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Champions of Ruin - doctrine...maybe?

AWESOME!

Champions of Ruin, hmm very interesting...

Seems interesting but apparently they aren't changing the crappy traits, which is what *really* needed to happen. Still, that was a rumor so we will have to wait and see.

Disappointed the legions don't get any extra soldiers... something other than berzerkers and kharn for the WE would've been nice (and all the other legions)

Champions of Ruin is probably just the title for the lore chapter describing some of the legions.

Looks like (based on table of contents) only loyalists get the ability to upgrade characters?

Wayniac wrote:
Seems interesting but apparently they aren't changing the crappy traits, which is what *really* needed to happen. Still, that was a rumor so we will have to wait and see.

Article says this:

including all the shiny, new Legion-specific rules for all you traitors out there

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 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
Looks like (based on table of contents) only loyalists get the ability to upgrade characters?

What are you referencing?

TarkinLarson wrote:
Disappointed the legions don't get any extra soldiers... something other than berzerkers and kharn for the WE would've been nice (and all the other legions)

Champions of Ruin is probably just the title for the lore chapter describing some of the legions.

Mmm, compared to the listings for the Astartes factions, I'm *not* seeing any datasheets listed, or any change in points costs... It's not really a good first impression for me.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Seems interesting but apparently they aren't changing the crappy traits, which is what *really* needed to happen. Still, that was a rumor so we will have to wait and see.

Article says this:

including all the shiny, new Legion-specific rules for all you traitors out there

The article can say whatever it wants. I really hope they improve them, just know that the rumor about what was in the book said it wasn't changed. I can't imagine they would STILL keep those lame traits but this is GW. Let's hope it really is "shiny, new Legion-specific rules" but of course that doesn't necessarily mean the actual trait. If it was new Warlord traits, relics and stratagems that would also constitute new rules... especially since Black Legion is absent from the list due to being in Vigilus Ablaze and they didn't get their Legion trait changed at all.

HAH! GK are dead....

Crispy78 wrote:

TarkinLarson wrote:
Disappointed the legions don't get any extra soldiers... something other than berzerkers and kharn for the WE would've been nice (and all the other legions)

Champions of Ruin is probably just the title for the lore chapter describing some of the legions.

Mmm, compared to the listings for the Astartes factions, I'm *not* seeing any datasheets listed, or any change in points costs... It's not really a good first impression for me.

Aye.
Well then, time to stop the speculation of 2w cultmarines beeing good or not.
Shame.

Wayniac wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Seems interesting but apparently they aren't changing the crappy traits, which is what *really* needed to happen. Still, that was a rumor so we will have to wait and see.

Article says this:

including all the shiny, new Legion-specific rules for all you traitors out there

The article can say whatever it wants. I really hope they improve them, just know that the rumor about what was in the book said it wasn't changed. I can't imagine they would STILL keep those lame traits but this is GW. Let's hope it really is "shiny, new Legion-specific rules" but of course that doesn't necessarily mean the actual trait. If it was new Warlord traits, relics and stratagems that would also constitute new rules... especially since Black Legion is absent from the list due to being in Vigilus Ablaze and they didn't get their Legion trait changed at all.

Yea I'm just giving the words used - I can't say whether or not it will turn out useful or not.


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Not Online!!! wrote:

Crispy78 wrote:

TarkinLarson wrote:
Disappointed the legions don't get any extra soldiers... something other than berzerkers and kharn for the WE would've been nice (and all the other legions)

Champions of Ruin is probably just the title for the lore chapter describing some of the legions.

Mmm, compared to the listings for the Astartes factions, I'm *not* seeing any datasheets listed, or any change in points costs... It's not really a good first impression for me.

Aye.
Well then, time to stop the speculation of 2w cultmarines beeing good or not.
Shame.

That was a CA rumor.

Wow, Eldar really did get shafted in their book purely based off the contents.

New Daemon weapons are cool and all... But Melee is the worst way to kill something in 8th "point and shoot" edition and even then randumb of on a roll of a 1 your Daemon rebels, hurts you and then you can't do anything is not something I miss at all from my 3.5 edition Chaos Codex.

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
New Daemon weapons are cool and all... But Melee is the worst way to kill something in 8th "point and shoot" edition and even then randumb of on a roll of a 1 your Daemon rebels, hurts you and then you can't do anything is not something I miss at all from my 3.5 edition Chaos Codex.

There used to be ranged daemon weapons. At least we have CP rerolls now. The sample one looks pretty great considering a DP can take it. It kicks the Hellforged down to D2, but up to AP5 from AP2 and instead of S:User it will be minimum of S+2, which is S9.

(Now they just need to make a Khorne DP more worth it)

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Champions of Ruin - doctrine...maybe?

I wonder if this is a way to get more personality out of individual models, either the HQs or Champions within the squads. I can't see Chaos being doctrinal, they are Chaos after all!

Yoyoyo wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Champions of Ruin - doctrine...maybe?

I wonder if this is a way to get more personality out of individual models, either the HQs or Champions within the squads. I can't see Chaos being doctrinal, they are Chaos after all!

WB, AL, IW would all disagree.

 Daedalus81 wrote:



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 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
Looks like (based on table of contents) only loyalists get the ability to upgrade characters?

What are you referencing?

Et cetera, there are a couple others.

Well Marines have not had a books in days....

Did not expect non BT to get rules in the book. They are going to be for more marines right, because BT aren't known for their master librarians.

Karol wrote:
Did not expect non BT to get rules in the book. They are going to be for more marines right, because BT aren't known for their master librarians.

The article says these are for all codex: space marines but that there will be a lot of stuff for BT in addition to the more generic bonuses.

Karol wrote:
Did not expect non BT to get rules in the book. They are going to be for more marines right, because BT aren't known for their master librarians.

According to rumours all those upgraded versions of different HQ models will be available to every C:SM player. I would not get my hopes high for divergent chapters (DA, BA, SW, GK).

Yea, I think they're just throwing BT players a bone after the suffering they've endured over the years. There were rumors of a stratagem to "level 2" psykers for all factions so maybe we'll see that.

Whatever, I'm glad to get upgrade options that seem to include primaris versions based on the text in the stratagem. *edited out error*

a_typical_hero wrote:

Karol wrote:
Did not expect non BT to get rules in the book. They are going to be for more marines right, because BT aren't known for their master librarians.

According to rumours all those upgraded versions of different HQ models will be available to every C:SM player. I would not get my hopes high for divergent chapters (DA, BA, SW, GK).

Well, I stand corrected if true. That's just mean. Seems likely to be a lot of CP spend anyway, so, meh.

For what it is worth, on the Warhammer Community page they write "If your army uses the rules from Codex: Space Marines – especially Black Templars – or hails from one of the Traitor Legions from Codex: Chaos Space Marines, Faith & Fury is the Psychic Awakening book for you!"

Don't know how much attention the writer put into wording.

Edit: Since it was already rumour leaked that Blood Angels would get their own spotlight in another book, I would assume that they will get their own version of these rules there. Imagine the outcry if the rules would be for all Marines and not replicated again in the BA book. "I have to spend 30€ for 10 pages of rules yadda yadda"

a_typical_hero wrote:
For what it is worth, on the Warhammer Community page they write "If your army uses the rules from Codex: Space Marines – especially Black Templars – or hails from one of the Traitor Legions from Codex: Chaos Space Marines, Faith & Fury is the Psychic Awakening book for you!"

Don't know how much attention the writer put into wording.

Edit: Since it was already rumour leaked that Blood Angels would get their own spotlight in another book, I would assume that they will get their own version of these rules there. Imagine the outcry if the rules would be for all Marines and not replicated again in the BA book. "I have to spend 30€ for 10 pages of rules yadda yadda"

I think you're right. I'm sure some would disagree but it seems like they do want parity among the special chapters and the standard codex. It takes a long time to achieve that their way, though.

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:

a_typical_hero wrote:
For what it is worth, on the Warhammer Community page they write "If your army uses the rules from Codex: Space Marines – especially Black Templars – or hails from one of the Traitor Legions from Codex: Chaos Space Marines, Faith & Fury is the Psychic Awakening book for you!"

Don't know how much attention the writer put into wording.

Edit: Since it was already rumour leaked that Blood Angels would get their own spotlight in another book, I would assume that they will get their own version of these rules there. Imagine the outcry if the rules would be for all Marines and not replicated again in the BA book. "I have to spend 30€ for 10 pages of rules yadda yadda"

I think you're right. I'm sure some would disagree but it seems like they do want parity among the special chapters and the standard codex. It takes a long time to achieve that their way, though.

Only the way that they do it - it would take about a A4 download but lets clog up all the campaign books with just Marine rules instead

TheAvengingKnee wrote:

Karol wrote:
Did not expect non BT to get rules in the book. They are going to be for more marines right, because BT aren't known for their master librarians.

The article says these are for all codex: space marines but that there will be a lot of stuff for BT in addition to the more generic bonuses.

Still rather suprising, in its marine part, not suprised for the non codex space marine 2.0 stuff.
Why didn't they just put the options in the 2.0 space marine codex, or the csm rules in the csm 2.0 codex? I would get the rules update if they were for some ancient codex like necron or DG. but both of those forces just got books. That is a lot of stuff to buy, codex, supplement, this book and then CA in december. To a degree am happy I don't have to buy all of that.

I think that i'm starting to get the bigger picture here.

GW Issue #1: "Apart from Aeldari, not enough players are interested in non-SM factions, so any publication that does not feature them is economically a bad idea"

GW Issue #2: "The combined population of all non-SM non-Aeldari players is significant, so you must throw a bone in their direction once in a while or they will feel neglected"

GW Solution " Let's put a bit of SM content in everything, so that we strike a decent profit while creating content for minor factions"

Yeah, that's it! GW learned that the final solution to problems is to soup!

Can we please stick to the topic of daemon weapons?

There are quite enough complaints going around here. We get it. Can they at least be kept on topic?