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Danny76 wrote: Awesome, exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for!
My other armies I don’t think I could translate into AoS (Empire too much has gone or notviable, VC is mostly basing to be fair), so it is great to know that these could find a new use here.
Everything is mostly unpainted, so I can also work on the relevant models also which is handy.
I shall have to have a look through the book and see what I think then!
Thanks for the info Stux
No problem!
When checking out the book, have a look at the Gutbuster Battalions too. You have the models to make most of them, so that opens up some other list building avenues.
Mawtribes is a pretty well-made battletome. Every unit is useful (grot scraplauncher is a bit of a dud in the larger context but even so it isn't -bad-) and the battalions aren't so good that you are obligated to bring them but not so bad that you are overtly punished for using them (mostly). I would say one of the big advantages of gutbuster battalions is deployment; they consolidate a good number of units into one drop to help secure second turn.
I think there are some good there. Adding 1 to wound rolls, + 3 to movement is very nice. The mortal wound and heql 1d3 are OK. I suppose yetee regenration is good as well if you are into yhetee club.
A hungry Frostlord in boulderhead already moves 15". Give him +3 to move and you are on 18". That seems like a good chance to get a first turn charge. Add inn the black clatterhorn and + 1 to wound and you got a damage machine.
If you really wanne go crazy ad the gryph feather and now you are 19 movement and flying. But no etherial amulet, so probably not worth it.
It would not nessaseraly have to be huskards. You just need one huskar per prayer you wanne go off, and 4 thundertusks total. Thundertusks can be battleline.
Considering how much better stonehorns are then thundertusks it is probably a pipedream, but those shooting attacks could work in the right list.
Niiai wrote: It would not nessaseraly have to be huskards. You just need one huskar per prayer you wanne go off, and 4 thundertusks total. Thundertusks can be battleline.
Considering how much better stonehorns are then thundertusks it is probably a pipedream, but those shooting attacks could work in the right list.
What do people tink about the Oger Tyrant? He seems imcredebly exspensive for 160 point. He is less good then 2 ironguts in combat and they would cost 88 points.
Niiai wrote: What do people tink about the Oger Tyrant? He seems imcredebly exspensive for 160 point. He is less good then 2 ironguts in combat and they would cost 88 points.
He makes your Ironguts Battleline. That alone is fantastic.
He also makes Leadbelchers (4+ models) Battleline, has a useful command ability, and has access to useful unique relics (Gruesome Trophy Rack especially).
Running Undetguts, I find him absolutely mandatory. If you're planning to run 3 units of Gluttons and dont particularly want the Trophy Rack, sure skip him.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/19 19:27:25
So, the way the charge rules are written you have to finish a charge move half an inch from one of the units you are charging.
I was thinking in an underguts list you can wrap a Huskard on Thundertusk with Alvagr Ancient in 6 leadbelchers. Just keep walking up and blast away. If the opponent wants to charge in they need to do some fancy dancing or they will get clubbered by the leadbelchers. The leadbelchers are a descent enough threat and the huskard on thundertusk seems nice as long as he is not in close combat.
As the leadbelchers base is under 2" the opponent would need to be 3" close to the Alvagr Ancient to slow them down.
The rest of the list would have to feature a lot of shooting to keep thinning the opponent into fight sieze bits. Probably with gnoblar scraplaunchers vs hordes (along the gnoblar blastkeg artefact and the Frost-wreathed ice) and the throphy rack ironblaster trick vs monsters. Have 18 range leadbelchers and blast away thinning up the opponent.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/19 22:04:49
Niiai wrote: The first part you say makes little sence. Shurly you will want to move them within range or they have no damag output?
Ok, sometimes you need to move them yes. But you might surprised how little you need to do it. Will obviously depend on matchup and mission. My last game, by my first shooting phase they had plenty of decent targets within 18" without moving.
Well then you do not move. The Huskar might not have good targets always but still, sounds nice in my mind. Has a 50% chance of getting the
Leadbelchers seems descent enough in combat. 2, 3+, 3+ rend 1, 2 damage attacks. Then you need to suffer attacks from them if you want to charge them. If you do not charge them the leadbelchers stand stil and shoot 6d6 shooting attacks. Sounds nice. Also, the huskard who is a bit trash in combat is safe.
I actually think the undertribe leadbelcher is a very fine good all around unit for 40 points. Of course you need a critical mass of shooting before it gets some legs.
The problem with belchers usually is that you have a lot of bad choises. To not get wiped out in combat you move in for the charge. And in doing so you go from d6 to d3 shots. But with the Alvagr Ancient you can have your cake and eat it too.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/19 22:37:50
I was talking about how the Alvagr Ancient would make who ever charges the leadbelchers first take one round of combat from the leadbelchers before they get to fight.
Niiai wrote: What do people tink about the Oger Tyrant? He seems imcredebly exspensive for 160 point. He is less good then 2 ironguts in combat and they would cost 88 points.
Well...
Melee aginst a 5+ save...
2 Ironguts - 7.26 dmg average
Tyant - 6.3 dmg average (assuming enemy is not a hero, monster, or more than three models, all of which increase his average damage) BUT the tyrant also has his shooting* attack with an average of 1.1 against a 5+ save which brings his total to 7.4. The tyrant's damage also maintains a better average against enemies with better saves. Altogether it is fair to say a tyrant does more damage than two ironguts.
However, a more fair comparison is against a unit of three ironguts with a champion for a total of 10 attacks and an average (against a 5+) of 11.1---50% higher than the tyrant's.
This is where durability comes in. A tyrant has a 3+ save thanks to the deathcheater big name (auto-pick unless one knows they will be up against heavy MW spam) and keeps all of his offense up unil losing his last wound. An irongut unit that takes 4 damage loses a big chunk of their damage output and, notably, cannot be healed. A tyrant with 4 damage on him both fights at 100% and can still be healed from one of the numerous healing effects the allegiance offers. Further, each of those wounds healed is worth more because the enemy must get past a 3+ save instead of a 4+. The tyant also has a single 50mm base, a smaller footprint than 3x 40mm base of the ironguts that makes it more difficult for the enemy to get a bunch of models into melee range while making it easier for him to get in range of a specific target and to get cover.
Still, at the end of the day the tyrant costs more. Why? Because he is a hero. Being a hero means he has access to the effectiveness multiplication of artifacts and command traits as well as being able to use command abilities--his own, the generic ones, and potentially one from the sub faction. Ironguts can't do that. However these benefits have diminishing returns; you only get one command trait and a few artifacts while command abilities still require CP to use. Ultimately this means that a tyrant and a unit of ironguts will generally outperform what two tyrants or two units of ironguts would achieve, which is really how things should be in a properly designed army.
*There is only one friendly shooting phase per round compared to two combat phases, but shooting has range & utility while a given unit frequently does not end up fighting in both combat phases, which serves to even out the relative values.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/21 01:27:44
Can you give and example of such a list? I thought it would have to many drops. Also, the ironblaster is not so good, and only 24" range. Do you run leadbelchers in the list?
Niiai wrote: Can you give and example of such a list? I thought it would have to many drops. Also, the ironblaster is not so good, and only 24" range. Do you run leadbelchers in the list?
Dont worry too much about drops. Yeah, you'll lose out to someone optimising for low drop numbers, but that's always a risk anyway.
Bare in mind this is not a tournament list, this is a "strong casual" list I would use in my local shop for pickup games.
24" is loads in Sigmar. Also they can move and fire without penalty with very good speed, so their threat range is huge. Obviously the Tyrant needs to keep for the Rack and command ability, but he can run if he needs to.
I was listening to some of Doom & Darknes walkthrough of the battletomes. (There varius videoes of it.) In one of them this Irish person said he combined those lists with the bridge endless spell. Because leadbelchers do not count as mooving, and then you just move them with the bridhe and shoot at 18".
Niiai wrote: I was listening to some of Doom & Darknes walkthrough of the battletomes. (There varius videoes of it.) In one of them this Irish person said he combined those lists with the bridge endless spell. Because leadbelchers do not count as mooving, and then you just move them with the bridhe and shoot at 18".
The bridge is very nice. Depending on matchup, it will sometimes be a bit unnecessary though (if they're a full melee army, they're coming to you anyway and it will not take long for even a slow army to get within18"!).
I'm not totally sold on it being worth the points given that and also how it might just not go off. But if you expect to face another shooty army who will castle in the corner, that could be pretty useful.
Well it seems like there are many fun ways to play Ogors. I found this list on Bell of lost souls was undefeated last weak. (Mind you, it is not nessaserraly a good list as luck in matchups and dices can be big factor. Still, a funn list.)
Spoiler:
The Unbeatable List: This is the anonymized, abridged army list that won the largest event in the past week we have data for provided by Best Coast Pairings:
Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes – Shyish – Boulderhead
LEADERS Frostlord on Stonehorn General Command Trait: Lord of Beasts Artefact: Ethereal Amulet Mount Trait: Black Clatterhorn
Huskard on Stonehorn Blood Vulture Artefact: Brand of the Svard Mount Trait: Frosthoof Bull
Icebrow Hunter Artefact: Kattanak Browplate Slaughtermaster Lore of Gutmagic: Molten Entrails
UNITS
8 x Frost Sabres
2 x Frost Sabres
2 x Mournfang Pack
2 x Mournfang Pack Stonehorn Beastriders ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN/ BATTALIONS Skal Eurlbad — TOTAL: 2000/2000
Wait, with the Coronavirus going on how big would a tournament in the last week have been? I would bet that was a three-round local tournament, which says little because how something performs depends as much on local meta as what is actually good.
For it to be relevant we would need to be seeing a trend of that/similar lists doing well across multiple events, or at something quite large (which as mentioned before, won't have happened in the past week).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/23 20:54:36
