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 Just Tony wrote:

 WaveyRaven wrote:
The Old World changed so much between 1st and 8th editions. When GW say they're going back to the Old World, when exactly do they mean?

For a lot of people, it's not just the rank and file rules and non-trademarkable names of WHFB that set it apart from AoS. It's also the art and lore of the edition they grew up with.

I started in 3rd edition with an Undead army. If we return to the Old World, it'll probably be the version after Undead was split into Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings. Already, I'm out. This Old World is not my Old World.

My Old World was a time before competitive balance was a consideration, before child-friendly designs and Orcs in power armour. GW won't go back to that time, so I just hope they make something new and interesting rather than a re-heated 6th edition to fight off Kings of War or whoever.

I always felt the Lahmians should have been able to run a mix of Khemri and Vampire Counts. Would have kept a fluffy way to let the older players have their mixed army.

Wait, wasn't there a cairns list or something in 6th that still had mummies and the like?


At any rate, I'm not opposed to something new as long as it's intuitive and balanced. Interesting doesn't... heh... interest me, honestly, as it infers neither good nor bad and could easily be either. High damage volume stupidity and bufftastic Magic: the Warhammer type aura play would also send me right out.

Vampire Armies often have the living, be they loyal to their vampire lords, in love with their Vampire mistress etc

Von Carsteins in particular should have a selection of Empire troops, especially in some eras. Some Tomb Kings units for lahmians and the old rule for "Swains" - Strigori living for Strigoir vamps etc, Monsters for Necrarchs etc

My prediction is...
Same scale as oldhammer, but new ranges of models across the board with unique rules, I suspect they'll allow you to use the old ranges but will do everything they can to phase these out and force you to buy new stuff. For example they'll have no pics of old models in any promotional material and rules will favour the new stuff.
But at this stage it's anybody's guess and although I'd be surprised and disappointed, I wouldn't entirely rule out a scale change.

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
It's not about a slight bit of scale creep, the question is whether old models will be compatible with the new game.

Of course they will, much the same way first edition Beakies are still valid Marine models.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
It's not about a slight bit of scale creep, the question is whether old models will be compatible with the new game.

Of course they will, much the same way first edition Beakies are still valid Marine models.

Not if they design them with different weapons and armour, then they won't look compatible and will only work in a counts as capacity.

This is all very good news. I was very tempted to start en empire army just before AoS hit. I loved the old world lore, but quite a few of the minature kits were aged. If they release the old world again with new and updated minis I'm all in. I really want updated minis, but minis that are clearly recognizable as belonging in the setting.

Hellebore wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
It's not about a slight bit of scale creep, the question is whether old models will be compatible with the new game.

Of course they will, much the same way first edition Beakies are still valid Marine models.

Not if they design them with different weapons and armour, then they won't look compatible and will only work in a counts as capacity.

There is a limit to what they can do about that though.
The old Empire infantry came with swords, spears, pikes, Zweihanders, bows, crossbows or muskets. What other weapon options could they possibly give them that would still fit the setting?

Isn't AoS something like 5 years old - so in 3 years that's 8 years since the last time they sold any Old World stuff as Old World. That's probably more than a decade in terms of how old the models were (remembering many are still sold under AoS).

10 years is a long time and GW is at the forefront of casting. Even if they kept the weapons, unit types and poses the same, the designs, detail and features would be lightyears ahead of what they were.


Plus lets not forget GW isn't likely just going for the old market; but a fresh one. They clearly believe that there's value in the game beyond just delivering a product for those who already have 10K points of whatever army they love.



I think bending over backwards to envision a game in a different scale, with totally different armies, with totally different lore period set on square bases. GW could do all that, but honestly if they changed absolutely everything it would be foolish for them to market it as Old World. Same scale, same themes, similar armies, similar lore )if set earlier) etc... There's a wealth for them to choose from just sticking to the old concepts and ideas.



Again consider how many loyal old time fans still use only beakies for their spacemarines. Many might have them, but they still buy and update their army with modern sculpts and options. Wtih GW having made building and painting part of the hobby; even if you've got all the army you "need" there's still a lto of hobby in collecting models on top.

I don't think opening with Tilea vs Kislev and spending the next 10 years releasing humans with different hat feathers is any more likely than 10mm Lizardmen vs Bretonnians. For all this talk of bringing back the Old World and what it stood for there sure is a lot of sensless grognardism here.

If they use the opportunity to do a whole new range of 32mm Lizardmen for both systems, then great.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I don't think opening with Tilea vs Kislev and spending the next 10 years releasing humans with different hat feathers is any more likely than 10mm Lizardmen vs Bretonnians. For all this talk of bringing back the Old World and what it stood for there sure is a lot of sensless grognardism here.

If they use the opportunity to do a whole new range of 32mm Lizardmen for both systems, then great.

Personally I reckon plain ol' dweeby, fragile and fleshy humaoids, in large and organised numbers will be what differentiates a re-incarnated Old World against the backdrop of Age of Sigmar and it's hordes of roided, muscles on michellin men, demi god gorillas.

A tabletop featuring some updated Brettonians facing off against Empire would look very different on the tabletop to anything in AoS right now and would be a great way for GW to show off their latest plastic swirly gak, you know the stuff... intricate banners, horse braiding, velvety hats with feathery bits juxtaposed against large, masonry throwing siege weaponry adorned with lots of skulls, just not a fortress of skulls amount of skulls. Maybe.

I would buy so much stuff if.they did start out with Tilea vs. Kislev. its would be a dream come true!

Tilea marches on Kislev - Kislev marches on Tilea - meeting in the middle, they duke it out inside the Empire, whose populace is screwed as usual

That being said, I seriously hope they make an effort of distinguishing Old World from AoS by keeping things on the Low Fantasy side of things. Greater Daemons, Dragons and Hill Giants should be the strict peak of big models.

I really can't imagine this being as big as some people are hoping. On one hand I'm betting we'll see rules to cover most of the old goodies, but I don't think we can assume that means everything immediately. Its easy to imagine they will hold back on anything they intend to release new models for. Specialist games' level of support of its other games is largely limited by their manufacturing capacity... but even if the new facility doubles Specialist Game's ability to produce plastics, you're looking at 6 to 12 new kits in the first year, and 4 to 8 each year after... the larger number assuming they double their capacity while still continuing to support their other specialist games. It might sound like a lot, but its amounts to revisiting one army a year for the better part of the next decade.

I guess on some level a saving grace is that some of the old models are still produced for AoS, but who knows what the state of any old tooling might be? -With as tight as GW has been on warehousing and manufacturing space its hard to imagine they'd preserve all of that old tooling. Lets also be honest, the hope of many is that certain factions and subfaction that didn't have support in the last edition of fantasy would get it now, but they're probably going to start by first supporting all the same big factions that already had lots of support. And just like GW has done in the past with fantasy, and still do with 40k, AoS, and Necromunda... support begets sales begets support, and they'll trap themselves in a cycle where their investor demand will be "those Empire models you lead with sold well do more rather than..." some faction that actually needs support.

Have they confirmed it's 28mm? Because my instincts tell me this will be 15mm or even the long-cancelled 6mm game. HOARDS of troops on the table.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Have they confirmed it's 28mm? Because my instincts tell me this will be 15mm or even the long-cancelled 6mm game. HOARDS of troops on the table.

What 6mm game? Don't think GW ever released 6mm fantasy themed game. Was there one rumoured/confirmed rumour but got nixed?

tneva82 wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Have they confirmed it's 28mm? Because my instincts tell me this will be 15mm or even the long-cancelled 6mm game. HOARDS of troops on the table.

What 6mm game? Don't think GW ever released 6mm fantasy themed game. Was there one rumoured/confirmed rumour but got nixed?

Warmaster - it was out for a good long time but never really became big and then it vanished like most of the other specialist games. Though from what I recall it lasted loner than Epic 40K which I think lasted half a year or so before it up and died.



I can't see GW making it Warmaster. The whole 5-15mm model market is pretty much a dead duck for sci-fi/fantasy. It mostly seems to only hold on in a big way with historicals. Even then many of the companies are still one-man side-job bands. I'm not saying GW couldn't make it work, but its a niche of a specialist market. If they were to make another 6mm fantasy game I'd wager it would

1) Come AFTER a rebirth and successful sales of Epic - which considering AT hasn't even got any nonImperial models yet likely means its years and years off

2) Be for their main product line - so Age of Sigmar - which actually would work really well and better than warmaster because GW has already set the ground works for there being titan sized monsters and beasties and giants in the setting. So a Warmaster scale would let you fight out not just the opposing army but huge titans and godbeasts.

Warmaster wasn't 6mm. It was 10mm. And who knows. It could be a rebirth of warmaster. If it was I'd be 1000% down and in for that, which means that the odds are its most definitely not that lmao since anything I'd really love GW tends to go the exact opposite way.

My gut feeling is that it'll be AOS scale, it will be able to cross genres for sales, and its ruleset will be modern design streamline and super board gamey abstract only with ranks and files with wizards summoning massive amount of free points onto the table and mortal wounds still existing that you want to spam as many of.

 Overread wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Have they confirmed it's 28mm? Because my instincts tell me this will be 15mm or even the long-cancelled 6mm game. HOARDS of troops on the table.

What 6mm game? Don't think GW ever released 6mm fantasy themed game. Was there one rumoured/confirmed rumour but got nixed?

Warmaster - it was out for a good long time but never really became big and then it vanished like most of the other specialist games. Though from what I recall it lasted loner than Epic 40K which I think lasted half a year or so before it up and died.

Ah. That was double scale. More about 12mm. Players were mighty pissed off when all the 10mm fantasy models were noticably smaller than WM models.

In the announcement this was billed as AoS' version of the HH series and they showed a 28mm scale square base.

The odds of any other scale than the standard modern GW 28mm seem astronomically small.

Initial release of Empire civil war seems likely to me, with shared standard troops and then specialists for the different provinces.

Yeah. I see the factions being very very very small and focused.

The names of the Emperors and Empress don't seem to fit any of the known eras characters? Do any of them match anyone in Total War: Warhammer 11 as i only have the first one?

I am assuming it will be prior to the End Times but they could do the Storm of Chaos ending and a whole new age?

I thought no it had been discussed that it didn’t exactly match any game timeline or the time of the 3/4 Emperors exactly.

If there has been eleven Total Wars then I’ve missed something
I assume you mean Total War 2 though,

But no, I don’t think there’s quite the exact link.
It’s hard to scroll back to find information through a lot of vitriol and/or arguments sometimes..

tneva82 wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Have they confirmed it's 28mm? Because my instincts tell me this will be 15mm or even the long-cancelled 6mm game. HOARDS of troops on the table.

What 6mm game? Don't think GW ever released 6mm fantasy themed game. Was there one rumoured/confirmed rumour but got nixed?

Yeah in the early 90s they mentioned several times they were doing an Epic Fantasy game ~6mm. When Warmaster came out they said they'd experimented with 6mm but even dragons were too tiny to look impressive so they upsized to 10mm or whatever WM was.

Apologies for the threadomancy but...Kislev makes a comeback!

One new unit that’s in the early stages of development is set in the Ice Court – the seat of the ruling Tsar or Tsarina. Known as the Ice Guard, they’re an elite fighting formation of warrior women, equally skilled with bow and blade. But where they differ significantly from the other Kislevite units we’ve seen in the past is that they’re able to channel the elemental magic of their realm in a similar manner to their Ice Queen – the most powerful practitioner of this unique form of sorcery. Here are some awesome pieces of concept art for the Ice Guard, courtesy of Forge World’s Mark Bedford.

Kislev? And as in Kislev models of all things?


Oh boy, someone at GW has to have one shroom too many at this point.

I wonder how long it takes for the moaning to start about the bows being unrealistic and the arrows having ice heads? (both i really like by the way)

Ho boy. So it's really happening. Empire civil war. Human subfactions with different hat feathers that will only sell to 7 hypergrognards.

Well, that's a nice surprise. And the sketches seem to draw heavily from the central-asia inspiration which is doubly cool.

Looks very Blizzardesque?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Ho boy. So it's really happening. Empire civil war. Human subfactions with different hat feathers that will only sell to 7 hypergrognards.

Kislev isn’t part of The Empire?

I am ok with Kislev coming back.