus has both plus renegade orders.

 Riddick40k wrote:
Definitely get the 2.0 codex. Vigilus Ablaze does not have the rules for the new models that came with shadowspear like the new obliterators or the venomcrawler.

DO NOT get 2.0

Download the updates and get Vigilus.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Not with points though

Also not with warlord traits.

Battlescribe will do for that stuff. It's just not worth the money.

Use Battlescribe. Read up on detachments online. Do not buy their messed up CSM codexes.

Also CSM are about to get a reboot of sorts - I believe we're next in line for a Phoenix Arises supplement. I'd be happy playing around on Battlescribe until then if I were you.

For what it is worth OP I have been plying CSM for almost 2 years. I used the OG codex + Vigilus + Demonkin mini dex + FAQs.

Carrying all that sucked so I just recently bought the 2.0 version and am looking forward to just bringing that + FAQs. Ablaze is a cool book and worth the money (I do like playing Narrative though so YMMV) but carrying all that got stupid. I never used much of the detachment from Vigilus though or the Renegade Chapters as I am pretty happy just running my World Eaters + Alpha Legion army.

 grouchoben wrote:
Use Battlescribe. Read up on detachments online. Do not buy their messed up CSM codexes.

Also CSM are about to get a reboot of sorts - I believe we're next in line for a Phoenix Arises supplement. I'd be happy playing around on Battlescribe until then if I were you.

A reboot seems unlikely given thier codex is fairly new.

BrianDavion wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
Use Battlescribe. Read up on detachments online. Do not buy their messed up CSM codexes.

Also CSM are about to get a reboot of sorts - I believe we're next in line for a Phoenix Arises supplement. I'd be happy playing around on Battlescribe until then if I were you.

A reboot seems unlikely given thier codex is fairly new.

The codex isn't really new. It's the same just with more datasheets (roughly). Not that it means we'll see an update sooner, either.

If you really think CSM is going to get a reboot I praise you for dreams but fine you for being a sweet innocent soul. I doubt they'll give a single redone book after dropping the 2.0 book not long back. I'd say all you'll have to look forward to is more and more splat books with rules drizzled out all over the place.

Think of it like a pu pu platter of bloat, gather round and feast on the bits you like just leave home what you don't.

Wait 6 months until they fix your codex then come back, Chaos is hot garbage right now.

I got the 2.0 dex and I regret it. If I were you I'd first check 1d4chan and then decide what you need. Vigilus has detachments and Black Legion rules, the minidex from the box seems to have some traits you can't otherwise get (and there's no way I'm getting the box for that). If all you need is the profiles, then you can get 2.0 for convenience, since that is all it brings to the table.Regardless of what you choose there are a dozen faqs you need to lug around. Worse than 7th ed ever was if you ask me.

Fallen Angels have a detachment in Ablaze but it's not suddenly going to make them amazing and tbh you'd be better off with marine rules, like, a lot.

AngryAngel80 wrote:
If you really think CSM is going to get a reboot I praise you for dreams but fine you for being a sweet innocent soul. I doubt they'll give a single redone book after dropping the 2.0 book not long back. I'd say all you'll have to look forward to is more and more splat books with rules drizzled out all over the place.

Think of it like a pu pu platter of bloat, gather round and feast on the bits you like just leave home what you don't.

They don't need a reboot codex. They need some slightly stronger traits (that also apply to vehicles) and some points tweaks. All things easily contained within CA if GW has the will to do so. There is no need for 'choose your own chapters' right now.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
They don't need a reboot codex. They need some slightly stronger traits (that also apply to vehicles) and some points tweaks. All things easily contained within CA if GW has the will to do so. There is no need for 'choose your own chapters' right now.

First of all, saying that's 'all they need' is radically oversimplifying things with no actual data to back up your claim.

They will not be getting an update beyond what crap-fest is included in the upcoming PA. I half expect a reprint of Fabius Bile, or some such other utterly useless pile of gak.

No enhanced Legion traits (they won't get this in CA btw, we'll be paying for a new codex to get this).
No way to deal with deep strike.
No drop pods (our FW units will be going away, or at least marked as 'not balanced for match play' which is the same thing).
No snipers, no way to get snipers.

I'm sorry, but what we got in the codex update was a joke seeing what we've seen over the past few months, a bad joke. VA helped a bit, but you won't be seeing Chaos doing anything anytime soon.

The luckiest we might get is a slow trickle of updates like PA. Eventually we'll get a 2.0 codex and will buy Legion supplements like loyalists. However, it will take at least a year to see something like that, as it will involve updates and refreshes to the model line.

We're screwed for at least the next 12 months, happy to be wrong.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
They don't need a reboot codex. They need some slightly stronger traits (that also apply to vehicles) and some points tweaks. All things easily contained within CA if GW has the will to do so. There is no need for 'choose your own chapters' right now.

First of all, saying that's 'all they need' is radically oversimplifying things with no actual data to back up your claim.

They will not be getting an update beyond what crap-fest is included in the upcoming PA. I half expect a reprint of Fabius Bile, or some such other utterly useless pile of gak.

No enhanced Legion traits (they won't get this in CA btw, we'll be paying for a new codex to get this).
No way to deal with deep strike.
No drop pods (our FW units will be going away, or at least marked as 'not balanced for match play' which is the same thing).
No snipers, no way to get snipers.

I'm sorry, but what we got in the codex update was a joke seeing what we've seen over the past few months, a bad joke. VA helped a bit, but you won't be seeing Chaos doing anything anytime soon.

The luckiest we might get is a slow trickle of updates like PA. Eventually we'll get a 2.0 codex and will buy Legion supplements like loyalists. However, it will take at least a year to see something like that, as it will involve updates and refreshes to the model line.

We're screwed for at least the next 12 months, happy to be wrong.

What makes you think the FW units are going away?