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 JNAProductions wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
GSC probably has the most new models since 7th edition compared to any other army except primaris marines. It is by comparison "huge". Ofc marines/CSM get most of the new stuff. They make up over half the players and they literally released a whole new line of models for them.

We've pivoted to The Third Apologetic I see.

Apologetic 1: Marines don't get lots of stuff, what has *insert minor marine subfaction here* gotten?

Apologetic 2: Marines DEFINITELY have not gotten more stuff than other armies, look at those huge GSC/daemons/orks/sisters which haven't happened yet so you can't DISprove that they will get tons of stuff releases!

Apologetic 3: Git Gud defense, but for....buying models?

The point I am making is they just released a new line of their most popular army. OFC they are getting the most releases atm. Who knows in the future.

Why is it the most popular?

Let me guess you are going to do the "Marines are only more popular because marketing" routine.

An argument built on a a very bad assumption:. GW is driving consumer preferences. You know rather than just reacting to them by doubling down on what already sells.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
GSC probably has the most new models since 7th edition compared to any other army except primaris marines. It is by comparison "huge". Ofc marines/CSM get most of the new stuff. They make up over half the players and they literally released a whole new line of models for them.

We've pivoted to The Third Apologetic I see.

Apologetic 1: Marines don't get lots of stuff, what has *insert minor marine subfaction here* gotten?

Apologetic 2: Marines DEFINITELY have not gotten more stuff than other armies, look at those huge GSC/daemons/orks/sisters which haven't happened yet so you can't DISprove that they will get tons of stuff releases!

Apologetic 3: Git Gud defense, but for....buying models?

The point I am making is they just released a new line of their most popular army. OFC they are getting the most releases atm. Who knows in the future.

Why is it the most popular?

It's the most popular because GW has data on what sells and new marine releases sell them most so they keep making more marine crap.

I think the point JNA was trying to make, obviously, is that Marines sell because Marines get all the support and all the resource and all the new kits and feature in all the starter sets and have the best rules now and have the most cross-compatible models and have always been pushed by GW etc etc etc

Eh. I don't think players like having other players tell them about why they shouldn't have any more releases for not being as popular as Space Marines.

From and Sales and Marketing perspective I think GW have made a classic mistake that may gain them profits at the expense of longer term market share.

For example, the washing brands, Persil, Ariel and Daz are owned by one company. With the right marketing push its possible to drastically increase the sales of say Persil, but this comes at the expense of Daz and Ariel. In the short term this can even increase profits but what happens is that the Ariel and Daz customers who did not switch to Persil change to other non-owned brands, thus damaging market share.

Shareholders however only know that they want more. GW could have a bumper Christmas, beat expected earnings and create an excellent opportunity for senior management to sell stock options. This is at least the cycle I've seen many times and often document in the financial press.

What follows is simply the end of the current business cycle as share-holders leave once they realize the company can't squeeze out anymore growth. A similar thing has already happened to the Computer game publishers. The cycle then starts again, hopefully 9th edition will be a good re-boot.

 Gareth_Evans wrote:
From and Sales and Marketing perspective I think GW have made a classic mistake that may gain them profits at the expense of longer term market share.

For example, the washing brands, Persil, Ariel and Daz are owned by one company. With the right marketing push its possible to drastically increase the sales of say Persil, but this comes at the expense of Daz and Ariel. In the short term this can even increase profits but what happens is that the Ariel and Daz customers who did not switch to Persil change to other non-owned brands, thus damaging market share.

Shareholders however only know that they want more. GW could have a bumper Christmas, beat expected earnings and create an excellent opportunity for senior management to sell stock options. This is at least the cycle I've seen many times and often document in the financial press.

What follows is simply the end of the current business cycle as share-holders leave once they realize the company can't squeeze out anymore growth. A similar thing has already happened to the Computer game publishers. The cycle then starts again, hopefully 9th edition will be a good re-boot.

GW operates on dividends, so they're incentive is to hold shares as long as they don't drop dramatically.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

I mean, I wouldn't even need new models if it wasn't for your godawful policy of no-model-no-rules. If you'd care to just give me the rules for the aforementioned units than I'd be more than happy to convert them whilst you vomit Marine models from every orifice. But no, that's not an option either, is it? Because you are simultaneously terrified of 3rd-party manufacturers making the models you can't be arsed making, yet at the same time apparently convinced that those models won't sell in the first place.


/rant

It isn't that simple. Companies need to protect their IP or else they'll lose court cases by setting a precedent. It's gakky, but it is a cold reality of the economic system we live in.

IP is literally GW's whole business.

So why is it fine for them to mix two GK kits to create a Grand Master Dreadknight, but not fine for them to mix two DE kits to create, say, a winged Archon?

Why is it fine for Conscripts, Infantry, Veterans, Heavy Weapon Teams, Special Weapon Teams etc. to all use the same kit, yet suddenly it becomes an issue when it comes to Kabalites and Trueborn sharing a kit?

Because this is part of my problem - even discounting that GW makes far more models for some factions than for others, the no-model-no-rules "rule" is still not enforced remotely equally.

Current tournament attendance is a terrible metric for overall play of an army. A person with an army that is bad in the meta probably isn't going to tournaments, or at the very least is using one of their other, stronger armies for tournaments.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
GSC probably has the most new models since 7th edition compared to any other army except primaris marines. It is by comparison "huge". Ofc marines/CSM get most of the new stuff. They make up over half the players and they literally released a whole new line of models for them.

We've pivoted to The Third Apologetic I see.

Apologetic 1: Marines don't get lots of stuff, what has *insert minor marine subfaction here* gotten?

Apologetic 2: Marines DEFINITELY have not gotten more stuff than other armies, look at those huge GSC/daemons/orks/sisters which haven't happened yet so you can't DISprove that they will get tons of stuff releases!

Apologetic 3: Git Gud defense, but for....buying models?

The point I am making is they just released a new line of their most popular army. OFC they are getting the most releases atm. Who knows in the future.

Why is it the most popular?

It's the most popular because GW has data on what sells and new marine releases sell them most so they keep making more marine crap.

I think the point JNA was trying to make, obviously, is that Marines sell because Marines get all the support and all the resource and all the new kits and feature in all the starter sets and have the best rules now and have the most cross-compatible models and have always been pushed by GW etc etc etc

I think if we had access to the data - it would be pretty obvious why they make more marine kits than any other army. We don't have access to that data so you could easily make the point that marines are most popular because they make the most marine kits...BUT WHY? How would that make any sense for GW to do that?

 Xenomancers wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
GSC probably has the most new models since 7th edition compared to any other army except primaris marines. It is by comparison "huge". Ofc marines/CSM get most of the new stuff. They make up over half the players and they literally released a whole new line of models for them.

We've pivoted to The Third Apologetic I see.

Apologetic 1: Marines don't get lots of stuff, what has *insert minor marine subfaction here* gotten?

Apologetic 2: Marines DEFINITELY have not gotten more stuff than other armies, look at those huge GSC/daemons/orks/sisters which haven't happened yet so you can't DISprove that they will get tons of stuff releases!

Apologetic 3: Git Gud defense, but for....buying models?

The point I am making is they just released a new line of their most popular army. OFC they are getting the most releases atm. Who knows in the future.

Why is it the most popular?

It's the most popular because GW has data on what sells and new marine releases sell them most so they keep making more marine crap.

I think the point JNA was trying to make, obviously, is that Marines sell because Marines get all the support and all the resource and all the new kits and feature in all the starter sets and have the best rules now and have the most cross-compatible models and have always been pushed by GW etc etc etc

I think if we had access to the data - it would be pretty obvious why they make more marine kits than any other army. We don't have access to that data so you could easily make the point that marines are most popular because they make the most marine kits...BUT WHY? How would that make any sense for GW to do that?

Because it's safe. That's basic capitalism. Bank on an original idea, and you might get A New Hope - but you might also get Waterworld. Bank on a very, very safe, minor variant on something you know your consumers are already consuming, and you'll be safe. But every movie ever made from now on with any budget might be a superhero movie.

I don't doubt at some point in the misty past, all armies were given relatively the same support and marines were the most popular, thus beginning the cycle of overrepresentation. I also don't doubt that that time was like...1990.

But since then, their MASSIVE, MASSIVE overrepresentation in the lore, model releases, rules releases, starter boxes, and faction count has influenced their popularity.

It's not exactly scientific but according to a poll taken on dakkadakka a few years back, which means based on this community, loyalist Space Marines of all types made up something like 35% of the player base.

let's assume there's some skew and guess that Marines make up 30% (TBH I suspect there where less Marine players here on average, given how vocal the "we hate marines" community here is I suspect they drive off marine fans) So, you have 30% of your player base, spread across, 4 codices, (and we can argue as to what the blood angels, dark angels etc SHOULD be, but that's not fething RELEVANT, as far as GW is concerned they are seperate and distinct armies and thats the end of that) so, a full third of your player base plays one of 4 armies, and you've got a series of releases that can be used ACROSS all those armies, why wouldn't you pump out releases that can be used all by them, in a fair number of things.

to those who think BA/DA/SW shouldn't exist as seperate codices etc, I've got news for you. they do.

Chicken/egg. Does GW release more Space Marines because more people play Space Marines, or do more people play Space Marines because they get more support than other armies?

I think it's completely reasonable to assume that Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines are the 1st and 2nd most popular 40k factions. The margin doesn't matter too much in this discussion. Games Workshop are also giving more attention and kits to Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines more than anyone else. I think this is also a fair assumption. It makes sense for the most popular and best-selling factions to get additional kits and be 1st priority when it comes to new releases. But be honest with yourself when I ask, do you all seriously believe that other factions will get a similar treatment that Space Marines got with their supplements and new codex? I suspect we will see Chaos legions get some sort of supplements, and if we are being optimistic, Eldar could too. But, say, Ad Mech or Orks? I doubt it. My point isn't regarding power levels, or how everyone doesn't get the same amount of releases. Space Marines and Chaos will sell more kits and I get that. However the disparity, and the years of waiting for anything of significance is something many players praising Games Workshop for moving away from. Yet I see a lot of these same people on here actively hand-waving other people's concerns about being excluded from content. It's kind of shocking how certain members of the community, who speak to the encouraging positivity of it, would engage in something as harmful as wanting others not to get anything new. Plenty of players are pretty jealous of how much some factions get each year, and there's a good reason for that. Everyone should want a better representation in the releases that Games Workshop puts out. Not just those that suffer the most throughout it. If Games Workshop really are doing as financially well as their sales figures suggest, then they can certainly afford something as simple as this.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Chicken/egg. Does GW release more Space Marines because more people play Space Marines, or do more people play Space Marines because they get more support than other armies?

keep in mind that, and I'm not talking the minis and army rules right now, space marines and chaos marines are proably the most developed factions. the amount of fluff and lore out there for them dwarves anyone else.If you want a novel about say... AdMech you have a pretty thin selection, Imperial Guard likewise (by comparison, I know there are a lot of guard books) Marines, well there's 60 or so books currently in Horus heresy alone.

So people whose intreast in 40k is the setting are more likely drawn to space marines. especially as space Marines are one of the more unique aspects of 40k.

 vipoid wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

I mean, I wouldn't even need new models if it wasn't for your godawful policy of no-model-no-rules. If you'd care to just give me the rules for the aforementioned units than I'd be more than happy to convert them whilst you vomit Marine models from every orifice. But no, that's not an option either, is it? Because you are simultaneously terrified of 3rd-party manufacturers making the models you can't be arsed making, yet at the same time apparently convinced that those models won't sell in the first place.


/rant

It isn't that simple. Companies need to protect their IP or else they'll lose court cases by setting a precedent. It's gakky, but it is a cold reality of the economic system we live in.

IP is literally GW's whole business.

So why is it fine for them to mix two GK kits to create a Grand Master Dreadknight, but not fine for them to mix two DE kits to create, say, a winged Archon?

Why is it fine for Conscripts, Infantry, Veterans, Heavy Weapon Teams, Special Weapon Teams etc. to all use the same kit, yet suddenly it becomes an issue when it comes to Kabalites and Trueborn sharing a kit?

Because this is part of my problem - even discounting that GW makes far more models for some factions than for others, the no-model-no-rules "rule" is still not enforced remotely equally.

GW is inconsistent that's why.

 vipoid wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

I mean, I wouldn't even need new models if it wasn't for your godawful policy of no-model-no-rules. If you'd care to just give me the rules for the aforementioned units than I'd be more than happy to convert them whilst you vomit Marine models from every orifice. But no, that's not an option either, is it? Because you are simultaneously terrified of 3rd-party manufacturers making the models you can't be arsed making, yet at the same time apparently convinced that those models won't sell in the first place.


/rant

It isn't that simple. Companies need to protect their IP or else they'll lose court cases by setting a precedent. It's gakky, but it is a cold reality of the economic system we live in.

IP is literally GW's whole business.

So why is it fine for them to mix two GK kits to create a Grand Master Dreadknight, but not fine for them to mix two DE kits to create, say, a winged Archon?

Why is it fine for Conscripts, Infantry, Veterans, Heavy Weapon Teams, Special Weapon Teams etc. to all use the same kit, yet suddenly it becomes an issue when it comes to Kabalites and Trueborn sharing a kit?

Because this is part of my problem - even discounting that GW makes far more models for some factions than for others, the no-model-no-rules "rule" is still not enforced remotely equally.

It's hard for third parties to replicate all the pieces to make a GMDK and/or its not financially worthwhile. GW was also pot committed on certain units. A winged Archon gets into muddier territory that other companies would gladly jump on. It's down to opportunity cost.

 Gareth_Evans wrote:
From and Sales and Marketing perspective I think GW have made a classic mistake that may gain them profits at the expense of longer term market share.

For example, the washing brands, Persil, Ariel and Daz are owned by one company. With the right marketing push its possible to drastically increase the sales of say Persil, but this comes at the expense of Daz and Ariel. In the short term this can even increase profits but what happens is that the Ariel and Daz customers who did not switch to Persil change to other non-owned brands, thus damaging market share.

Shareholders however only know that they want more. GW could have a bumper Christmas, beat expected earnings and create an excellent opportunity for senior management to sell stock options. This is at least the cycle I've seen many times and often document in the financial press.

What follows is simply the end of the current business cycle as share-holders leave once they realize the company can't squeeze out anymore growth. A similar thing has already happened to the Computer game publishers. The cycle then starts again, hopefully 9th edition will be a good re-boot.

I understand your point but GW is in a very different industry than those companies. GW is selling a hobby and entertainment products ( black library novels for instance) and in that industry there is a lot of experimentation to find what works and doubling down on what does. Consumer preferences can be hard to predict with entertainment. I remember an interview with George Lucas awhile back where he describes the movie industry like gambling at a casino. In order to beat the odds a lot of companies lean hard on the brands that have "proven" themselves.

Yeah I don't buy the whole "That's capitalism, buddy! Get used to it!" argument.

Nobody plays sisters. Not a soul. And yet here we are with a huge new release.

Yes, I know marines and chaos marines are very popular and I'm fine with them getting more releases as such, but as others have said, the disparity is insane. And when GW does decide to randomly release a bunch of xenos stuff in spurts (GSC or orks that one October), it doesn't seem to be driven by profit. If it was, they would be more marine releases. Am I wrong?

And boy oh boy I remember being excited about starting harlequins with an upcoming codex. Looking through the index it was like "Man, these are really cool but the variety is suuuper slim. I can't wait for the codex for more options! It's gonna be great! They have to give us more toys to play with. They just have to! There's absolutely no way there won't be anything new so it's just a matter of fantasizing about which new things " Even my local Warhammer store guy said he was fully expecting GW to allow harlies to use some other eldar vehicles.

And then the codex comes... and it's nothing... You try to be positive. Heyyy… we got like.. masque forms.. and some relics and stratagems. That's pretty cool, right?...

And then kill team commanders comes out and ooh some armies are even getting new models like the new tech priest! I wonder if they'll give harlequins anything... Nope.

And kill team elites? Every faction has new units to use? Except Harlequins. Get fethed.

Ooh vigilus is giving out so many new formations and units! I wonder what Harlequins will get? Oh. Nothing. Neat.

Just end me, fam. Why did I pick this army lol

BrianDavion wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Chicken/egg. Does GW release more Space Marines because more people play Space Marines, or do more people play Space Marines because they get more support than other armies?

keep in mind that, and I'm not talking the minis and army rules right now, space marines and chaos marines are proably the most developed factions. the amount of fluff and lore out there for them dwarves anyone else.If you want a novel about say... AdMech you have a pretty thin selection, Imperial Guard likewise (by comparison, I know there are a lot of guard books) Marines, well there's 60 or so books currently in Horus heresy alone.

So people whose intreast in 40k is the setting are more likely drawn to space marines. especially as space Marines are one of the more unique aspects of 40k.

So you are agreeing that not only are Marines massively pushed in the models and army rules but also in all elements of the Lore - yeah can;t think why they are the most popular......

 Mr Morden wrote:
So you are agreeing that not only are Marines massively pushed in the models and army rules but also in all elements of the Lore - yeah can;t think why they are the most popular......

You need to learn to be happy with your role in the capitalist GW narrative. Everyone's been explaining why your non-marine faction will eternally be second class. You're poor, and that's bad, so you have to play the second tier game. Everyone above has been terribly patient in explaining this, why can't you be happy? /s

ThePorcupine wrote:


Nobody plays sisters. Not a soul. And yet here we are with a huge new release.

1) Patently false.
2) They had a survey which helped gauge interest. Should the re-release of Sisters flop and the players don't put the money where their mouths are we'll see fewer such releases in the future.

Yes, I know marines and chaos marines are very popular and I'm fine with them getting more releases as such, but as others have said, the disparity is insane. And when GW does decide to randomly release a bunch of xenos stuff in spurts (GSC or orks that one October), it doesn't seem to be driven by profit. If it was, they would be more marine releases. Am I wrong?

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

And then kill team commanders comes out and ooh some armies are even getting new models like the new tech priest! I wonder if they'll give harlequins anything... Nope.

Tech priest was an existing unit...

And kill team elites? Every faction has new units to use? Except Harlequins. Get fethed.

Because they all got existing units and Harlies have few...

Ooh vigilus is giving out so many new formations and units! I wonder what Harlequins will get? Oh. Nothing. Neat.

They weren't on Vigilus just like the rest of the Eldar...

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
So you are agreeing that not only are Marines massively pushed in the models and army rules but also in all elements of the Lore - yeah can;t think why they are the most popular......

You need to learn to be happy with your role in the capitalist GW narrative. Everyone's been explaining why your non-marine faction will eternally be second class. You're poor, and that's bad, so you have to play the second tier game. Everyone above has been terribly patient in explaining this, why can't you be happy? /s

Actually I have plenty of Marine armies but it is sad that the rest of my armies are in such a bad state.

They weren't on Vigilus just like the rest of the Eldar...

The Eldar were on Viglius - you have read the lore right?

Why exactly did the Sistes get feth all when they even highlighted them in the lore - oh yeah becuase they had to cram the books with new rules for Marines.....

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
So you are agreeing that not only are Marines massively pushed in the models and army rules but also in all elements of the Lore - yeah can;t think why they are the most popular......

You need to learn to be happy with your role in the capitalist GW narrative. Everyone's been explaining why your non-marine faction will eternally be second class. You're poor, and that's bad, so you have to play the second tier game. Everyone above has been terribly patient in explaining this, why can't you be happy? /s

what does his finanical status have to do with it? GW is chasing the dollar.

*sighs* let's use another marketing comparison.

Cola Cola corp makes a number of soft drinks. including Coke, Diet Coke, and Barq's Root Beer. For the record, my prefered soft drink is root beer. A drink that is less popular then Coke. something I'll get back to in a second BTW.

there are a grand total of 2 types of Barq's Root Beer produced, regular and diet. (there are also some cream soda's produced under that brand)

Meanwhile there are TWELVE varities of Coke currently for sale, and over twelve types of diet coke.

Meanwhile, back in 2000 when I was in Europe, I cou;dn't get root beer of ANY TYPE when I went to a resturant, maybe it's changed in the past 19 years, but my favorite soft drink was practially unavalabe in the UK and France. (this BTW is because root beer never caught on in Europe due to no prohibition as I understand it)

So yes, the most popular flag ship product of a company is more popualr then their niche products.. that's a fact of life

BrianDavion wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Chicken/egg. Does GW release more Space Marines because more people play Space Marines, or do more people play Space Marines because they get more support than other armies?

keep in mind that, and I'm not talking the minis and army rules right now, space marines and chaos marines are proably the most developed factions. the amount of fluff and lore out there for them dwarves anyone else.If you want a novel about say... AdMech you have a pretty thin selection, Imperial Guard likewise (by comparison, I know there are a lot of guard books) Marines, well there's 60 or so books currently in Horus heresy alone.

So people whose intreast in 40k is the setting are more likely drawn to space marines. especially as space Marines are one of the more unique aspects of 40k.

Marines are unique? Are you cereal?

Super soldiers in big armour with big weapons? Literally in every bloody syfy setting ever? Halo Spartans, Starcraft marines all get confused with our Spess Muhreens.

Show me any other syfy setting with an Ork equivalent. I dare yas.

BrianDavion wrote:
So yes, the most popular flag ship product of a company is more popualr then their niche products.. that's a fact of life

Pretty sure that's what I said, and told him to be happy about it also. I think my messaging was on point and inline with company objectives. The effect that will have over the long term on non-balance sheet issues like game balance and playability are secondary concerns at best. Once we've all accepted that, how can the game possibly fail to be more fun?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Chicken/egg. Does GW release more Space Marines because more people play Space Marines, or do more people play Space Marines because they get more support than other armies?

keep in mind that, and I'm not talking the minis and army rules right now, space marines and chaos marines are proably the most developed factions. the amount of fluff and lore out there for them dwarves anyone else.If you want a novel about say... AdMech you have a pretty thin selection, Imperial Guard likewise (by comparison, I know there are a lot of guard books) Marines, well there's 60 or so books currently in Horus heresy alone.

So people whose intreast in 40k is the setting are more likely drawn to space marines. especially as space Marines are one of the more unique aspects of 40k.

Marines are unique? Are you cereal?

Super soldiers in big armour with big weapons? Literally in every bloody syfy setting ever? Halo Spartans, Starcraft marines all get confused with our Spess Muhreens.

Show me any other syfy setting with an Ork equivalent. I dare yas.

No no - some people here just want 40k to be like 30k - Marines vs Marines - the rest is just minor background - don't spoil their illusions....they are likely quite fragile.

 Mr Morden wrote:
No no - some people here just want 40k to be like 30k - Marines vs Marines - the rest is just minor background - don't spoil their illusions....they are likely quite fragile.

This is accurate. I mean, as Chaos, I should probably be happy, unlike all the other factions, we at least got a reach around before all this gak came down.

BrianDavion wrote:
what does his finanical status have to do with it? GW is chasing the dollar.

*sighs* let's use another marketing comparison.

Cola Cola corp makes a number of soft drinks. including Coke, Diet Coke, and Barq's Root Beer. For the record, my prefered soft drink is root beer. A drink that is less popular then Coke. something I'll get back to in a second BTW.

there are a grand total of 2 types of Barq's Root Beer produced, regular and diet. (there are also some cream soda's produced under that brand)

Meanwhile there are TWELVE varities of Coke currently for sale, and over twelve types of diet coke.

Meanwhile, back in 2000 when I was in Europe, I cou;dn't get root beer of ANY TYPE when I went to a resturant, maybe it's changed in the past 19 years, but my favorite soft drink was practially unavalabe in the UK and France. (this BTW is because root beer never caught on in Europe due to no prohibition as I understand it)

So yes, the most popular flag ship product of a company is more popualr then their niche products.. that's a fact of life

Ugh, I've seen this rubbish argument before, it's dumb and does not translate in anyway to the sales of toy soldiers. For a start you realise that Barq's root beer doesn't exist outside of the US (well certainly not in the UK anyway).

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Chicken/egg. Does GW release more Space Marines because more people play Space Marines, or do more people play Space Marines because they get more support than other armies?

keep in mind that, and I'm not talking the minis and army rules right now, space marines and chaos marines are proably the most developed factions. the amount of fluff and lore out there for them dwarves anyone else.If you want a novel about say... AdMech you have a pretty thin selection, Imperial Guard likewise (by comparison, I know there are a lot of guard books) Marines, well there's 60 or so books currently in Horus heresy alone.

So people whose intreast in 40k is the setting are more likely drawn to space marines. especially as space Marines are one of the more unique aspects of 40k.

Marines are unique? Are you cereal?

Super soldiers in big armour with big weapons? Literally in every bloody syfy setting ever? Halo Spartans, Starcraft marines all get confused with our Spess Muhreens.

Show me any other syfy setting with an Ork equivalent. I dare yas.

HALO Spartans and starcraft marines came after the fact, and where inspired by 40k space marines. as for orks in 40k, they;'re just orks with a dash of mad max.

 vaklor4 wrote:
Current tournament attendance is a terrible metric for overall play of an army. A person with an army that is bad in the meta probably isn't going to tournaments, or at the very least is using one of their other, stronger armies for tournaments.

Also depends on if you are looking at ITC or something else, ITC meta is so completely different you cant consider it the same game. I know a large amount that dont play tournaments b.c they all are ITC around here and most of the ITC players wont play GW missions. The few players that do play GW missions and don't modify their lists never wins any games b.c killing means nothing most the time (its funny b.c the marine players will castle up and shoot, then i'll fly 2 venoms with 5 kabals in each to 2 different objectives, kill nothing can score 3points while they got only first blood).

The 40k players are so splint into meta pockets its not even funny. Dakka for some reasont hinks ITC is all the is played when in reality it is very far from the truth.

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Chicken/egg. Does GW release more Space Marines because more people play Space Marines, or do more people play Space Marines because they get more support than other armies?

keep in mind that, and I'm not talking the minis and army rules right now, space marines and chaos marines are proably the most developed factions. the amount of fluff and lore out there for them dwarves anyone else.If you want a novel about say... AdMech you have a pretty thin selection, Imperial Guard likewise (by comparison, I know there are a lot of guard books) Marines, well there's 60 or so books currently in Horus heresy alone.

So people whose intreast in 40k is the setting are more likely drawn to space marines. especially as space Marines are one of the more unique aspects of 40k.

Marines are unique? Are you cereal?

Super soldiers in big armour with big weapons? Literally in every bloody syfy setting ever? Halo Spartans, Starcraft marines all get confused with our Spess Muhreens.

Show me any other syfy setting with an Ork equivalent. I dare yas.

HALO Spartans and starcraft marines came after the fact, and where inspired by 40k space marines. as for orks in 40k, they;'re just orks with a dash of mad max.

It doesn't matter if they came after the fact. People, that is to say the general public, can't tell the difference between Spartans, SC Marines and 40k Marines. They are generic as generic can be.

"Just Orks with a dash of mad max"? Lol you're not gonna get a bite that easy and you didn't answer the question. Give me a syfy setting with an equivalent race to Orks. I've given you 2 SM equivalents, there are many others.