Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Personally I find a lot of the Xenos armies well supported model-wise. More units does not equate to a better army, and more often than not just means there is more crap to use and be disappointed by. In AoS I play FEC and more or less every unit I have a use for and I enjoy that a lot.

My biggest issue with the state of the Xenos is more that too much of the crap has either been removed(like the Drukhari HQ and elites) or is sitting ugly in metal or resin(Drukhari and Craftworld stuff).

PenitentJake wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Hellebore wrote:

If you want to get technical, Harlequins had a separate army list in 1st ed back when the custodes was represented by a single entry of a leather daddy in a dong helmet...

Holy gak I'm dying.

If there was any time we might actually see more Xenos models it is now. I'm sure GW still has Primaris Bikes / Flyers, but at the rate they're going they will need to tap innto other areas..

All current information points to this being incorrect. GW have no interest in releasing anything but Marine models. Once they’ve tapped out on their Primaris, they’ll no doubt do more CSM stuff (EC, WE perhaps). Xenos are, as always, fethed.

So look, here's the evidence you say doesn't exist: GW just released an Elder vs Eldar box with a pure Eldar supplement after resculpting four eldar units in plastic. Also, December's PA is nids- sure there will be some marine content, but there will be Xenos content too.

How many space marines are there in Blackstone Fortress again? Oh yeah, none. The army that's being released this month... Sure, not Xenos, but not Space Marine either, right?

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Xenos aren't under-supported- they are... So far. But it is absolutely ridiculous of you to claim that GW has no interest in releasing anything but space marines the month after a major eldar release and the month before new content for Nids.

Back to Harlequins- remember the jetbikes with the sculpted mask canopies? I remember walkers too, but I don't remember if they were actual models or kitbashes of Wrathlords and sculpted bike canopies. Either way, they looked AMAZING and I wish we would get them back.

Also, please remember that codices are more than units. Sure, Quins only have 8 units, but having a dex is what gives them Masque forms, WL Traits, Strats, and Relics. They either wouldn't have any, or at least they would have fewer if they got rolled into someone else's dex.

Is that a joke? Outside of the Spiritseer model and the one in BSF, Eldar haven't received a release in over 6 years. The book is a shadow of what the marines got at the same time regardless of whether it was a low tier supplement or not. I would say Xenos do get screwed.

4 resculpts split between 2 factions is a major release compared to what Marines get on the regular.

IIRC during Phoenix Risings release Marines both had more and better releases than all Eldar.

PenitentJake wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Hellebore wrote:

If you want to get technical, Harlequins had a separate army list in 1st ed back when the custodes was represented by a single entry of a leather daddy in a dong helmet...

Holy gak I'm dying.

If there was any time we might actually see more Xenos models it is now. I'm sure GW still has Primaris Bikes / Flyers, but at the rate they're going they will need to tap innto other areas..

All current information points to this being incorrect. GW have no interest in releasing anything but Marine models. Once they’ve tapped out on their Primaris, they’ll no doubt do more CSM stuff (EC, WE perhaps). Xenos are, as always, fethed.

So look, here's the evidence you say doesn't exist: GW just released an Elder vs Eldar box with a pure Eldar supplement after resculpting four eldar units in plastic. Also, December's PA is nids- sure there will be some marine content, but there will be Xenos content too.

How many space marines are there in Blackstone Fortress again? Oh yeah, none. The army that's being released this month... Sure, not Xenos, but not Space Marine either, right?

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Xenos aren't under-supported- they are... So far. But it is absolutely ridiculous of you to claim that GW has no interest in releasing anything but space marines the month after a major eldar release and the month before new content for Nids.

You might have missed it in your eagerness to defend GW but we were discussing MODEL releases man, not just rules stuff.

Unless you know better than all those part numbers for the leaked order form that was shared, it seems likely that Nids get sweet FA in terms of models in PA3. BA are getting an updated Mephiston, as we know. Infinitely more models.

We know that no Xenos feature in PA2 at all. No models.

PA1, though it had a focus on Eldar was pretty weak. One character and a unit update for 2 factions somewhat pales in comparison to the mountain of SM releases of late. To be honest PA1 supports my point, given the bloody awful effort made in the model and rules released for said book.

Its hilarious that you use Blackstone Fortress as some weird qualifier that Marines haven't had that many releases. You've no doubt seen the release numbers. They're obscene.

 Eldarsif wrote:
Personally I find a lot of the Xenos armies well supported model-wise. More units does not equate to a better army, and more often than not just means there is more crap to use and be disappointed by. In AoS I play FEC and more or less every unit I have a use for and I enjoy that a lot.

My biggest issue with the state of the Xenos is more that too much of the crap has either been removed(like the Drukhari HQ and elites) or is sitting ugly in metal or resin(Drukhari and Craftworld stuff).

I'm sorry, but this sounds like some real entitled gak.

It's like when I see marine players legit complain that they have too many units and some of them inevitably end up going unused. As a harlequin player let me tell you, I would KILL to have a bunch of units to choose from even if some are less stellar than others. Nobody plays pure harlequins to be competitive. They're not. What ticks me off the most is that every harlequin army is identical. Because it has to be. Because you have zero options. It's not unique. You can't personalize it. It's not just awful from a gaming perspective, but it's awful from a collecting and hobby perspective too.

Besides, 8th edition has done a pretty decent job so far making every unit at least somewhat usable.

Karol wrote:
But do they get new stuff? SW got a primaris Lt as their 8th model. DA too. GK got voldus, BA got an Lt and a termintor captin maybe?

That is hardly back breaking number of models to design. Comparing to that GSC got a whole new line. eldar got a unit and banshee queen, dark eldar got the incubi king and incubi.

Technicly besides totaly new armies like SoB or GSC, no one is getting a lot of new models.

am not even sure if GW didn't produce more models for AoS in the last 2 years. Heck they produced like 30+ models for mini games, few people play. How much time was spend on making models for that whole blackstone game, and how many people play it comparing to a normal w40k faction?

If they took the chaos stuff out of it, and made a renegade army out of it, the sells would be much better.

So Marine subfactions got their own models - yet again.

How many specific Craftworlds got new models, Tyranid Swarms, Sisters Orders, Knight Households, Guard Regiments, Kabals, Cults, Dynasties, Septs, etc etc

And thats on top of the verer growing pile of new generic Marine models

Yeah None EXCEPT Marines is getting a pile of models - as always

Yeah, it's basically the same. I mean, we had that HUGE gsc release for xenos! They got

-1 infantry kit
-1 bike kit
-1 small vehicle kit
-8 characters

in 8th, marines* have only gotten

-8 infantry kits
-2 small vehicle kits
-2 large vehicle kits, plus 1 variant kit (executioner)
-16 generic characters
-9 chapter-specific characters
-1 forgeworld superheavy
-Upgrade sprues for all major chapters

That was SO MUCH stuff in that GSC release! It was a HUGE release!

(By the way, all those releases count as releases for like 8 factions when you complain about how much there are, but they don't count as releases for any faction besides Codex SM when I want more stuff for my special snowflake chapter that gets to use all that stuff)

*Mandatory Karol Disclaimer: Not Grey Knights, you get to hang with the ignored factions now apparently because of, I presume, a big silver paint shortage at GW hq?

Whilst it still pales in comparison to the Marine releases, I imagine most Xeno players would be delighted to receive something approaching the GSC release. The problem is that they haven't.

I mean, I'm pretty sure that one GSC release amounted to more models than exist in the entire Harlequin army.

Eldar are still languishing with ancient models, but look GW updated all of 2 of them! Now they can be left to languish for another decade.

Dark Eldar are still missing most of their HQ section. So what did they get when GW finally remembered that they existed? 2 re-sculpts of existing units. And that was it. Hey, remember the 5 special characters you removed from out codex after 5th edition? How about a model for one of those? Or what about the half-dozen generic HQs who've bitten the dust over the years? You know, like the ones with mobility options other than walking. How about a model for any of those? No? Too much work? Guess I'll just sit here and watch as you disgorge an endless parade of new marine models.

I mean, I wouldn't even need new models if it wasn't for your godawful policy of no-model-no-rules. If you'd care to just give me the rules for the aforementioned units than I'd be more than happy to convert them whilst you vomit Marine models from every orifice. But no, that's not an option either, is it? Because you are simultaneously terrified of 3rd-party manufacturers making the models you can't be arsed making, yet at the same time apparently convinced that those models won't sell in the first place.


/rant

the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, it's basically the same. I mean, we had that HUGE gsc release for xenos! They got

-1 infantry kit
-1 bike kit
-1 small vehicle kit
-8 characters

in 8th, marines* have only gotten

-8 infantry kits
-2 small vehicle kits
-2 large vehicle kits, plus 1 variant kit (executioner)
-16 generic characters
-9 chapter-specific characters
-1 forgeworld superheavy
-Upgrade sprues for all major chapters

That was SO MUCH stuff in that GSC release! It was a HUGE release!

(By the way, all those releases count as releases for like 8 factions when you complain about how much there are, but they don't count as releases for any faction besides Codex SM when I want more stuff for my special snowflake chapter that gets to use all that stuff)

*Mandatory Karol Disclaimer: Not Grey Knights, you get to hang with the ignored factions now apparently because of, I presume, a big silver paint shortage at GW hq?

I don't think it's quite right to compare just GSC to all marines considering all the stuff below that isn't marines, but also not always xenos.

I get it though - everyone wants more of their stuff. I would like GW to stop with the Lieutenants and make some unique xenos characters, but I imagine a stand alone run for a model that doesn't get any new rules is a lot riskier when it applies to only 3-5% of the customer base.

Im the only one a little tired of the spam of characters GW is doing? I assume, by an economical point of view they are great for gw and is more easy to find an extremely specific spot, rulewise, for a single character than for a full unit, but I always find variety in my lists come from the units, the characters are just an extra.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, it's basically the same. I mean, we had that HUGE gsc release for xenos! They got

-1 infantry kit
-1 bike kit
-1 small vehicle kit
-8 characters

in 8th, marines* have only gotten

-8 infantry kits
-2 small vehicle kits
-2 large vehicle kits, plus 1 variant kit (executioner)
-16 generic characters
-9 chapter-specific characters
-1 forgeworld superheavy
-Upgrade sprues for all major chapters

That was SO MUCH stuff in that GSC release! It was a HUGE release!

(By the way, all those releases count as releases for like 8 factions when you complain about how much there are, but they don't count as releases for any faction besides Codex SM when I want more stuff for my special snowflake chapter that gets to use all that stuff)

*Mandatory Karol Disclaimer: Not Grey Knights, you get to hang with the ignored factions now apparently because of, I presume, a big silver paint shortage at GW hq?

I don't think it's quite right to compare just GSC to all marines considering all the stuff below that isn't marines, but also not always xenos.

I get it though - everyone wants more of their stuff. I would like GW to stop with the Lieutenants and make some unique xenos characters, but I imagine a stand alone run for a model that doesn't get any new rules is a lot riskier when it applies to only 3-5% of the customer base.

Marines are a subfaction of the Imperium - Genestealers are a subfaction of Tyranids so its a legtimate comparision

Eldar are a full faction so its far to compare Marines to Craftworld or Dark Eldar or the Individual Chapters to the individual Craftworlds, Kabals etc.

Where is this bull gak 3-5% xenos representation completely made up, not in anyway based on facts stat come from?

The xenos factions aren't as small a proportion of the player base as some of you think and the reasons behind their perceived lack of popularity are largely down to GW themselves. GW only makes marines for a quarter then gets surprised when only marines sell that quarter. Who'd have thunk it?

I remember the days when Eldar and Orks vyed with Chaos for second most popular faction. So much so Orks were the big bad of the 2nd end starter set.

 vipoid wrote:

I mean, I wouldn't even need new models if it wasn't for your godawful policy of no-model-no-rules. If you'd care to just give me the rules for the aforementioned units than I'd be more than happy to convert them whilst you vomit Marine models from every orifice. But no, that's not an option either, is it? Because you are simultaneously terrified of 3rd-party manufacturers making the models you can't be arsed making, yet at the same time apparently convinced that those models won't sell in the first place.


/rant

It isn't that simple. Companies need to protect their IP or else they'll lose court cases by setting a precedent. It's gakky, but it is a cold reality of the economic system we live in.

IP is literally GW's whole business.

the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, it's basically the same. I mean, we had that HUGE gsc release for xenos! They got

-1 infantry kit
-1 bike kit
-1 small vehicle kit
-8 characters

in 8th, marines* have only gotten

-8 infantry kits
-2 small vehicle kits
-2 large vehicle kits, plus 1 variant kit (executioner)
-16 generic characters
-9 chapter-specific characters
-1 forgeworld superheavy
-Upgrade sprues for all major chapters

That was SO MUCH stuff in that GSC release! It was a HUGE release!

(By the way, all those releases count as releases for like 8 factions when you complain about how much there are, but they don't count as releases for any faction besides Codex SM when I want more stuff for my special snowflake chapter that gets to use all that stuff)

*Mandatory Karol Disclaimer: Not Grey Knights, you get to hang with the ignored factions now apparently because of, I presume, a big silver paint shortage at GW hq?

Compared what tyranids have gotten. It is pretty substantial.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Where is this bull gak 3-5% xenos representation completely made up, not in anyway based on facts stat come from?

The xenos factions aren't as small a proportion of the player base as some of you think and the reasons behind their perceived lack of popularity are largely down to GW themselves. GW only makes marines for a quarter then gets surprised when only marines sell that quarter. Who'd have thunk it?

I remember the days when Eldar and Orks vyed with Chaos for second most popular faction. So much so Orks were the big bad of the 2nd end starter set.

Not 3-5% all Xenos. 3-5% of that particular army. If GW makes an Ork Lieutenant then all the marines, daemons, guard, knights, eldar, fish heads, and bugs literally do not give a gak about that model.

[/spoiler]

Even when you list them out individually and add in extras like the Lord of Change which were not released in 8th, the amount of stuff that *just loyalist* marines got is basically equivalent to what *everyone not in power armor* got, combined. Between DG and new CSM, spiky marines got nearly as much - 7 infantry kits, 3 small vehicle kits, 3 large vehicle kits, and 9 character kits.

My specific purpose here was to debunk the oft-brought up talking point of that "huge" GSC release that we got which supposedly means there is no favoritism on display, to show exactly how huge that release was compared to what we've seen for loyalist marines throughout 8th. It was half the size of one of the two waves of primaris marines we got.

The fact that people are taking a release that is 2 5-man infantry kits and 2 named character scupts - for two completely different factions - and calling it a "Wave" somehow putting it on par with the latest "wave" of primaris that was 4 times that size just shows the weird hypocrisy of scale in peoples' minds.

the_scotsman wrote:

Even when you list them out individually and add in extras like the Lord of Change which were not released in 8th, the amount of stuff that *just loyalist* marines got is basically equivalent to what *everyone not in power armor* got, combined. Between DG and new CSM, spiky marines got nearly as much - 7 infantry kits, 3 small vehicle kits, 3 large vehicle kits, and 9 character kits.

My specific purpose here was to debunk the oft-brought up talking point of that "huge" GSC release that we got which supposedly means there is no favoritism on display, to show exactly how huge that release was compared to what we've seen for loyalist marines throughout 8th. It was half the size of one of the two waves of primaris marines we got.

The fact that people are taking a release that is 2 5-man infantry kits and 2 named character scupts - for two completely different factions - and calling it a "Wave" somehow putting it on par with the latest "wave" of primaris that was 4 times that size just shows the weird hypocrisy of scale in peoples' minds.

I'm not really disagreeing. I want to see more Eldar kits. I think we just miss the proportionality of it and people get upset at seeing marines, but there are a lot of marine armies in the game. As an example - DG players might not see anything for a year or more (rightfully so) and they care just as much about Primaris as Eldar do.

PA is certainly not a wave.

GSC probably has the most new models since 7th edition compared to any other army except primaris marines. It is by comparison "huge". Ofc marines/CSM get most of the new stuff. They make up over half the players and they literally released a whole new line of models for them.

 Xenomancers wrote:
GSC probably has the most new models since 7th edition compared to any other army except primaris marines. It is by comparison "huge". Ofc marines/CSM get most of the new stuff. They make up over half the players and they literally released a whole new line of models for them.

They are Always releasing new range of models for Marines esepcially when you include the Forgeworld Models that pretty much don;t bother making anything except Marines - so the production capacity of two entire companies is dedicated to one Super Sub Faction - I wonder why people buy more of them.

 Xenomancers wrote:
GSC probably has the most new models since 7th edition compared to any other army except primaris marines. It is by comparison "huge". Ofc marines/CSM get most of the new stuff. They make up over half the players and they literally released a whole new line of models for them.

We've pivoted to The Third Apologetic I see.

Apologetic 1: Marines don't get lots of stuff, what has *insert minor marine subfaction here* gotten?

Apologetic 2: Marines DEFINITELY have not gotten more stuff than other armies, look at those huge GSC/daemons/orks/sisters which haven't happened yet so you can't DISprove that they will get tons of stuff releases!

Apologetic 3: Git Gud defense, but for....buying models?

And next time we will eventually see 2W Primaris Cult Marines.
PA all the way. Nothing for the scum Xenos.
If you play Aeldari smart, its still a viable army.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Where is this bull gak 3-5% xenos representation completely made up, not in anyway based on facts stat come from?

The xenos factions aren't as small a proportion of the player base as some of you think and the reasons behind their perceived lack of popularity are largely down to GW themselves. GW only makes marines for a quarter then gets surprised when only marines sell that quarter. Who'd have thunk it?

I remember the days when Eldar and Orks vyed with Chaos for second most popular faction. So much so Orks were the big bad of the 2nd end starter set.

Not 3-5% all Xenos. 3-5% of that particular army. If GW makes an Ork Lieutenant then all the marines, daemons, guard, knights, eldar, fish heads, and bugs literally do not give a gak about that model.

Yea, and where's that figure from?

Made up right?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Where is this bull gak 3-5% xenos representation completely made up, not in anyway based on facts stat come from?

The xenos factions aren't as small a proportion of the player base as some of you think and the reasons behind their perceived lack of popularity are largely down to GW themselves. GW only makes marines for a quarter then gets surprised when only marines sell that quarter. Who'd have thunk it?

I remember the days when Eldar and Orks vyed with Chaos for second most popular faction. So much so Orks were the big bad of the 2nd end starter set.

Not 3-5% all Xenos. 3-5% of that particular army. If GW makes an Ork Lieutenant then all the marines, daemons, guard, knights, eldar, fish heads, and bugs literally do not give a gak about that model.

Yea, and where's that figure from?

Made up right?

Based on current tournament attendance

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Where is this bull gak 3-5% xenos representation completely made up, not in anyway based on facts stat come from?

The xenos factions aren't as small a proportion of the player base as some of you think and the reasons behind their perceived lack of popularity are largely down to GW themselves. GW only makes marines for a quarter then gets surprised when only marines sell that quarter. Who'd have thunk it?

I remember the days when Eldar and Orks vyed with Chaos for second most popular faction. So much so Orks were the big bad of the 2nd end starter set.

Not 3-5% all Xenos. 3-5% of that particular army. If GW makes an Ork Lieutenant then all the marines, daemons, guard, knights, eldar, fish heads, and bugs literally do not give a gak about that model.

Yea, and where's that figure from?

Made up right?

Sure, it would be a guess. Disregarding add-on armies like Ynnari or SOS there are 32 factions. An ork model would appeal to 1 out of 32 or 3%. Consider then that it seems that marines are the most popular army and you're going to skew that number a bit more. A single stupid primaris lieutenant appeals to 11 of them.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
GSC probably has the most new models since 7th edition compared to any other army except primaris marines. It is by comparison "huge". Ofc marines/CSM get most of the new stuff. They make up over half the players and they literally released a whole new line of models for them.

We've pivoted to The Third Apologetic I see.

Apologetic 1: Marines don't get lots of stuff, what has *insert minor marine subfaction here* gotten?

Apologetic 2: Marines DEFINITELY have not gotten more stuff than other armies, look at those huge GSC/daemons/orks/sisters which haven't happened yet so you can't DISprove that they will get tons of stuff releases!

Apologetic 3: Git Gud defense, but for....buying models?

The point I am making is they just released a new line of their most popular army. OFC they are getting the most releases atm. Who knows in the future.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Sure, it would be a guess.

So you don't need me to tell you that it is also meaningless?

 Xenomancers wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
GSC probably has the most new models since 7th edition compared to any other army except primaris marines. It is by comparison "huge". Ofc marines/CSM get most of the new stuff. They make up over half the players and they literally released a whole new line of models for them.

We've pivoted to The Third Apologetic I see.

Apologetic 1: Marines don't get lots of stuff, what has *insert minor marine subfaction here* gotten?

Apologetic 2: Marines DEFINITELY have not gotten more stuff than other armies, look at those huge GSC/daemons/orks/sisters which haven't happened yet so you can't DISprove that they will get tons of stuff releases!

Apologetic 3: Git Gud defense, but for....buying models?

The point I am making is they just released a new line of their most popular army. OFC they are getting the most releases atm. Who knows in the future.

Why is it the most popular?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Sure, it would be a guess.

So you don't need me to tell you that it is also meaningless?

Only if you think it's possible for individual Xenos to be more popular than a standard deviation would assume. The point still stands regardless how popular you might think certain armies are - they're still going to have less broad appeal than marines, which is why we get talentless lieutenants.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Sure, it would be a guess.

So you don't need me to tell you that it is also meaningless?

Only if you think it's possible for individual Xenos to be more popular than a standard deviation would assume. The point still stands regardless how popular you might think certain armies are - they're still going to have less broad appeal than marines, which is why we get talentless lieutenants.

True enough, the counter-point, of course, is that it's actually bad for GW's profit margins and 40k as a whole because of all the potential Xenos customers lost due to the lack of support for such factions.

I've not seen as many Eldar players around here since the first PA release. I wonder if GW didn't lose hobbyists.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
GSC probably has the most new models since 7th edition compared to any other army except primaris marines. It is by comparison "huge". Ofc marines/CSM get most of the new stuff. They make up over half the players and they literally released a whole new line of models for them.

We've pivoted to The Third Apologetic I see.

Apologetic 1: Marines don't get lots of stuff, what has *insert minor marine subfaction here* gotten?

Apologetic 2: Marines DEFINITELY have not gotten more stuff than other armies, look at those huge GSC/daemons/orks/sisters which haven't happened yet so you can't DISprove that they will get tons of stuff releases!

Apologetic 3: Git Gud defense, but for....buying models?

The point I am making is they just released a new line of their most popular army. OFC they are getting the most releases atm. Who knows in the future.

Why is it the most popular?

It's the most popular because GW has data on what sells and new marine releases sell them most so they keep making more marine crap.